Making ART/IVF better for partners

Hello,
My dh and I are undergoing our first cycle of IVF, and our FS and clinic has been great - no really complaints. But after our OPU, we had a conversation about how dh felt he was being treated through the process. And while he was happy, he thought that there were just a few little things that the clinic could do to make the experience a better for partners.

So, I'm starting this thread for two reasons. One to see if this is a similar experince for people using different clinics, and two, in the hope that maybe someone from IVF and similar clinics may read this and get some ideas on how to improve the experience for partners of women undergoing fertility treatment in their clinics.

The wish list that dh and i came up with is as follows:

1. At least some mags in the waiting rooms that are for guys - while I enjoy vogue and home beautiful (for a short time anyway) - my dh cant stand them and has nothing to read while we wait, or he waits for me to have my scan.

2. When they call you to go to appointments - it would be great if they called out dh's name out first - just once - just to make him feel like he is really a part of this. I know that partners do not go to all appointments but there are a few where the odds are in favour of them being there.

3. Related to the above, just once, it would be nice if the nurse/FS etc asked dh how he was going, before asking me. Again, just to recognise that they are equal partners in this process and that while the physical stuff may not be happening to him, the emotional stuff sure is. I'm sure it is just habit that they ask the women undergoing treatment first (and I must admit I was normally the first out of my seat when our name are called for appointments), but it should be something they can do once.

4. This is the one that started this conversation between my dh and i. One the day of the OPU, the room he had to go to for :sperm: collection, was called the 'production room':doh:. Now I know that a name like 'pleasure palace' is also inappropriate, but surely there is something better than 'production room' to name it.

5. I cant personally comment on this one, but dh assures me that many of the 'quality' dvds in the 'production room' were gone and only their dvd covers were there:rolleyes:. So 1, shame on any guys that have 'borrowed' the dvd's to take home, and 2, maybe there needs to be a regular restocking program:redface:.

6. Make sure that the partners details are on all the forms/stickers for forms etc.

7. Make internal scans less 'ikky'...(prob not achievable:D..)

So, some of you may read this and think that it is petty - and maybe it is, but I know that these are things that would really make a difference to my dh.

Is this a similar experience for other partners going through ART? And if yes, any more suggestions on what could be done to make it just that bit better?

Hi farmgirl....

Yep, we understand what you mean, and its definately not petty. It's a bit different for us I suppose, but just as important that my partner feels like she is a part of the process too. I like your suggestions (though I don't know much about the production room!), I particularly like #7 too! LOL!

Something I think thats really important for the clinic to acknowledge is that while you and I are popping pills or injecting (lol, makes us sound like hard core druggies!), our partners are the ones who have to support us and hold us up when we have an emotional breakdown, and a lot more support should be given to them by the clinic too. Shel struggled a bit with not having anyone to talk to about what she was feeling, what to do to support me... just lucky a few woman at work had gone through the same thing and were able to give her support, as i really wasn't able to give her as much as she needed at the time.

Our FS appointments and then place for EPU and transfer were about 800klms apart, so we might have had a little different experience?

1. I can honestly say that I didn't notice what magazines were at the FS office while we were waiting. Should've taken some more notice as I do think they could leave some men mags laying around (car mags, mens health etc)

2. Our FS only ever called out my name. I never really noticed that he never called DH's name out, but understand that it would be a nice thing to call out both partners names.

3. FS usually asked me first how I was, sometimes he would direct the question towards the pair of us and see which one of us answered first, just for general chit chat i think?

4. DH had to go to the 'green room' He was given directions on how to get to the green room by following the green wall to the elevator then going somewhere which involved following more green. It is a bit of a joke between us now, and he has refused to paint green in our house ever.

5. Can't comment personally either! DH was given a key to the green room, and a cd booklet full of DVD's to take with him to the green room. He did mention that some were rather distasteful. when he returned to the waiting room, he had to hand back the key, dvd and his sample in a brown paper bag.

6. I'm pretty sure that DH's name was all over any sticker/paperwork that there was.

7. Not sure that my scans were all that icky. Were glad they were over though.

Our FS made sure that DH was standing there watching all my scans. For our first one with him he practically demanded that DH get up and come watch, I think he said something about it involving him too, so he should be watching.
The girls showed us both how to use the puregon pen, but moreso DH as I said to them I would just get flustered and forget it all. When it came time for trigger, they did the same, showed both, but then ran through it again with DH.

I didn't like how they told DH to come see me in recovery then after 5-10 minutes said he had to go wait back downstairs in the waiting room. I needed him with me, and I think he wanted to be with me too.
After I got dressed, I moved to another waiting room to have something to eat and sat around other women who had their support person with them, while they forgot to call the girls downstairs to let DH know he could come up to me. It probably seems like a silly little thing, but DH is my comfort blanket so to speak, I feel better when he is around, especially as it was my first IVF pick up and I was so far from home.

Nic

Great idea for a thread!

I totally agree re the magazines and calling of names. Hubby comes in for each scan, so hopefully he feels more included that way.

It does seem to be a bit female biased, which is a shame but our clinic have been generally pretty good at including him too.

Good thread.

Really happy with my clinic, but I am totally superfluous. To start with it was like I didn't exist. Even though the fertility issue is mine, all they do is talk to DW about this and that. Granted, she has to endure all the treatment just because my swimmers are funny shaped (which is totally unfair on her but that's where we currently stand with ART), but I still have an active role in this process other than being a sperm donor. For instance, I attend all the appointments, collect some of the drugs, and administer all of the needles.

But I don't let it bother me too much. I just make sure I ask heaps of questions so they actually realise I am there too. To be fair to them, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they get lots of males come through the appointments with glazed eyes and a serious lack of involvement, so it's probably a learned response. In my experience, men often don't take an interest in medical matters or have much knowledge in this field so they are already behind the 8-ball by the time they end up on the rollercoaster. Since I have got to know the staff better and vice versa, I am included more.

ETA: Oh, it sucked majorly that I had to walk back through the waiting room past the other patients and receptionist with my little paper bag on EPU day. Why not put the room somewhere more discreet so you don't have to look like a total tool after the job is done.

Thanks everyone for the input, there seems to be some general consesus emerging :). Once the thread seems to have run out of steam, I intend to amend the list to fit the input.

Nic/Slyder - i'm thinking that the 'production room' is not nearly as bad as having to parade the paper bag thru the waiting room - surly that is an obvious situation to fix?? At least the production room is down a corridor off the main reception area, and has its own 'delivery' reception away from prying eyes. So point 4 should be expanded to include that :sperm: delivery areas should be in a discrete place, away from main reception and waiting areas to ensure the depositing person a level of privacy and comfort.

Leasha - i dont know about you - but at the moment I'm feeling like a hard core druggie and will until the bruising goes down (it was always the ones i did the bruised the worst) - your comments really hit home that this is about the partners - irrispective of gender - although the paper bags and production room will always stay with the guys! Good luck with the pg and thanks for your thoughts.

Slyder - do you think that some partners (esp the guys already behind the 8 ball) become more disenfranchised because they do feel so out of the inital conversations because they dont understand the terms and female insides etc etc? I'm thinking that before we went to the FS, I'd done heaps of research on the web etc, but dh was still off in laa laa land coming to terms with the fact that he had poor quality/no. sperm, so he was prob 6 months behind me in the first place. Your dw if lucky to have someone who is so willing to push the envelope and learn so much along the journey.

Nic - you sound like you have a great FS, and clinic, but it is crap about how they treated you and your dh where you had the OPU . I know that I was totally on the verge of tears when I came of it, and would have been a mess without dh there. I think that your experience deserves another point, 8. something along the lines that following all proceedures (no matter how small or significant), partners should be, where medically fesiable, allowed to be with the person going through treatment ASAP. Staff should have advising partners that they can accompany their loved one as the priority. (it sounds very formal, but I'm tired and will play around with it later). At a less significant level, my dh did not come into the room when i had scans (he did come in for the et), but then my FS did not get him after the scan was finished and she discussed with me the results. On reflection, she could have easily done this when she left the room to enable me to get changed, or she could have got a nurse to do it if there were other things the FS needed to do at the time.

Thanks everyone :)

FG, with our clinic, being regional and all, the hospital we use for EPU is actually a specialist hospital and not initially designed with 'production' ideas in mind. The blokes room is upstairs, about the size of a toilet, sporting a lounge chair and a stack of porn. I honestly thought the porn thing was a joke that people made up, but it truly is real. I spent the first few minutes doing nothing but laughing, I just found it amusing. Worse still, the room is next to the staff open function area so you can imagine the types of shenanigans that go on when they have a staff gas on.

As for guys being out of the loop, it's probably a vicious cycle. Some blokes (and I know plenty) are not at all receptive to clinical environs and medical matters so that makes it hard for staff. The ones that are OK with it and accustomed to it have to earn their stripes I suppose. I didn't take it to heart too much, I just make sure they don't forget I exist. I was very involved in the EPU as DW was awake and in a lot of pain. So I took on a lot of the support stuff and relaying information to her etc. I guess it also depends how you cope with the ugly side of medicine. I'm cool with it, but some people find it very challenging.

Thankfully our clinics 'production room' has an entrance just outside the main door to the clinic with a sliding door going into the back of the clinic so DH just leaves the sample on the ledge and rings a bell then departs the room. He doesn't have to go back in to the waiting room.

My DP finds this process really embarrasing and it's a bit of a trial for us - usually he doesn't want to discuss it, so I'm very thankful that he doesn't have to take a paper bag past lots of strangers.

Lots of blokes are very uncomfortable with it Cece so don't worry. I know someone who had to go the Viagra option (given by the Doc) as he had stage fright.

What a great idea CeCe.
SLyder, my DH said that the room seemed to be near the nurses tea room or something, he said he could hear people talking. We had a bit of a laugh about it, well maybe it was me who laughed! He laughed when I told him that the FS said there was an "audio visual room" for the men. I think he thought it was a bit of a joke until he actually got there.

Nic

Great idea for a thread!

DH is lucky that the production room where we are is way down the hall at the other end of the floor,tright next to the'dropoff window,so noone really has to see it at all - allows for that bit more privacy.

Although he too had a complaint about the dvd's and mags-a bit old and out of date,and the mags a bit 'tatty' Although,wouldnt want to be the one to have to go and buy new ones!

Finally,as for the nameof the room, have also heard it called the 'masturbatorium' - yuck!

Cheers...

Fi:hello:

At least you guys have a room, at my clinic you have to use the disabled toilet :(

hmmm, we don't have a "clinic" as it is - it's all done at the local hospital! the "collection room" that they use is actually the same room they use for transfers, and has an ensuite, chair, tv, double bed - the whole nine yards! not that DH has needed it - his sample is always produced at home and just handed to the nurse when we get there (and i choose to drive, so HE has to hang on to it! :lol: )

Our FS always calls my name from the chart, but greets DH first, always speaks to both of us, asks directly if DH has any questions. during u/s, DH was writing out the results for the nurse, watching the scan. during ET, he was told where to stand to get the best vantage point for watching the u/s of the embie being transferred - he had a better view than me!

overall - i think our clinic has been amazing at making sure DH has been involved. the nurse even rings DH for some things cos she knows i work and he is able to answer when i can't!

We've been fortunate enough that for all of DH's samples for analysis and for ICSI, he's been able to produce them at home. I'm banished from the room, as I'm usually so stressed I make things harder for him! When we get to the day hospital, the scientist doesn't come to collect the sample from us until each couple is allocated to a little room - for me to get changed and then have the nurses, anaesthetist, scientist and FS all come to check details and talk to us before hand.

My FS often ends up spending more time talking to DH than me, including one time where DH and the FS ended up having a discussion in the middle of the waiting room about the cooking show that was currently on TV! He always checks whether DH has any questions - and I just know there's often eyerolling and knowing glances being passed over the top of my head! DH has also had to do drug collections without me - including the one where he was given the demonstration on how to prepare and inject the lucrin!

We do usually only end up with my name being called, though... But you can tell that our FS is going out of his way to make DH comfortable and feel included. I admit I'm surprised by it - friends of ours used the same FS a while back, and found that DH was often excluded and cut off and ignored. I must say I'm certainly relieved that he appears to have changed his ways!

BW

BecD - my dh had to use a toilet when he went for his first SA - was not impressed either. You would think that they could organise something a little better.


BW, saltprincess and biggsy's girl - sounds like you have great FS who have really thought about how to deal with partners - thats great. My dh comes to most appointments, and the FS engages him when we are in appointments too, for us, it just seems to be the bits around that bit that maybe could be better thought out. BG - I like the sound of how you they allocate you a room and everyone comes to the two of you.

Princess Fiona - that name for the room is sooo bad

Salt, if something works for one couple, then it's right for them. Each couple is different, however. It's certainly worth talking to him, though. It's sometimes easy to lose sight of the fact that this journey hurts them as well. But men being men, they are more likely to hide it and decide that they need to be strong for us.

I will just add... DH was more scared of injecting me than I was of doing it myself. Even when I started giving myself nasty bruises, he was still too scared to do the injections for me!

BW

Hey, don't worry, I agreed with everything you said. You ladies have to endure the treatment, we don't (in most cases). Even when the issue is MF, it's just crap that the female has to go through all of that. I don't think I'll ever get past the guilt on that score. Emotionally, both sides of the equation are equal I think, but I'd never dream of comparing my very small physical role with the stuff DW has to endure.

The other day was actually the first time I'd collected DW's medication. Because it is prescription I assumed I couldn't but she rang ahead and the pharmacy was cool with it. I did the needles on the stim cycle and all the prep work for it (ie. DW just came up to the bedroom when I was ready and then went back to the tele). I go to just about every appointment, but she makes all the phone calls as I hate using the phone. So it's not like I do that much, I just do what I can, as obviously I can't take the drugs or put up with the scans and BTs. But I am 100% available emotionally, as she is for me.

PS. I just remembered that I was too chicken to take my samples in for analysis during the early AC consultations, so I'm no saint. I made her do it!

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Slyder - I've re-read my post and I just wanted to add - I hope you didn't find my comments about my DH dismissive of the male partner's role in FT. The things I said are the things that DH has said to me - that he just wants to be my support, that I'm going through more than he is etc. That's not my opinion of what every male partner's attitude towards it should be.

Based on what you've said, now I'm wondering if perhaps it might be better if DH were more involved, but he is very emotionally supportive so I'm pretty content with that side of it. I do get him to give me all my injections, I think that's fair (plus, I don't think I could do it myself). But it's never even occurred to me that DH would go and pick up meds if I run out. Maybe I'll have a talk to him sometime and see if he's happy with the way we're arranging things, or if he'd like to change any of it.

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This thread got me to ask DH how he felt about how he was treated and he actually thought he was treated very fairly. He said he expects that with me being the 'patient', ie the one mainly going through the procedures, that he is there for moral support and does not expect to be treated as anything more. He reckon that the time where he was needed, he felt he was treated with respect, and that's all he was after.

He also made the point that clinics would encounter a huge range of human reactions, and their responses to individuals would be tempered by their overall experiences, so you will rarely have one person who is happy with every aspect of the service. I think this is to be expected to a certain extent in every facility where a diverse range of clilents come through on a reular basis. I understand some men need to feel more involved, but usually a medical practice will concern themselves with the primary patient - not just fertility clinics, but all medical facilities. Even if the issue is MF, the primary patient is the one who they are conducting the bulk of the medical procedures on.

However, I'm one who always believes that you should make suggestions, make your voice heard if you do feel strongly about it, as there is always room for improvement in any service. I'm sure if it's a valid idea that is easily implemented, you will find they would be happy to adjust to suit. But I think in reality, the focus will always be on the women in fertilty treatment in its current form, as the clinic is there to offer a medical service, and does not usually take on an emotionally supportive role.

hi all i totally agree that something needs to be done to include partners and meet their needs. My DH found it super difficult when he gave sample even though the room was away from prying eyes he said that whilst attempting to give it his best shot as he put it, it was like being a teenager again and nearly being caught by your mother. dh could hear every sound door open and close conversations of staff outside the room. i was glad that there were very few people in the waiting room area as the hallway completely echoed and i could hear the nursing staff explain alot of details of where he need to put his manly hood sample once he was done. I think more needs to be done to offer support to all partners in general.

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He also made the point that clinics would encounter a huge range of human reactions, and their responses to individuals would be tempered by their overall experiences, so you will rarely have one person who is happy with every aspect of the service. I think this is to be expected to a certain extent in every facility where a diverse range of clilents come through on a reular basis. I understand some men need to feel more involved, but usually a medical practice will concern themselves with the primary patient - not just fertility clinics, but all medical facilities. Even if the issue is MF, the primary patient is the one who they are conducting the bulk of the medical procedures on.

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I agree, as I mentioned earlier, that clinics will encounter a range of reactions from the fellas making it hard for them to know how to react to the male on a case by case basis.

I don't believe that it is reasonable to direct the vast majority of conversation to the female, just because she is the patient. IVF is supposed to be a joint thing, and including the male in the equation can provide big benefits to the female after the appointments and procedures where two recollections of various instructions or procedures can often be better than one. Whilst I am not the one with the condom covered probe between my splayed legs in stirrups, or the one having my uterine wall punctured by a needle, I still like to know what they are doing to my wife for my own sake and so that I am able to support her and understand what is going on. Knowledge is power.

You see, I think this is hard to quantify. I have spoken to DH about the collection of his sample, and while uncomfortable, he believes what he endured is not a patch on the indignities I went through on a regular basis. And I agree. Try having an internal u/s with 3 people in the room, and the sperm sample collection sounds great in comparison.This is not to say things couldn't be better for him, but in comparison, it didn't seem so bad to him when he thought of what I went through regularly.

Again I do believe there is always room for improvement, but not just in the management of the men, but in the management of all of us. Maybe I'm the sort of woman who, while I feel for my DH, feels like if he felt uninvolved, he would make more of an effort to involve himself (and he did) and if he felt unhappy with the facilities, he would say so. Emotional support provided by the clinic for women is pretty poor as it is, judging from the stories I've heard around the traps, so if the man receives even less, to me it would seem in proportion to how much he is viewed by the clinic as a patient compared with the woman.

ETA slyder, I agree with conversations being directed only to the woman is not on. If both man and woman are there, I would expect them not to ignore my husband, and to my clinic's credit, they never did. That is on par to tradespeople only talking to him despite the fact that I called them, I know what needs to be done and I'll be the one paying them. That's just manners.

Hi Everyone

My hubby is excited about the prospect of becoming a father and is also concerned about my health and makes gentle reminders from time to time about things that I should or shouldn't do. But at the same time he is dissassociated from the IVF process and does not retain information about the drugs or stages of treatment. We've also had the conversation re: childbirth - he doesn't want to be there. Of course we had an argument about it but he sees it as 'women's business' and would be outside the delivery room anyway.

I think he feels on the outside of this whole process that somehow apart from his 'production room' contribution he is not involved. Its kind of like having a party but not being invited. He openly and proudly tells friends that we have started the IVF process but I don't know how to make him feel reassured or more involved?????? ANY SUGGESTIONS?????

Production Room Experience: (sample for analysis). Hubby went into production room - said there were porn dvds catering for all tastes including bi. He was too afraid to put a DVD on in case he got the wrong one and that it had the reverse effect. Also after he produced his sample realised that he had left the door open .. just a little bit. OMG!!! ... anyway he told me a couple of days later .. we had a great belly laugh about it.

My DH went to a course Thurs and Friday and part of it required him to give an impromptu presentation on something he's passionate about, and the other was to be a prepared presentation. He gave his impromptu one on IVF and his POV on our journey. I saw his notes and I have to admit, he knows a lot more about it than I ever gave him credit for. He remembers the names of the drugs, dates and times, what happened and how he felt. I asked him again if he ever felt left out of the process and he said he (unlike me) could get as involved or be as removed as he wanted, and so his level of involvement had as much to do with him (or more) as the clinic.

I remember feeling lost and directionless when I first started IVF, and remember how much I depended on the clinic to lead me in those early days. As a woman I was lucky that I pretty much had the clinic's undivided attention and my own determination to learn more about my treatment meant that I eventually managed to fill in the blanks that the clinic left. For the man, I imagine it's a little more difficult - all the info is fed to the woman and the man comes from a point further back to learn as much as his partner would learn. But the info provided by the clinic is usually a fraction of what there is to know. I see someone like slyder on BB learning all he can about IVF and I think if more men took that sort of initiative, they would feel more involved. Yes the clinic can play a part in making things better, but to truly feel a part of it takes the kind of immersion into the subject that many men don't undertake.

In my case, DH reckons I talk about it enough to him for him to have absorbed a lot of it, and I recognise that his journey is always going to vary slightly from mine, in that he took in what he wanted and needed to at the time. So I still believe the onus is on each of us to decide the level at which we are involved, and to make it happen.

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In my case, DH reckons I talk about it enough to him for him to have absorbed a lot of it,

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This sounds like something my DH would say Sushee! With us having to drive 200klms to our FS appointments we had a lot of time to talk about what would happen at that appointment, how we were feeling etc. The 2 hour drive home was for talking about what had happened at the appointment and talking through what had happened etc.
There were times were I felt like I was talking TOO much about it all, (especially on the 1000klms trip home after pick up and transfer LOL) but DH took it all in. He did read every bit of paper in the information pack from the clinic though, and read through the puregon booklet to walk me through the injections. He also sat with me when we did our initial interview over the phone, though the clinic had requested he be involved.

Nic

I found this thread fasinating as DH and I really dont talk about it all that much, We too have to drive 120kms to appointments so it is usually discussed at the time but never until we have to be somewhere. DH gets very embarassed about the donation part of it so we dont talk or laugh about it, he knows it is something that needs to be done but not to be discussed with anyone.I just ask if it has been done and he nods.
DH asked me this morning why the puregon pen was back in the fridge, I had to tell him I'd been jabbing for days, he laughed and said so when is the account going to arrive.
It was only years later that we had friends that were also doing IVF with the same clinic, one night at a dinner party our friends husband (who felt very easy at discussing these matters) nudged DH and wanted a conversation on the donation room. I could see DH getting more and more uncomfortable THAT is the part that he hates. He thinks it is bad enough that we need a team to fall pregnant , but we do because the "want" out weighs all the embarassement.
Bec

Masturbatorium!!! I can't wait to tell DH that one.

He is always referring to his 2x2 cubicle. He dealt with it all quite well, but his first experience was a shocker.

When I first went to my gp to get things checked out, she sent DH for a sample just to rule out MF issues. The clinic was in an old house next to a hospital and commercial offices, and when he walked in all the nurses and female staff were obviously trying to make him feel comfortable by greeting him by his first name straight up and calling out to him from their kitchen and stuff as he walked down the hallway. They led him into the bathroom (just like a bathroom at your nan and pops place he reckons) and then told him when he was done to take his paper bag out the backdoor, across teh back yard and through a HOLE IN THE FENCE into the labs behind the house. He felt like such a devo. And to make matters worse....no 'reading material' supplied at all. Poor bugger.

He wasn't very happy when only a month later our newly acquired FS sent him for another one coz he didn't trust the first one. But his experiences with our clinic have been an improvement on his first.

Can't say I know what they call the little room though. I don't think it has a name! I do know that it faces another doctors reception room which has clear doors. That freaked DH out a bit, but he soldiered on.

As for how he is treated by the clinic staff....wonderful. He and our FS stuck up a pretty good relationship and were always jabbering on about fishing etc, to the point where I would be lying on the table, legs assunder, wondering when anyone was going to realise I was even there :lol:

And when I had to go back to the same hospital for surgery a few months after DS was born, DH took him up to see the girls and ended up feeding him in their staff room and chatting to them all. Did that on two occassions, and they always knew who he was and were always very interested (wonder if it was the fire brigade uniform??? Ahhhhhh, now the penny drops! Haha).

There were times when he felt that it was more all about me than him, and not about us as a couple, but they were few and far between, and always when he was feeling a bit touchy about the whole experience.

They are definately as much a part of the whole experience as we are and should be treated accordingly.

A suggestion for those worried about (or with DHs worried about) sounds outside the "sample room" or whatever you want to call it... Aaron took my ipod in with him so there was no way he'd hear anything going on outside.

belle333 - i'm glad that i'm not the only one that has a dh that does not want to be there for childbirth - but still wants to be a father and is an active participant in IVF. we have had an argument about it, and only after a glass or two of wine did the truth come out - he is terrified of what is going to happen to me. He has this fear that I might die giving birth, and that as we have made a rational choice about doing IVF (rather than just falling pg by accident), that it would be his fault as we could have made the decision not gone through the process, therefor not got pg and therefore I would not die in childbirth. I think that his concern is made worse by the fact that we are doing this because of MFI. For him the involvement of IVF has taken the whole reproduction thing into the world of a rational decision, made worse with every appointment, every opportunity to pull out etc, and that just for him confirms that if anything goes wrong, he could have prevented it. Not a logical thought process, but prob a male thing.

sarah h - like the ipod suggestion!

An update - we are currently in the TWW and I think that this is the time that my dh has felt the most out of it so far. He made the comment on the way home that it has been the hardest bit as there is nothing to 'do', nothing to concentrate on and there was nothing he could do that would change or alter the outcome. Nothing any clinic can do about that : (