My friend at work told me today that her daycare wanted her to bring disposables only and not cloth nappies.. Does anyone know if they can do this or you have the right to choose what kind of nappies you want to provide?
thanks!
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My friend at work told me today that her daycare wanted her to bring disposables only and not cloth nappies.. Does anyone know if they can do this or you have the right to choose what kind of nappies you want to provide?
thanks!
Prama, I don't know for sure, but I imagine they do have the right. I'd be concerned about the quality of the centre if they weren't prepared to accept cloth though. Our centre were quite happy for the boys to wear MCN. The director said technically they are not allowed to rinse them though (I'm guessing it's an Occupational Health and Safety issue), so maybe terry flats would be a problem, although I told them that was fine not to rinse them and I have noticed that they mostly do anyway.
I agree, I think they do have the right to refuse but a good centre would be able to accomodate cloth. You might have to pay more in fees though as storing/laundering/and time spent managing them would affect the centre's bottom line (excuse the pun). If they accepted cloth they would legally have to be prepared for every child using cloth. I know this wouldn't be the case but they would have to demonstrate to community services that it could be hygenically managed. I use cloth nappies and I know the extra work that is created rinsing them properly. I wonder where the centre would store the rinsed nappies? You couldn't put them back in the child's bag like you do when you rinse a wet pair of undies. Would each child need a bucket? Imagine a room full of 30 buckets. Would that smell?
I'll all for fabric nappies but having worked in a child care centre myself I can understand the logistics of allowing cloth to be tricky. Not impossible, but tricky.
Hmmm. that's gives me a lot more to think about. I mean if a child has an allergy to disposables, would they have to accept cloth nappies. I will get in touch with the day care centres we are on wait list and see what they say.
I wouldnt expect them to rinse them, but maybe put them in a bag or something that can be sealed..
I wonder if council run centres would be more accommodating... I will ring them and find out.
Thanks so much for your feedback!
I asked at ours and they said no due to hygiene reasons.
Ours are ok with it. You just bring a nappy bucket and they put them in to soak so then you can just take them home and wash them.
Not sure how putting a pooey cloth nappy in a bag is less hygienic than putting a pooey disposable in the bin??
I haven't needed day care for DS, but I'd be most put out if they made me pay for disposables as well as paying for their fees!
We spent a weekend down in Canberra a few weeks ago, and I found the best way to counter the smell was to put the pooey nappies in nappy sacks and then into either a wetbag or a bucket. They survived the whole weekend and you'd never know there were pooey nappies in there hehe.
MCN are fabulous for 'drypailing' which means just put them in a bucket until you have a load of nappies/washing to be done. Obviously any solid waste would be removed before they are drypailed. There is no 'soaking' needed.
I'm would like to think the centre would be happy to put a used nappy inside a plastic bag until the end of the day.
Some daycares actually use cloth nappies and have a laundering service. Daycares that provide nappies tend to be more expensive than those that don't but that could be an option.
I think from a community services POV pooey nappies in bags pose more of a health risk than pooey nappies in a bin that is removed from the centre several times a day. The staff would have to rinse solids, it couldn't be left lying around in bags. Imagine if a child got into the bag. I know that when my children soil a nappy it's fine sealed in a bag until we get home but multiply that by 30. The average centre is just not geared up for that... and having changed many nappies in a child care environment I know that it has to be done fast because there are always time pressures... It was hard enough finding time to empty the bins let alone rinse each nappy as well which, if pooey can add a few minutes to each change. A good centre would have a laundry service like a hospital or at least more staff to help. It depends how many children are in cloth but I know that I have to change my clothies more frequently than sposies... not always the case but if parents supply their own clothies not all would supply super absorbant Bum Genius (my most absorbant).
In an ideal world all centres would accomodate cloth... I agree, make your needs known so things can change for the better.
Using cloth is really important to me. We are just about to start daycare so I don’t know how exactly we’ll go, I hope everything will be fine.
The carers were shocked and less than enthusiastic when I said the c word (“cloth”) but when I showed them the pockets and AIOs they were really impressed and keen to try them.
I will be providing Pockets and AIOs and wetbag/s.
I expect the carers to put the wet nappies in a wetbag.
I will be providing disposable/flushable liners in every nappy so if there is a poo I expect them to put it in the toilet, then the nappy in the wetbag.
I don’t expect them to rinse the nappies.
I’m happy to deal with them all when I get home at the end of the day
It is illegal to dispose of poo in the bin so legally everyone is required to scrape sposies in the same way as cloth.
I can’t see how MCN will take any more time than sposies and there will be easier/better poo in the sewage system compliance with MCN.
Sure, I take the point that if everyone used MCN it might take a little more time. But what a great world that would be!
I hope everyone understands that I'm just playing devil's advocate :) I would LOVE the world to use primarily cloth nappies too and as a childcare worker I would easily accommodate this but ATM many centres have logistical problems.
One thing i am a bit confused about is how to extract the poo from the nappy of a breast fed baby. They are not all nice compact patties that come away cleanly when held over the toilet. The poo seeps into the nappy. Even my 14 month old still makes the odd very moist pooey nappy. The only way to get it out is to rinse. I know that technically it is illegal to place poo in a bin... but what do you do when it has seeped into the disposable? You don't really have any choice. This is another reason why clothies are superior.... they save our water table from all these human waste pollutants when placed in landfill :(
I agree Bath - DS still does 'wet' poos (probably due to getting colostrum out of me these days too).. I know I certainly wouldn't be trying to scrape it off a sposie - blerk!! But with cloth - no choice - gotta squirt it into the loo. Have just bought some flushable liners actually (didn't arrive in time for Canberra trip unfortunately) which apparently are supposed to keep them feeling dry as well. There's no real reason that you couldn't use flushable liners in a sposie if you're prone to sloppy ones! Altho, newborn like you said is so runny it would soak through into the nappy anyway.
well, I rang two centres, once council and one privately run. The council one said no one had ever asked them that before so she will find out and let me know in a couple of days.
The other one, invited me to their orientation night tomorrow and will let me know then. I also rang the NCAC (National Childcare Accreditation Council) and they said it's up to each centre and what policy and facilities they have in place.
The daycare centre I have Ryan booked for for January/Feb when I work charge $10 extra than their sister daycare centre around the corner and provide all nappies and food for the week. Neither accept cloth but for $10pw I think I can manage lol
Just curious, but wouldn't they have had to deal with cloth in the past when sposies weren't so prevalent? And if so whouldn't the situation for the centre be better now with MCN? I'm think when my (now teenage) nephew was a baby, he went to the original ABC centre in terry flats. Must remember to ask my sister next time I talk to her.
For whoever asked, I supply a wetbag for the soiled/dirty nappies to go into. The wet ones go in no problem, and I am happy for the pooey ones to too and deal with them at home (I asked them just to tip whatever solids bit there were in the toilet). But I find that they mostly rinse the pooey ones for me anyway, and then usually put them in plastic bags inside the wet bag. For the first couple weeks I was still waiting on my wet bags to arrive and I sent along platic bags which they used happily.
I can understand that this could be a little bit more work than sposies, but realisitcally unless the centre was somewhere really unusual, you wouldn't have all mums using MCN - just look at the proportion of MCN users in the population. Since my boys started using MCN, there has been one new little girl in the nursery also using MCN. The feedback from the centre has been extremely popular. The director and each of the staff looking after Jack and Tom have all commented on how much they love the nappies I provide. I mostly provide AIO for ease of use but they are equally happy for fitteds and covers.
I don't think there would be any need for the workers at the centre to rinse the pooey ones out at all.
Several times I've had long days out and just rolled the nappy up like a sposie and put it into a wet bag. When I've come home I've done the poo removal, rinse and into the dry bucket or machine if I had a full load worth.
If you provide them with a zip up wet bag that they can just pop into a cupboard under the sink they can just put the dirty nappy into it. I can't see the difference between that and rolling up a sposie and putting it in the bin.
My cousin uses MCN for her daughter and the creche were fine about using them one they saw them. I think that educating the workers would be a big part of it.
The problem as I see it from my experience in using creche is the high staff turnover or holiday relievers and having to discuss what to do repeatedly.
I remember you saying that about nappies being thrown out Shannon. I started off being very careful about counting them, but now I can see that they are very diligent with the nappies and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't happen at our centre. It's too much to count them when I have to pick up two boys, the nappies and their backpacks.
We use family day care & we send a wet bag with her. Our family day care lady actually said to me "oh I see you are using cloth, what would you like me to do with them?" So I started using them with her as well.
wow
working in long day care for over 10 years i am very surprised at the responces i have heard in this thread!!
where i work we 'allow' cloth nappies but will not rince them, although some staff do clean it out a bit for you, although i good idea that i have seen is a 'j' cloth that can be thrown away in the middle so they can put that with the disposiable.
We do suply all nappies at no extra cost so that is why most parents go for that but i have had several children over the years that will only have cloth!!and whats the big deal anyway, isnt the customer always right. gosh im still in shock in face i feel it is discrimination !!!
Gl with how you go
Just wanted to add my experiences... my DD has been in child care for over a year (three days a week) and in cloth for most of that time. We use pockets (ready stuffed) and cloth wipes (chemical ones give her a rash). The staff know to put the poo in the toilet and roll up the nappy and wipes and put in the wet bag which they hang up out of reach of the children. No one has complained about it at all and I am not charged extra (a ridiculous idea if you ask me!). In fact, when I first discussed cloth with them they were incredibly encouraging! :) They are sick of seeing all the waste every day and when I showed them how easy they were to use they were all keen to try them out, and I've since sold a few small ones to a staff member who was pregnant.
Due to staff changes, or temporary staff coming in, we have "lost" two nappies - one purple Haute pocket and one Bumware (which was white so it may have looked similar to a disposable) - which I didn't notice until after wash day. But I figure with the money I've saved by not taking disposables into the centre, it's a small price to pay.
In regards to hygiene, I think that's a really poor excuse for a centre to say "no" to cloth. Disposing solid waste in a bin is worse than the above method with cloth - the waste goes in the toilet where it's supposed to go! Left in a bin, it is creating a nice little environment for bacteria and viruses. Changing nappies is the same - sometimes you get poo on your hands with sposies or cloth use, so you just have to wash your hands afterwards. Storing the dirty nappies is also easy and remember it's the parents who empty the wet bags or nappy buckets, not the staff.
If I came across a centre that said no to cloth, I'd be going somewhere else.
Malakili i think that when terry flats and other cloth nappies were more prevalent, in the 70's and early 80's, far less women went to work when bubs was still in nappies (the maternity leave and employment laws were different) and people generally used grandparents/relatives or small-scale childminders when they DID work, rather than larger daycare facilities. It's only in the last 5-10 years that it has become equally normal for women to return to work as to stay at home.
I have a friend who uses cloths at daycare, and she just asks them to roll the centre inserts and put them into a ziplock bag (which she provides) and either re-use the outer wrap or bag it up (if wet/dirty) with the inserts. All staff wear plastic gloves to change nappies anyway and none of them object in the least. She keeps a lock-top bucket in her carboot to put the ziplock bags in between the centre and home (so sh can stop off at the suprmarket without having to get back into a humming car!) and has no problems with it. Some staff rinse off poo, some don't. She doesn't mind either way - she re-rinses and nappysans them all before she puts them in the machine anyway.
Bx
I went to the Day Care Orientation last night (boy, can they get over the top) and asked about cloth nappies. Initially, they said they couldn't due to hygiene issues. I could tell that they wanted my business so very careful when they said it. I then told them, that I don't expect them to clean the nappy but just put in a wetbag just like you would put it in a bin. They then seemed to agree to it.
I think a lot of centres just need to be educated a bit more about cloth nappies and how to handle them. Like Babyjoy said, they don't even have worry about emptying the bin.
Good work Prama! :) I agree, a little education and open-mindedness goes a long way. You'd think in these days of environmental education in the classroom (and even in the littlies rooms) that they could really use this as a wonderful teaching opportunity! How much fun would the little toddlers have putting MCNs on their life-like dolls! Where i worked we sometimes gave newborn sized 'sposies for the 2/3 yo's to put on the dolls. They LOVED it! They could be teaching the next generation. Also I think if centres gave some thought to how their bathrooms/changerooms are set up then clothies could be more easily dealt with. Where i worked there was a large sink right beside the change table but the toilets were across the room. If a toilet with a spray hose attachment could be placed in a more convenient place right beside the change table then life would be much easier with clothies.
ETA: I'm thinking how it would work at change time with clothies as opposed to sposies. Where i worked we did a big nappy change session just before lunch time. Of course if a child's nappy wasn't needing a change we didn't do them but most did. So we had about 8 or so nappies to in about half an hour before we had to do lunches. One staff member did this whilst the other helped the children wash their hands and heat the lunches and clear the tables for lunch. The staff member on nappy duty took each child, one at a time into the change room... quickly did the nappy and popped the spossie in the bin, re-dressed the child then returned the child into the room and when back and washed their hands before getting the next child (we didn't wear gloves because a new set of gloves would be needed per child). If rinsing out a pooey nappy had to be added to this it would take about 1/2 minutes extra per child (including rolling up and putting in a wet bag)... now I would do this because i believe in clothies but it would have an impact on the centre's routine. So change might come slowly but hopefully it will come.
i take nixon to an abc daycare where they happily use mcn , or even terrys on him . .they even have a litttle squirt to use ...
he is the only child in the entire center with cloth ...
i just supply the nappies and wet bag ...
My daughter is also the only one in cloth at her centre and a good friend of mine recently switched to cloth and her daughter is also the only one in cloth at her centre. I think if there was one bub in cloth at every day care centre in Australia... change may start to happen faster because people would notice and staff would have a better understanding of MCN.
Someone posted in another thread that they had read on an MCN site that someone had researched this and found that the centre is obliged to use whatever nappies you choose to provide. So there you go, maybe we were all wrong on this!!
Interesting Manta! :) I agree, centres should use whatever people choose to supply and they should structure facilities and staffing around it if it's a problem. I think this is the beginning of change, each generation is more environmentally aware. I've certainly told my DD that clothies are the way to go. The argument that they waste water doesn't wash with me at all... sposies use MORE water in their manufacture than it takes to clean each clothie. Making plastic and the other man made materials in sposies is highly water dependent but few studies mention this :( do they think we are stupid? Do they think that we believe sposies come from the supermarket like children think milk comes from the dairy cabinet?
Well that makes sense to me... if your child has bad skin reactions to sposies then the centre would have to accommodate cloth or you would be looking elsewhere for child care.:
I think I must be one of the lucky ones to have staff so open-minded and positive about cloth nappies! :clap:
Me too Babyjoy! They were enthusiastic when I first asked and even more so now they are using them!
I just found this info that could be provided to any centre concerned about being "Green":
*It takes one full cup of crude oil to make the plastic for each “disposable” nappy.
*It takes 4.5 trees to make the pulp used in “disposable” nappies for one baby over 2 1/2 years (ie: 7 million trees a year are felled for UK babies, 1.3 million trees for NZ babies)
*”Disposable” nappies use 3.5 times more energy, 8 times more non-renewable raw materials, 90 times more renewable materials than washable nappies.
*It takes as much energy to produce one throwaway nappy as it does to wash a cloth nappy 200 times.
*”Disposables” produce 2.3 times more waste water (at the production stage) and 60 times more solid waste than washable nappies – one baby in disposables will produce 2 tonnes of solid waste! (my note: I think this include the packaging of disposables as well).
*In a household with one baby, “disposables” will make up 50% of total household waste. Just one single item, “disposables”, make up 6% of total waste in Wellington
(from zerowaste site).