SO frustrated with day sleeps :(

I have been working on self-settling for a few weeks now & I'm getting so frustrated!!! Some day sleeps, DS will go for 2 hours & I won't hear a peep out of him. But most day sleeps, he wakes after one sleep cycle & won't go back to sleep (or will - but with a HUGE amount of help from me).

The problem is, he will only stay up for 1 hour - 1.5 hours between sleeps (regardless of how long the sleep is). So, if he sleeps for 45mins, I've got over an hour to fill in until the next feed (if I feed 3 hourly). What do I do with him for this time??

Also, I have been trying to follow a feed, play, sleep cycle - but if he won't sleep up until the next feed, it becomes a feed-play-sleep-play cycle - but then, when he starts to get cranky, how do I tell whether he is hungry, or tired??

Hi Ezz, :hug: I feel your frustration. I went through that phase recently and we still have our days. First up you are doing a great job persevering, it really will pay off. And if he is doing some two hour naps occasionally I have to say "hooray!" for you!! Your bub sounds very normal.

My DS was doing the same thing and I ended up feeding him too early because I didn't know what else to do with him, but he started getting reflux from too much in his tummy. Eventually I just did what I could to get my DS to go back to sleep after one cycle, I would pat him or pick him up and rock him back to sleep and put him back down. It was HARD work for a few weeks, but now (unless he is sick or we are having a "bad" day) he sleeps through almost all of his 40 minute cycles with no resettling required!

Some other things you could try to get him to go back to sleep between feeds is to go for a walk and push him in his pram or wear him in a sling/baby carrier. Eventually he will work out how to self-settle after that first cycle.

Keep doing what you are doing, I PROMISE one day it will all pay off (and it that day isn't far away ;)).

Give yourself a pat on the back mate, my DS is 6 1/2 months and we are still working on self settling :rolleyes: so with a 3 month old I think you are doing fab.

The 45 min sleeps during the day are a killer. How is bub when he wakes? Happy and ready to play or sleepy and still obviously tired. If bub is happy then don't try to force sleep but if bub is still giving tired signs I would try to help him resettle. Impossible sometimes I know but worth a try.

1 to 1.5 hours of awake time is plenty for his age, it might even be too much. Usually one hour (including the feed) is as much as they can handle before they get tired. All babies are different though so your bub might be more 'awake' than others. It may mean that he is having two short sleeps in the 3 hour cycle.

The best way I can tell if DS was tired at 3 months was his eyes. He got really red eyebrows and would just stare and wouldn't fix gaze on me. As he has gotten older he is more obvious and now rubs his eyes, yawns but in the early days it took a lot of just watching him to figure out his signs.

As I said you are doing a fab job.

HTH
Spring

It was a few months before we actually had a feed play sleep cycle. DD was a real booby girl and so she used to often like feeding to sleep. So I'm not much help with distinguishing between tired and hungry cause I'd put her on the boob for both. I guess you could see how long since his last feed and how well he fed for it and how long he has been awake for.

I sort of just went with the flow til she fell into a pattern on her own. I don't think I really noticed a routine til she was about 6 months.

The other prob we had was she was a cat napper, only would have 30-45 min naps during the daybut as she was happy (generally) in her awake time it must've been all she needed.

I suggest just going with the flow, if he is tired put him down if he's happy being awake so be it. Eventually he will find his own pattern.

My bub (5mths) is like Spring Angel's... he gets really red eyebrows when he's tired. The first three months I found myself holding him when he was asleep, b/c he'd wake and not self settle. Which meant needing a lot of patience.. I was so frustrated too ;)

However at 5mths his naps are longer.. I usually walk/rock him to sleep for 5-10mins then put him down.. So we are still working on self settling too. Sometimes he will only sleep for half an hour though, still not too much of a routine, but he is a lot better.

Yr doing great so hang in there!

Trish - He will sleep in the HAB (for up to 2 hours) - but he's so heavy (over 8kg) - I can't wear him all day. He won't sleep in the pram either (I went walking for an hour yesterday to get him to sleep - and he woke up as soon as I got home & stopped walking!). Once he's woken up, he will only sleep in my arms, or in the HAB :rolleyes:
I don't want to just feed him again, because he's already putting on so much weight. He would just eat all day if I offered it! :lol:

Spring Angel - I hadn't thought of doing 2 shorter sleeps - I'm just trying it now! He woke after 45 mins & wouldn't settle (after 20 mins of trying) so I got him up for a while, until he got cranky - then put him to bed. He's having a bit of a grizzle - not sure whether he will go back to sleep or not - guess I'll find out shortly!

Ezz: we have been surviving on two short sleeps here. Sometimes DS is just up for 20 mins or so and then back to sleep. Not the best way to do it I admit, but it works for us.

Hope your little man settles.

Spring

Ezz - Loren has just started to extend her morning sleep now (between 1 and 2 hours) and most other sleeps are shorter(between 45mins - and 1 hour). To be honest we are not in a set routine yet but I have noticed that Loren will do the to 2 short sleep thing at times as well.

I try to extend Loren's sleeps but if she wakes up really alert after a short sleep I just get her up, change her nappy, put her in the bouncer, give her a drink of water and wait for the next tired period (usually within 1 hour of waking) and then I put her back to bed. I found trying to resettle via rocking, bouncing, patting etc very exhausting especially if it takes more than 10mins. In the end getting bub up takes pretty much the same time and Loren tends to self settle better when she is really ready to sleep.

Keep going with the Feed, Play and Sleep idea but try and be flexible with it. The whole idea of feed, play and sleep is not to get bub used to feeding to sleep. So therefore it is ok to feed, play, sleep, play, and sleep iykwim.

Another tip: try and extend only one of bub's daytime sleeps not all of them. This is what I have done with Loren and it seems to have worked. As mentioned before she now has a longer morning nap, our next step is to try and extend an afternoon nap. At the moment I am really happy if Loren has the one big sleep and the rest of the day I relax and take her lead.

good luck

I hadn't noticed the red eyebrows before, but today I was watching for them :)

Well, the two short sleeps didn't work so well this afternoon :(. He ended up getting really tired and cranky (screaming) and I ended up patting him to sleep in my arms (where he slept for over an hour). I think it was my own fault yesterday though - I waited too long to put him to bed when he was tired (because I wanted to finish my lunch with my friends!).

Bek - Thanks for your comment about just aiming for one long sleep each day - the info from Karitane says that he should be sleeping 3 x 2 hour day sleeps - which just stresses me out! I guess I should lower my expectations for now! (he does do 1 x 2 hour nap most days - usually in the middle of the day).

Sounds like he's just put himself back to sleep again (after a feed)... I'm off to bed!

Ezz - I don't know many babies who actually do 3 x 2 hour naps a day! I let things like that stress me out too until I realised my bub just doesn't fit into that "square"! Once I accepted it I relaxed and it all got a bit easier.

Definitely watch for those tired signs, it is a much easier to get your baby to sleep well if he isn't over tired. Watch for jerky movements (my DS would start kicking his legs jerkily), grizzling and yawns (and the red eyebrows if your bub does it too!). As soon as he shows tiredness put him straight to bed. Don't worry that you got him back to sleep in your arms, at least he went back to sleep! He will eventually get it.

You're doing a great job!

I'm glad I never was told bout the 3 2hr sleeps I think I'd stress too cause my DD did nothing even close to that!

The other thing I thought of is a bouncer if you have one. DD used to have alot day sleeps in one cause I'd just sit on the couch and relax and rock her with my foot til she went to sleep.

3 x 2 hours sleeps, unheard of here.

We are lucky to get one 1.5 hour sleep. So I agree with the others, just go with the flow and follow bubs lead.

Spring

Ezz, I had a little chuckle as my DD (who shares a b/day with your DS) does the exact same thing and I am puzzled too! She even does the 'wake from the pram when you walk in the front door' bit as well. Anyway, waking out of her sleep is an issue but I find that (sometimes) after she wakes at 45mins and I leave her 10mins to see if she will self-settle, she will and mostly not. When she continues grizzling/full crying I pick her up for cuddles, stay in the room holding her over the shoulder (not cradle hold- she loves that to go to sleep but she is too heavy to walk to sleep) and shhhhing and patting, then I put her down. And funnily enough a few times she has gone back to sleep! When they wake at 45 they are still tired.If you have to get him up, keep him up for a short time only then back to bed (say 20 mins then start sleep routine). If I keep DD up to her next feed she is impossible (overtired) to get back to sleep. Also, I have found one hour up time is enough for her. Anymore and sleep is a big problem. Have you heard whether they grow out of waking out of the sleep cycle and if so when? Dd has been doing it for about 3-4 wks now.

I have just read Belle with the Bump's thread called Won't sleep longer than 30 mins and Bucca posts a link in it to a NZ site that talks about sleep cycle strategies. Worth a read!

Hi Ezz. We've spoken about all this before and Trish, Spring and I are 'sleep buddies' :lol: so anything they have to say, I completely agree with!!

But I just wanted to add this - I was where you are now about 6 weeks ago, and I was there for a loooooong time, I tried everything to get the boy to sleep. I resettled my brain out but guess what?? IT DOES WORK!!

He now does 3 sleeps a day of 1.5-2hours and I haven't had to resettle him during a sleep for weeks now :dance:

I have to admit, that 3x 2 hour sleep bit did my head in too but seriously, I don't know any baby that has slept that much during the day at this age. Maybe one or two big sleeps like that, but not all three.

While i was 'in it' I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel, I thought it would never end but I promise you, you're doing all the right things and he is going to 'get it' really, really soon. In my experience, they usually get it around 16-18 weeks, which seems like forever away probably, but when it happens, it's sooooooo great!!

Your hard work will pay off, don't give up!

PS The times I just couldn't get him to resettle we would do feed, play, sleep, play. Try not to move his feeds forward, keep them spaced out as they normally would be otherwise you might be feeding too often which can cause a whole other set of problems...

Ezz -I have been thinking about your post and remembered a sleep table that recommends how much sleep a bub needs at what age. I used this table with Sara and it seemed to work. The sleep lady says that if your bub needs for example 14 hours of sleep in a 24hour period and bub sleeps 10hours overnight then bub should need around 4 hours during the day.
I always used to count how many hours bub slept for then I knew roughly how much sleep she would have during that day.

If you want the table pm me your email add and I'll pass it on.

Hi Ezz,
My boy is close to 5 and a half months and he still only sleeps 30 mins. I know he can settle himself as he has done this a couple of times, but he seems to choose when and where he does it. Most days it takes me an hour to get him to sleep through the kicking and screaming and then he only sleeps for 30-35 mins. It is a rare treat when I can re-settle him back to sleep, but it takes a lot of effort. I am so sick of people telling me to let him cry it out and it will solve all my problems. It gets me down most days as i am house bound cause he is grumpy all day due to his lack of sleep. I have read nearly every book under the sun, but nothing has helped... I do understand where you are coming from.....it is SO frustrating...
To answer your question, I think the hungry sign is when they dont stop crying and it just gets louder and louder till they get food...

hi, i'm glad to read this post, my DS is 10wks old and does also have trouble passing thru to the next sleep cycle so often his naps are only 30-45 mins, he will often have one nap a day between 1-2 hours usually closer to 1 hour though...and rarely longer than 2. i've been tracking his activity for just over a week now and in a 24-hr period he gets between 12-15.5 hours sleep...most often 14.25 hours. so i think he gets enough!

i think he's doing good at night, he often wakes only twice, sometimes more but he is no trouble at night, goes straight back to sleep without a fuss, we co-sleep :) but during the day it takes 5-15 mins of rocking/bouncing etc to get him to sleep and i'm scared to put him down in case he wakes. if he's already had a long nap then i might because he probably won't sleep long anyway. i dont mid holding him but DH might mind a little, although he hasn't said anything, because the housework doesnt get done as often.

i guess i'm just hoping he will outgrow the need to be held all the time while sleeping during the day??

also he always wakes with a squeal even when holding him... any ideas why?

Hi everyone
My ds (declan) is 10 weeks old and have developed a bad habit of putting him in the swing during the day to rock him to sleep. He can sleep for over an hour if we let him. I don't think it's a deep sleep because he still jumps if there is a loud noise or we bump him. He wakes up within a couple of minutes of me turning off the swing.

He seems to sleep fine during the night in the cot when we put him down half asleep and even the 2am feeds. He wakes up each time in the cot during the day. I try to leave him there to put himself to sleep, but after 15-20mins he is crying and screaming.

Should I just keep persevering with the cot during the day? I am worried that he will grow out of the swing soon and I won't know what to do.

Thanks guys
tsv girl

Hi,

I can't help thinking that the "feed-play-sleep" routine is the biggest cause of mother frustration in our society! Touted by experts, few mothers understant that this is an artificial artifice designed to make the life of health professionals and so called parenting experts easier. For babies it makes no sense - they have got no idea about what we are on about!
What to do when your baby is not a sleep? Read him a book (yes, even from birth! You will be amazed at how quickly they "catch on" and learn to love reading) Take him for a walk - preferably in a sling so they are in the middle of all the action. Feed him when he wants to be fed. My children all now at school, are encouraged to take fruit and vegetables and water to school and have it on their table so they can snack when they need to. This gives them the energy to think and learn. Our babies are learning at a rate they will never again experience - they are drinking in the world. Yet we want to deprive them of the nutrition they need for this - it makes no sense to me at all! When my blood sugar levels are low, I'm pretty grumpy! I think babies would be the same. Go to your ABA and mothers group meetings. Meet friends for a coffee. Put him in a position where he can see you cooking, cleaning etc. In my experience the frustration comes from having your back bent over a cot patting and rocking a baby who wants to go out and play! From what I understand, your little one is a good sleeper at night - I think you will find that there will be a payoff - and that may be less sleep during the day. I think if I were you I would be congratulating myself on what an interesting, social little bub you had - a perfectly adapted little human.
Warm Regards
Barb

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Hi everyone
My ds (declan) is 10 weeks old and have developed a bad habit of putting him in the swing during the day to rock him to sleep. He can sleep for over an hour if we let him. I don't think it's a deep sleep because he still jumps if there is a loud noise or we bump him. He wakes up within a couple of minutes of me turning off the swing.

He seems to sleep fine during the night in the cot when we put him down half asleep and even the 2am feeds. He wakes up each time in the cot during the day. I try to leave him there to put himself to sleep, but after 15-20mins he is crying and screaming.

Should I just keep persevering with the cot during the day? I am worried that he will grow out of the swing soon and I won't know what to do.

Thanks guys
tsv girl

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there is a fabulous child-related blog "Ask Moxie". She says, for the first 3 months, just get your baby to go to sleep any way you can... swing, car, whatever. Knowing how hard it is to get a newborn to sleep, I agree with her.
In a few weeks though, I suggest you keep trying with the cot. Every sleep, at least give him a chance to go to sleep in his cot. if he gets a bit upset, calm him, put him back in the cot. and so forth till you get fed up or you can tell it is not going to work. then go to swing.

I suggest this because of what my bub did.

from birth to 3 months, I had to rock him totally to sleep in my arms, and put him in his cot 100% asleep. Then from 3 months, I tried rocking him then putting him in his cot "sleepy awake" and he would fall asleep in his cot that way about 40% of the time, which was great.
But I stopped for a couple of weeks, and from then on, it was screaming when he even got close to the cot. the result of this can be seen in a thread I started,
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/comforted-sleeping-no-cry-sleep-solutions/64618-gentle-solutions-do-they-really-work.html
I put it down to the two weeks of never even trying to get him to self settle.

so by keeping on trying, and giving your bub the opportunity to try self settling, it is at least possible he will get it when he is ready.
If you don't try, it won't ever happen.

does that make sense?

you can read about the method I had to use to get back on track in that thread I've linked. I would much prefer to have avoided the problem.

BTW a friend lent me a book "lull-a-baby" which focuses on avoiding sleep problems in the first place, would be great for someone with a baby under 3 months.