Choosing not to breastfeed

Hi guys. After having DS in January this year, and having such a terrible time of breastfeeding (me with high temperatures, high blood pressure, bubs screaming all the time because he was hungry, cracked nipples after one night, bleeding by day two and trying to rip my nipples off, plus some nasty midwives) I decided to put DS on formula from when he was 2.5 days old. Which some might find shocking. DH told me to do the decision I was comfortable with, and it turned out fine for us (with a change in formula two weeks down the track because Nan gave him constipation, but S26 Gold didn't). So now I'm preggers with No. 2, and DH and I were discussing this a few days ago, and I told him that because of my horrible experience, I really can't see myself even attempting to bf the new one, but would be interested in expressing instead of formula. Has anyone else made this decision, and how easy is it to express milk over breastfeeding? I would prefer to use my bm rather than formula, but seriously, I just cannot think about putting a baby to my chest for any reason than for a cuddle (I know, it did disturb me that much!!! I won't go into the horrible details).
I'm just looking for a bit of support here, no judging please, and if anyone has any advice that would be fantastic (other than telling me to go see a counsellor or something for my problems!! haha).
Thanks!!

I think if your going to pump full time, you'll need a hospital grade pump - because it's quicker, otherwise you will probably feel like a cow expressing 24/7 - and it's still hard work and can be quite emotional when you don't get the volume your after. I have a good electric pump and when I expressed for 24 hours, I was seriously attached to that thing all day! I don't know how practical it would be for full time expressing, but I have found hand expressing so much easier and quicker than my pump. I seem to get more volume (almost enough for two feeds) and much quicker than the pump. Pumping I only seem to get 60-80mls, some sessions I get less! I'm sorry I can't be of much help to you as I'm only really new at it all too... I know there is a section on the ABA for full time pumpers, maybe you could talk to one of them? Best of luck with what ever you decide!

Thanks for that Catherine :-)

Hi! Wow you def. had a hard time didn't you! I experienced the same as you - traumitised nipples! I ended up using a nipple shield full time (even when they were healed) which was excellent for me! Bubs got all the milk she needed and it didn't affect my supply at all! I know you prob. tried it but I just wanted to share my experience! Would it be an idea to try a shield from the start maybe? I switched to formula when I couldn't get DD to stop biting me! Ouch!!

Hope you find some advise that helps you out!!!

xoox

Aw, I'm sorry breastfeeding didn't work out for you and Aricyn. It doesn't sound like you had much support from the midwives at the hospital :(
Expressing full time can be really exhausting (yeah I now having a baby itself is exhausting!) I did it for the first couple of weeks with DS, as well as trying to breastfeed him. While we did end up b/f in the end, I had a very supportive LC and MCHN which was great cos of the very difficult b/f journey we had.
Anyway, for the first week I was expressing every 1.5-2 hours because DS would not attach at all. It didn't help that it took 5 days for my milk to come in. I think you should see if the ABA have any info to help you out. Because a baby feeding gets more milk out that you can by expressing, I'm not sure of the longevity of F/T expressing, but Im guessling that like everything its different for everyone.

It might be worth having a chat with an LC (a good LC is not just going to try to convince you to breastfeed if you have really decided you don't want to , but should still be able to advise you) anyway to get an idea of the road ahead!

Natty, seriously, I was so traumatised, I just couldn't even put him near my bare chest after a while. I don't regret my decision to make him a formula baby, after all, DH loved the fact that he got to bond with DS from the very beginning and DS is close to both of us now, which we both love. So I love the fact that I could see my DH feeding our DS and enjoying the closeness that is usually reserved just for mother and child. I think he would like it too on the second one to be able to share in that special bond of feeding your child and seeing the content look upon their face once they have finished. I did have nipple shields, but someone advised me against it (so many midwives changing shifts, I really can't remember who it was) but I was getting so much conflicting advice in the hospital, ie, one would come in when I was asking for assistance to put him on, and she would say, ok, show me what you are doing, so I show her what the last midwife showed me, and she was like, noo.. you are doing it all wrong.. do it THIS way... time after time it happened, with different midwives, and I just couldn't take it!!! It made me so stressed out, I was crying uncontrollably in hospital and thinking, why the hell can't someone just take this baby away, I'm not supposed to be able to do this (which I thought would naturally lead to PND.. and might have, if I had not put him on formula). The second I made the decision to put him on formula, my whole body just relaxed, and I felt like I just made the best decision for DS....

I totally understand your decision! Just wanted to see what you thought! I think your DH will enjoy being able to feed bubs from the start :) Will help their bond!

Goodluck with finding the right pump and I hope it all goes well!

xoxo

It will be hard work, but definitely do-able. One of my baby buddies pumped exclusively for months and months. She might even still be going - I've lost a track a bit. But it certainly can be done. It will take some organisation, especially when this is your second child, so start thinking about when you will be able to express. If it is something that you want to do I know you can make it work. GL.

I had to express full time for the first 2 weeks after DD was born. I was completely exhausted but got there in the end. It is doable but I would definitely get a hospital grade pump which can double pump. You can give it a go and if you find it too hard with a newborn and a toddler you can go exclusively FF.
Best of luck with expressing and I hope it works out for you.

First of all big :hug: i had a terrible time BFing DD1 by 3 weeks i was solely expressing for her. I hired a pump from the chemist (same as the ones in hosy) and used that up until dd was 7 weeks. I found it too hard to keep going so switched to formular. It is doable and i know a lady who did it with no problems. I just found that i'd express then feed and felt like i was double handling and spending twice as long as necessary to feed. I guess it depends on how much you want to do it iykwim. I felt guilty putting DD on formular but i was beginning to get down and IMO you need a happy mummy to keep bubby happy. I wanted to enjoy feeding her. My problems too started whilst i was in hospital with severly traumatised nipples and once home i got a thrush infection that i could not clear up. I dreaded BFing and cried knowing she was due for a feed, during the feed (from pain) and then for feeling resentful towards her and my body for not allowing me to do it with ease.
I have just had my 2nd DD (almost 5 weeks ago- oh time flies) and i was petrified throughout my whole pg of BFing. I was certain i would not go through the pain i did last time. My aim was to try and at the first sign of trouble i was adamant i would put her on formular again. However this time around she attached beautifully from the word go and we have not had a problem to date. I am now a true believer that it is all up to the baby and if i ever have no 3 i will do the same again and try but will not go down the path i did with DD1, i am not against formular.
The decision is entirely yours and your DH's and at the end of the day as long as you and bub are happy and healthy. I just thought i'd share my story so you know it may not be as bad as last time if you decide to try. i am suprised at myself at how much i am enjoying it. :)

I expressed full time with my second son. not from the word go but I did express from day one just not full time.. I went full time expressing at 7 weeks and we lasted till 10 months.. I hired a breast pump (medela) It can be done

Thanks nic.. and everyone else for your positive vibes.... :-) Might be an idea to hire.... instead of buying... just in case!!!!!!

I think if you join ABA you can get a discount but from what I remember it was a very similar cost to where I got mine from which was a medical supplier.. Plus through ABA you might not be able to have it for as long as you need it. Thats what I was told when I enquired about hiring through them.. It cost me $50 a month ( same as formula when you thknk about it) through a local medical supplier. And I see you live near the city so it shouldn't be a problem to get one...

Good Luck..

I have BF and pumped/fed and FF. IMHO either BF or FF is easiest. I found BF easiest of all, then FF, then pumping and feeding EBM, mainly because with BF there is no washing up or sterilising or prep time, and with FF there is but just the bottles and FF prep, and with EBM there is the bottles and the pumping equipment + the time to express + the time to actually feed them the feed. Just remembering it makes me shudder - that's where MY feeding trauma was. I was ill when i was pumping too, with a thyroid problem and just totally exhausted so that's probably a main reason i look back on that time with a sick feeling in my stomach. I was pumping to try to increase my supply too which made it worse as i was BF, then wait an hour, then pump, then feed DD again (as she was hungry due to my dropping supply) and i felt the whole of my life was either washing or attached to that bloody pump. It was only for a few weeks and ultimately i went to FF as it didn't work.

BUT i do know of lots of women with premmies who had to pump and feed for months, and one lady who did it with her first baby for over a year. I think the hospital grade double-headed pump is a must as it saves so much time, and learning to hand-express is probably a good idea because it can get more milk out than the pump which helps protect your supply.

I kind of agree with Hoody that some babies take to the breast with such ease. With the birth hormones and bubs all alert and rooting in your arms you might WANT to put him/her to the breast. If you did so and it hurt you could just switch to pumping right away. I can only imagine having to hold a pump instead of the baby to take colostrum off to feed bubs right after birth...? Is that what one does? Or can you pump during labour (would help move labour along i imagine, with the nipple stiumlation)?

If i were you (and i'm not, so you should ignore me if you already thought of all this, which i'm sure you have) i would join ABA and talk to them about feeding and pumping, arm yourself with all the info for BF AND expressing, and have a look at your days and see where pumping can fit in. Hire the machine you need, get it all set up to work. THen try BF (ask to meet the LC or ABA representative before the birth so you have a raport and support and can get started without having to rely on 800 different bits of advice the midwives all disagree on) and if it hurts or bubs doens't get the hang, you can switch to pumping with the most ease possible.

Without going into massive detail, i want you to know that i know how it feels to have painful trauma associated with part of your body, and i want to send you huge hugs and tell you that it can be SO different when the circumstances are different.

:hug: and good thoughts

Bx

Hi Aricyn's Mum

I'm sorry you had such a bad time - I had an rotten time in hospital too and there were various reasons why I switched to formula but having 20 different midwives come in, grab my boobs and grab DD's head and shove them both together was definitely a huge factor. As I say to people, I'm not a delicate flower but I actually felt very traumatised by the whole thing and couldn't face putting her to the boob for a long time.

So I expressed from the moment we left hospital until she was two months old. But not exclusively, she was also FF.

I've got to say, I wouldn't do it for that long again. FF and expressing is exhausting because in the early days to get your supply up you're meant to be expressing around 8 times per day. Then that can come down to around 5 times per day. I know that doesn't sound too bad but I found as my baby got older, after I'd given her a bottle I wanted to play with her, not express. I also found myself feeling guilty every minute of the day that I wasn't expressing and I couldn't really enjoy life. If I made myself a meal I'd be thinking "I should have just had a sandwich to give me more time to express", ditto if I read a magazine or did anything really.

However, on a brighter note, at 7 weeks I thought to myself "OK, if you never put her on the boob again, you will always have bad thoughts of BF and you may not even try it for no.2."

So, I popped her on and it was a million times easier than it had been at the start. Now, I didn't persist because my supply was right down and I just didn't want to get into that whole cycle again because we were in a pretty good little routine and I didn't want to start from scratch again. But it did allow me to heal and it did show me that BF doesn't have to be difficult. So that has given me hope if I have no. 2.

But I'd say, take a "wait and see" approach. You might find that you do feel strong enough to try BF again - if not, expressing is certainly an option. And expressing will certainly allow you to keep your options open for as long as possible.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I wouldnt beat yourself up over it, both my kids were bottle fed and they are big, strong healthy boys!
I couldnt breast feed because to me my boobs are a sexual thing and it grossed me out thinking of a baby feeding off them.
You have to do whatever you think is right, not just for the baby but for you also.
Good luck

I expressed full time for two weeks while I was trialling formula on my DD to see if it helped her health issues. It was doable as the others have said, but was absolutely exhausting (although I'm sure with a hospital grade pump it would have been a lot easier). I ended up leaving my DD on formula and have no hesitation about doing it again with this baby if she has the same issues as her sister.

Good luck. Its a tough decision to make and anybody who has FF or expressed knows that its not a convenience thing - soooo much more work than BFing.

HI,

the choices you make have to be good for everyone involved so I don't think anyone should judge you for that.

Expressing is time consuming but you can make it work. If I were going to try that I would probably try to train my boobs to express more than is needed for a feed so that your body thinks you need 200ml 4 times a day rather than 100ml 8 times a day if that makes sense. You would be expressing less and the expressing times are less likely to clash with feeding times as it's hard to feed and express at the same time. I'm going back to work soon and will be expressing a lot during the day, and even though I'm getting fast at it and some lean forearm muscles I have been considering upgrading to an electric one.

Would it hurt to speak to the hospital in advance re your feeding wishes and previous experiences, not so they can try and change your mind but so they can leave you be and let you get on with loving and raising your child. I know some places can be a pack of bullies, might save you some stress in the long run.

Thanks Rebecca and to everyone else for understanding!!! Sometimes thats all you need in here, to express your deepest feelings, and for people to come and sympathise with you. Thanks heaps all. :-)

Hi,

If you want to exclusively pump for your baby I could suggest no better resource than a book called "exclusively pumping" available at Mothers Direct - follow the links via my signature (mods, I know this is against etiquette, but I am fairly confident this is the only place in Australia that has the book)
The key to getting a good milk supply via pumping is pumping early and pumping often. YOu might want to start by hiring a breastpump, and if things are going well, buy one.
It sounds like your baby's birth and early breastfeeding experiences are still painful for you. Your baby is still young, are you expecting another one yet? Either way, you may find it useful to debrief about the situation with a midwife, a Lactation Consultant or a breastfeeding counsellor. The first few days can feel like you are in a pressure cooker - so much to get your head around, especially if you are unwell.
Many people find things go quite differently the second time round, and they go onto breastfeed fine. You might not be at that point of even being able to contemplate that now, but as you heal from what happened you may feel differently
Warm regards
Barb

To be honest, I would try breastfeeding again if I were you but enlist the assistance of a lactation consultant. The closeness that baby gets from breastfeeding is very beneficial, and if you can get things going, it's wonderful for you too.

But if you don't want to do that, I would say definately express instead of formula. I highly recommend getting an electric pump though, I have a manual one and I need to keep one breast full all day to get just one small bottle! With an electric one, you just turn them on and sit back, i believe. They're expensive (which is why I got a manual one) but you can pick up some second hand ones around the place (which is fine as long as you sterilize them) and the breastfeeding association rents them out.

hello Aricyn's mum

i just wanted to let you know i am a full time pumper.. i had serious probs getting ds to attach... so much so that feeding him was a very stressful and unpleasant experience for both ds and myself.. he would just scream.

now feeding is a happy and relaxing occasion that dh, ds and myself can enjoy.

I don't find it hard at all to express with my electric pump and i just do it in the lounge room whilst watching tv.

please don't let anyone make you feel bad for bottle feeding your baby.. you have to do what is right for your child AND for yourself too.

good luck.. i am only new at this too but i am here if you have any questions i may be able to answer for you.

Thanks Sirenz, its good to know that it is possible. I've been thinking about what everyone has written here, and been pondering for quite a while now, and I think that I may just FF the next one. Maybe by the time I have a third one (because I am planning for three) then my memory would have faded enough to actually feel comfortable with the idea of BF again, instead of not wanting to even contemplate it.. iykwim.... :-)