DTD and BF - how long am I "safe"?

Mods - please feel free to move - not sure if this is a BF question, a "contraceptives" question or "body after baby" question.

How long can you "rely" on demand BF as a form of contraception? Oliver is 2 weeks old and BF on demand - thankfully only 3-4 times a night (9.30pm sometimes, 11pm, 3am, 6am-ish, etc) but he suckles on and off during the day - I haven't bothered to count but he has little nibbles all the time. I have heard of women getting pg while BF a 3 month old but is there much chance of getting pg with a 3 week old? As much as I want baby #3 I think I would like another 18month gap at least!

I remember a midwife at the hossy saying an Obs told a new Mum that he would guarantee that she would be safe for 6 weeks. I suppose anything could happen after that :)

I don't think it's guaranteed for any length of time.
If you don't want irish twins it might be best to use some sort of contraception.

What are 'irish twins'? Hoping it's not, but sounds a little like a racist slur (Not that it should matter, but I'm of direct Irish extraction and I don't take kindly to 'irish' jokes!)? Otherwise, still curious to know what it is!

Wow, I think you're doing very well considering DTD after only 3 weeks!!

I remember being told by the health nurse that there was no guarantee and you can fall pg again at any time even if bf on demand.

I think irish twins are when you have another child with in a year. Not sure where the name comes from though!

I'll PM you the link to a good article, but here is part of it. I have been not using any other form of contraceptive but using this method (mind you, I have PCOS and endo and am not very fertile I'd imagine)

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Is Breastfeeding an Effective Contraceptive?
Research has shown that breastfeeding suppresses fertility. Yet many women know someone who became pregnant when breastfeeding -- or became pregnant themselves during breastfeeding. Service providers are sometimes reluctant to allow women to rely on breastfeeding for pregnancy protection, and have in certain settings discouraged breastfeeding in favor of initiating a modern method of contraception.

In 1988, a group of scientists met in Bellagio, Italy to define a set of guidelines that a woman could use to predict her return to fertility during breastfeeding. The scientists reviewed data from studies regarding return to fertility and determined that breastfeeding can provide up to 98% effective contraception if three criteria are met:
The mother has not experienced the return of her menstrual periods (bleeding up to the 56th postpartum day is considered part of the postpartum recovery process and is not counted as menstrual bleeding);
The mother is fully or nearly fully breastfeeding; and
The baby is less than six months old.
These guidelines later defined a new method of family planning called the Lactational Amenorrhea Method or LAM. Clinical trials have shown that LAM is at least as effective as the Bellagio scientists predicted it would be. Fewer than 1% of LAM users in three clinical trials became pregnant when all the three LAM criteria were met.

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I'd be more worried about letting the placental site heal for a bit longer. In rare cases you can have an air embolism.
I'd exercise caution in regard to contraception too...

I'm still questioning the origins of that term!
Anyway, back to the topic - the ABA literature says that with no dummy use, BFing on demand and through the night should keep ovulation at bay. Also, co-sleeping mama's have longer ovulation-free periods - must keep the maternal hormones in higher concentrations to be skin to skin. All co-sleeping mummies I know have not ovulated for at least 3 years, so them's fair apples!
We still co-sleep, BF on demand and through the night (but we DO use a dummy, only to keep him asleep after he has fed to sleep), and it's been well over two years since ovulation - I am on the mini-pill and often miss days, let alone the three hour grace period...and no pg thus far! Not to say it's foolproof, just that it's worked thus far for us and if we fall pg tomorrow, no big deal, DS will be the minimum ideal age in time for next baby :)

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The term “Irish twins” is used to describe two children born to the same mother within 12 months of each other or born in the same calendar year. ...

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Hmmm - why 'Irish', though? It smacks of the anti-Irish sentiment generated in the 1800's - not to say Chloe meant it in those terms, just questioning it's unquestioned assignment to that kind of birth event...I know this is completely OT!

Roryroy- my sister fell while bf- only 3 months after her son was born- she got AF once- and she was on the mini pill- but stopped and thought she would be ok coz she was bf- but she is due to have her baby any day now... so my advice- if it aint on- it aint on!!!! LOL

Mayaness, I think it isa reference to Irish being Catholic and therefore not using contraception.

You have no foolproof time for not having another baby. you may not get pg but there are no proofs.

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bleeding up to the 56th postpartum day is considered part of the postpartum recovery process and is not counted as menstrual bleeding

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Bully for the scientists. I ovulated 4 weeks PP (used to do billings, know my signs - i had EWCM and light lochia at the same time!) and AF came back 6 weeks PP. DD was BFing every 3 hours or less and had no bottles and no dummy - nothing to suck but mummy. My mum has irish twins twice (irish triplets?). She had my eldest 3 siblings in 3 years. She breastfed fully all the time she had milk (which she tended to lose in the 2nd tri of each PG). Watch for signs you're ovulating and BEWARE. It can happen, even if you BF.

Bx

I have read a couple of things to be wary of. The first is that once bub goes for longer than 4 hours between any two b/f feeds in 24 hours, if you give an expressed bottle and effectively miss a feed, AF starts (don't forget some girls get AF almost straight away even if they are b/f) or later on the introduction of solids.

If you were to decide you want to DTD then you should get a copy of The Billings Method and study it religiously. You would need to abstain for 2 weeks so that you can observe your mucous pattern so that you know when you are having a change form the basic infertile pattern. When you are b/f you may not get the EWCM to signal O but there will be a change in your mucous pattern. This change however irrelevant it seems or different to what you saw when you were TTC is important and you should abstain for 3 days JIC.

If it seems too hard then just use a condom. Sometimes I get doubts and use one.

I think the term Irish twins is IRT to do with them being mostly Catholic and no contraceptives allowed.
When I mention about using Billings I often get a snigger thrown my way and the term Irish or Catholic Lotto :rolleyes:
I'm of Irish descent too and I don't find the term offensive but after having every Irish joke and Tasmaian joke (yes I was born there) ever heard thrown my way it just rolls off the teflon skin ;)

Some of my children are VERY close in age, and all have been fully breastfed for 6 months and part breastfed for 12 months. I also co- sleep. I have never had a period after a baby before falling pregnant again straight away, so you can fall pregnant before it arrives. Pregnancy can happen at ANY time, so just be careful if you dont want them too close!!!

Rory........Charlie was fully BF'd & still feeding through the night and I was on the mini pill......and we have Lexie Ooopsie Baby! (They are 14 months apart......) So I honestly don't believe, from my experience, that there is any guarantee........

Oh Jeez! I read the article Tara sent me and felt ok about it all - now I am not so sure LOL!!!

We are using a dummy, mostly because Ollie, like Flynn, is a very "sucky" baby and would be permanently attached to me if he had his own way (nice and all but not very practical when you have an 18 mo to handle too :))

Like I said, we want kids close but not that close! Looks like I will have to deliver the bad news to DH :( Ah well, only 9 more months before we TTC#3 and then he can get the snip LOL!

Having studied the origins of 'Irish' jokes (there's a bit about it in my Honours thesis on racism, as well as many respected publications on Irish racism!), I can't just let it 'roll off' - they are as insidious as Jewish jokes, in all honesty. This term 'Irish Twins' is another example of those origins - I mean, there are other Catholics in the world, aren't there? And even non-Catholics who don't use contraception and have kids very close together? This is me raising an objection to the term - common usage doesn't make it right, to me. Bring on the 'rolleyes'!!
Anyway, just to say it's different for everybody. I have neither fallen pg nor had a period since DS was born and I obviously don't rely on the mini pill (or I wouldn't miss it from time to time!) I'm not saying this as 'proof' that you won't fall pg, just as an example of how there is no flat rule about it either way. Some people just don't ovulate for at least 2 years after birth, some do right away. So, you gotta weigh up the risks and decide how vigilant you'll be and what measures you'll implement :)

Mayaness i will back you up if everyone in the world agrees to stop saying "scotch" in reference to whiskey and the Scottish peoples and only use it when talking about sticky tape. :p

Rory i'd probably err on the side of caution if i were you. Babies are quite good at preventing early siblings but that does need to mean mummy = dummy. You can always relax again once you've passed the 9 or so month mark...?

Bx

Oooh, yes Bec! I'm with you on that one, too!

My DH grandmother had 7 babies in 7 years. Her advice to me was "don't let anyone tell you that breastfeeding is a good contraceptive".

Its actually not a slur :) I am first generation Australian (from irish decent) and I've had that term used around me by many including irish people. It generally means because many irish families are large (my grandfather was one of 15, my granny one of 11) and to be large they often pop one out and have another shortly after ;) So the name came about. One thing the irish are good at is laughing at themselves, maybe we all need to take a leaf out of that book :D

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Mayaness i will back you up if everyone in the world agrees to stop saying "scotch" in reference to whiskey and the Scottish peoples and only use it when talking about sticky tape. :p

Bx

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I hope no-one here says Scotch in reference to whiskey because I was under the impression that the Irish and Americans make whiskey whilst the Canadians and Scots make whisky :p Although I could be confused - I often am lol.

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I'm still questioning the origins of that term!
Anyway, back to the topic - the ABA literature says that with no dummy use, BFing on demand and through the night should keep ovulation at bay. Also, co-sleeping mama's have longer ovulation-free periods - must keep the maternal hormones in higher concentrations to be skin to skin. All co-sleeping mummies I know have not ovulated for at least 3 years, so them's fair apples!
We still co-sleep, BF on demand and through the night (but we DO use a dummy, only to keep him asleep after he has fed to sleep), and it's been well over two years since ovulation - I am on the mini-pill and often miss days, let alone the three hour grace period...and no pg thus far! Not to say it's foolproof, just that it's worked thus far for us and if we fall pg tomorrow, no big deal, DS will be the minimum ideal age in time for next baby :)

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We co-slept/sleep and i got AF at 3 months post birth and we were BF HOURLY.

I would NEVER rely on BF unless you don't mind another baby soon because i don't believe its a guarantee at all :)

Actually everyone is making uisge beatha and spelling it wrong. It's gaelic for Water of Life - whiskey. Uisge means water and it's pronounced ish-ge which is where whiskey comes from, a mis-prononciation by the english. The Americans make bourbon, or they make whiskey and call it scotch.

I'm english actually, so why do i care? :P

Sorry Rory, i hope this racism vs harmless colloquialism chat is making you laugh rather than annoying you! :)

Bx

it is such a hard one and i guess what the girls have said is right, breastfeeding cannont be used as a fullproof contraceptive.

i have only been BF-ing 4 - 5times times a day with 12 hour gaps of no BF overnight and dd uses a dummy and i still havent gotten af! so go figure i am waiting for mine to come back and it hasnt and others feed 2 hourly / 24 hrs a day and get it back within 6 weeks

i didnt feed overnight from about 12 weeks, i didnt get AF until 9 months!! everyone is SOOOO different

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i hope this racism vs harmless colloquialism chat is making you laugh rather than annoying you!

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Not at all - I am pi$$ing myself actually :)

Last time AF returned at 7 months and I conceived Ollie the first time we tried when Flynn was 9 months - so our relatively high fertility makes me even more tetchy!!

Honestly Rory,. if you were considering DTD I wouldn't rely on BF as a honest contraception. As everyone has pointed out, there are good points and there are bad points. If are considering TTC#3 in 9 months time, I would advise(if I was medically inclined) to use condoms. I was reading an article and this woman is bf her 14week old and she is currently pg again. HTH

lol Bx, I was just commenting on what they write on the label and you dazzled me with Gaelic.

Cai - Yes, the Irish are very good at laughing at themselves, like many people are (regardless of extraction), so are Jewish people from those that I know. Trust me, in Ireland, a lot of the terms we take for granted (including calling something 'Irish' when it is illogical) are not heard of and those who have heard the terms take great offence. The ones who don't are younger and haven't thought about where the 'jokes' originate. Being laughed at (for reasons of racist origins borne of subjugation) is very different from laughing at oneself and accepting jokes made about you that are a bit rude and very unfounded. I'm first gen, too, with all my relations living in Ireland (and have lived there for a spell), so that's my reality, can't vouch for yours :)
Take home message is that relying on BF for contraception could end in a dilemma! Another story - a friend of mine has 3 children, one a couple of days older than my DS. First of all she was told she'd never conceive (let alone give birth, but that's another story!), yet she did, nearly 5 years ago. She has actually never had a period since then and managed to conceive two more children (all planned and spaced about 2 years apart) whilst term BFing and co-sleeping. So, she's ovulated and caught it on time - I love her story!