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With the increased childcare rebate as per the banner on BB at the moment, I am wondering if it's going to have the same effect as with obstetrics and psychology - with increased rebates comes increased childcare fees. I hope this doesn't happen, families are under enough strain... but I also know carers deserve more... I don't know about it all really...
well my centre has just put their fees up by something like 10 bucks from last year. they have given their staff up to $1.00 per hour extra above the award too though. dunno... just doesnt leave me any better off i dont think. ( i work and my DD go to the same day care centre)
Although now less people will get the govt. assistance for it. I got a letter the other day that said if you earn over $126,000 between 2 of you and have one child in care you will get no govt. help all. If you earn over $111,000 you will get reduced help.
I know it sounds like a lot to earn but when they said it is to help middle income earners I laughed cause it seems like they are the ones who always get shafted.
The banner ad is confusing then as it says its not means tested? Bah, who knows with clowns trying to run the country!
I think the rebate is money you get back out of your out of pocket expenses and the other is the assistance they give you to help pay each week.
I can't win- we bought a house so now have a mortgage of $2000 per fortnight instead of $840 rent so i went back to work F/T. I earn another $400 f/n now but i lost $123 family tax payment and my child care went up $40 (no more days just got less help) and my dad minds DS for free every friday.
kelly (and everyone else!) - just thought i'd pop in and try to explain it all in easier terms cos i know how absolutely horrific it is to understand the government websites sometimes (i work with it daily, and still get confuzzled when it's all released, so i don't blame you one little bit!)
just before i start, i'll let you know that the examples i am giving are for families that meet the work/study/training test AND who have their children in APPROVED CHILD CARE - it doesn't apply to registered care. if you're reading this and not sure about the child care that you use, ask them. they'll tell you!
righto - there are two different child care payments for families. first one is the child care BENEFIT that has been ongoing for a number of years. this one IS means tested - and, for most people, is paid direct to the child care centre to reduce what you have to pay each week. up until now, there has been a "minimum" amount that EVERY family was entitled to, no matter what their combined income. Child Care Benefit is paid based on your income estimate, and is a percentage of a basic amount the government has set down. for the new financial year, that amount is $3.47 per hour for a non-school aged child (is a different amount in FDC, or for a school aged child, but i'll answer as if the child is in a long day care centre - eg ABC)
as an example, a couple on a combined income of $80000, with one child in care, would receive 51.87% of $3.47 for every hour that child is in care. if the child care centre you use charges you $70 for a 10 hour day, you're paying $7 an hour
fee per hour: $7.00
child care benefit : $3.47 x 51.87% = 1.799889
out of pocket costs per hour = 7.00 - 1.799889 = 5.200111
fee per 10hour day = $52.01
now, up until the end of this financial year (ie tomorrow), your child care REBATE is 30% of your out of pocket costs - and only applies to families in which both parents meet the work/study/training test. so, in the above example, assuming both parents are working, they would get 30% of that $52.01 rebated for each day
this comes out to $15.60 per day, rebated when your tax is done at the end of the financial year
so, for the current year 07/08 :
cost per day $70.00
CCB $18.00 (rounded)
CCR $15.60
effective out of pocket cost $36.40 per day
the change to the CCR for the new financial year, means that, for a family meeting the work study training test, they will get HALF of their out of pocket costs rebated - so in the above example, the rebate would be half of the $52.00, so $26.00 rebated - AND, it will be rebated quarterly for the first three quarters of the financial year - with the final quarter rebated when your tax is done at the end of the financial year - so you're not having to wait until tax time for that rebate
so, for the new financial year 08/09 :
cost per day $70.00
CCB $18.00 (rounded)
CCR $26.00
effective out of pocket cost $26.00 per day
this leaves this family effectively $10.40 BETTER OFF per day
now, to the higher end families - one child in care, income over $130000 combined.
in the current year, they get that minimum rate CCB i mentioned, so 16.74% of this years CCB (the above example is calculated on next years CCB base rate, this year is $3.37)
so, currently they get:
fee per hour: $7.00
child care benefit : $3.47 x 16.74% = 0.564138
out of pocket costs per hour = 7.00 - 0.5634138 = 6.4365862
fee per 10hour day = $64.37
CCR 30% of that $64.37 is $19.31
so, for the current year 07/08 :
cost per day $70.00
CCB $ 5.64 (rounded)
CCR $19.31
effective out of pocket cost $45.05 per day
same family, in the 08/09 financial year, with NO CCB payable as they are over the income thresholds for CCB
for the new financial year 08/09 :
cost per day $70.00
CCB $ 0.00
CCR $35.00
effective out of pocket cost $35.00 per day
this leaves this family effectively $10.05 BETTER OFF per day - and again, there isn't the need to wait until tax time for those funds to come through
now, from what i can tell, standard cost of living price rises have come in for some child care centres - others appear to be profiteering. the government ARE investigating, and looking at whether they can implement some sort of legislation to prevent profiteering from child care centres based on this. i have personally heard of one of the large commercial centres raising fees by up to 70% - which just disgusts me! this one particular charge increase is the one that has triggered the government to step in so hopefully they'll be forced to reduce their fees...
hope that helped
BG
My centre put up their fees a fairly minimal amount. They are council run so the fees are based on CPI and the budget allocated to them for the year. I have noticed there have been few articles about ABC and their fee rises.
I know we are ok until next year. At the start of this year our cc centre guaranteed not to raise fees again this yaer. I guess we have to wait and see what happens next year. As the owner has lots of other businesses and considers this his "hobby", I'm hopeful we will be ok.
Our centre just put their fees up but it wasn't much, only a few dollars a day. ABC just announced a fairly hefty price hike the other day - I was talking to a lady I know who has her kids in ABC and their out of pocket for two kids was going up by $110 a week! They're considering pulling their youngest one out.
the only people not better off are mums who stay at home and use childcare for a day off
Thanks for that info BG.
Just out of curiosty, when you say that parents need to meet the work/study/training criteria, does that apply if you work half of the year, and not the full year?
Me for example, DH works full time, and I will be going back to work p/t in about 6 months. Does that class as meeting the criteria? Or do both partners need to meet the criteria for the full financial year?
you would get the rebate for the part of the year that you are working - although, if you're on paid or unpaid mat leave, you're still entitled to it for the time off work - i'd say for a maximum of 12 months - when it's processed you're asked for dated etc
while you're a SAHM, unless you're studying, or actively looking for work (ie, registered with a job network member), you won't qualify - but as soon as you return to work, you qualify
In theory people are generally better off provided fees don't rise too much. but the problem with a REBATE is that you get it back at tax time. for alot of people it is nice to have lumpsum at tax, but not very helpful in meeting the day to day costs of living.
My friends ABC also went up by $55 a week. Maybe its an across the board increase?:
DS goes to an independant, not for profit centre, so they would have to be able to justify a price hike of that much in one hit. Normally it goes up by a couple of dollars a year. Last year there was no direct fee increase, but the centre hours decreased from 11 to 10.5 so there was an indirect hourly rise.
I agree with Kelly's original post - its very difficult. On one hand childcare prices are out of reach for a lot of families and on the other, childcare workers IMO should be paid more than what they are for the work that they do. I know the staff at our centre *regularly* buy items for the children (toys, books etc) out of their own pocket.
I'm never better off and my centre has raised the fee's $2 for my 3 year old and $4 for nursery (which will hurt when I go back to work after bubs is born)
If you're not working you're still entitiled to 24 hours of reduced rate yet mums that work full time have 50 hours reduced even though child care centres charge you 12 hours a day for full time care to me that doesn't seem fair you should receive reduced rate for the full 12 hours a day
I have an excellent article somewhere about how the rebate system should be scrapped. I can't remember it all but the basic premise was if you have 10 apples and 50 people that want them they will become expensive. So if the government says apples are too expensive we'll provide a rebate so everyone can afford them you still only ahve 10 apples and the price just goes up. If the government spent the money on providing more apples however then the price would go down.
Exactly Misty, I need it on a weekly basis not in a lump sum.:
At least with this rebate its every 3 mths and as long as you are registered with centrlink you will get a lump sum 4 times a year..
Still not much help though
it comes out quarterly, not annually:
it's not ideal, but the logistics of arranging this weekly would be horrific from a processing standpoint. Child Care Providers only put in usage statements once a month to once a quarter - they only claim THEIR share of the child care benefit at that time. if it were changed to weekly for the half of usage fees, it would add extra processing for child care centres, FAO staff - and ultimately, it will hit the hip pocket of the consumer
i agree, there may need to be more places - but it's consumer driven and is, essentially, a private company - so if a business owner would prefer to increase fees rather than build another centre, the government can't do much about it. yes, centrelink/FAO help fund through CCB and rebate, and they will only do that for companies that have met a set of guidelines - but ultimately, child care is a private business, not a government run organisation, so they can't dictate what places go where.
Beatrix, the rebate is in place to help those that really have no choice. it's a way of encouraging those mothers that can return to the workforce to do exactly that. they may have no choice BUT to use child care, where a SAHP does. i can understand wanting to have some respite, and for some, to allow their child to socialise with someone other than mum and dad, but it's more of a want than a need (psychologically, it may feel like a need from the parents perspective, but i hope you can see where i'm coming from)
Its cool Bg i totally understand that..
It will actaully prob free up mor spaces for parents who need the care cause the SAHM will pull there kids out
The only reason Im bummed is cause i Have a good for nothign ex who isnt very consistant with taking th kids so it is my time off IYKWIM
I think SAHM should be entitled to it. If you are a single parent looking after 3 kids under the age of 4 (like beatrix) that is a full time job in itself. Mums that work get time away from constantly having to deal with their kids ( even though they are working).:
Single mums on the pension desperately need money and im guessing would love to work, but could you imagine paying for 3 kids to attend daycare full time, on a single wage?
not arguing that psychologically a single parent will benefit - or any SAHP for that matter - by having a break from their children - was just stating how it has been implemented. it wasn't an opinion, just a fact! i have no doubt sometimes we all just need "me" time - even if it's just to do the household chores without constant interruption.... there are other exceptions to qualify for the rebate (ie child with disability etc):
You can also qualify if you volunteer 15hrs a week.
Im lucky cause i am active at my local kindy and am a consultant online so I have spoken to centrelink and they said as long as i keep a record of my activities and its a average of 15hrs a week i am eligable
yeah, volunteering falls under the work/study/training test. as long as you have a record of it and can back up your claims if it's disputed, you're fine...
My sister has taken her son out of the ABC center he was attending when her fee's jumped from $43 to $77 a day. She is a single mum & can't afford that.
She was interviewed for the paper as well about it, she kicked up a massive stink about it & called lots of people .
there has been a massive uproar about fee hikes with the start of the financial year by that particular child care group. i honestly can't see how they can justify that - $10 a day, yeah sure, with the increase of costs to everything - but not $34 a day - that's just crap!
I heard that ABC upped their fees. That's just ridiculous! Nina's daycare fees are $51 a day, and they have no intention of increasing those in the near future either.
BG, the director at the boys' centre told me that they now have to submit their statements weekly as well, and that they will be paid the CCB in arrears not advance. Think of the extra work for them, and surely that will only encourage ccs to put their fees up. Sometimes the implications of things aren't really thought through. I'm really glad we are at a centre where it's not just about money!!
i hadn't heard that they were now expecting weekly processing of usage - it's a PITA for those centres that arent linked via a network to the child care processing teams as they will have to generate statements, forward them across, and then have the processing team upload the information to the system. it's always been a case of the CCB being paid in arrears - this is just adding extra pressure to them all. they're effectively going to have to commit at least one person for at least one day a week (or equivalent) just to process it all. i feel for the providers genuinely trying to be there for the families, not the bottom dollar - i'm guessing the small providers (so your community types, not your ABC's) would make little to no profit from child care...
This is going to be way OT, but I don't think many people realise the amount of admin work that goes into cc. Not just running the centre, but programming, preparing activities, cleaning etc. Most centres expect carers to do this in their own time. Our centre uses extra staff in the rooms so the group leaders can do all their programming, prep etc in work time and therefore they are more committed to it and they do a huge variety of activities, themes etc. They also update a journal for each child with photos, developmental updates, artwork etc. This must take so much time - in J's room there are 47 kids across all the days and 22 in T's room. I look at the boys' journals every few weeks and they are so amazing. Imagine how much time that must take the carers to update for every child!!
there is a hell of a lot of admin for sure MR - which is why i can understand the costs being more than what an in home carer might charge - and there IS a justification for some of the expense - but an increase of 80% or thereabouts, as is the case with some ABC centres - that's just ludicrous. that's more about making a profit for the owners/share holders - not using the money to ensure the best interests of the children in care.
NOT SAYING that ABC centres are in any way better or worse than any other centre - i just cant see justification for those sort of rate hikes - it's not ALL about improving services for the children that are in care at an ABC centre...
I totally agree with you BG. That wasn't the point of my post. There is only one word for what ABC are doing - profiteering!
Hey BG,
Just a qn - if the CCB was claimed in my name, but DH is the one with the tax bill, can he claim the 30% rebate on his tax?
30% rebate is paid through FAO now - has been since 06/07 financial year - so it doesn't matter if you doa tax return or not hun
I completely agree with what you said MR about how most people don't realise how much goes into running a centre for children (ELC or CC centres). I've written many posts to that effect. Most parents kinda expect the cleaning (for example) to be done at the same time as caring for the children BUT heaven forbid their child gets hurt while your head is down cleaning the floor etc. Oh and they also want every significant event (every poo every wee every feed every drink) documented please... for each child thanks. hmmm I don't think i'll ever return to child care for this reason... over worked, underpaid.
Back onto topic: the local papers are full here with parents complaining that all the local childcare centres have upped their fees in our area recently. So Kelly, your concerns seem to be justified. reasons cited are increases in food and nappies etc. They possibly mentioned staff wages. I agree that staff need to be paid more... but is it cynical of me to think that why is it only when the government raises rebates that staff are paid more? Hmmmm
I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering. Would the government ever consider public child care centres that are free like primary school instead of all the rebates and what not? Working parents would be eligable and SAHM would have to pay or use private centres ~ yes that sucks for the SAHM (like me), but it's not a necessity for children to go to day care. Just a thought. Would it cost too much to have gov run/public centres?
i don't believe fully government funded child care is plausible or reasonable at all. it's hard yards to get sufficient funding, placement of centres would be seen to be discriminatory if there wasn't a place for every child who's parent wanted to use it. asking parents to pay if they're not working, but free for working parents would again be seen to be discriminatory. the government funds public schooling - but look at how much additional fund raising is required to get more than the bare essentials. there are voluntary fees etc as well... how would you prioritise placement? full time worker, part time worker, casual, sahp?
Child care is big business - there is no doubt. but there is only places available because it IS profitable so people are prepared to invest in start up of a centre until it starts making money - unfortunately there is too much profiteering, and that's where our problems come from. there needs to be government legislation to stop profiteering, but to still allow the child care centres to run as a business.