Sunday Trading :(

I know many will disagree but I think it's wrong to have "business as usual" every day of the week. I read in another thread that WA doesn't have it and good on them I say! I think that there should be one day a week that is family friendly. Give people (workers) a break and let them spend time with their families.

Since Sunday trading has arrived there has been a marked drop in parents being able to participate as volunteers on a Sunday. Plus people are more likely to go shopping than participate in sports, go to museums, art galleries, parks and other activities.

I think it's contributing to mental illness. People are getting depressed and burnt out by the expectation of employers that they must be available to work everyday of the week. I know that we must have essential services. What I'm talking about are all the retail outlets that are open.

I can remember a time in the early 70's when only shops like petrol stations and some fast food outlets like ice-creameries and fish and chips shops were open. There were no ATMs either so you had to be organised and get cash out on a Friday... or borrow some until Monday. But I also remember a time when people, especially families spent more time with other families. We'd hang out at sports events (sailing in our family) relaxing in the knowledge that nothing else was expected of us. You didn't have to do the grocery shopping because you couldn't.

How would people "cope" these days if there was no Sunday trading?

I agree! Altho I do go shopping on Sundays LOL. Lets us have saturday off knowing we can do it on Sunday.. but I guess should they all shut on Sundays again, we'd just rearrange our schedule :)

I agree too, every other day is open so why do they have to be open? Greedy traders...

We are a sailing family aswell so don't really go unless it is food shopping.

I disagree, I think it's important to have places open on a Sunday. In England, in fast food places and shops etc there would be regular employees that work Mon - Fri then on the weekend they would have younger staff or more flexible staff. When I was 15 I worked in a shoe shop - if they hadn't had Sunday trading then I wouldn't have been able to earn the money I wanted to. Also it gives mothers (or fathers) an opertunity to work and have their little ones looked after by the other parent.

Bath, I do understand what you're saying but so many people work shifts now (evenings/unsociable hours) that businesses closing on a Sunday wouldn't even come close to solving the problem. I think it would just deprive casual staff of earning good money (time and half?).

Also alot of people I know, my Dad included, work Mon-Sat, if the shops where closed on a Sunday when would he be able to do his shopping?

We rarely go to the shops on a Sunday because it's the only day in the week we can have family time, Aaron works weekdays & I work Saturdays until 1pm. Usually we go on picnics, visiting or do things together at home.

I'm not sure either if closing on Sundays would make people more active though.

Yes and no for me. Family dynamics have changed to the extent that they can only shop on weekends because they are working all week and some people don't want to finish work only to then go shopping so they are accomodating a need to stay open so those that do work or dont have time through the week can shop - same with places that stay open late accomodate shift workers. When I go out of town over the weekend sometimes, there are so many families that are out shopping together, so I suppose they are swapping family time at sporting events for shopping kwim?

Plus the business that keep the same trading hours 7 days a week might have rotating rosters too so that they might have different weekend staff.

Our here in the sticks though weekend trading is limited to cafes, pubs/clubs, corner stores etc after 1pm on a Saturday. Even the supermarket only started Sunday trading a few years ago (but the owners really are doing it for greed LOL). The downside of that a few years ago when the town had an industrial boom of sorts, the hours were very long and the workers didn't finish till well after the businesses closed and had nowhere to shop even if they needed the bare necessities.

The one things that really annoys me is that the whole country shuts down on Christmas Day, but can't do the same for ANZAC day - there is something so wrong in that if you ask me.

What I am concerned about is that the bank my DH works for is pushing for Sunday trading (opening of branches) and I think that's the beginning of the business/financial sectors following the retail sectors in "business as usual" on a Sunday :( Ok... yes it convenient for some shoppers now... but what if everyday was the same... office workers commuting to work on a Sunday... it's not right. JMO People NEED some kind of cycle in their lives. We need certain days to be different or else I think we'd all go barmy!

Hmmm, I don't agree with places like banks being open all weekend, although I can still see how it would have it's place - think of the convenience for businesses like pubs/clubs/service stations that have to keep large sums of money on the premises because they can't bank over the weekend. If they could it might even reduce the number of armed hold ups that happen (in a round-a-bout sort of way).

But there does have to be a limit. Even the RTA is open on a Saturday in some areas.

RTA is open on a Saturday here.

Banks I agree do have a place on a Sunday as well I think. If we have any home loan stuff to do with the bank Aaron has to take a day off or I have to catch the train (an hour trip) into the city so we can do whatever on a weekday. Very painful if it's only to sign one paper.

i have to agree that the idea of having one day a week where families have their time together is important - but i don't think having things closed on Sunday's is going to fix the issue. both DH and i work - admittedly i don't work weekends, but his work (truck driver) means he is often away on the weekends, so we have our "us" time when it's available to us - which is usually during the week! i don't think enfocing a particular time of the week as "family" time is going to work for the modern families - i think this is something the family has to want to do, and it's up to individuals to make that work.

as others have said, sometimes weekend trading is the only time people can honestly do their business - i work part time, so for me, i have a day off during the week, but at my work place, full timers work 8-5 mon-fri - which makes it almost impossible to catch banks and things - for those people, weekend trading would be beneficial (although we live a fair way out of the city, so i think it would take ages to catch on!)

and if i'm honest - i almost always do my grocery shopping on the weekends. i have to trave at least 60km round trip just to get to a grocery store, so i tend to do everything on the same day - and most of the time it's on the Sunday as i spend time with family/friends or working in my garden on Saturdays...

Bath, i completely understand that need to encourage family togetherness - but i think it's up to individual families to do that...

I totally agree Bath. I've always opposed Sunday trading and as a former retail worker I hated having to work Sundays as well. I started working before Sunday trading began here and it didn't restrict my capacity to earn. In my opinion all it does now is to spread the dollar over seven days instead of six and rob employees in sunday trading businesses the opportunity to have a recognised structure to their week. Still, I guess people do have a choice to some extent as to what type of work they choose to perform.

If banks and other organisations follow suit I will be very disappointed.

yay!!! I've been wondering when banks are finally going to catch up to the rest of the world and have sunday trading.

I think sunday trading is great. It's not like every worker has to work on a sunday and it gives students and so on a chance to work at a time that doesn't conflict with studies.
It also means that 2 working parents can schedule their rosters so as to minimise the amount of time children spend in childcare.

I've never been a 9-5 person and our business runs 24/7 so it's more convenient if other businesses do the same thing. DH spends more time with his children than other people we know who have 9 to 5 jobs so I think that family time is more about the commitment that parents make to create it than the hours their workplace operates. The only other dad we ever see at swimming and football lessons is the guy who works sundays and nights. Working those hours leaves him free to participate in his children's lives in ways that dads who work traditional hours can't.
I wish Australian banks had the kind of customer service that banks in some other countries have. Whenever I need to contact my bank in England I just pick up the phone and call. It doesn't matter what time of day or night it is over there, a real person always answers and is genuinely helpful. They don't even charge me bank fees.

ETA - in regards to people needing a cycle. I'm pretty comfortable without one and even supposing that I'm a freak and most people do need one then there's no rule that says it must be the same cycle. I once had wednesdays and thursdays off and TBH it was great. I could do all my banking, shopping etc on my days off and since I worked nights I could still go out late on the weekend nights and get up in time for work. It was like having 2 weekends every week.

LOL Chloe, back in my heyday ;) I worked in a bowling club on Sunday all day behind the bar and there were many a time when I only had time for a shower and a bit of breakkie before heading back to a bar LMAO.

Depends on your perspective I guess. Working regular hours Monday to Friday is very important to me and something I've waited a long time to be able to have. Of course not everyone is the same, but I get pretty worked up on behalf of the people who used to work Mon - Fri and now have no choice but to work weekends. I'm thinking of career retail workers who can't just pick up another job easily.

It wouldn't be too bad if you had other days off though. For 10mths my DH worked a 13 day fortnight and it damn neared killed him mentally it was that draining for him, not to mention I felt like a single mother and the kids never saw him as he was gone before they woke and was home after they were in bed - so that sucked big time.

Yeah a 13 day fortnight is really a really big ask especially when the days are long and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We all need time off.
I guess we're all different but I don't see why it's important that the days you have off are saturady and sunday.
Obviously for Jewish workers it's important that they don't work on the sabbath and there are Christians who aren't comfortable working on Sundays and Muslims who like to have Fridays off so they can go to Friday prayer but the great thing about a multi-cultural work force working a week of 7 days is that all these wishes can be accommodated.

ETA - the thing that bugs me is when companies want to remove penalty rates for working on public holidays, at night etc.

Bath I remember a time when the shops were only open until 12pm on a Saturday!! There was one shop which was 45 minutes away , that stayed open until 4pm, and that was a real treat.
I have to admit that i love being able to drop in at the shops any time on the weekend, but i do understand what Bath is saying also.

I hope the shops do open on a Sunday here in WA. I'm not sure about banks being open on a Sunday and not all are open here on a Saturday.
It was strange moving from the UK were supermarkets opened 8am on a Monday and closed 10pm on a Saturday and then opened again on a Sunday 10 till 4pm. I worked in one of the largest supermarkets and we didn't have to work a Sunday but when we did we would get double pay they would employ youngsters to work the weekends.

When we moved to Adelaide we got used to shops opening early our local Coles opened at 7am and stayed open late most of the week so it was a shock when we moved to WA and the supermarket didn't open till 8am and closed at 5pm.

As the partner of a retail worker, I dislike the unfairness in this culture of extended trading.

I think what irks me more than my partner being required to work on demand (as a manager he does not get to choose his own availability) is that he receives no penalties for working weekends and nights (or overtime for that matter, but that's a different irk); even though he incurs additional costs in working these hours. In our area there is no public transport during these times so it is more expensive for him to get to and from work, as he has to catch taxis if I am not available to pick him up, which is often the case now that we have a newborn.

I would have less of a problem with extended trading hours if other essential services (like transport) were similarly available.

I would be happy to see Sundays as a 'work free' day. But I think Saturday morning opening (post offices, banks, etc) is brilliant, as it gives full time workers some opportunity to actually get things done without having to take time off work.

I have a good laugh @ the perth thing. But I lived there for ages, so I can :P My FIL says he wouldn't want Sunday trading because you need to support the little guys (who can open on weekends... like milkbars/deli's etc) but the funny thing is he never shops there! Not only does Perth need Sunday trading, but also extended hours!

I think Sunday trading is fantastic. A lot of businesses get lots out of it, a lot of working families only have weekends to fit it all in (and some people do work saturdays) and also I know loads of friends who *loved* working on sundays as teens. I love my extended hours, 24 hr coles & kmart (especially helpful when in labour LOL). But I can see how its annoying for some :)

I can see where you are coming from Bath. I think ages ago when everything stopped over the weekends everyone had loads of time to do that 'family' stuff. I think these days there is still a cycle but everyone is on a different one so it doesn't seem like there are masses of people out there doing their family stuff on weekends IYKWIM?

Personally Sunday trade has been my saviour as a single parent. It means I can work weekends when my mum and XP can watch Em which leaves me time to study during to the week. But in saying that I am working towards being able to work a Monday - Friday week lol. And when I do that I'll still want weekend trade so I can get my stuff done!!!

And as for losing penalty rates and overtime rates - a big thumbs down. If extended trade exists then it should exist with those rates!

I know people won't agree with this, but I'll throw it out there. If we're talking about people having cycles, just different ones.. then I think penalty rates should go (for weekend trade - not public holidays). Why should a Mon-Fri person earn less than a Wed-Sun person?? Penalty rates should only apply to working outside your own normal hours.

Suse that's what I experienced (minus the baby and I drive) and exactly what I was thinking of.

DH works in the entertainment industry, so his hours are shot and he usually works weekends. I work M-F, so the only time I have time to do shopping stuff is weekends. A friend and I have started a once-a-month ritual on a Saturday of driving up to the Lockyer Valley and getting a month's worth of fruit'n'veg and meat for both our families, which has pretty much freed up the rest of the weekends in the month for me to spend time with friends, bake or be with DH if he's not working. Also a lot of weekends are taken up by car shows for us, we currently have 2 show cars and they go to different shows, so there is the 8-12 hours of detailing per car that has to be done as well as an early start (usually the shows open for competitors at 6am).

We're really lucky with our bank, our bank manager will drop by home to get us to sign things, he's even come into my work to get me to sign something, also we can ring the branch and they'll deal with things over the phone for us (like moving money, or paying a large bill that is over the internet banking daily limit).

When I lived in the UK, I loved the shopping on a Sunday, it gave us Saturday to do things and then we'd do our shopping on Sunday (with a ritual of breakfast/lunch then shopping). Then near one of the places I lived, they had a few 24 hour supermarkets, which rocked, it meant I could go and do my shopping late at night (usually on the way home from the pub in Summer - which was around 11pm) and have my weekends free to go away.

Liz, I partly agree with regards to the penalty rates but for so long as the bulk of workers work mon-fri I think they should remain because currently our culture is set up so that it's easier and more convenient to work traditional hours.
People like nurses and hospitality workers etc are busy on New Years while everyone else is out partying. Why shouldn't they be paid extra for it?
I guess it partly comes down to what workers demand too. The only way we can get security guards to work for us on NYE is to pay them double rates plus a bit extra on top. If we offered them less they wouldn't work. I'm pretty sure that in other industries the same applies.

You talking NYE or New Years Day? Coz I did say that penalties should still apply for public holidays :) But I understand what you are saying. But if Saturday & Sunday are essentially the same as a weekday, which is what it seems people want .. then I don't see the need for penalty rates just coz of the name of the day.

As for 24 hour supermarkets, these are great. And I figure if they have staff in there stocking shelves, they might as well be open too! hehe.

I'm sort of on both sides of the fence on this one.. I am all for convenience, but at the same time think its a shame that society feels the need for all this convenience, and makes us a workaholic society.

btw - where's my penalty rates working more than 40hrs a week as a mum?? Where's MY weekend??? *sigh*

Liz, we pay penalty rates for both.
NYE isn't a public holiday but most people would rather not work it so we have to pay them well to induce them to do it.
We actually pay less for NYD although it's a public holiday because people are more willing to work then and in our industry there is less demand for workers.

Good point Liz. If people want to have their own cycle and Monday is usually their day of rest then they should be paid more to work on that day. If people are happy and available to work on a Sunday then maybe they shouldn't be paid any more than a weekday worker.

I still think it helps community cohesion (maybe not the right word) for weekends to be designated "special/different" in some way. It's the time of the week that if something is organised than you can expect that most people would be available to attend. Why bother having the football on a weekend (mainly, I know there is Friday night games etc) why have community fetes on a weekend? Why bother having weekend sports for kids?

I think if everyday was essentially the same that it would be a living nightmare. I feel a little of this as a SAHM. DH gets his break away from the office... it's business as usual for me.

I think that the rate we are going then everyday will soon be the same. We might even find that school is available on the weekends too... why not?

Actually I don't think that school on the weekends is such a bad idea.
I'm sure that lots of students would rather go to school on saturady or on saturday morning and get a week or a fortnight extra holiday.
When it comes to schools if I were allowed i would take apart the school day and totally rearrange it. I would have one lot of students start at 7am and go until 12:30 and the the next lot start at 13:00 and go through until 6:30. That way children could have afternoons or mornings free. If classes in one subject were longer and on the same day then teachers could work longer days when they worked but have more days off.
I'd make saturday a school day too so everyone could have longer holidays.

Sometimes I think we're too attached to the ways that we did things when we were younger and so we just keep doing things the same way although there are more efficient ways. Like the keyboard - the a is in a silly place for such an oft used letter but because the qwerty system was efficient for early typewriters we still use it.

Completely off topic.. lol.. but Dach - the qwerty keyboard was designed to slow down typists on those old typewriters... why don't you get yourself a dvorak keyboard Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Noice & fast ;) You can actually change it in Windows to use the dvorak layout (so DH tells me :) ) Might try it! LOL - would be hard to get used to!

LMAO - I just saw that the A is in the same place! Maybe it's just your little pinky finger that can't keep up ;)

Hehe, yep, I was also going to say that the "a" key was placed there to slow typists down. Has anyone in here used an old style typewriter? I used to have an old Remington and if you typed too fast the hammer things with the letters on them got all tangled up. (actually that's a nice little Sunday trading analogy... maybe we all will get a bit tangled up by going too fast and not taking a day to rest?)

I've been perusing some other forums on the issue of Sunday trading and i agree with this:

"Also, I don't think it's a good idea to indulge the idea that we have an innate right to get anything whenever we want it and that traders should be constantly available to attend our every whim. It's healthy to have to wait for some things, or plan ahead to ensure you have them, instead of demanding immediate gratification."

I think Sunday trading is just another example of consumerism dictating our lifestyles. What are people afraid of by having everything closed for a day? Afraid of stopping for 24 hours and having time to think?

I know I'm getting a bit wound up about this issue LOL :rolleyes: it reads worse than it is LOL

So by being slower the typewriter was more efficient but now the world has moved on from typewriters so what was once efficient is now redundant.... I think there's something in that for all of us :P

I think that just blaming consumerism for what we don't like in the world is a bit simplistic and TBH I don't see any inherent benefit in waiting for anything.
I just don't see any point in trying to hold back the future - once upon a time people worried about how unhealthy it was to rush about the countryside by train but we survived and adapted and now those fears seem a little silly.

I don't expect traders to be constantly available to cater to my every whim but if I feel like buying something and they're not open I don't see why I should wait when I can just as easily go to another shop or order it online.

Should Museums and Art Galleries be closed on a Sunday too? What about cafes? Is it a bit cheeky of me to expect a latte? Why should a cafe be able to turn a profit on a sunday but not a hardware store? Is it rampant consumerism demanding instant gratification if I want to plant carrots on a sunday and pop down to the shops to get some seed or is it just convenient to be able to indulge my hobby when I want to?

I think people need time out but I don't see any need to dictate when that time should be.

ETA -
When I was in Spain oodles of shops were open for late night trade. I loved it (I'm a night owl by inclination), it was fantastic to be in a place where everyone was out and about in the evening not sitting at home watching TV. I think that it's a shame that integration into the EC means that Spanish villages and towns are becoming increasingly bound by 9-5 hours. TBH I see more joie de vivre communities that aren't bound by 9-5 hours than in those that are.

Very much agree with Bath with all her points on this issue, but good counterpoint by Dach as well.

OoooOooOOo chloe I love it! I think I agree with all of what you say.

Bath is there any way that if Sunday bank trading came about your DH could decline working on a Sunday? I know how annoying it must be for you. I can see where you are coming from, I guess for me because it doesn't impact me directly I love my extended/sunday trading. I think if it came down to it I would be upset at sat/sun trading interrupting our weekend time because I too want my kids to spend time with their dad. I guess all the people I've ever known have *loved* working weekends because they got time off when everyone else was working or kids who loved working weekends for extra cash. I'm sure there are people out there who hate weekend trading, I guess I've just never bumped into them LOL!

Chloe: Don't some European cities close for extended periods over lunch, I'm pretty sure this occurs in many French villages too... for a few hours in the middle of the day? I think THAT's a great idea! it would allow people who work outside the home to return to the home base for lunch and contact with the housebound parent and kids.

Cai: Extended banking hours probably wouldn't affect DH in his current role but I feel for all the other bank workers who have church/sport/other commitments on a weekend who will have to sacrifice these activities. Also I think it's a slippery slope. ok... so banks open all weekend... then so will the legal providers that support financial transactions like mortages... then eventually all office workers will be dragged into working over the weekends as private corporations see the potential now that the whole concept of going to work on the weekends in "normalised".

Bath - yes - when I was in Italy it drove me NUTS that nothing was open after lunch LOL. But everything was open late into the evening. I guess it does come down to what you are used to. Personally I'd prefer to knock off at 5 and have the rest of the day at home rather than having a 3hr lunch break and having to work into the evening. *shrug*

:

---

I think people need time out but I don't see any need to dictate when that time should be.

---

True, but at the same time, it'd be nice to know when people's days off were so we could get together. It's becoming a bit like shiftworkers hardly seeing their spouses coz of overlapping work hours.. can't find a day to get together as a family coz everyone works different days.