Whats your opinion - Lazy or not ready.

Glenn is about to turn 3 & was have been trying to TT him over the last couple of weeks. He will use the toilet IF we take him. But he just doesn't get the whole go before you go part! We have a fully carpetted house so little accidents all over the place isn't ideal (I shampoo'd the carpets just last week)

The thing is, Evan was 3 when it all clicked for him & I know its going to be different for each child but Everything seems to be there for Glenn to know how it works but he just doesn't seem to care or be interested in not wetting himself. He bought him his own super duper Bob the builder undies to make it exciting about wearing undies & he knows wee's & poo's go in the toilet. But he just sucha happy go lucky type of kid that he doesn't care (well thats how it seems) if he is running around in wet clothes.
So we bought new undies (I think pull ups are a waste of time & money as they are still nappies so he will still wet them)
We have a sticker reward system in place, but again he doesn't really care about that. he enjoys the fuss of getting the sticker at the time but doesn't actually look forward to it IFYKWIM.
We just bought a timer so it gets set every hour & when it buzz's its time to try to go for a wee.

Its so hard to keep on his back about it with 2 other kids so I know part of the problem is me being ontop of it & remembering to remind him but I don't see the point in trying if I am having to tell him to go. He often makes a fuss about it & gets upset about having to go because he is palying. This is where I see the problem, he is too busy (or maybe just too lazy) to stop playing & go to the loo.
We didn't have this problem with Evan, like I said it just clicked & I don't remember more then maybe 5 accidents. But Glenn is wetting himself every day if not more often.

So what do you think, is he just not ready yet or is he just too "busy". Do yo think I should just hold off a bit before trying to push the issue?
I said to DH that I think we should hold off as its becoming to much work to clean the carpet every day! Especially with Isla on the floor, she will be crawling through wet patches all the time! So the to me the choice is, Undies & no play or nappies & try again in a few months.
I am just so over nappies! Isla is in cloth now but Glenn doesn't like them, he actively protests cloth.

We should wait a bit shouldn't we....

Fj, you have it right hun. Just wait, in the meantime don't give up. Meaning don't stop taking him to the loo, just don't stress on it. I have been lucky with Teh, she has pretty much TTed herself.

They do say that girls are generally more quicker than boys with it though. Noah was quite lazt with TT and only now at 5 is he even wiping his own bum!!

Goodluck hun and patience is a virtue ;)

i hear you FIONAJILL!

my eldest was fully toilet trained at the age of 3. but my darling little Cody is 4 in december and i am still struggling. what amazes me is that on his daycare day he NEVER wets his pants. he has a ladder and seat plus a potty at home. but he will hold on to the very last second! and only goes if i am sitting on the floor by him.

i think you are correct in saying every child is different. my boy is just too involved in what he is doing to take 'time out' for a wee (or whatever)

until last week he actually was running off and putting on a nappy to do number 2's! so now the nappies have been hidden.

pull ups are a waste of time. Glenn is still young. just gently persist with lots of encouragement when he does go toilet. as i have learnt, no two children are the same and by the time they start school, most will all walk, talk and be toilet trained. every little one is different.

good luck..

I agree with what the other gals have said. Gentle persistance without going over the top.
Good luck!

FionaJill,
I would say he is neither "lazy" nor "not ready". I have TTd 3 boys of my own, all at about age 2- 2 1/2, and taught parenting classes. This is always a popular subject. If he can go when you take him, then he is 95% there, because that means he is capable of control. Lots of kids plateau at this stage. At first going in the toilet is fun and interesting, but then they realize that it is something that is going to interrupt their activities for the rest of their life! It's not going away!

There is a point in keeping it up, even if you have to remind him to go. If you persist, he will probably click over in 3-4 weeks, probably even less. I would suggest not using the buzzer, unless you want to use it yourself, to remind yourself to remind him. It will only annoy him. Try asking at transition times: when he gets up. Before breakfast. After. Before getting dressed. Before going outside. Obviously, don't ask after he gets dressed if he has just gone before dressing :) Just stick with it. I know it's not easy.....but that is probably the most important part.

Try to think about it this way, every child requires different assistance from you at different times. Some breastfeed well, others need lots of help and persistence. Some need to be encouraged to play, others have to be dragged from the park when it's time to go. Some struggle in school and need you to go over spelling words, others complete assignments at school and never bring anything home. So, this is just one way that this child needs you now. As you said, your first was different and probably your daughter will be different yet again!

Glenn is probably too young to be motivated by a sticker system. They work better with children at early school age (5-6).
Does he have to go in the loo? Does he know how to go standing up? Are you OK with him going outside on the grass? Most boys think it is absolutely hilarious to wee all over flowers, shrubs, off the edge of the deck, or whatever. My 3rd is 2 and 1/2, and his preferred place to wee is in the back yard. My husband also gets him to go on the tyre before getting in the car. (I wasn't super-keen on this at first, but honestly most goes in the road under the car!)

Yes, it's harder when they don't care about being wet. Whilst most kids don't like it, there are a few who could not care less (even if they are pooey). My oldest was like that.

About the carpet: a nurse friend suggested filling a spray bottle with 50% white vinegar, 50% rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol--from the chemist). When he wets the floor, wipe the carpet with a quite wet cloth, then use the spray and wipe it in. The vinegar will take care of the odour. The alcohol will help the wetness evaporate rapidly. This works like a charm. I've had a bottle around the house for the best part of 12 years (wonderful for vomit too....). Once he is fairly reliable, then have a good shampooing done.
Don't lose heart! Moral suppport availabe here anytime. :D

Castle, thank you for a very informative post.
The buzzer is more for me to remember to remind him. Like I said its hard to keep track of it with other children.
I will come back & read more & reply to each post but we are just about to walk out the door for the boys combines birthday party.

Watching with interest here...having the exact same problem.

Almost three and so NOT interested it isn't even funny anymore. Doesn't care if she wees her pants. Knows what the toilet is for and will happily sit on it - then pee on the floor as soon as I take her off.

Driving me mental. Everyone is really on my back about it now (ie. grandparents, family daycare mum) which is making me VERY tense :(

Just know you're NOT alone fionajill ;)

Caro, should work for pet urine too...I've never tried it. I've refused to get anything beyond fish because I think I'd end up doing all the care!!
Flea, if she won't go at all in the toilet, then I'd suggest temporarily trying a reward system. A couple of Smarties, a handful of a cereal that she likes, a special mouthful, when she goes in the toilet. The reason a food reward is good here, is that they need something very immediate and very satisfying, but ALSO something that is quickly over. It doesn't have to be a lolly.
Also, again temporarily, a special toy to use or book to look at...just for the toilet. You need to encourage her to spend a little time sitting there. If she is sitting on it comfortably and relaxes, the position itself will encourage her pelvic floor muscles to open up and she'll release some urine.
Another idea...if the grandparents are really concerned, would they like to take her for a week and train her? If it's that important to them, let them try...after all, they have done it before :) I'm not being sarcastic, not completely anyway! Seriously, if granny is really keen to do it, why not? At your daughter's age, she should be able to learn very quickly if someone is there to remind her all the time, and if it's stressing you then let your mum or MIL have a go.

One thing to remember is that learning to use the toilet is just that...a LEARNED behaviour. Some mums think that it's a natural behaviour, like crawling or walking, and that therefore when the child is ready, he'll just do it. NO. We know, unfortunately from examples of abused and abandoned children, that unless it's taught in some way, it doesn't happen. Yes, they do have to be neurologically ready for it...but the neurological processes that are required, are actually completed quite a bit earlier than most people realize (usually by 18 months). I would respectfully suggest, just for future planning if it applies, that you start a bit younger...by age 2. The children are usually more interested and open at that age, less inclined to be busy and to say "no" to whatever it is you're suggesting! And if it seems impossible at that point, you can put it off for a bit and try again later, without feeling like you're pressed to do it by a certain time.
Fionajill, another thing some people try with boys, is to scatter a few Cheerios or Honey-Os (some small cereal that floats, these ones are rings) in the toilet water, and then get your son to "aim" at them. This is great for winter or wet days, or if you're in an apartment or other place where you can't have the fun of weeing outside!

Girls, after 4 kids and teaching many parents, I think I'd say this is not something to stress about...if it's driving you mental, use nappies and think about it next week or next month. If you work, I'd suggest waiting till you have a block of time off.
LOL, my youngest is a girl...I will be interested to see if there is any toilet training difference with her. I'm so used to doing it with boys! She just turned one and HATES being pooey. The other day my dh was home with her, didn't see her for a few minutes, and went looking. She was sitting near all the changing things, and gave him a great big grin when he came over--he said that, "Where have you been, Dad? Let's get on with it!" was the message she was trying to give!

i am so glad i have a place like this forum to ask questions, it's great to read everyone's responses

i have a ten month old, but i like hearing about what is ahead of us from mums of older toddlers.

really good topic FJ, cos every kid is going to go thru that stage, best of luck

I am DEFINITELY of the opinion that TTing is a summertime activity. Warm enough to play outside and it not be terrible if a kid is wet for 10 mins or has no pants on for a bit and plenty of time for nappy/pants off time to feel what is going on.

I've never had to TT though, so what do i know!? LOL.

My mother imparted the following wisdom on the subject:
a) don't get into stresses about what goes into or comes out of a child. Eventually they will eat what you offer them and poop and wee where they're supposed to, and
b) it's easier with the later ones.

Her theory was that TTing the 1st kid is hard because although you have the time and energy, you've not the experience or the past successes. She TTed all of us by never shutting the bathroom door when she was in there (to the point that i refused to use a potty because i KNEW no-one pooped in a pot on the livingroom floor) and by creating a culture of grown-upness with the older ones, which the younger ones are, inevitably, DESPERATE to join. This translated into little treats for my brother (extra one on one with one of my parents, trips to places where "nappy-kids can't go" - certain parks or museums) which i couldn't join in on until i was a big kid. Basically she hit the pause button in other areas until i mastered it - in the same whay that i didn't take Smee to play on the grass in the park until she could walk i guess, (though obviously that was more a safety thing) my mum wouldn't take me to the special west park museum (which turned out to be one room with a stuffed panda gone white with age, a mummified hand, and a few roman ewars in it - lol) because you could only go if you were a big kid and big kids wore pants (or ate their dinner, whatever it was that week). The magic of this was that it was always out of the house (while stayed in it with the other parent) so even if they had a rotten time, i wasn't there to see it, the impression i got was that it was all very mysterious and wonderful...so alluring! LOL. I'm not sure if it's a way that'd work for everyone but i'm raising smee like i was, so quite strictly but also "with responsibilities come rights" so if you do x, you get to do y. So maybe you could try praising Evan's efforts (and explain to him why if he thinks mum's suddenly gone mad and thinks HE'S just learning) so Glenn overhears, and even throwing in the odd special-trip-out treat for him so Glenn sees that it would benefit him to TT...?

On thing i did wonder though FJ, you say he hates cloth...is that because of the bulk or because they feel more revolting when wet than either sposies or pants? If it's the latter i'd "forget" to buy sposies and tell him it's cloth only. He'll hate it. What a great motivation!

bx

Hoob, he doesn't like the bulk. He actually stayed reasonably dry inthem but gets quite upset about wearing them. But we are going ok. Still lots of accidents but he actually asked to go for a wee the other day which we all got very excited about. Then yesterday he had a few accidents & Dh put a napppy on him as we were heading out. Glenn got rather upset inthe car saying he did a wee. So he is becoming awear of it, FINALLY lol. But must lucky DH put a nappy on him because its a bugger cleaning the car if he wee's on that!

Fj, what having a pack of pull ups or similar just for situations like that one with the car trip? This is what I've done. We almost never use them, but DS calls them "nappy undies" and they are an acceptable alternative to him...
Sounds like everything is going well, especially if he asked to do a wee the other day!!
xx

Yeah when we run out I will be buying some peciacl undies Like I had for Evan (pull ups). I used them for Evan while he was still night TTing so Glenn is aware of what Special undies are.

I have also started to make him repeat things to me so I ask "Where do wees go?" And he sometimes says Nappy so when he does I will say No wees go in the toilet. Where do wees go? Then he will say Toilet. I have been doing thing for alot of things like this. Glenn is a bit naughty with hitting/pushing/kicking Isla so I say "Are yo allowed to hit Isla?" and if he says Yes then I tell him that no its not ok to hit Isla and ask again & he says No. So I don't get cranky with him but ask him & then praise him when he answers right even if I did have to correct him a few times before hand. He is getting it. He is a bit of a bully at preschool too not in a nasty way just to be, but if he has something taken off him by another kid or wants something he wil just cry & or push to get what he wants. There is a girl who I know for sure is where he has picked this behaviou up from. But where she isn't pulle dup on it all (I suspect she is a princess at home & gets away with everything because the way she talks to adults is shocking & very disrespectful). GLenn is pulled up on it & I have tried to explain to him that its not nice & he needs to use his words to get waht he wants.

I agree with using the cloth, even if it's just becaue of the bulk. I heard of one mum whos' bub hated nappies (all sorts) so much that at 10 months she made a bargain with him that after changing a wet nappy, he could go 15 mins without one on at all. Kid soon learned to pee as soon as the new nappy was put on, so it was then removed for 15 mins. This was easy to transition to the toilet as he then didn't need any nappies put on at all - which he loved. totally toilet trained at 15 months, from memory, including nights. This was all sparked off by hating having a nappy on - so see if you can't strike a bargain with him like this! Also try a pingpong ball in teh loo - it won't flush adn he can practice aiming at it. Another thing that will help is moving a potty into the lounge so playing isn't as interrupted.

Wow Fully TT by 15 months!
I have to ask though, how the hell to you bargin with a 10 month old. Isla is 10 months & no way she would understand that she can have it off after every wee.

It is so reassuring to read this thread and to see we aren't alone! DD turns 3 in January and I tried the first time just after she turned 2, we've given it three good goes but no success yet. In the last few months we've just been sitting her on the toilet at transition times but if she says she doesn't want to, we don't force her.

She'll sit on the toilet till the cows come home but won't actually do anything on it.

I'm starting maternity leave next week and am planning to really focus on it then. I'm hoping the warmer weather will help.

I must admit to feeling like a bit of a loser when other kids her age are fully TTd and have been for months.

I used a little insentive to train DS. He wanted a fire engine in the shop. It stayed there for about a year (he spotted it when he was around 2) and finally one day he said i want that fire engine inthe shop. "well" I said, "you have to do all your poos in the toilet". By the end of the week he decided for himself that he wanted the fire engine enough to do his poos on the toilet.
For wees I let him run around in the nude....boys think it is great watching themselves do wees, and they get to have a play too ;)

FJ, I have the same problem with my Kat, sometimes she will go to potty or tell em she wants to, but she doesn't get the "release and pee" part. She'll sit there for 30 mins (and yes, I've sat there that long with her after she's not gone all afternoon or morning) and nothing. She'll say to me "sinished" but she's done nothing and as soon as nappy is back on (it feels like, usually within 30mins) she's pee'd or pooped. I don't know whether she's just not ready or if she's lazy or what?! Today I was told do away with the potty as she may not quite get how potty = toilet that mummy and daddy use. I am just so confused and new at all this. I've been trying off and on for a year now and only had a handful of successes where she's done a wizz (tiny little dribble) in the potty (with much excitement and cheers and telling her how good she is etc). She just doesn't seem interested (sorry if I am taking over the thread FJ....I'm just so at my wits end right now!...hormones, what can u do hey?!).

Actually, fully trained by 15 months isn't that unusual. Back 1 generation ago, almost every child was toilet trained by 2 years, reliably, and in the 50's the normal age for complete reliability was 18 months, with many many kids less than that. I was semi-toilet trained at 11 months, but had a regression due to an anal tear on the potty - then took 6 months to get over that. My sister fully TT'd at 17 months. my aunt never had a nappy on after 11 months (and my grandma was quite houseproud!) there are lots of examples. BUT disposables have drastically reduced the incentive for kids to use potty - thus I have recommended to lots of friends to change to cloth at 9 months or so so they start to get the feel. also, there's lots less incentive for parents using sposies!

Apparently starting younger, rather than waiting is the key. (heard recently that a study from scandinavia demonstrated that kids were better off introduced to the potty much earlier than is currently normal. Wish I knew where a copy of that study was.)

as for bargaining with a 10 month old, I guess you woudl tell them every time you put the nappy on, plus let them learn from experience that after a change they are naked. They certainly can learn much before we think they can but I guess it takes lots of repetition - much like for a dog. a dog has the reasoning capacity of roughly a 2 year old, and even a puppy can learn what a 1 year old can learn - pups certainly learn how their actions effect what happens to them very easily. I guess one can only try!

MMM I don't think at that age thats actually being toilet trained. I think thats more like what people who do EC. I think it would be reading the signs etc.

We have never really used a potty, our toilet seat has 2 seats on it, so it has a smaller child seat that can be put down over the lge one.

wel maybe a potty might be a good idea then?? perhaps less intimidating? Also, in a potty she can hear the noise a wee makes more clearly than in the loo. They are cheap - $6 at target - not too much to risk if she never wants to use it.

as for age, I have no idea - but if it was a normal thing at 18 months then I dare say it was properly trained - mums back then often had huge families and I doubt they would have been looking at too many signs if the kids had no way of making their needs very clear. I guess it all depends how you define "toilet trained" hey!

I define it as not using nappies or having any accidents. But that might still mean I do all the reminding and taking ot the loo. Others might not call it trained until the child takes themselves every time without any reminding.

Yeah, i don't think it's TT if i'm still having to remind. I consider TT to be able to know they need to go, and can go, in the right place. I know they'll sometimes need help with wiping/clothes etc. but i reckon her saying "i need a wee" and then doing a wee is TT whereas me glancing at the clock and taking her off to the loo isn't. Just my opinion, i guess it's different for everyone.

I was TT at 11 months my mother told me, but when i quizzed my dad i was, in fact, put on the loo every hour-90 minutes from then until i was 2 and a half. If i did that with Smee she'd be "TT" as she's pretty reliable as to when she goes if her routine is regular. I've read so many places now that physiologically they don't get enough warning to be anything but be occasionally lucky until they're 20 months or so, and i'm not making any concerted efforts before then.

I just got a potty at the weekend. Just now she gets applause if she sits on it, and if she's having nappy-off time i ask "want to do a weewee in the potty?" and she'll sit but hasn't peed yet. I guess if she does i'll give big praise and if she doesn't - no worries.

Bx

We have a potty, actually we have 2 but never had much luck with them so just don't bother. I think they do see it as strange because Mum & dad don't pee in a potty.

yeah, that could happen. maybe recruit a friend with a slightly more tt'd toddler to come and demonstrate???

as for no warning before 20 months - I think newborns are born with good awareness but it fades with nappy usage as the child has no reason to continue to strengthen these muscles or listen to their own body as theri toilet is always on their bottoms. I heard that after 2 years of nappying a toddler's bowel sphincter is less strong than at birth, so it takes a while to re=establish control.

I know that my dd cries a very specific cry, with the "Ah" syllable in it a lot when she needs to wee - at first it was too late by the time I got there but now I can hear the cry, finish my last mouthful or type the last sentence, pick her up, take off clothes, cover and nappy (if she's wearing that much) then hold her over potty and she'll go in 10 or so seconds. Her father and grandma have occasionally recognised this "potty call" too, with enough warning. She's 3 months. we're more than occasionally lucky too - she does about 15 wees a day, 10 or more in potty. all poos in potty for 5 days of week, about 2 dirty nappies weekly - just small bits that have escaped while she's just waking or something.

by the way, I NEVER used to believe any of this - until I tried it myself and found I must have been completely wrong. my doctor said that when he went to china with his 8month old son they couldn't buy disposables and were looked at like they'd flipped their lid for not having their kid already nearly toilet trained. they had to stop using nappies that day - kid started toilet training straight away and was, like most chinese kids, reliable by 18 months.

Yeah thats ECing.

ETA - Glenn has his older brother to see using the toilet. See the problem isn't knowing how to use the toilet, its realising he needs to use it.
Today he poo'd in his pants but actually said when I told him he had undies on "No, got nappy on". So I let that one slide as he did think he was wearing a nappy.

Phew!...glad i found this thread!

I've started TTing my 2yo recently, for the second time. I tried a few months back, cos she seemed ready i.e taking lots of interest in when other people go to the toilet, recognising wee's and poos etc...but we didn't have much luck back then, so i figured she wasn't ready. Now with a new baby in the house, i'm finding having 2 kids in nappies is a lot of work, so i decided to try again. Plus she has a hideous nappy rash that is driving her (and us) bonkers at the moment, so i thought great opportunity for her to run around without anything on, or in her undies.

She seems to be really anxious about letting go though. She'll happily sit and "play" with the potty, but when it comes to actually letting a wee out....it's close to a traumatic event!!! She screams and dances around, hopping from one foot to the other, saying "i don't want to" and holding on to herself. We've tried many things, but it doesn't seem to be working. She did finally do a wee yesterday, and i praised her lots and when we told daddy last night he was very proud etc etc. I thought today we might go better, seeing as though she go such a good, positive response yesterday, but no....we're back to the screaming and carry-on. :doh:

My eldest daughter basically TTed herself at 18mths....one day she just decided to come sit next to me and do wee's....by 2yo she was TTed during the night as well and 100% nappy-free. So now i think "what's going on" with Broni...and was thinking is she lazy or just not ready...so i'm glad i cam upon this thread. I will perservere and will take on board some of the suggestions/advice/comments written. I know it's early days....but thank heavens we have a tiled house! lol

Glenn still hasn't really improved much. I tried pull ups but after wearing 1 he broke out in a contact allergy from something in them. I dunno if I want to try another brand or not. We are moving soon & will have floorboards so wont be as big a deal. But just today he has had 2 accidents. He just doesn't seem to register when he needs to do a wee. All trips to the toilet are from us taking him.
He is getting too big for nappies though so it better click soon.

I so hear you girls. I am having trouble with Kat still. She knows when she's done one. She tells me when she's "stinky" or when Jess is. But she still cannot release and i can't seem to help her know how to. I've tried the wee'ing on the loo (standing up so she can see me. I got cheered and clapped but no closer to her going). I've done the every 30 mins thing and she still manages to hold on till she's off and in knickers before doing it. She hates the feeling but she still wets her pants and not in the potty/toilet. Should I give up for a while? Jess on the other hand enjoys sitting on the potty. However she doesn't understand how to wee either. *sigh* Knowing my luck I will end up with 3 in nappies! AUGH!

I would say Jess isn't ready yet & Kat on the other hand probably is at the same point I am with Glenn so no help am I ! LOL

hrm. there needs to be a toilet training school, like sleep school where you can send/take ur toddler for a week or two and they Teach us and the kids how to TT sucessfully hehehe

definitely Kerrie - i'd pay money to go to one! Oscar was at the same stage as Glenn in that he would go on the loo/potty if i woul dput him on it but would never tell me and if i asked woul dsay no - only to wee/poo 10 seconds later. I gave up and went back to nappies a few months back as i really didn't have the energy. We talk about it now and he tells me wees and poos should go in potty or toilet but just wont/doesn't seem able to tell me before hand.... so still in nappies and i'm waiting for a sign off him that he is more willing/able.
Good luck girls and any more hints/tips would be great - thanks

Julie x

katkins - will she wee on the potty WHILE she is wearing her undies? it'd be a start.

then you could cut a hole in it. i'd try to tt both girls at once. jessica I see is almost 2. definitely not too early. doing them together could create some healthy kind of competition! (BUT, so that you don't go insane - I wouldn't take jessica out of nappies yet - just encourage her to use the potty as often as possible - eventually she will do most of them in there and then you can drop the nappies- but that could be weeks/months away. if you don't stress about it, it won't matter how long it takes - starting earlier.)

Thank for the advice girls, I do do that anyway. I sit them both on potty at same time. They both just seem stuck on the releasing part. They will tell me when they HAVE done one. But even if I can see they need to go and sit them on the potty (jess last week was dancing due to doing poo, we sat her on and she did a tiny bit, but wouldn't do any more till we put her nappy on), they won't do anything till they have their nappies on again or knickers on. Pretty much as soon as we take them off the potty they seem to go. I'm not going to stress. It'd just be nice to have two nappy less kids when number 3 comes along....

Thanks for the encouragement girls! Looks like there are a lot of us with almost 3 year olds still struggling with TT. The grandparents are coming tomorrow for a week I'm hoping Nathaniel will want to show off to them and we can use that as a bit of leverage????? Wishful thinking but I think that everything is worth a try!

I have a 3 year old DD who will merrily sit on the potty but nothing ever happens there. Nothing ever. She then stands up and 3 minutes later pees on the floor. I feel like I have tried everything. I suppose the only thing left is to go diaperless for a while and see what happens. Too bad I have so much carpet.