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... and posted with the upmost respect for those who cannot breastfeed:
Certainly makes you look at it in a different light doesn't it?:
"Formula feeding is the longest lasting uncontrolled experiment lacking informed consent in the history of medicine." - Frank Oski, MD, retired editor, Journal of Pediatrics
I think that was in the ABA magazine a while back? It is an interesting perspective isn't it! Never mind testing on animals - let's just go straight to babies!
Of course it IS important to consider those who have been unable to bf, but I think everyone would agree that babies health should be put before commercial interests. I would suggest that it would have made more sense for health departments or medical professionals to decide what should be fed to babies unable to receive bm -therefore bm alternatives should be "designed" by specialist medical scientists being paid by government or a medical body, not a multinational food corporation, and the manufacturing process should be far more regulated.
too true! Infant formula is their SOLE nutrition.. no other fluids or solids or anything.. should be much more care taken with it.:
And yep - very interesting perspective Kelly. Bit frightening!
Your not in it alone Linz....i to bottle feed but at the end of the day... its the best we can offer our little girls :)
I bottle fed Maddy & she's perfect in every way, so dont panic..
My other 2 have been breastfed & are JUST AS PERFECT!
Lindsay, as a FF'er myself and as someone who was FF as a baby, I can see the point that was being made without being made to feel bad, because the statement is true - it is still an experiment.
The way I see it, is you have to use at the time what is available to you and if ATM that means infant formula then so be it. In times past the alternatives to BM were dreadful - babies were either put straight onto cow or goats milk or other options that included watering down sweetened condensed milk. In the future one can only hope that there is no need for Formula as there are milk banks aplenty and women who can't/choose not to BF themselves can still give their children BM.
But the fact remains that we simply cannot predict if there will be repercussions on our children, on ourselves even if we were FF, for quite some time.
I find it amusing as a farmer that people are absolutely terrified of using genetically modified fruit and vegetables or other GM products as they are worried about what it will do to people over time yet it is completely and perfectly acceptable to use artificial products in babies without a second thought as to what could happen in 50-60yrs time kwim?
The quote does NOT mean formula is not tested in the lab. It means that there is no scientific follow-up. Yes, there are old anecdotal studies, but for formula to stop being a "trial" you need:
A sample population in a great number
Children exposed to the exact same environments - that includes parenting, number of feeds, solids introduced at the same time, illnesses and vaccinations given at the same time. And, if you want a bigger study, it will include schooling too.
Ideally, twin studies.
I can't really see this happening, so formula is still experimental - there is no true evidence one way or the other. That's the scientific perspective at any rate, which is very different to the mummy perspective!
can I ask...why does formula feeding concern those who choose infant-led breast feedng? I would have thought you guys wouldn't use formula therefore it would not be an issue?
Just a thought from someone who couldn't breastfeed for medical reasons and sees formula as a perfectly adequate alternative.
It was just raised as a 'food for thought' statement.
salsa, to say that is just as good as saying why are formula feeders in an infant led feeding forum... have you read the guidelines on posting in the gentle forums?
I didn't want to post it in the general forum as I knew it would upset people there. And that wasn't my intention. I did not make the comment, a retired editor from the journal of paediatrics did. Please don't shoot the messenger. Just trying to have an intelligent discussion here. Thats what forums are for.
why the need for capital letters? I merely asked a simple question.
And no, it does not explain it as it is neither supportive or educational which you say is the reason most don't breastfeed. It is just one persons perspective.
I only noticed forum after reading the post as I used the "today's posts" button:
to say that is just as good as saying why are formula feeders in an infant led feeding forum...
Salsa, I choose infant led weaning and breastfeeding, but DS does have the odd bottle, so it is of interest to me. It's actually a true scientific perspective - not just one person's - and something I have been saying for a while.
It is also educational as many people think formula milk has been properly trialled and they are giving their baby the best in formula. That is not the case.
Also, as Kelly said, she didn't want this to turninto an attack!
What do you mean capital letters?
So you think people should only post if they have something educational or supportive to offer? That would be very boring if there weren't topics or opinions for discussion or debate... never mind opinion from a paediatrics organisation which is very relevant.
I welcome healthy debate, and encourage mothers to do so. People post about all sorts of things in the BellyBelly forums and I see nothing wrong with my post, so see no need to remove it. Attacks get threads shut down, so can we please end it here.
I mean in the reply from Caro to me she used capital letters.
I merely asked why breast feeders find the topic interesting, Caro replied that it was to educate and support and all I said was I didn't think it was either. I am not emotional about the topic, I am purely interested why people find it interesting. I don't see anything wrong with the post I just wonder why to which Ryn answered as she also uses formula, which is a perfectly valid reason I hadn't have thought of, thus why I asked the question.
I did not ask you to remove your post nor did I attack anyone, I asked what I thought was a simple question that no-one can answer without getting defensive.
that's cool, I thought you were yelling :)
I don't find what you wrote offensive, I just don't agree with you which is just life and we are all adults
But to say all of that is still missing the point of the quote that it is an experiment "lacking informed consent" as no one can say when or even if there will be health issues arrising from using the products in years to come. It's not simply a matter of education and teaching women how to be successful at BF, but that the product has the possible potential to cause harm that may not show itself for many years if there are to be any problems kwim?
You wouldn't sign up for a drugs trial on a new and untested drug without knowing what the possible side effects are would you?
For me, i chose infant-led breastfeeding and then my body decided that it was a no-go and i had to use formula, at first as well and then instead of BFing. It'd be lovely if reality only reflected our expectations or desires but sadly, for me at least, it didn't.
Given that i had to use formula, i find it useful to be aware of these things just in case. Never say never, sort of thing. I have to say that given what i now know from BB though i probably couldn't have saved my milk supply (metabolic problems) there are a lot more things i'd have tried before i gave up if i'd known about them. I actually think the main reason breastfeeding fails, after lack of education, is lack of HELP. If i'd had someone who would cook, clean, help out a bit and let me take my baby to bed and rest and get my supply up i might have been able to go on mixing and matching instead of having to go fully FF.
LOL Caro - i use caps for emphasis too - i used to use italics but my left ctrl button got torn off by smee.... I can never get into the habit of using the one on the right. ;)
Bx
I think one of the reasons many infant led breastfeeders find the topic of artifical infant milk interesting is because most of us keen to make breastfeeding the norm. Also to educate new & expecting mothers of the risks of assosiated with artifical infant milk. Kelly's OP is just another risk. Part of making a informed choice of how to feed our baby is knowing all the facts. The good and the bad.
Breastfeeding isn't best, its normal. Artificial infant milk, is just that aritfical. It will never be as good as whats normal. But it has its place but as caro has said too many parents think its just as good as normal and don't know or ignore the risks.
Bet speaking of infant led feeding, Isla is calling LOL.
Interesting quote. I think I may have said this in an older thread. My husband almost died from a disease/illness that is normally caused by life long constipation, as an adult he has not been, but we do not know about what happened in his childhood, other than we do know he was formula fed. A part of me wonders what part formula had to play in the way his intestines now work. Unfortunately we will never know, the medical professionals do not seem to ask how you were fed as a baby, so I doubt they will ever come up with a connection of between some illnesses and formula use. They ask everything else, smoking, drinking, drug use and these are often listed as factors, so I think the way you were fed as a child should also be added to that list.
My daughter has had some formula, so as a parent I want to know all I can about what formula does. If there is a link between formula and my husbands illness along with a genetic predisposition, then I know with the next bubs to do my best to ensure that bubs never has formula.
Well said FJ!: