No fertilisation with ICSI

Hi,

I started my first stim cycle of IVF in April 07 - 4 eggs 3 embies. 1 fresh transfer, 2 FET - 3 BFN's. Second stim cycle Nov 07 - 3 eggs, no fertilisation. Further tests on my husband - normal. Cystic fibrosis test on both of us - negative. Third stim cycle using ICSI just ended - 3 eggs, no fertilisation. I am devastated that no fertilisation has happened for a second time, especially as ICSI was used this time. Yesterday I was told that all 3 eggs were mature, but then they didn't fertilise overnight. Has anyone else had no fertilisation with ICSI?

I just don't know where to go from here and at the moment my FS doesn't have any answers. I just can't understand how we could get fertilisation on all eggs in the first cycle and none for the second and third cycle. I have been considering trying another FS at the same clinic or even a different clinic - I am with Sydney IVF at the moment. Otherwise I'm not sure what else to try - I tried acupuncture before my second stim cycle and am worried this may have affected the outcome. I really don't want to think that this is the end of our journey.

Hi kazza

Sorry this isn't something that I have had happen to me, but I wanted to let you know that a friend of mine did a cycle that got 3 eggs, and using ICSI none of the eggs fertilised. They are between cycles, and I don't know what their plan is - but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone.

I'm new to this IVF journey, but have had plenty of experience with doctors in general and my experience is that if you're not 100% happy that a second opinion can be a marvelous thing to have.

Hang in there!

Tish
x

Hi Kazza
I am sorry to hear about your situation. I know it hurts as the same thing happened to me. In January I did a stim cycle and also got 3 eggs but none fertilised. (I didn't do ICSI). After this happened I talked with the nurses who said that "IF" we try another cycle they would look at trying to stimulated more egg production (so ie using higher doses of the drugs). I only have 1 ovary so I didn't expect wonderful numbers of eggs, but was still excited that I at least had 3. They could not give me any further ideas to try and help the fertilisation rate other than trying to increase the odds of one fertilising so (I am not sure of your own situation) maybe that might be something to discuss with the nurses and Doctor at your clinic. I would also think that the accupuncture couldn't do you any harm so try to stop thinking like that

I hope you are Ok and remember to look after yourself. And remember it is only the end of the road if you want it to be.

All the best

We had extremely low fert results on our 1st cycle (1 of 21 eggs) and i am terrified of it happening again in our next cycle.
I hope your doing ok...

I too had low fert rates on our first of 40 eggs none fertalised with ICSI, Second one was better thou. It is so disheartening to go thru all that we do to be slammed with this news. I hope your doctors come up with a solution to improve fertalisation.
Bec

I am not sure of the details, but I know some do ICSI with a polar light or something to better guide the sperm without damaging the egg. I'll try to find more info and post again later...

Tish, Racey, Blizzy, Bec and Baby Bliss,

Thank you so much for your replies. I felt awful when I found out on Thursday and had no hope, but feel a lot better after reading your responses.

I don't feel I can sit around waiting and doing nothing, so I have decided I am going to get a second opinion because I haven't been happy with my FS for a while - I just can't decide whether to see another more experienced FS at Sydney IVF (Mark Bowman) or to go straight over to IVF Australia.

I am booked in to see a doctor who uses natural therapies to treat infertility and am also seeing a counsellor this week.

Tish, I wish you the best of luck and thank you for your advice about getting a second opinion.

Racey, thanks, I will discuss with the FS I see about stimulating more egg production and if there is anything to be done to help the fertility rate.

Blizzy, I'm sorry you low fert rates on your first cycle. I wish you the best of luck with your next cycle.

Bec, thanks, and I wish you the best of luck with your test.

Baby Bliss, if you find out I would be interested to know about the extra thing they do with ICSI to better guide the sperm into the egg. Good luck with your ICSI cycle in March.

Kazza

kazza - butterfly warrior had her eggs fertilised with ICSI using a polscope on her last cycle, and got better fertilisation results than her first with straight icsi - apparentluy what the polscope does is allow the embryologist to see the genetic material within the egg and ensure that the sperm is injected into a different area of the egg. most of us have our genetic material in one area of the egg but some are a little different, so straight icsi doesn't work so well. the quantity of BW's fert eggs that made it to blastocyte was about double on the second attempt....

i'm not sure which clinic she's with in Sydney - but if you get a chance maybe have a squiz at her TTC journal - it might have some more info

good luck in moving forward

BG

BG, thanks so much for the info re the polscope, it's something else I can ask the FS when I see them. I will also look at BW's TTC journal.

Good luck in your TTC journey.

Kazza

I had a bit of a look. Its called a PolScope.

It is used to manipulate the egg during ICSI to avoid hitting the 'spindle' with the sperm. There is evidence that fragmented etc embryos might be the result of damage to the spindle during ICSI.

It is mentioned on the IVF Australia site (for an extra $350).

Try googling PolScope and ICSI and seeing what comes up. Hope that helps!

Hi,just new to this forum.. just reading about your history kazza with icsi.. just wondering if you could tell me how many eggs fertislised the 4th and 5th time around with isci... i need some hope.. we had our first ivf attempt with isci and no eggs fertislised at all.. i am stimming again for our second attempt.. and i am very nervous that it will happen again...
any help would be very much appreciated...
shelly

Hi Shelly

Firstly, welcome to BB.

I can't tell you what Kazza's results were by cycle but she did have a little girl recently.

ICSI technology has improved a lot in the last couple of years (these initial posts are a couple of years old now) so I think that things are looking up for you.

It is always hard but the first stimulation cycle is always a bit of an adventure into the unknown not only for you but for your doctors as well. There is no way of knowing beforehand how you will respond to the drugs, what quality your eggs will be etc. So please don't get disheartened. The chances are that you will have better results this time as they will have been able to tweak your drug regime to hopefully get better results.

Hope that this helps a little.

hi there, thankyou for your reply.. i have given me some hope...i really do hope that at least one of my eggs fertilise this time around... they have given me the new drug luveris as well as more of a dose of gonal f ... they will also inject calcium into egg when they do the isci... i will totally shattered if they dont fertilise again... that wait from the friday ( egg collection) until the next day when they ring to tell me if they have fertilised will be the most stressfull thing i will experience i think... fingers crossed that at least one does fertilise...
thanks
shelly x

Hi Shelly,

I totally understand what it is like and how hard it is waiting until the day after the collection, but please don't give up hope and don't be disheartened (I know easier said that done!).

My 4th and 5th cycles were different from the other cycles in that they tried a short cycle as opposed to a long cycle and used different drugs which seemed to work better for me. I can't remember how many eggs initially fertilised on the 4th and 5th cycles, but I only had 2 make it to blastocyst transfer on the 5th cycle, and one of those resulted in a BFP! My daughter was born 6 weeks ago. Muppity is right, they can't tell exactly how you are going to respond to the drugs, etc the first time.

I'll have my fingers crossed for you and send you all the very best for your collection on Friday. Let me know how you go.

Take care.

Kazza

thankyou for your reply... i will be a nervous wreck waiting for the p hone call... can you tell me please about the short cycle?? how does it differ to the normal cycle and also what drugs they used on you for the 4th and 5th cycle..
thankyou
shelly

Hi Shelly,

I can't remember what drugs I took for the 4th and 5th cycle will look up my papers and let you know. With my first cycles they got me to take the pill first before starting the stimulating injections, but with the short cycle I just went straight onto the stimulating injections.

I know it's hard but try to keep busy or do something to take your mind off thinking about and waiting for the phone call. I remember going out for a long drive with my husband, it didn't fully take my mind off it but I found it helped a bit.

Good luck for today and tomorrow.

Kazza

Hi girls...
well i had my egg retrievel yesterday..for my second ivf, icsi cyle..after having no eggs fertilise the first time, i must say i was very anxious... anyway, retrievel went well... had 16 eggs removed.. now just had to wait until the dreaded phone call today to see IF and how many fertilised.. very nervous wait!! hate it..
anyway, just got the call... out of the 16 eggs, 9 were mature..and only 5 fertilised...
i am very happy in myself because of what happended last time... my question is, do you think that is a good number??? good chance that i will have something to transfer and maybe freeze??
need inspirations girls...
thanks heaps
shelly

Hi Shelly,

Great result - I'm so happy your cycle went much better this time and I think 5 eggs fertilising is great - remember it's quality not quantity that matters. I'll have my fingers crossed for you.

Take care.

Kazza02

Hi Shelly,
I just wanted to say congrats on your fertilisation - 5 is great!
Just to add to the thread: for us, for my last stim cycle (my second) I had 17 eggs, 15 mature, and 0 fert. Getting the news was just horrible. No real answers either. Next time, we'll try lower doses of stims & ICSI (though apparently it's not a sperm problem at all). Fingers crossed for you! Let us know how it goes.
Kazza02, so lovely to hear about your little girl.
WW
x

thanks Worrywart for your well wishes... day three today and just got news that 1 is 9cells, three are 8 cells and i is 7 cells.. so i just keep praying that they keep growing strong and healthy...
shelly x
congrats on your little girl too Kazza... very special indeed..

Hi Shelly,

That is great news, they sound strong and healthy, will be praying that they keep on growing for you. Keep us updated, would love to hear how you go.

Kazza02

Hi,
That's a great result and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
We just finished our first ICSI stim cycle and I'm a little down with our results. :cry:
I had 32 follicles developing so thought I was going to get heaps of embryos. But with EPU we only got 10 eggs, only 5 of which were mature enough. Three fertilized, one is ccurreltly on board and one survived for freezing.
DH and I thought we'd get a much better result than this. Anyway, now we're hoping that this little one sticks.
The worst part is probably not knowing why things haven't gone as you'd hoped and most of the time the doctors don't seem to be able to give clear answers because they don't know either.
Best of luck again- I hope to hear good news from you.

Hi maggi and thanks for the reply... my first attempt we had heaps of follicles on the u/s.. but only got 8 egg. Only one was mature at the time and two matured a bit later...they were fertilised with icsi but none fertilised... i was devastated...
so we tried again... had about the same amount of follicles on the u/s... but we did use more of the gonal F and i used luveris...at $165 a needle and i needed 12 of them...not cheap... but it seemed to do the trick..as we got 16 eggs removed and 9 were mature... i was over the moon...anyway, we did the icsi again and only 5 fertilised.. much better than first time but still not great.. it did give me some hope.. rang the scientist every day to see how the little embryo's were going.. they were going really strong for the first 3 days... went in for my 5 day transfer and none were at the blastocyst stage...all really slow growing, so i had the best looking morula transfer... went home and rested, didnt really know what to think...rang the scientists the next day to see how many were frozen...NONE...none made it to blastocyst stage..
my blood test is tommorrow but i got AF on friday, when i was due... so the little morula must not have arrested the same as the others..
SO, we will try once again.. i was very emotional this time around.. not at all excited like i was the first time... such a stressful and anxious time for me.. and i know i wil be worst the next time we do it...
take care
shelly

Shelly,
I will be praying for a miracle for you- perhaps the blood test will tell another story.:pray: