Topping Up With formula???

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, I wasn't sure.

Just a question for anyone who has breastfed and topped up with formula. How did you go about it? How was it? Any problems with nipple confusion etc?

My boy has been constantly feeding since he came home and at night I'm finding it really hard to cope due to lack of sleep. I'm wanting to top up his midnight feed with formula to see if I can push back his 2 am feed a bit so I get a longer block of sleep. At the moment the longest block I've had since the birth has been 3 hours and that was the first night. I'm only getting about 5 hours a night. I hope by using the formula he will feel full for longer and thus sleep a little longer......that is the hope, I'm not sure if it will work or not. I really need more sleep and am getting a bit desperate :confused:

I would love to hear about other peopels experiences.

Hi Macca,

This is my experience only and others may have differing opinions - I started to top up DD with formula at about 7 weeks as she was putting on only small amounts of weight (was teetering on the bottom of the chart) and was incredibly unsettled (would not sleep until 3am and then only for 2 hours or so). It was a godsend for us! She settled right down and was only waking once per night (bliss!). She continued to take the breast and expressed bm so I felt we had the happiest combination possible. There was no "nipple confusion" and I am now convinced she was so unhappy because she was hungry! Is your bub putting on adequate amounts of weight?

I guess you need to be aware that bubs may take less breast milk if you start on formula. In my case bubs took both and was much happier (as were we). You need to look after yourself as well as your bub.

Good luck

Madeleine was formula fed from 2 weeks old and slept through from 6 weeks old so she went to bed at 9 or 10pm and would wake at about 5am, it was terrific!!

We've topped up some of Espen's feeds as he was losing weight and no longer had the strength to suck properly to bring down my milk. I'd only do it under the advice and monitoring of a lactation consultant/MCHN as if you do it it takes away the opportunity for your baby to stimulate your supply for more milk. If he is feeding constantly it could be the same problem I had as my little boy was trying to get more milk all the time... the problem was the constant sucking was wearing him out and making things even worse. A great tip I got from the LC was to feed then put him in the sling and get him off to a good sleep so he had the strength to feed well again when he woke up (rather than feed/nap/feed/nap for hours as I was doing).
We have pretty much only given him one bottle in the evenings- we did it after a feed when he just couldn't settle and appeared hungry. That way the time between me feeding him wasn't being too messed up so that my supply could still be boosted.

My son swapped between formula top ups and EBM with no problem for 4 weeks before he went on to formula. He didn't show pref for one or the other, but both were in the bottle.

Hi,
Nothing much prepares us for life with a new baby. It can be really hard coping with the demands and uncertanties. Your baby is very young, and is behaving very normally for a new baby. Babies need to feed at the breast between 8-12 times in 24 hours at this age. And, while our adult brains do a quick calculation that says "2-3 hourly" Often we find that it doesn't work that way with babies - they can often have a cluster of feeds in at one point in 24 hours. It can feel like you may never get off the couch again. And as you have experienced with your baby, they have another time of the day or night when they go for a longer period. 5 hours is fabulous at this age. A baby's tummy is just the size of his clenched fist at this age - they can't fit much of anything in - and it needs to be filled frequently. At this age, they have little concept of day or night. But, it gets better, usually sooner rather than later. One mother who had "done both" with two differnt children (ie breastfeeding and bottlefeeding) recently said to me "with breastfeeding it can be hard at the start, but it gets much, much easier. With bottlefeeding, it may be a little easier at the start, but the workload remains the same - it never gets easier."
Breastfeeding is important for mother and baby. If you give formula you need to know that there is a very real risk that it could be detrimental to your breastfeeding experience, and may result in premature weaning from the breast. There are lots of ways to help you get breastfeeding off to a better start if that is what you want.
Personal experience? I remember, with my first, feeling so, so tired. My sister said "just give him a bottle - he'll sleep better" I did as she suggested. He guzzled down the bottle as though he'd been starving. It knocked a big hole in my confidence - I felt that at least, though, I would get a good night's sleep. Two hours after than he woke up for another bottle.....2 hours after that, another. It didn't help him to sleep at all, and by that stage my breasts were full and very uncomfortable - I was probably on the verge of mastitis. I mistook his need to be with me for hunger. I didn't realise that the fact that he was gaining weight well (had regained his birthweight by 2 weeks) and the fact that he had plenty of wet and dirty nappies meant that he was getting plenty of milk.
There is no right or wrong in this - we all do what is best for our babies and ourselves. Get back to us if you want more information or support
Regards
B

Hi Macca

I just wanted to say that your son sounds totally normal to me. In those early weeks my DS seemed to be on the breast 24/7 I was beside myself with exhaustion and more tired then I think I can explain. He would do cluster feeds of about 4 hours and sometimes in the middle of the night. It seemed like I had just closed my eyes and he was hungry again. I remember sitting in my bed feeding him and crying my eyes out. Trust me when I say, it does get easier. Just realise that this frequent feeding is a stage and before long you will find that bub on his own accord settles into somewhat of a routine.

You sound like you have plenty of milk, don't doubt yourself, you are doing a fantastic job.

HTH
Spring

Thanks for sharing guys it is helpful to hear about what other people have done.

With regards to weight my boy has had no problem putting on weight. His problem is that he can't seem to get enough milk to meet his demands. The Lactation consultant we saw when I was in hospital said he would feed more when he was having a growth spurt but he has been growing at a rapid rate since birth. He was 9 , 12 at birth (4440 kg) as has put on the 10% he lost plus more since then.

I though I would use the formula as a top up after a 15 -20 min breast feed late at night just so he gets that extra sense of feeling 'full'. I only want to use 1 bottle at night for that purpose and thought I could express in order to keep my milk up if need be. Im just at the point were I need more sleep. I wake up feeling as though I have had no sleep. It's really exhausting.

hey there
try to hang in there, having a baby is EXHAUSTING, and nothing can prepare you for it, its exhausting beyond belief, but it does get easier..... if i were you i would write off the next few weeks and try to mentally prepare yourself to be completely sleep deprived and all over the place, do not focus on anything except yourself and your baby, let the housework go, take help from others, get them to cook you meals or help with the washing, get as much rest as humanly possible and give your baby as much hugs and snuggles as humanly possible, because you will never ever get this time back, not that you want the sleep deprivation back, but im talking about this beautiful newborn time that goes by in an instant...

for what its worth i put my dd onto formula at 3 months out of sheer desperation, i was willing to try ANYTHING to get some sleep, it didn't help at all... her sleep or lack thereof i think was a result of reflux, which eventually disappeared... anyways what im saying is, don't think of formula as a miracle cure for more sleep, as sometimes it just doesn't work, and i would give anything to have persevered with the breast feeding if i had my time over again... it can often start from a top up here or there and then suddenly bottle feeding seems easier than breast feeding then before you know it your supply has dwindled and your baby prefers the teat to the well errrr tit! it can be a downwards spiral.... that said im sure many people do manage to top up feed successfully, just be aware that it can easily go one way or the other.

hang in there and just repeat in your head that it is going to get easier, and babies aren't meant to be good at sleeping, its something they learn, some more faster than others... i never thought i would have a child that goes down at 7.30pm and wakes at 6.30am with no feeds, but here i am with a 12 month old that does just that, and has done from about 10 months.... i never in a million years thought it would happen.... you might think 10 months good lord that is ages away i will not survive that long without sleep, but trust me, you will, and when you look back you can't believe how fast it went, even though at the time it felt like hell on earth... and i reckon your body starts to adjust and get used to the new demands too.... i learnt to cope on 4 hours sleep, didn't cope very well, but coped nevertheless...

the first few months is all about surival, don't have too many high expectations, just resign yourself to being a new mum with a new gorgeous bubby and you are both finding your feet.

sorry for long post, i just remember being in the same situation looking for a solution to something that wasn't necessarily wrong or broken, sleep is an acquired skill for bubs and you can do your head in trying everything under the sun to make them sleep, you can exhaust yourself being preoccupied with sleep! in the end alot of the times it doesn't matter what you do, babies are babies, so just try to enjoy yours and you will in time be getting some great solid blocks of sleep that you will relish, just not yet... xx

You poor thing... sleep is sacred and it's terrible feeling so tired. Can your partner take him out just after a feed so the house is quiet for a bit and you get a good solid sleep, even if ony short? You might also need to get your iron levels checked- I did and they were low so I'm taking iron now. If you're that tired it could be something more.

You sound like you're doing an amazing job!

Macca, you have been given some good advice. The first 6 - 12 weeks particularly with a new baby are very, very hard and no-one really tells you that before hand. In many cases babies start sleeping for a longer period (often not all night, but for a few hours) around 6 - 12 weeks. So things are likely to improve for you really soon.

I have also found that the sleeping pattern in the first weeks does not indicate what sort of sleeper they will be. My first son slept through from 6 weeks but then became a shocking sleeper at around 7 months. My second son gave us a real shock - he didn't sleep well at all day or night as a nb. But around the 12 week mark he started to settle and then he became a great sleeper. He didn't sleep through regularly until 12 months, but he mostly only woke once, had a quick bf then we both fell straight back to sleep.

Whether or not you top up is totally your decision. My advice would be to wait a couple of weeks to see if things improve, because introducing formula, even one top up, can be the beginning of the end for bfing.

I hope you are able to get more sleep soon. You will get through this and you will be so amazed at what you are capable of. Take care hun, we are all here for you.

HI,
It sounds like you are doing a beautiful job with your little one - although it seems hard to see it that way when you are in the middle of it.
Whatever is going on, I don't think he is hungry. Has anyone explained to you newborn behaviours? Newborns come out absolutely hardwired to suck. A baby who can't suck is a baby in a lot of trouble. Sucking is comfort, food, eases tummy aches and a whole lot more. They love it. To us, it looks like "they are hungry again!" and we wonder how we can ever fill them up or make enough milk. When mums have one of these perfectly adapted babies who are thriving but wanting to suck all day they find that there are some simple tips that can help things a lot. Many mothers find a dummy, used after a feed, to give baby the sucking he needs to help him go to sleep is invaluable. Also, there is an art to knowing when they have had enough. Some of these babies would literally feed all day, sucking, snoozing, sucking, snoozing - what a life! But it can be tough on the mum. Women often find that if they give their baby one breast for 20 mins or so baby will be pretty much asleep. Gently put your finger in the corner of his mouth to break suction and take him off. he will probably make a grab for the breast, and even whimper as if to say "No, mum honestly, I'm still hungry!" So we put them back, and they continue. Instead, gently put him up on your shoulder and give him a cuddle - he'll go back to sleep. You may want to change his nappy, burp him, and if he wakes up a bit, offer the other side. He may not take the other side - one may fill him up at this age - Take him off after 20 mins or so, and once again, cuddle him until he is in a deep sleep - you should be able to gently put him down. You will feel a lot better if you can get up and do a few things.
Let us know how you go
Warm Regards
Barb

Thankyou for the support everyone. I have decided to hold off a bit for now with the formula and express a bit more often. I do need more sleep but DH has offered to share the nigh feeds with me, even though he has to go back to work soon. I think I will see how this goes and if it means i can get a bit of shut eye. Thanks again all it helps knowing there are others out there.

Best of luck Macca.

Macca hon - well done for getting this far and fighting on.

I was told my the hospital lacto to express an hour after each feed to get enough 'together' for a night time bottle so I could get a 5 - 6 hour block of sleep. I did this for 2 weeks while Mateauz was in hospital but found it very hard to continue at home (I have 4 children). We now give Mateauz a top up feed of 180ml of formula at 7pm ish every night and he sleeps through but most importantly is full. I BF him full time other then that and I honestly feel guilty that I feed him that bottle.

Let us know how you go on your journey and again - well done, your truely a wonderful mum

Macca, it sounds like you're doing a great job hun. It is so hard in those early days, you can't imagine what you would give to have more than 2 consecutive hours of sleep! It does get better, I promise ;)

In my experience, formula did not help my DS to sleep. In fact using formula greatly added to our woes, in many different ways. Thank goodness we were able to keep BFing, if not exclusively, it was our saving grace. If you want more info, I'm happy to give it, but I won't ramble on unless you're interested :)

Don't kill yourself expressing, it really just creates a whole lot more work for us......expressing, feeding from a bottle, sterilising etc etc. Although tiring, much easier to just feed from the boob in the first place! Obviously though, if you're really struggling, getting DH to do the odd feed during the night could be really helpful. And make sure you sleep when you can during the day, it makes all the difference, truly! Good luck :)

Janie, this is not made to offend you in any way but my DD has been formula fed and that has been "our saving grace!"

All babies are different as my DD has slept through from 6 weeks and she has been fully formula fed.

I praise any ladies that can breastfeed as it was not possible for us! But FF is no stress to us at all.

Thanks Maz for your support, I read your post tonight and really felt for you. I hope your able to work it out.

Janie i would be interested in hearing more about your experience with formula top up. you mentioned that it was more trouble then it was worth for you.

Bindy, no offense taken whatsoever! I understand that for some, formula is a saving grace. I'm glad you and your DD are happy :)

Macca, my DS was prem and we were instructed to top him up from birth. He was never very 'good' at putting on weight anyway, so we topped up alot, and of course my supply suffered. The top ups were often EBM in the early days, it wasn't until he was about 4 months that they were almost all formula. So, because he was topped up with both, I could really see the difference between the two. The amounts and frequency varied, sometimes it was one a day, sometimes after every BF.

Formula has NEVER helped him to sleep. In fact, as a littlie, he slept alot better when his top ups were EBM. Formula is more difficult for their little tummies to digest, so I'm guessing that's why.

Formula made his reflux sooo much worse. In fact, the reflux was barely noticable until he was having more formula.

And lastly, bottles (whatever was in them) almost caused us to give up BFing totally. We battled breast refusal for two months because DS had developed a preference for the bottle. I understand that some babies can switch between the breast and bottle with ease, but not my DS. He does now, quite happily, but he's old enough to know the difference, and knows that he loves BF now (fortunately :D).

You have to do what's right for you and your baby, but please make it an informed decision. I would hate for you to start topping up, only to find that it doesn't help, and in fact makes your BFing relationship difficult. Sometimes a bit of short term pain is worth it for the long term gain :) Easier said than done though, I know, especially at 2am ;) Hang in there, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

I started topping up DS with formula after about two months when BF was already established. I didn't have any issues with breast refusal thankfully. For me, I was pretty much out of stock by the evening feed when DS would be getting ready for bed. And the fact that DS would constantly want to suck, to cluster feeds, and a partner who was complaining about the amount of time I spent on the couch and my motivation to do anything else made feeding DS a pretty demanding experience from a psychological point of view. I'm glad I did what I did. If I hadn't, I really think that I would have packed it in and stopped BFing. And now that I know that DS will happily BF as well as take formula I feel like I am empowered to BF in that it is a conscious choice not an obligation. For the record I have topped up with soy formula which has been working wonders for DS. I also conitnue to express to keep my supply up.

Sounds like you're doing a great job soon2be! Well done, I'm glad it's working well for you :)