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I was just looking through a few websites on immunising children and reading alot of stories where these have gone wrong.
What im wondering is (and please no one take offese..if you do i apoligise now) but is it a proven fact that it WAS the vaccine or are parents/carers blaming the vaccines because theres so much pressure to have our kids done and alot of attention is bought to the fact there are risks and dangers involved?
Kimbaz, I don't think anything has been conclusively proven, but there is certainly enough evidence to say that at least in some cases, the vax is most likely the cause. Recently the US government conceded that thiomersal (mercury) probably did cause autism. Thiomersal is no longer in vax in Aus, but the ingredients that are left can almost certainly cause a reaction in a small number of cases. There is also the question of the long term harm done by artificially boosting our immune systems. However, the diseases the vax protect against do also cause harm in a small number of cases. Personally I don't think there is a cut and dried answer as to whether or not we should immunise. I think every parent should research the issue and make up their own minds. Of course when you do this, take into account the source of the information - some are more credible than others - on both sides of the debate!!
I think it's a hard one to call Kim. The main reson being that children with autism tend to reach milestones etc at the same rate as other children, but stop or go downhill at around 18 months which coincides with the MMR injection. Some children will develop autism without the MMR immunisation as well, so I'm not sure personally about the link.
we've just been recently discussing this in our baby buddies thread as all our little ones recently hit the 12month mark so of course, all due for their jabs. I agree with Mantaray that each parent needs to do their own research and ensure the information supplied is credible.
Personally I am pro-immunising as certain diseases have been practically eliminated through vaccines so I am keen to give my child the best chance to fight others iykwim. Plus, I just don't want to risk my little ones being severely effected by illnesses, whilst not totally immune just by having their shots (I am aware of this), I've done all I can to prevent my child from suffering the illness. However, my own conclusion is kind of similar to "damned if you do, damned if you don't" if that makes sense?? As there is so much information that is pro immunising and so much information that is pro not immunising.
Really it comes down to personal choice imo :) (and both sides have their passionate advocates! ;))
I do think that there have unfortunately been instances where things have gone wrong - not only autism, but other issues which are more often than not related to an allergic reaction to one or more of the components of the vaccine. It is a risk we take if we choose to vaccinate our children, so you do need to weigh up the pros v cons for your situation.
Hm thats a tough one. I think you just have to weigh it up. ITs a chance you take and i personally have been jabbed with every jab i can as has my son who is 19mths old. I just wanna give my son the best chance of not getting seriously ill
Thanks everyone for their input, appreciated.
Ive just always wondered about it, thats all...and reading stories today made it get the better of me and i wanted to know!
I agree that it is a really hard one too. I am not sure that we will ever have a conclusive answer because research on humans is so difficult and fraught with ethical dilemas.
I do, however, have a friend who has a younger brother who had a serious reaction to the measles jam (granted 30 years ago). He was a happy normal child the day before his jab and hours hours was convulsing and unfortunately has a mental age of about 3.
But even after knowing this I still think that the benefits outweigh the possible risks. If they didn't we wouldn't get into a car and drive on the roads.
Iv'e immunised both my girls but after learning some things I will not be immunising number 3 until after they turn 2. One thing I was amazed to learn is that Japan do not immunise their bubs until 2 and they have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world! That alone is enough for me. xoox
We have just had 2 confirmed cases of measles in Townsville after 10 years of being measles free. It is a brother and sister (2 yrs old and 1 yrs old). I don't know how serious the particular cases are but it is such a contagious illness.
You have to decide whether the cons outweigh the pros for you personally.
IMO I prefer to have my children vaccinated as I don't think I could live with myself if they caught a preventable illness that caused permanent damanage. Personally I believe the risks associated with the MMR vaccine (i.e. autism etc) are relatively low but you can delay the vaccination until after the child is 2 years old. Vaccinations have virtually irradicated some illnesses (such as polio and measles) but they are now making a comeback due to unvaccinated children and countries where vaccinations are not common.
WM, I think delaying vaccination can be a good option if you are worried about doing it younger. However bear in mind that delaying vaccinating is not likely to be a significant reason for the low mortality rate. I think you will find that there are lots of contributing factors.
I have to say that I have researched this thoroughly and I definitely don't have the answer. I chose to immunise the boys, as I felt that on the balance of probablities it was the lesser of two evils, but I can easily see why people make the other choice. The one time I was very grateful for my decision was when there was a case of menningicoccal at Jack's day care. Knowing that he had been immunised (even though it doesn't cover every strain and isn't necessarily 100% effective) gave me some peace of mind.
Thats what my mind keeps saying too...yet ive delayed DD2 6 months needles and she is now 8 and half months old.....i think i just have to bite the bullet and get it done....id feel bad if anything happened. Still tossing up DD1 18 month chicken pox....not sure how valid that one is....most kids get chicken pox sometime in their life and the vaccine doesnt stop them getting it...so why get it!!:
IMO I prefer to have my children vaccinated as I don't think I could live with myself if they caught a preventable illness that caused permanent damanage
I find the whole debate interesting....so im glad i posed this question and everyone is right...there is no right or wrong answer....there are facts that yes it was vaccine...and then theres the side it could have been the vaccine (co-incidence) not proven though.
Kim, if it helps you at all, I asked a GP who I really trust about the cp vax, as I also seriously considered skipping that one. He said that he recommends it because cp can have very serious complications (including death in very rare cases) and also that it is really one of the most innocuous vaccines (fewer reported complications etc).
Oh wow...thanks Manta....def keep that in mind
Immunisation is a hard thing to talk about because everyone has their own opinions.
My eldest son has a form of Autism. He was diagnosed at the age of two with PDD-NOS. Up til the age of two we never had any troubles with immunising him, and then he had his MMR injection. Now I'm NOT saying that it was caused by this or if it was an already predisposed thing, but after he had this one injection, he was different. One morning about 3 weeks after his injection, he couldn't walk, talk or do anything, he was like a newborn again!There are no proven studies that the MMR injection caused autism but it has been linked towards it. BTW he is 12 yrs old now.
There are so many people that this has happened too, it really is so sad and I think its too much of a coincidence that in the majority of cases they are within days/weeks of vaccinations.
There is not even any real proof that vaccines have eradicated diseases, studies show that cerain diseases were already in decline due to better sanitation and healthcare when the vaccines were introduced. In fact in some cases, such as with polio, rates of the disease actually went up when the vaccine was introduced. Also, many outbreaks of diseases occur in people who have supposed to been vaccinated against them.
I do think it is a personal decision to be made, but it should be an informed one - too many people only listen to their doctor/nurse and do not look at both sides of the argument before vaccinating.
I certainly won't be vaccinating my baby, I think nature did very well designing our amazing bodies and do not believe it should be messed with unless absolutely critical.
It is a tough one. I asked the paed about links to autism, and he kinda jumped on the coincidence bandwagon saying that because the babies are having frequent vaccinations, then whenever you get the first signs of autism, it's bound to be close to some immunisations. I think allergic reactions are more frightening than the risk of autism anyway.. they seem to be the scarier stories.
*shrug* I'm still undecided about the whole thing.. but lean more towards immunising as opposed to not immunising. But that's just me :)
As for the chickenpox vax.. my nephew & neice weren't immunised, and they got chickenpox a little while ago.. and my nephew was taken to hospital as they were worried that he was getting them in his lungs. Chickenpox can be very nasty, you can get it in your eyes, and girls can get in their girly bits.. it can be much more serious than just a few itchy spots on the torso and limbs! I figure if you can reduce the severity of it by getting a headstart with the vax, then why not.
The recent outbreak of measles has mainly affected babies under 12mths of age - who are all too young for the vaccine anyway. The others affected were people not from this country (the article I read didn't say if they were tourists or immigrants) who had not been vaccinated. There was only a very small number of older children who had it that were not vacced for it.
I don't think it is fair to apportion blame to those who are unvaccinated as vaccinated people can be carriers of the disease and simply not get sick from it due to their immune status.
Very random from my part, but I tend to think of the bigger picture past just my child. Of course, her safety and wellbeing is my foremost priority in front of anyone else's but... Diseases like Polio wouldn't be so rare today (my father had polio as a child and endured painful streel leg braces for a great length of time) if it weren't for immunisations.
Just personally, I made the decision to have Maddy immunised but I feel at ease with having three family members who are in the medical industry and can provide me with information and advice (without badgering me into their personal views).
I would personally feel terrible if my child wasn't immunised, contracted something avoidable like chicken pox and then gave it to an adult who themselves had never been immunised. Shingles can be extremely serious in some adult cases, including paralysis.
If immunisation is as vital as we're told by the medical world they are, and I HADN'T had my chicken pox jabs as a child, I wonder how sick I really would have been when I finally got it at age 15. I was pretty darn ill, but maybe it could have been worse? My parents always joked I didn't do things by halves - I had measles at 18 months old and apparently all of my skin was swollen.
I can vouch for how bad toddlers can get chicken pox - my sister had them at 2yo and had them inside her nose, ears, anus and vagina. Anyway, it's not fair to give you all the horrible stories of what can happen etc and err on the side of vaccination. If you are really serious about it, get a copy of Just a Little Pr1ck which gives an unbiased view of immunisations because any info you get from your MCHn or Dr is going to be skewed in favour of it and make up your own mind about if it is worth it for your children or not.
In a recent court case in the US, the government conceded that current research suggested that the MMR vaccine may have activated an "autism-like brain disorder" in a child who is now developmentally delayed, and the family of that child were awarded damages.
It's probably too early to tell how that will affect immunisation policies world-wide, but we have elected not to immunise with the MMR for our girls, and to delay their other immunisations until they are older, and can get good seroconversion with one dose.
Thanks for posting that info Michael. It will be intersting to see what effect - if any - that this will have elsewhere. I am surprised though that they made that decision based on a 'may have caused' - thats a big gamble if you ask me.