"You need to control cry"

Just a vent, but I can't believe how many people have said this to me the last week - even offering to come round at night to help me deal with it. I don't do CC, I don't believe in CCing, it will not help me or my baby! OK, we're tired, but how will crying help? If I cry myself to sleep I don't feel rested when I wake up, why should DS? Why do I want to teach him that I don't care? I learnt my parents don't care and DS will NEVER learn that. I wish people thought of the consequences of using CCing as a teaching method and I wish people wouldn't keep suggesting it!

Any good comebacks? I'm biting my tounge from "I don't do that, I'm a good mother" because these people are wellmeaning and have used CC as a method, but I'm getting sick of the offers and only having a few people support me (luckily DH is one of them).

Oh yes, and DS isn't naughty for not sleeping. He is a good, intelligent, active boy who finds it hard to shut down. That isn't naughtiness!

Oooh hun - I hear ya. Mum and numerous people think its absolutely terrible that I am feeding Isabelle every 3 hours at night at the moment but keep telling me just to let her cry it out for "30 mins or more and then she won't wake up anymore" Arrrggghhh - ok I would LOVE to cut the feeds but I will not do it by letting her cry..... sorry hijacking - :hug: hun. I just tell them that research shows that it can be damaging to them - get them to read the CC section in Pinky's Sleeping like a Baby, or I tell them that even the sleep schools don't do CC anymore so isn't that saying something! Funny how if you refer to something "expert" they change their tune a bit.
Good luck.

if u really want to get them off your back i would actually say that you tried it and it didnt work. what can they say to that?

also if anyone asks how bubs is sleeping, lie! if you tell them the truth thats when all the advice comes in and well meaning people try to tell u what to do. i found the sooner i shut up, the sooner the advice stopped.

Hey Ryn, your DS sounds like a brat! When was the last time you gave him a good belting? :D

I'm sorry that you are getting inundated with unwanted advice and finding it hard to bite your tongue. If anything helps, there is a whole army of supporters here that think you are doing a great job and maybe we can help to counteract the bad vibes from the rest of the well-meaning but differently-parenting people out there.

Keep doing whatever works for you.

Ryn,

Why are they even bringing it up in the first place? How do they get onto the topic?

My advice would be that prevention is better than cure.

If they ask "how is he sleeping" just say "with his eyes closed" LOL!

If they ask "Is he sleeping through the night" just say "he's doing fine".

End of sleep conversation. Then they won't feel any need to attempt to try and tell you to CC?

Went to my Dr's surgery one day to talk to them about depression, unfortunately I did not get my normal Dr. The Dr I got told me I had to CC, it would solve all my problems and would not refer me to a psychotherapist as I requested. She did CC with her child, so if she does it, it must be all right. Well I wont tell you what I said to her as I don't want to upset fellow BB'ers who have used CC, but she was pretty insulted by my response. I lodged a complaint about her later that day and my normal Dr had me come in to do the referral I wanted. I was absolutely shocked that a health professional would recommend it so off hand for something so serious as depression. I have no idea how CC was meant to stop my husband from working longer hours, how it was going to get him off the computer and stop my MIL from meddling (the main things contributing to my depression). Sorry to hijack, but I know how you feel when all you get is awful advice and not the support that you really need. :hug:

Ryn - I am getting small suggestions (more because I have the same *problem* as Tanstar with feeding every 2-3 hours) and then the usual questions.

Does he sleep through the night - yes, he just wakes to feed when he needs it

Is he a good baby - what is the definition of a good baby (usually refer the point 1 :rolleyes:)

DH is less subtle and says no, he is a turd who wakes his mother every few hours to feed but there is a no refund policy so we can hardly take him back (for those in Aust. refer to the Ikea ad :D) He doesn't really mean it but as he said, what a stupid question to ask ..... it deserves a stupid answer.

My Dad suggested that wearing him to settle at dinner time was a bad habit to get into. My response - if I wait for him to settle I don't get fed until 9pm or I get a cold dinner. I would rather wear him and we are both happy. He acknowledged that was a good point (good Dad!!!!)

In the end people usually well meaning and want you to be rested, well etc etc. A few pre-prepared comments can make them easier to manage :)

I haven't read all the PP so it might have already been suggested but the most accurate response would be:

"according to latest research CC on a regular basis has been proven to have detrimental effects on the developing brain through the release of harmful chemicals associated with stress".

If they would like further reading direct them to The Science Of Parenting. I believe the author is a fellow Englishwoman too :) Brilliant book, highly recommended!

You could respond with "if i tell you to shove that advice will you go away and cry yourself to sleep?" Sorry, no sleep last night :lol:

I was thinking "i wish there was an answer that involved me staying in bed" between 3am and 5am this morning when my little sweetie, who has a cold, was crying and getting me up every 10 minutes. But there wasn't one. I just kept doing it and taking deep breaths so as not to get annoyed and eventually she got to sleep. Little kids need us when they need us, regardless of the hour.

When people ask if she's a "good" baby/child i either so "Yes, she's brilliant" or "no, i'm going to drown her in the bath tonight". You could try, with the CC "no, i don't like it when DH makes me cry on my own for hours" or "No, i don't like making any members of my family cry indefinitely" or "yes, i'll try that, if he's not crying, do i hit him to MAKE him cry so he can sleep?" or the truth - "i cannot see how him crying and me lying listening to him crying will get us more sleep than we have now".

Bx

:lol: I like Lucy's suggested answers!

I have raised 4 children in a co-sleeping, gentle parenting envioronment... My 9 year old hasn't suffered at all from my parenting methods. I feel for you though, I copped all the same stuff when my kids were younger. I always say 'proof is in the pudding' with my lot. I sleep better having babes in bed where they can feed easily, and they thrive on the closeness.

Yay for you! Keep doing it your way :)

How true Bridie! The proof truly is in the pudding! people often do comment how I manage to have such a "co-operative" 4yo when it comes to bedtime. He insists on going to bed as soon after dinner as possible, if not before! And once he is in his bed he rarely gets up... not that it bothers us if he does because it means he needs us! But my point is that he is the product of co-sleeping/non CC. Whereas my DD didn't spend as much time sleeping with us and back then (1994) I didn't know the damage CC can do so just blindly followed the advice of people who suggested CC... and as a result (I think) she was a terribly insecure sleeper that never really settled into her own bed until she was about 5yo.

My 15 month old sleeps with us from when he wakes up naturally in his cot each morning, usually at about 4/5am these days... he is brought in immediately. And I think that he too will eventually feel secure enough to want his own space in his own time. it's all about creating trust isn't it?

Thanks for all the replies.

Usually, if people ask if DS is "good" I reply that he's perfect and that shuts people up. If asked, I usually say he sleeps 8-7 most days, as he does. He just wakes in between, a fact most people don't need to know. I aren't going to lie and say I have done CC because I believe that CC is a form of torture (after all, starving your baby or locking your baby out naked in the snow is torture, why is depriving your child of an emotional need any different?) and there's no way I will ever do that. Doesn't matter that DS is only my first so I don't know about anything, doesn't matter that "everyone" resorts to it, doesn't matter that I have no sleep. I can live with no sleep, DS can't learn how to love without me showing him.

Without letting DS cry, I can pat him back to sleep a lot of the time. Yes, I haven't been able to do that since birth, but I can now do it and we're both happy about it. Without letting DS cry he has slept until about 4am in his own cot a couple of times this last week. I am thrilled for that. DS will sleep without crying it out. I feel awful when I have cried myself to sleep when I wake, so why do I want DS to feel like that?

Sadly, this advice came when I had a breakdown after a week of very broken sleep (a 2 hour stretch was good then!) and I could have just walloped them! I did snap at one friend and felt awful about it, she's an anti-CC person too but told me she thought DS was tired... well, der! Everyone normally thinks that DS sleeps pretty well, despite not going through, as I look so fab and like I'm managing! And I can get him back down within about 5 minutes usually, you can't do that with control crying (for one thing, you're supposed to just listen to the screaming for ten minutes, which is twice as long... a point I may use!).

:) I'm taking the Science of Parenting along on Friday to show a friend about the CCing studies in there, I really hope that will shut up the girl who wants me to CC! I'm constantly having to tell her 3-year-old that DS is playing with that toy and he doesn't need help or her to take it away, or that he's trying to sleep so can she not keep touching him... if the mother doesn't notice that she may not notice this though!

Astrid, you poor love - I have a fab GP, luckily, but my depression is exacerbated by DS, not caused by him. After all, he doesn't go fishing for days at a time, nor does he make nasty comments about my parenting or tell me I'm doing it wrong and he hasn't had a campaign of hate against me for about 20 years. Cure my mother and my husband will want to stay at home more and I will be better when DS doesn't sleep!

Just realised that will sound awful to some CCers - it's not for me, I honestly believe it does harm. Many people feel differently and they are allowed to, but if I choose not to do something then it is because I've thought about it and decided against it, not because I am trying to attack someone else's suggestions and parenting.

this thread has really helped me too rosehip. i'm so tired of people telling me i'm spoiling my son and that he's manipulating me just cos we co-sleep and i never leave him to cry. i wish people would trust that i know ds the best and that i know what i'm doing (even though he's my first) and that i know what works for us. leaving him to cry never ever achieves anything...it just gets us both more upset, so why do people tell me to do this???

Ryn, your second last post is brilliant.

TBH I thought I would do some form of CC with our DD but it is so cruel IMO - I realised this the day she was born. How could I let her cry herself to sleep? If she wants a feed or a cuddle or just me I will hold her all day if she wants! I love holding her to sleep, but do try to encourage her to sleep in her own bed (which she does most of the times). Somtimes I just miss her that I just want to get her out of her cot and cuddle her all night! I haven't read the studies about cc but I can't let her cry it out, nor can I not give her eye contact if I am trying to settle her.
I think you are doing great, what a lucky boy to have such a great mum, like you!
I was PMSL at some of the BB members suggestions... he he

Ditto Julia (we seem to be following each other around threads today!)

CC sounded quite good in theory when I was pregnant. Now that my little cheeky chops is here, it's not for me. I'm v lucky that she's a v good sleeper anyway but just like you, I often miss her and just want to get her out of her cot. The other night she slept from 8pm - 7am straight. Not me, I was up at 4.30am hovering over her cot and accidentally on purpose making a bit of noise hoping she'd wake up so we could play! Ridiculous behaviour, I know.

I got this all of yesterday because we are having some sleeping issues with DS having been sick a lot lately. So I was getting some lavender from the chemist and got the whole kit and kaboodle of 'advice'. I said that I don't think the short-term problem of not sleeping justifies the long term psychological damage of controlled crying.

Of course I understand if others make the choice to do it, especially when you are at your ends limit. We all have a limit in how much we can take after all.

Gracie - OMG at people actually believing a 1 month old can be manipulating! ummmmmm gee they couldnt just feel lonely? Next they will be taking over the world!!!

Honestly, I am so shocked by the number of people who have had CC forcefully recommended to them. My DD does not sleep through the night yet, but no-one has suggested I do CC, everyone knows we co-sleep and she doesn't have a dummy. Not once has anyone I've talked to questioned my parenting decisions.

I think sometimes you need to make people a bit scared of you. Maybe it's one of the good things about being an older mum and having pretty strong opinions about what is and isn't right for us (I'm early childhood trained as well). Obviously there is a difference between a friend or acquaintance gently suggesting something and other people insisting CC is the only way to go, but I can imagine how annoying it must be. At times my MIL has said something that makes it clear she thinks something is a bit strange (extended BF springs to mind) but I just fix her with a gimlet stare and say; "I'll be BF for as long as DD wants to.' End of conversation. She's generally pretty respectful though, and doesn't push the point.

Anyway, stick to your guns. It's really none of anyone elses business, is it.

I feel quite lucky with my Pip - he sleeps relatively well, I don't like him to cry. The only person who thinks I should let him cry more is my DF!

Some crying is "ok" in my book - the whingey cry he's doing right at the moment cause he doesn't want to sleep, but has no choice. The cry while I'm getting his bottle ready .. but these are all non-painful cries that don't last longer than a minute at the most, the cries that he will smile at me through. The CC cry he doesn't smile at me though, and that's what breaks my heart.

Some people ask me if he sleeps through the night - I just reply "I don't expect him to, and when he does, I'm pleasantly suprised". And that seems to keep them all happy.

Rosehip I too have felt the pressure to CC! Honsetly i felt like I was doing the wrong thing by cuddling and loving my DS! We try to not let him cry at all by cuddling feeding etc! DH is a baker and leaves for work in the middle of the night and this is when DS would come into bed with me (DH is a very deep sleeper and I was worried he would roll on DS) Ds slept so well in the bed with me, and I loved the closness we had! People have told me that he wont sleep through, or sleep in his cot cause I have had him in the bed, but as of sunday he is now only waking for 1 feed and sleeping till 5:30-6am and sleeping in his cot!! He very rareley cries! So being a mum and tending to DS needs has paid off for us! I am so proud that I have stuck to my own beliefs and persivered!

Have any of you read Sheila Kitzinger Understanding your crying baby? This book helped me alot and its interesting to read about the CC! It nearly made me sick! The man (yes a man who would have no motherly instinct) invented CC says "A mother should not weaken if the baby cries so much it vomits" OMG why would you let a little baby get so distraught! And believe it does no damage!

This is not supposed to sound like Im saying anyone who uses this technique is a bad mother its just my opinion! I know some girls who use it and they swear by it, but its definately not for me!
Rosehip I too belive it cause long term harm to our bubs!

:

---

"A mother should not weaken if the baby cries so much it vomits" OMG !

---

OMG, there is something out there that has been published that actually says this?? That's so awful!

I find it is most often people who don't have any children that come up with suggestions like CC (well, that seems to be my experience anyway). To deal with it, I just avoid the topic. If someone asks if DD sleeps through the night, I answer "yes" (that's actually true now, but it took several months to get there). I find the best solution if someone whose opinion you don't want asks you about your parenting decisions is to just say something vague and change the topic. Ask the friend/relative/acquaintance, etc something about themselves, act interested in what they have to say, and they will soon forget they were asking about your bub in the first place. :p

I agree, changing the topic of conversation is a good strategy. However if the person asking if my baby sleeps through the night is another mum of a baby I would be honest and say "a few times a week" instead of "yes". I think there is a bit of an unspoken thing going on sometimes where women pretend that their babies are perfect and say things like they sleep through every night out of competitiveness.... all this does is make mums feel bad and compare their own restless babies unfavourably. I think if everyone was more honest then it would become apparent that it is not the norm for babies to sleep through at all! This is why I tend to say "I don't expect my baby to sleep through anyhow, so if he does then it's a bonus!". I think mums need to have realistic expectations of what babies are like.... then the pressure will ease a lot!

I agree Bath. It is horrible when you are having a bad day (week, month etc :rolleyes:) with minimal sleep to be asked the question and given advice about your child's sleeping. What makes it worse is when you feel like you are the only person in your mother's group whose baby is not sleeping through. The reality is most are sleeping for a longer stretch than mine (not hard when he feeds every 2 hours still) but nearly all are waking at least once a night and often more depending on growth and development. To hear that others are also waking at night reassures me that all is well in my world and my child is not the anomaly.

I had to fight DH to not CC :lol: He would say to me, just let her cry a little. I did that once - I put her in her cot (crying, no she was yelling) and came and sit down with DH infront of the TV, stole the remote and put the TV on mute. After about 30 seconds of him having to hear her cry, he told me to get up and go get her - DW 1 - DH 0 :cryinglaugh:
At the moment I am putting her into bed with us when she wakes at 2am or 4am or whenever and I can't get her back to sleep by patting her. I give her a bottle in bed with us and as soon as she is safely in dreamland. I pick her up and put her back in her cot. In the back of my mind I hear ppl telling me that what I am doing is wrong and are "learning" her to get up at that time and get into bed with us and are pick a rod for my own back, BUT those ppl are not in my house at that time of the night, so stuff them. They don't need to look after my kid at night - I do.
I agree with the other girls. Change the subject, don't give out more info than needed and if someone say you must CC, just reply that it's not something you are prepeard to do. If you get pushed, just ignore or say thanks, but no thanks. And in your mind you can drive an 9" nail throught their eyesocket :) :) then they can cry themselves to sleep :) :) *evil*

Nadine they're right about the rod. Once you convince your child that you love it, it's just gonna keep loving you all your life. WHAT a hassle....

Bx

"phew" :rolleyes:
:)

Far more rod-like to have to pat a baby to sleep or listen to him cry rather than feed and co-sleep back down, trust me.

We had an hour of screaming this morning WITH me comforting DS (the fifth tooth is looking even closer), can you imagine if I were to do CC with this little man?

As for the "let them vomit" brigade, a health visitor told my friend that "yes, they do that, it's OK" when she said if she locks him in his room with a childgate he screams until he vomits. Why have a baby if you don't want to love them, or if you want them to vomit?

You know what is MORE disturbing ... that ppl KNOW that they vomit when crying/stressing to much!!!!

How old is her son Ryn? Lots of babies go through a making-themself-sick stage around the start of toddlerhood. DD certainly does it, not in distress, more in curiosity, though she does it to see my reaction and to express anger/frustration too. Letting little babies scream themself sick is SO weird - how does that solve anything...don't want to get up to baby so much at night? Listen to them screaming and then get up and change their sheets instead...don't see much workload reduction there.

Bx

He was about 20 months at the time, he is now 27 months. But that's still crazy advice, to let your child induce vomitting.

Like you Julia and Fionas, I too thought I would do some form of CC when I was pregnant, after all, that's what everyone was telling me they did, so it must be just what you do. The second I laid eyes on my DD however, I knew I never wanted her to feel even a millisecond of pain and was here to do what ever it took to make her feel happy, loved and safe.

My MIL always tells me that when DD wakes in the night, go in with the lights off, quick feed, change her nappy and no talking, picking her up or eye contact. Then leave her and she'll go back to sleep. Although yes I get you might not have a big play session at 3 in the morning, but DD and I can express so much love just by looking at each other, how could I deny her that? I know what it was like to get the cold shoulder / no eye contact growing up, I'd never wish that on my daughter.

Course, I co-sleep so technically am following MIL's advice - no lights are turned on, I don't pick her up and my eyes are shut so no real eye contact heh. Course I don't tell the whole truth when she asks. :p

hehehe Haydies, that's great you're following your MiL's advice :D

Pip lost his voice last week, and it was awful, I couldn't hear him cry. I now know (as does DF) that letting him "cry it out" doesn't work, he just gets more and more upset. I didn't sleep much that week cause I didn't want him to cry! The only time I could hear him was when he started doing the "whooooop" breathing in which is too late for my liking.