ADD/ADHD Your opinion on medicating - long

Just to start I know alot of people don't agree with this, but I'm desperate.

We've been having problems with my 6 year old for about 2 1/2 to 3 years now.
It has been alot worse than ever before since about the middle of last year.
She has always been fairly full on & strong willed & a bit pig headed, but the last 12 months have been hell.

I totally understand that sisters are supposed to fight all the time & blame eachother for things. It all started with Jazmyne drawing on walls or tipping out full buttles of shampoo or something & kinda putting the blame on Bri. If I caught her doing it she would say 'But Bri was doing it first!'.
OK, Bri was just 2 when this all got unmanageable. There's a big difference between knowing right from wrong in a 2 year old & a 5 year old.
Then she started to get physicaly violent with Bri. Hitting, kicking, biting, pushing, pushing or pulling her off things.
Around the same time started always with out fail arguing with me everytime she got the chance. If she got in trouble was sent to her room where she would scream at me & throw things around & kick the walls etc. Always has to have the last word & will fight to the end.
To start with I was sending her to her room. Then, yes I did smack for a while. Lately I've done everything from time out, to smacking, to sending her to bed, to ignoring her.
It has escelated & I'm feeling like I can't handle it anymore.
I've lost it a few times, but never really physically hurt her.
Admittedly I have thought about it.
I did grab her by the shoulders once, but changed my mind & as I let go of her I pushed her & she hit her head on the wall.
I felt horrible & went straight to my room & cried. It didn't really hurt her, but when she found out I was crying she started screaming that it hurt so I would feel bad.
She is now violent towards her cousin as well - something I thought she would NEVER do.
DH just thinks she needs more dicipline. So I try to keep him out of it, coz he's very much like her & loses control too easy. He does smack her. Not to the point of abuse mind you. Always with his hand & on the bum, but I hate it when he does it. If she's pushed to far he will smack 2 or 3 times &even though it's not really enough to hurt her, she screams like she is getting beaten up. She screams like that just from being sent to her room by the way. She has gone in there screaming HELP! before coz she was yelling & I walked in there.
I mean screaming for the attention. I think she thinks if she screams enough we will forget about what she's done wrong & sympithise with her. With the screaming I am honeslty waiting for the neighbours to ring DOCs. I've explained this to her, but it doesn't make a difference.
Yesterday she stood on the trampoline screaming coz I told her it was time to come inside. She didn't want to yet, but it was getting cold & I wanted to close the house up & put the heaters on. She started so I said OK & shut the door anyway. 15 minutes later she was still screaming, so I went & got her - didn't say anything to her & carried her inside.
She also constantly throws tantrums if she doen't get something she wants.
She got a new school bag for her bday 8 weeks ago. Dora bag.
Bri just started preschool, so I got her a bag yesterday. Jazmyne chucked a fit! Going on about it being better.It was a 2 bag set. A suitcase thing with a smaller backpack. I explained that Bri was too small to have a big bag like hers, & that they were the only smaller bags they had. Didn't help, so to avoid even more of a scene I told her I'd get her one next time. I wouldn't normally do that by the way.

I'm feeling different towards her. I still love her, but it's not the same as I used to. My mum has offered to take her during holidays & any time I need a break, but I can't do that. If I send her away, even just for a week, I feel like I'm giving away my baby. As hard as it is I can't give up on her. She's mine. I'm not walking away no matter how tempting it is.

We've been seeing a psycologist to try to sort it all out. At the last visit he said he was going to organise some assesments for ADD/ADHD, ODD (Oppisitional Defiance Disorder) & Developemental learning delays. He did mention medication for ADD if thats a problem.

She does have a healthy diet with not much sugar. If I didn't feel the way I towards her & if she wasn't having probs at school, I wouldn't medicate. But her problems are interfering with her whole life. At home, at school & socially.

I just want to love her like I should again. Not feel like she's my problem so I gotta deal with her.

SIL has said a few times that she's lucky she's not her kid, she wouldn't be able to handle it. This behavior is constant. Constant fighting between her & Bri, or doing something she knows is wrong ag, drawing on walls or arguing with me about something.
I started a journal for the psyc at 4.15 yesterday & there are 8 things inthere & 3 pages full just from the 4 hours before she went to bed. Including tipping Bri off a beanbag coz she sat on the wrong one & chasing her with a screw driver.

To those of you who got this far...What do you think?

Just wanted to say that it was really hard to admit alot of that stuff, so please don't judge me too harshly.

Skye, big big hugs hun, it sounds like you're really doing the hard yards there! Thanks for having the courage to speak up and ask for help and advice. Don't be down on yourself for feeling the way you do under very trying circumstances, you know yourself how important it is to get some strategies in place and are taking those steps, so well done.

I just wanted to mention a couple of strategies that I've heard about that you might consider trying either before medication or as a longer term strategy to wean off medication (if you're uncomfortable yourself with using medication).

One of them is to try a full elimination diet (with the help of a dietician). Sugar is not the only thing that can set sensitive kids off. You can find more information at Sue Dengate's website and The Royal Prince Alfred website (they wrote a really good book called Friendly Food). Often, the worst culprits are fresh foods that are high in naturally occuring chemicals, like mushrooms, corn, tasty cheese and tomatoes. The effect can be cumulative and you won't be able to identify the triggers unless you try an elimination diet.

The second thing you could try is a biofeedback therapy that has been in use now for a couple of decades which involves retraining the brain waves using a series of computer games. Tony Franklin is one respected psych I know who has been using this therapy for years with good results in the NT. He has also had good results from using Omega 3 oils (like fish oils) as a dietary supplement.

The final thing I want to mention that I think is really important is to get some help and support for yourself. This might mean finding an ADHD support network, or find out if there's a behaviour support unit in your area that you can contact for some advice. People who understand how hard it is and have some strategies for calm and positive parenting that you can start doing so that every little thing isn't a battleground. You should be able to locate some help on the Families NSW website.

Good luck with it, it can only get better!!

Skye,
Marydean has given some great advice.
You have alot on your plate with two youngsters and a newborn too. One thing I though of is maybe her behaviour is escalating because of your new addition?
Another place to look for help is the Triple P parenting program. They help with positive parenting. They run short courses all over the place. Maybe it would be good for you and your hubby to go to some of these?
Alot of foods contain things that would negatively affect behaviours, not just junk foods. Have you noticed she gets hyper after eating anything in particular? Sometimes it's oranges or other fruits that can do it. I know alot of breads have additives in them that aren't very good. There are more but I can't think of them. A dietician could help. And possibly a naturopath.
Medication definately has it's place for some children, but I would try all other avenues first before medication. ADD/ADHD/ODD drugs are serious stuff and can have detrimental affects also, so I would try the other things first. Though sometimes it is a combination of things that work the best.
Good luck hun. I hope you find an answer.

I truly, really 2nd the advice about the Triple P program. Start there. Its for your sanity as well. You will probably need to organize your hubby to go too, or at least take notes for him.
You need a 'wall' of parenting for little tykes like these, you can't do this on your own. You need a 'plan'!

Also, re child proof your house. Get EVERYTHING out of the way, screwdrivers, shampoo, basically anything that can be squirted, squashed or used as a weapon....
Here, lots of things live on top of the fridge, talcum powder lives on the bookcase, shampoos bubble bath on top of the shower recess, and toys that have turned into weapons on top of a high unit.

If you can, and I highly recommend this one get out and about with Jaz on your own, even if it is just to run errands. Give her an agenda ie - bakery, bank then to visit Aunty Margo. I often feel my DS wants alllll the attention allllllll of the time, and negative attention is just as good as positive to him :rolleyes:. However on the occasion when I can, I leave DD at home with her dad, take DS with me and he is my perfect little helper.

DO let your mum take her, even if overnight and a day. Nannas have more time and a different routine. My liddle monster quite happily has lunch at the Yacht Club and is perfectly well behaved with his nan. Well he has moments but nan has more patience and less babies around!
We get a break, he feels grown up - and does get allllll the attention when he is there. Jaz will also get a break from her own cr@ppy behaviour routines too. This can only be a positive thing for all of you. Don't look at it from a negative view - we ALL need a village to help us raise our kids, this does not mean failure as a parent.

DS is also bluddy awful to his sister too. Sometimes it feels like he should have been an only child........
In any case I am getting some help on a one on one basis to help me help DS with his behaviour. Don't feel alone - there are many avenues you can take before you have to consider medication.

xoxoxoxoxo

Skye, I have absolutely no advice for you. Just wanted to send you lots of hugs. It sounds like you're having a really rough time and trying your hardest to do the right thing. I think it is very brave of you to be so honest and I definitely can't blame you for feeling some resentment to your challenging toddler. Hey, I have a beautiful head strong one year old and although most of the time I love her so much that it hurts, sometimes I feel some resentment towards her. She just really pushes my buttons. And when sleep deprivation is added to the mix, it can get challenging. Now you have 3 kids and one that is definitely a handful. So no wonder that you feel the way you feel.
I hope that you can find help with your situation. But it sounds like some of the ladies have already given you heaps of good advice.
Love, Sasa

Hugs to you, parenting is so difficult especially of there are underlying issues. Our son has ASD and it has had a huge impact on our parenting decisions. We did triple P and it was could however it doesn't have the same impact with kids with special needs and although we still use the parameters we have different expectations and different thisngs that work for us.

Something we have had a big success with is dietry changes, changing from milk to soy and we are now trying A2 mlk. We should be trying gluten free too but at the moment his behaviour isn't that bad that it is worth making such a dramatic change. My friend has tried an elimination diet based on amines and salitides or something which we are going to try pm me if you want me to get the details for you.

Basically in the end lthough none of us like to medicate our kids or to have them diagnoised with a problem, however if push comes to shove and you are diagnoised then there are lots of options with techniques and yes maybe medication. Also keep in mind though that these are real conditions and that the same as you would deny someone with cystic fibrosis physio or a diabetic insulin I have seen some kids with ADD become much more settled and able to interact with society yet still remain themselves and not "drugged out"

All the est and hope you find a solution that works for you

my son was digonised with ADHD when he was in kinder and they told me i will give you a prescription for the medication i said no i would like to look else where and i got a second option from a paedrition and he said sometimes drs just tell you what you want to here and then give you medicition even when it isnt really neccercery so the paedrition told me to take out alot of sugar (some sugar is fine) but its the colouring and addidives that is added to things that can set alot of kids of, so the dr gave me a long list of things to take away and he was a changed boy in a matter of a few weeks my son is now 11 and i still watch what he has but i let him have a bit more as they say most kids do grow out of ADHD my son was very much like yours he had split his sisters head open (his sister is 2 years older) and he smashed her front teeth now there capped and also has given her a few blood noses. Dont get me wrong its still very hard sometimes my son still gets into one of his moods and nothing can stop him but it might be once a month the rest he is just a normal boy fighting with his siblings and parents
anyway goodluck with it

I dont really have much addvice to give you and sounds like everyone has given you heaps of great stuff anyway, But here is what I have to say anyway...

My mum was told when she had my sister over 35 yrs ago that my sister was hyper and no to give her red food colouring ( ADD and ADHA werent around then) but she went to her doctor one day as she just couldnt cope and felt like a horible mum as she felt like she couldnt love my sister like she did the rest of her children and this is what the doctor told her and Mum has always said it was the best thing she had ever heard so now I will tell it to you... No one ever said you have to LIKE your children but you will always LOVE them and there is a big difference, between love and liking someone... So never feel you are bad a bad mum or that you are doing something wrong and I truly hope that you find the answers you need soon...:hug:

I hope this might help you when you are feeling low

Thanks heaps everyone.


I tried looking up foods & ADHD last night & got one sight that said Foods will not makee a difference as ADD/ADHD is neurological. But then I have heard alot of people say it helped. I am going to give it a go.

Marydean - Thanks heaps. She likes fresh foods alot. Even raw potatoe. One of her faves. She doesn't have much though. Will definetly look into it.

Kylieem - I thought that too. It hasn't helped with me being tired & losing my temper alot easier. But he's only 3 months old. It start ed gettting worse about 12 months ago. When she says she hates us all, she says 'I hate everyone except Jesse'. So I dunno.

Lulu2 - My mum lives 10 hours away from us so it's kinda hard to get her to take her. Even though she wants so. My IL's are only 1 1/2 hours away, but the only 2 times I've asked them to take the kids they said no coz the first time FIL was in a bad mood?? I was nearly half way there when they rang me. & the 2nd time they were going to Sydney for the weekend. So, not real helpful.
MIL used to be one of my best mates, but lately she's been making comments making it my fault. Like No you might get away with that at home, but not here. She doesn't get away with anything at home. That hurts.I don't really wanna ask them for help anymore.
I thought my house was pretty safe, but we just forget sometimes. The shampoo is kept up all the time now. Has been for a while. & the hand soap.

Sunshine_sieben - Toddlers often display that kind of behavior, but Jaz is 6 now. She should've really grown out of the tanty's & stuff by the time she was 4 or 5.
Thanks for the support.

~saram~ - I do agree with you. My brother & sister were both medicated & only took it for school & did alot better. I thinnk if nothing else works you have to, coz they need to be able to have a normal life like everyone else. & it does affect their lives.

Karen130373 - Sounds like you really had your hands full! Jaz hasn't gone that far yet, but does show bri how to do things that will hurt her. Like when Bri was 11 months old she was jumping around on concrete steps. I told her to stop coz Bri would copy & hurt herself. Well she didn't stop & 5 minutes Bri fell & split her head open. Copying her like I said. Now she will get up & stand on the back of the lounge with no wall behind it & tell Bri to get up there with her. Disaster waiting to happen!
Glad things are better for you though.

Tali - What you said made me cry. Thankyou so much.

Oh I didnt realise about your mum being so far away, a pity but maybe not if she is going to make those sorts of comments. Thats undermining you and your confidence.

Id still go with the diet stuff. Even if you don't go the full way. Maybe cut out the OJ and another thing and see what happens. If its ODD I'm sure it will help.

I know what you mean about the house! We are forever taking stuff off Mitch and sticking it on the nearest shelf or whatever. The place is always so cluttered :wall:

Hey Lulu. No mums good. She wants to help, but is too far away. It's my MIL who says that stuff. She should know it's not my fault. DH was the same as a kid. He was worse. He got his brother hit by a taxi! He's ok, but still...I really hope I don't have that to look forward to.

BJrose glad I could help I really didnt know if I was going to post or not as I really didnt want to affend you with any coments I might have made...

Personally ( I do have a GF with a child with ADHA Asburgers and OCD ) I think the sooner you help you DD by getting her assesed the better for your whole family...

Please keep me up-dated as to what the test come back with best of luck :hug:

:wall:, your MIL sounds like my exMIL!

In a particularly ugly incident last christmas that involved her screaming at me, calling me names and pushing me whilst my children were hanging onto my legs says See, it YOUR fault you son is the way he is!!!

Yep, clearly.

Although I must say I was pretty quick to remark on her own sons history and behaviour.....she didn't like that one bit. Suffice to say I can't really get a break away from the kids because their dad lives with her and the last thing I need is those sorts of comments from the old bat.

When i was a teen my mum ran a helpline called "Parents in Crisis" which was for the parents and family of ADD/ADHD children.

ADD/ADHD shows strong family association, but they truly don't know how much of it is genetic and how much is parenting. The consensus seems to be that it's a mixture.

Getting a diagnosis is important but it's also important to remember that with things like ADD/ADHD they cannot tell the difference between "true" ADD/ADHD (a neurological thing without outside influence) and ADD/ADHD behaviours, so having a diagnosis that she has one or both conditions isn't a life sentence and a lot can be done, especially when kids are young (some of our parents had kids in their teens and not yet diagnosed, heading towards jail). So diet IS ABSOLUTELY worth looking at, if it's a neurological thing it won't help but it won't hurt and if the behaviours are being exacerbated by something she's allergic to it will make a potentially big difference to her.

Two things that my mum noted through her interaction over 7 years with these kids are 1) you cannot teach an ADD/ADHD child not to hit by hitting them - i'm not criticising your methods, i have a normal child who i frequently want to strangle! - it's just what they found. Just as she links the simplicity of action "well my sister was doing it" when her sister is only 2 and she is 5 and should know better, she will NEVER get that mum and dad can hit but she can't, and 2) after they began funding parents to go on parenting courses 100% (there were only about 14 families/year) of them found their kids began to behave better and around 80% of those whose parents changed techniques actually had their diagnosis reversed, so great was the improvement. In almost all of the situations there was at least one parent with ADD/ADHD too, and the more parenting classes that parent did, the faster the situation improved. Don't misunderstand me, there were SOME children with ADD/ADHD and parenting could only somewhat limit the behaviours but there were MANY more where the parent-child dynamic had gotten into a place where neither were able to change and things were spiralling downwards. Parenting techniques cannot cure true ADD/ADHD, but they CAN allow you to parent in ways which will minimise it, and in ways YOU choose, rather than are driven to in desperation. With ADD/ADHD staying dead flat calm can be helpful, as the child cannot aprehend their own emotions regarding what is happening, and if the emotions of those around them also run higher they start to get out of control. If you remain calm (which is such hard work NO one can do it all the time) they have only their own emotional response to deal with, and not those around them too. I have many times watched my mum state the fact "it's time to go home now" and then as the child kicked and screamed and scratched and bit, calmly lead them away, saying "now we are going home". It takes a lot of work and the results are small but calmness is contagious after a while. Mum's silence gave them a chance to reflect.

I feel for you hun, it is so hard to raise a difficult child, but as you see in your DH, they can grow up to be truly wonderful people. You are up against it now, but you're actively seeking answers and you WILL find your way through this, all of you.

I would concentrate just now on getting a formal diagnosis and looking at Triple P or whatever is local to you to let you fill your parenting toolbox up with ways to help your DD. Hang in there, you can do this! :)

:hug:

Bx

I have to second MaryDean about diet - our son has some challenging behaviours and we put him on the Elimination Diet (Sue Dengate is our guru!) and saw dramatic changes. We did this after a gf tried it with her son who had been diagnosed ADHD/ODD and after the diet had his diagnosis reversed.

Another behaviour program that is very good is 1-2-3 Magic.

If you search for Sue Dengate you will find her website which has many fact sheets. As for ADHD being neurological, nobody has proven that, whereas there are proven links between food and ADHD, RPAH has done a lot of research as have others. Even natural foods can set them off. There are a lot of additives in our food too - preservatives, colours and flavours - which have many harmful effects.

We are actually doing ok now.
We've cut out lots of foods. Pretty much anything with colouring. Especially yellow. It sets DD2 off like you wouldn't believe.
The only juice they have is apple on occasion, otherwise its milk or water. Found out the other day that DD2 can't even have pop corn. MSG. I gave her the wrong type with out thinking. She can't even have home brand nurofen coz its orange, so has yellow in it!
Also we moved to the coast & to a smaller school where DD1 is alot happier. We are near my mum now, so have heaps of help & support.
Things are looking way up :)

I just printed out Sue Dengates Failsafe book... I thought we were quite strict on diet but i will be even more strict now. I posted a thread bout my Ds being out of control... I feel ur pain... its so hard... doing as much reserarch as i can today while he isnt here... i'm sick of leaving things to these stupid GP's and Peads round here... No one is helping so i'll do it myself...

I'm so glad to hear that Skye!!!!

Very glad to hear that! Herron Paracetemol has no preservatives, it is the only brand that DS can take that doesn't set him off. (for younger kids, you crush it up and mix with golden syrup so they can spoon it down). It's so great once you identify what to avoid.

Jess there is also a Cook book which is excellent.