Can babies just not like sleeping?

I'm starting to become convinced my 9 month old DD just doesn't like sleep. Is that possible? Can babies just not like sleeping? I personally don't understand her as I love my sleep, always have. But my DD... no way.

The night times aren't too bad. She goes down at 5:30pm (ish) every night, following her bedtime routine of a shower with mummy or daddy, a massage, cuddle and a feed. I purchased the No Cry Sleep Solution book which addressed feeding to sleep and have now gotten her to the point of being able to feed, then pull off and roll over. The only thing I don't like about night times at the moment are the constant, almost clock setting, 2 hour wake ups. I've been putting that down to teething lately though...

The part I am struggling with however, is the day times. She just plain does not sleep. Most days I get half an hour... not half an hour naps, half an hour period. On a good day she will have two half an hour sleeps. But she fights it SO bad. This morning was probably one of the worst. She was up at 6:45am (her normal wake up time), but we didn't get "up" up until 7:30. I've only just gotten her to sleep, it's almost midday. She was tired at 10ish so I gave her a feed which she was starting to fall asleep towards the end of.

As soon as she realised she was falling asleep, she pushed up into a sitting position and then onto standing. This is very common behaviour for her when ever she realises she is falling asleep. Night times not so much, although if I try and put her down too early she will play around a bit in bed (we co-sleep and I put her down in the bed every nap and sleep), blow raspberries on my belly (her latest trick) and give me lots of cuddles. If she does do that she falls asleep of her own accord, I simply lay there with her.

I can't do that with day sleeps. The one she's down for now started with a change of a nappy, and as soon as I put her down on the change table, she started crying - really crying. The kind where they end up coughing because they work themselves up so much. She stopped when I picked her up, but when we laid down in bed is started again. She was like this for 10 minutes before she fell asleep on my shoulder/chest. She was SO tired it was ridiculous, yet I know, almost to the minute, she will be up after half an hour... still rubbing her eyes, but she will not go back to sleep no matter what we try.

I was chatting to a lady the other day who says it's not normal and not healthy for DD to be like this. Both her kids slept 2 hours for their morning nap and 3 hours for their afternoon. Hell I'd love ONE 2 hour nap!! I had the whole controlled crying speech given to me, was told that she just put her kids in the cot, shut all the doors in the house and went outside until they stopped. I can't do that. I have no problems lying down with her, but I just wish she wouldn't fight sleep when she is so obviously tired and needing it. The lady basically said that this is all my fault...

Is this normal? Is half an hour sleep (sometimes 2x) risking her health? I'm going out of my mind with lack of sleep at the moment and don't know what else to do. I'm starting to wonder if this is something I have caused this. This is not the first time I have had a mother tell me I am doing it wrong and causing all my problems, although the last lady was a nutjob in my mothers group who didn't even allow people to hold her children for fear of them wanting to be held too much. So I'm not really counting her.

Need some help, advice, someone to tell me that this is just the DD is and it's not my fault? Anything... :dunno:

Sounds like us at that age. Big hugs, it's soooooooo hard. Forget the whole cc thing, I've seen enough of your posts to know it's not for you. I am guilty of giving it a go, out of total desperation, when DS was 9 months. It made things sooooooooo much worse in the short term, and did nothing to help the long term. It took me weeks to 'fix' what I'd stuffed up. And I have to live with it now, that I did that to him.

I could well be wrong, but it sounds as though she's overtired. I know if DS is overtired he fights sleep something shocking. And when he was that age, well forget it, overtiredness would lead to a near breakdown for me and DH! He fought sleep almost every time at 9 months, and being past it jsut made it so, so hard. In hindsight though, I wasn't very good at reading his tired signs, and so was letting him go too long. Though in all honesty, I really don't see how I could have done anything to make him go to sleep peacefully. He is such a restless sleeper, a few people have commented on that now.

It's so much easier when they're tiny hey? You pop them in the sling, or pram, and away you go, just get on with things. She's obviously so much more aware of what's going on now. I have no real practical advice, I'm sorry. But I can try to give you hope........I'm about to go and check on my DS as he's been asleep for almost 2 hours! 6 months ago, I would never, ever have thought we'd see that day. But for the last couple of months, barring times of sickness, his sleep is soooo much better. He doesn't sleep right through, but sometimes we get until 5 or even 6 before he comes into our bed! So things are really so much easier. I hope that it happens for you too :)

ETA FWIW, my DS is a bright, bubbly, VERY chatty little boy. He's meeting all his milestones etc, so I don't think the lack of sleep has hindered his development ;)

Thanks for the reply Janie, it's good to know that I am not alone in what I am going through. You are very much right in that CC is not for me, I had one bad day a month or so ago where I couldn't put the groceries away as DD was wanting to be held. Being over tired myself (I think I had had 3 hours sleep that night) and not thinking straight, I put her in her cot and just let her cry while I put the groceries in the cupboard. My reasoning for it was because if I didn't put her out of my sight, I was going to scream and loose it, and I didn't want to do that. Of course she screamed the entire time, banged her lip against the edge of the cot which split it (her lip, not the cot) and I spent the next 3 hours crying and cuddling her, so upset that she had gotten so distraught. No, CC is so not for me lol.

When she wakes at night time, I've just been feeding her back to sleep. Every two hours is hard to do though... and she's been consistently waking at 1:30am for the past two weeks. In amongst the 8pm, 10:30pm, 3:30am and 5, 6 and 7am wakes. I decided the other night that I wasn't going to feed her to sleep and instead try to get her to resettle. That was a silly decision at that hour, she didn't go back to sleep quietly. Then of course, in my stupid 1:30am not awake state, I convinced myself that I didn't want to give in after she got upset, because that will only teach her to keep crying until she gets the feed...

I think the problem with that though is I haven't slept more than two hours at a time for the past month, have mush for brain and am so tired. I can hear the way I speak to DH at the moment too, it's not normal me...

I thought it might be an over tired thing too. Given how much she wakes over night, it wouldn't surprise me if she was over tired all day. Since she's basically our alarm clock - awake between 6:30am - 7:00am every morning without fail, I start watching her closely around the 9:30am mark. Usually around 10am the hair pulling and eye rubbing starts and I drop everything to see if she's ready for bed. Gee, do you think I'm wanting those nap breaks? LOL!

Sometimes she'll go down with a feed, other times, like today, she won't. I wouldn't mind so much if she just laid there, but she'll sit up, then stand up, then start crawling off the bed. Mattress is on the floor, so easy for her to get off. Course, I did it so she wouldn't roll off and hurt herself, not so she could escape nap time lol. So she might be over tired, but I try to catch her as soon as I see her signs. I don't know - could I be wrong? She's pretty obvious (I think) with her sleep queues. She starts with a yawn, sometimes. Then it's the hair pull and eye rub. It happens so quick though, one minute she'll be playing, then BAM hair pull, eye rub, whinge.

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It's so much easier when they're tiny hey?

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Oh tell me about it. I feel so silly for complaining about how she did nothing but sleep in that first month. Please let me rewind time!!

I'm sure she'll get there, eventually. She has to right? It's just that after 9 months of not having more than 3 hours sleep at a time, and the no break what so ever during the day, it's starting to do my head in. I hate myself when I am tired as my patience rope gets very, very short. I've lost my cool a couple of times recently and I hate it, I hate her face when I do it, I hate to think that I'm ruining her. (My mother was always tired, lost her cool daily at me, and I needed counseling to deal with the way I was (she stuffed me up complete). I am beyond petrified of doing the same thing to DD).

Sorry for such long posts... I think most of it is just getting it off my chest at the moment. I've no longer got the mothers group (implosion), don't know any other mothers with young ones, and my BFF is 1 day overdue for her little bubs, so I don't want to bug her. Plus, she's heard me talk about this before lol.

First of all,big hugs to you,you are doing a fantastic job!
I dont really have any advice but just wanted to let you know you are not alone :) I love my sleep and just cant understand why my DD (6mths) doesnt! She has always been a pretty bad sleeper,never had that magical sleep thru (everybody else's baby I know has-which doesnt help!) She only sleeps for 1/2 an hour (to the minute) stints during the day if Im lucky,I try putting her in her cot but most of the time she gets so upset I end up sitting on the couch with her in my arms! The days when we stay at home are the worst so i try to go out every day and the further away I have to drive the better! Least she will drop of to sleep in the car (still for exactly 30mins!)
I've had more times than I like to remember when I've lost it and yelled at her,then I feel terrible 'cos I've just yelled at my baby and Im suppose to be the one she can turn to for comfort :( I even feel disappointed in her because she doesnt sleep and I hate myself for thinking like that!
My DH thinks she is just to intellegent to sleep and must have so much going on in there she cant relax! :) So maybe we should think of it like that hey?!
Sorry I'm not much help,but like i said just wanted to let you know your not alone.Im sure one day they'll get there and when their teenagers and we cant get them outta bed till after noon least will be able to look back and (hopefully!) smile at these days when we're ready to pull out hair out!!
Well gotta go she's up again (its only been 2 hours!),good luck!

I feel your pain, another non sleeper here. We are trialing a new diet without preservatives/additives and natural food chemicals which has made quite an impact. 2 hour naps and 5-6 hours straight at night - big improvement and her tanties have settled a lot too. Check out fedup dot com dot au for the details.

All the best

Having been told by my own mother that I am a bad mummy because DS didn't sleep through by 8 weeks, I ignore people who tell me what children "should" be doing and that my parenting damages my son.

DS hates sleep too. He still uses a buggy for day sleeps at home - but LOVES the cot at nursery. Hmm, wonder if his carer would do bedtime at home if I paid her? He sleeps pretty well now, usually one bad night a week if that, but he used to be up for a good 4-5 hours of his 11-hour main sleep.

I second the idea that intelligent babies don't like sleep, they're too busy practicing their skills.

Ness, I have to walk away and let DS scream while I calm down some nights - I'd rather me calm down than scream at him, because I feel worse then. Although DS laughs at me, but that makes me madder.

The laughing is definatley worse! Sometimes DD will wake in the middle of the night happy as and ready to play!I just have to walk away and let her have a little party in her cot by herself untill she's ready (ie.cries out!) for me to rewrap her up!

Another thing my DH always says is 'people lie'.He thinks people will only tell you what they want you to know and not the real truth.I guess we're lucky to have forums like this and it helps to have a few honest friends as well!

Ness, our paed says that people lie too LOL! He says that there's no way MOST babies are always sleeping through by 12 months.........they're just not develpmentally ready for it.

Just wanted to say DO NOT think any more about what that lady told you about her fabulous sleeping babies! How wonderful for her to have babies that did that but how she thought that telling you all about it was helping you I do not know.

I could barely believe it myself when I read it - there are some great sleepers in my mother's group but they don't match that!

My DS was also a lousy sleeper and nothing would drive me mad more than people telling me smugly how great their babies were at sleeping - the obvious implication being that I was doing something wrong. It's so hard when your baby doesn't sleep as much as they are "supposed" to be sleeping, you feel jealous of the mothers that have babies that do sleep that much and you can't help but question yourself. It's soul destroying.

DS also did the very short naps and I found that I felt much better mentally when I didn't fight it even though the constant interrupted sleep was always a factor and I had days where I couldn't stand the sound of myself either because I had such a short fuse. When DS was about 11 months or so he suddenly started sleeping for longer - 2 to 3 hours at a nap time, and it was nothing we did, he just did it on his own. Mind you, that was when he started cutting out naps during the day and going to bed later at night.

Hang in there. One thing we did find helped us was that if DS was not asleep in about 20 minutes after trying to put him down, he wasn't going to sleep...so we would get him up and try again in a while.

Thankyou SO much for the replies ladies! It's so good to know that I am not alone in having a non-sleeper. Helps me feel it's not something I am doing wrong.

Ness, I actually read your reply out to my husband, he nodded the entire time. I too find myself making excuses to go for a drive as Savannah does sleep in the car - usually on the trip back, so I just plan it around then. There's been quite a few times I've done that to get her to sleep, then just parked in the garage for the remainder of the nap and stared at how messy the inside of the car has gotten.

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I've had more times than I like to remember when I've lost it and yelled at her, then I feel terrible 'cos I've just yelled at my baby and Im suppose to be the one she can turn to for comfort

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Thankyou SO much for posting that. I too have lost it at Savannah and if I could turn back time to redo that moment, I would give anything. I'm very much 'my mother' in that I loose my cool, blow up and yell, then 5 minutes later it's all over. Of course, then I feel like absolute crap, Savannah's in tears and I spend the rest of the day feeling guilty that I could upset her so much. The worst part is I can picture her little face when ever I think about it, and it's torturing me.

I like the thought of her being so intelligent. I'm going to sound like one of 'those' mums now lol - but she is SO bright! She picks things up straight away and just catches on real quick. Except my cordless mouse - THAT she just won't leave alone lol! Maybe that is part of the problem, her brain just doesn't shut off enough for her to sleep. She's always fought sleep in that she doesn't want to miss out on anything as well. Always has to be in the middle of everything that's happening.

Saram, thanks for the website, I'll go have a look. I must admit I am really bad with my diet at the moment, which I have been wondering if it's causing half the problem. It's a vicious cycle though - she doesn't sleep and I get tired, too tired to cook properly so I eat crap, which affects her (?) and gives us less sleep, I feel even less like cooking etc. Or I do cook and it's thinks like meatloaf sandwiches, or just spaghetti - ie no veggies. I'll be sitting down tomorrow and reading that site however, it might be enough of an incentive to cook and eat better.

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Ness, I have to walk away and let DS scream while I calm down some nights - I'd rather me calm down than scream at him, because I feel worse then.

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That's what I did the day I put her in the cot. After the last time I screamed (more like a 'SAVANNAH!' really loud) and seeing her jump, the sheer look of terror in her eyes and the tears that followed, I started walking away or putting her in her cot while I did what ever was needed. Then of course I spend the next three days feeling guilty, and Savannah seems to really pull away from me. The last time it happened she didn't want anything to do with me for two days (weekend so daddy was here and he was obviously the one she preferred). I've never had my heart broken as much as it was that weekend.

The other problem I have with that, is after reading The Science of Parenting, I worry endlessly about what that does to her. Course, I worry just as much about what I do to her when I loose my cool. Knowledge really is a blessing AND a curse.

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Ness, our paed says that people lie too LOL! He says that there's no way MOST babies are always sleeping through by 12 months.........they're just not develpmentally ready for it.

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Now see, why can't THIS be more spread around? Especially the developmentally part... Maybe then I wouldn't worry so much. And yes, I fully think people lie lol, especially when I've heard of all these 'perfect babies'. It's a shame though, that we can't be more honest. Although that said, I still hesitate when ever I tell people I co-sleep because I've had enough "you'll never get her out of the bed now" responses. Perhaps if co-sleeping were more talked about (among everything else), it wouldn't be so taboo. Although on the plus side I see slings and baby carriers EVERYWHERE now! I've even seen two Hug-A-Bubs, not including my girlfriend who bought one the other week!

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When DS was about 11 months or so he suddenly started sleeping for longer - 2 to 3 hours at a nap time, and it was nothing we did, he just did it on his own.

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Oh that gives me hope. I've been told that she would never do it on her own, and even the No Cry Sleep Solution book says that they might do it on their own, but not until they're 2 - 3! That thought scared the daylights out of me, especially since we want more kids - can't do a newborn if this one doesn't sleep better, how would I cope?!

I've too found that if Savannah isn't down quickly with her day naps that she's not going down at all. Of course, she makes this fairly obvious because she just crawls right off the bed. Night times are better in that if she's fighting sleep, she'll just toss and turn. She'll sit up, then put her head down on my chest, then roll so her head is on me arm, sit back up, pull my shirt up and blow some raspberries on my belly, smoosh her face into my belly, put her head back up on my chest etc. This can go on for half an hour, which by the way, is REALLY hard to not laugh when she tickles, but I absolutely ADORE that cuddle time with her and am quite happy for it to happen.

As she's doing this you can see her slowing down and starting to get ready for sleep. Eventually the head stops lifting as much, and then she falls asleep. Sometimes on me, sometimes just beside me. It's good (I think) that she can fall asleep on her own like that, ie not needing to be fed to sleep. Sometimes I will rub her back if she seems to be having trouble getting relaxed.

Is that 'self settling' though? Even though I am beside her, is it still classed as self settling? I've not been sure on that one.

Carley... just... *HUGS!* Thankyou for that reply. Oh my gawd I was nodding the whole way through lol. I've blamed EVERYTHING for her lack of sleep. In the old house it was the noisy neighbours next door or the 10 million cars that drove past the house. Now it's the builders, the bright house, the neighbours car, the dogs barking, the cold, the heat, the cat purring too loud! And I so hear you on the house and take aways! Especially the past month...

Unfortunately no family close, but I might just take you up on the MSN offer next time I'm having "a moment".

Thankyou EVERYONE for the replies. It's so nice to know that I am not alone, and more importantly that it's not my fault! It's hard to talk to people that haven't experienced a baby that fights sleep, they just don't seem to understand. And worse, they are never helpful. I feel guilty enough as it is from loosing my cool - to already blaming myself, I can't handle other people making it worse.


(( P.S Sorry if anything doesn't make sense, late, tired and I didn't proof read. :redface: ))

Haydies - what a great thread so many of us mummies of non-sleepers coming out of the closet. It is so true that people lie - I do all the time, or rather I nod and smile when people ask if she is a good sleeper - it's just easier IYKWIM

I think everyone of us has been at the loosing it stage - go have a pillow tantrum, that's what I do. Calmly put her down somewhere safe and go and scream and punch a pillow, truely satisfying! I was talking to another mum of a non sleeper and she was saying she loved her amby hammock as when bub wouldn't settle you could bounce it was all your frustration and bub would just reverb gently (almost like a mummy control mechanism :-)

To be honest I have ummed and ahhed about this diet, it seemed like such a huge amount of work and I really couldn't be bothered, and I have broken down and got take away - and paid for it later. I went on an hour and a half shopping trip (obviously child free) and bought all failsafe foods so that I could just eat whatever and know it was safe. Dh has been fending for himself quite a bit and the kids and I have just been eating whatever - rice bubbles for lunch etc but it is working and tis weekend while DD was having her HUGE naps - which I have never had before I got lots of cooking done for tis week which helped a lot. Caffine was def a huge obsticle for me as I am still sleep depreved but it also a big trigger for Ari so i have been sharing her daytime naps with her the last few days rather then hit the coffee and softdrink.

Now I have rambled on, all the best

Sarah, while BFing even one tiny square of chocolate would have DS bouncing off the walls, I'm still caffeine-free even when I'm tired (last night he was up TWICE, the rotter - DH wasn't any help, he did get up after an hour, went to the loo and came back to bed so I had to go back to DS in a foul mood, told him to shut up and sleep so he screamed even more... eventually he went to sleep snuggled up to me in his bed but the second I moved he was crying again... anyway, tonight has to be better.

People ask me if DS is "good" then when I say yes they ask when he started sleeping through. Prior to him sleeping through most nights I would just smile and ask when that meant a baby was good? Of course he's not sleeping through, he's a baby! What a silly thing to ask. All with a smile and looking fab!

BTW, wrt Science of Parenting: a baby who has never cried (I really believe that one) compared to a baby who is in an orphanage from birth and probably not had much cuddling or love. I think no parent here will hit either extreme no matter what they do, but it is saying it is better to show love and respond to a baby's distress than not. So you drop the ball 1% of the time, that isn't going to scar your child for life. Sure, they're in a tizzy with you until they realise YOU MADE A MISTAKE... it happens. Repeatedly making that mistake or punishing your child for your mistakes, that makes a permanent difference. I never punish DS for waking up or leave him to cry it out, but sometimes he is left to cry... I need the loo, I need a quick break, whatever. I make sure that he has lots of love when he's "good" (LOL) and slept well, just as I make myself give him lots of love when I'm tired. He's now very loving (and fabulous, handsome, clever...) and if I'm upset he'll hug me and stroke me then try to snog me... why can't he kiss normally? I've never snogged him. And atm it's a really snotty snog too.

Did you read the last bit of the book? That YOU need to recharge and have someone look after you too? If your needs aren't met you can't meet the needs of your children. So get your DH to give you the odd evening/night off. DH puts DS to bed, he does the whole bath, story, bed routine, 3 nights a week. OK, I do pretty much every night (unless I kick DH out of bed to do it, very rare that works) but I get an hour that is MINE three nights a week. Yes, I wash up and tidy the sitting room in it but it's MY time. I talk to DH about my frustrations with DS and he just listens now (took a lot of training). That's the best thing that happened, not the sleeping improving.

Urg... no fair. It looks like Miss No Sleep is trying to drop back to one nap a day. At night months?! That can't be good for her? DH is actually really worried she's going to suffer unless she sleeps more. And clearly she doesn't cope with it as she has crashed at 4:30pm today and yesterday because of it. Course, she was also awake at 4am this morning (noooo) after going to bed so early. God love her though, obviously mummies grunting let her know it was too early and she just lied down with me and kept stroking my hair and face. :redface:

I'm pretty good with the caffeine - I don't drink coffee and very rarely have tea. Like, once every 6 months rare. I do like my diet coke but drink the caffeine, sugar, everything free one. Chocolate, well no comment. :redface:

We get good days and bad. So far this week we've had two nights of constant waking, and two nights of 3 hour long stretches. I think even a four hour stretch in there somewhere. It's just the day time that sucks... and her not self settling again at night.

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So you drop the ball 1% of the time, that isn't going to scar your child for life.

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That's what I think I worry about. I read The Science of Parenting and because I had such a crappy childhood, I actually came away understanding myself better. All the things it says to not do in the book, my mum did. The whole 'loving in torment' thing REALLY hit home. But of course after reading it all, and knowing how my mum treated me (she lost her cool so often), I worry that if I loose my cool, I'm ruining DD. I worry that if I loose it - cuddle - loose it - cuddle etc... that it's going to be the 'loving in torment' and her fearing she can loose my love.

Of course, when I get a decent sleep, I have patience out the wazoo. When I'm tired, she's usually tired too, she gets upset easier, I have shorter patience etc... all in all not good.

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Did you read the last bit of the book? That YOU need to recharge and have someone look after you too?

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Yeah, but that's a whole other set of problems. DH works in the city and it's a 2+ hour travel time. He's gone at 7 in the morning, home at 7:30pm at night. DD is up at 7 and down at 5:30. Unfortunately too, if he goes in to resettle her, all she does is wake right up. I guess daddy just screams play time. :rolleyes:

Meh, I just don't know..

P.S. Sorry if this reply comes off very whiney/woe is me. Very, very tired today after the 4am wake up. Struggling after only ONE half an hour nap (for her, not me, I was driving when it happened) and generally feeling like a crapola mum at the moment. ** The feeling crap part is due to her taking a flying leap off the couch the other day and it keeps replaying in my head :crying: **

I hear you - my DS decided to do a 5am wake up yesterday and had a really bad night last night, we were up 2-4 with him (plus a quick wake-up at 8.30 and 10), not good. I also hear you about the flying leaps: DS does them onto our hard oak wood floor.

Ignore the feelings atm because you're run down and tell me - do you scream-cuddle-scream OR do you lovingly teach more of the time? It's the "most of the time" your child will remember.

I had a crappy upbringing too, a lot of the "bad" stuff in the book just rings so true for me, and not only are you fighting your tiredness and over-emotionalness atm you're also fighting your memories and how you were taught to parent, which is SO hard to do even on a good day. I make a point of telling DS he's a good boy because he tidied up his ducks after his bath, or he plays so nicely with other children, or he gave way to someone while out walking (not much choice when he's in the pushchair!) because I remember never being told to do XYZ then being told off and disappointing because I didn't do it automatically. (Poor DS thinks that food is a something-please, like a grape-please or an apple-please because I'm keen for him to know what I want rather than me expect a mind-reader when he's 6.)

I don't think I've suggested homeopathy to you! It was a wonderpill for us - it's not working 100% of the time but it does work so well and I thank God for that; I couldn't have continued with being up for 2-3 hours every night plus another 2-3 wake-ups with it. DS did 12 hours straight Tuesday-Wednesday, he is a genius boy! Sure, he doesn't like going off, but most of the time he'll stay down now.

Best of luck to you and I think you're doing a great job, you're having to learn on the job so to speak and it's not easy.

:hug:, It's really hard, I know.

One thing I wanted to say, which may or may not brighten your day :p is that there is no way my DS would go to sleep like Savannah! Unless he's BFing (and even that's only been the last 2 months), 99.9% of the time, when he knows he's being put to sleep he just cracks it big time. There is no way I could lie on the bed with him and he'd actually BE HAPPY! And then nod off! So to me, you're doing really well there :)

If you can do it, I'd recommend giving the diet a go. I'm only recently discovering the foods that make DS crazy, and hate sleep even more than normal LOL. I wish I'd realised earlier.

Ryn, when you say homeopathy, what exactly are you talking about?

Gotta dash, but know that you're not alone :hug:

Homeopathy - homeopathic medicine. A good practitioner will give you a good half-hour (or more) for an interview, ask you general behavioural questions, then prescribe natural tablets accordingly. It isn't a 100% guarentee, just like everything in life, but it did work wonders for us. DS is now happier playing alone too, before he wanted me to join in constantly, and now he just needs me around generally. While needing Mama wasn't something I wanted to fix, or even thought was wrong, it is quite nice I can sit down or talk to friends in the park and he'll play for 10 minutes or so without needing me.

Hi Haydies
Just wanted to pop in and see how your doing :) Any improvments? Stella is still being a buggar during the day(and some of the night!),think it might be teeth but I feel like Im always blaming teeth and they never appear lol!!
I had to laugh at how you said you wait in the garage till she wakes up! I usually keep driving around till the 30mins is up! I have a very good knowledge of our suburb now! :) And with the price of fuel I cant keep doing this!!
Anyway hope your going well x

Hi, I was wondering if I could join this thread. I too have a 6 mth old baby boy who is a "bad sleeper". He has never gotten as much sleep as he "should" but things just seem to be getting worse as he gets older. Our journey has not been easy from the start, huge amount of trouble breastfeeding from the start (milk too slow to come in, dehydrated by the end of week 1, resorted to formula top ups while trying to establish BF, barely any dirty nappies and breast refusal by 8 weeks) So, sadly I ended up putting him on the bottle. So feeding has never been relaxing, he fights the bottle, reflux etc. I don't have BF as a tool to sooth him. He rarely sleeps more than 45min naps, and rarely sleeps more than 2 hrs at a time overnight - but I cant feed him back to sleep, and is normally up for the day 5am-5.30am. I have been existing on 3 to 4 hrs of broken sleep per night and I cant even think clearly any more. We live near my DH's family but they have been unsupportive and judgmental (They think I'm not positive enough, therefore causing DS's problems) but they have no idea what its like to have been sooo sleep deprived for sooo long - to feel like nothing is easy......

Rosehip - We have recently taken him to see a Homeopath, after having no luck with paed, osteo, GP, so fingers crossed.

All that said, I do agree, children like our are never still, there little minds are always ticking over and their little mouths are never quiet, highly intelligent little beings, and we wouldn't swap them for anything!!

Hi Cheekymonkey
Sorry to hear about your struggles with your DS,it sounds like you are an amazing mother and reaIly trying everything to help him.Its sooo hard when you have a 'non-sleeper' and I think you can only truely understand whats it like when you've been there.I hope your family are more helpful than your DH's :)

Your post really made me feel for you about the no BF as a tool for soothing.I sometimes feel abit resentful at having to be the one to go to DD and feed her during the night(I'm BFing) while DH is sound to sleep but to be honest I do use it as a 'quick fix'.So a big well done to you :)

Good luck with the homeopath,hope it helps

Come on in CheekyMonkey, the bed is warm.

I'm going to have a bit of a whinge here, sorry girls. I'm really struggling at the moment, the past couple of days to week Savannah has really thrown sleeping out the window. We're down to one half an hour nap a day, and to top it off, her night sleeping has gone out the window. Three nights in a row she was waking every 20 minutes, and wouldn't let me leave the room again without getting upset. Over night she's been waking every hour, and from 4am onwards just isn't settling. She was up at 5:30am the other morning!

I feel like I'm not getting a break anywhere - she doesn't sleep during the day, she fights sleep going down at night, wakes all night and is up at the crack of dawn. At least give me ONE break somewhere.

To make my life just so much better, my right boob seems to be doing... something. I think it's actually causing a lot of the problems over night. It feels full, like rock hard in some spots, but I don't think it's emptying properly. I have all these hard lumps, but expressing (either via the pump or my hand) does nothing. So I don't think Savannah is getting enough to eat, and thus, not sleeping properly. And of course me, in my tired it's 4am go back to sleep state, don't realise and keep putting her on the same side because "oh, that's the full one".

I'm having a real "I feel like such a failure" day today. A lot of is due to a family get together yesterday which, urg, was not good. Especially with a very old fashioned MIL and a SIL who completely agrees with her. Gee I ticked both of them off yesterday when I didn't bow down and kiss their feet for showing me the light that controlled crying, lots of noise when sleeping and drugging with nurofen where the answers to my prayers.

And then today I wanted Krispy Kreme donuts and she started crying the second we were in the car because she was so tired. Waaaa! No fair! :cryinglaugh:

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think it might be teeth but I feel like Im always blaming teeth

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At the rate I blame teeth, Savannah should have 50 by now!

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BTW, wrt Science of Parenting: a baby who has never cried (I really believe that one) compared to a baby who is in an orphanage from birth and probably not had much cuddling or love. I think no parent here will hit either extreme no matter what they do, but it is saying it is better to show love and respond to a baby's distress than not. So you drop the ball 1% of the time, that isn't going to scar your child for life.

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I think this is the biggest problem (my problem) with reading the Science of Parenting. It made me think that Savannah could never cry. That any time she even started to get distressed (and I mean the real crying, not the sooky whinge crying) that stress chemicals were washing over her brain doing irreparable damage. Then every time I get frustrated or raise my voice a little, I worry that she's "loving in torment" and what that's doing to her. Basically after reading the book I feel like every time I do something it says you shouldn't do, even for 5 seconds, I'm stuffing Savannah up.

Eugh - I had DH away this weekend. DS didn't go to sleep until 9-9.30 both nights. He woke up stupid early too (6.15 and 5.15). But at least only woke up when upstairs went to bed and not all night. I'll admit I did let him do some crying after screaming at him (literally at one point), then felt guilty so went back, kissed him and snuggled down in bed with him. He played for an hour then went off to sleep happily, very little work. But still too late and too much fighting. Then DH came home and he was off to sleep as normal at quarter to eight last night, I hate those boys sometimes.

Drugging up doesn't work. Because baby neurofen has in sugar, E122 and Sunshine yellow, the three biggies for hyperactivity. Give you baby a hyperactive fit just before bed? Yup, that really works. I won't have it in the house. Yes, I give alternatives but VERY rarely; he has pain, he deals with it. Better a bit of pain than a screaming mama in my eyes!

Everyone gets stressed sometimes, adults and babies. OK, so it's not great and not ideal, but it happens. It happens no matter what we do. We just do the best we can. When does a child tell a mother that the best wasn't good enough. Prioritising children over extended family (parents and brothers) shouldn't happen?

If you were letting your child cry for you while you ran around after your mother, who has three other children, two of whom can drive and one of whom is married, still living at home, then that's something you can be accountable for. If you let your (admittedly adult) child cry for you as you dismiss her and buy your brother a house, you will be held to account for that. If you love your child but struggle every once in a while, that's going to be understood and even expected. Not to say we shouldn't strive to do better, but I promise it won't hurt your child.

I'm joining this thread.
I must say I am depressed to read about all your bubs who don't sleep as my DS is only 6 months old & I really really really am living in delusional hope that it will get better....
I don't know how we can live on such little sleep for so long.
One of the above posts really rang true on the mother in law front- they have forgotten what it's like and don't have any understanding of how hard it is to function on next to no zzzzzzz- I would really like my MIL to say I'm doing a good job.....
blech- so depressed...

Hi ladies :)

Just really need to have a whinge...Stella has also decided she doesnt need any sleep during the day now too! It was fine yesterday,she managed to keep a smile on her face all day (although there definatley was not one on mine!) and ended up crashing out about 5ish when we went for a walk (so then of course she wasnt ready to go to bed at 7 aaaagrh!) She'd had about half an hour earlier in the day but it took me an hour just to get that out of her! So today was mothers group at my house and all I wanted was for her to have her usual 30mins before everyone got there so she would be happy (she's almost always the first one to chuck a paddy :( ).Well I only got 20mins from her and I had to spend 45mins trying to get that and I was trying to get myself ready aswell as clean the house and prepare lunch-so stressfull! Anyway she wasnt to bad to start with but then got grizzly and upset. We had been talking about solids and how much they need etc and I said maybe I'll start giving Stella abit more to see if that helps at all...then one of the girls said 'yeah you should cos she's always crying isnt she?' I was crushed :( I know she didnt mean it in a nasty way but I hate that she thinks that of Stella!
So thats my whinge,thanks for listening(well reading :) )

Haydies-you are definatley not a failure in my eyes you are a legend 'cos you started this thread and I cant tell you how nice it is to feel like I've got somewhere to go and vent,and where others understand what I'm going thru,so thanks x

Big :hug: Ness! Why could I live in Perth hey? I so understand the stress you get when you're wanting to do something and you can't get them to settle. I always try to remind myself that housework/showering lol) and everything else can just wait... but when you've got people coming over it's impossible (for me anyway) to not stress about the state of the house etc. Especially when it's other mothers that always seem to have it sorted, you never want to be 'that mother' that looks like she's not coping.

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then one of the girls said 'yeah you should cos she's always crying isnt she?' I was crushed I know she didnt mean it in a nasty way but I hate that she thinks that of Stella!

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Oh no. Even though she didn't mean it nastily, it still hurts to hear something like that. Especially since Stella's not always like that, why can't babies just put on happy faces for visitors lol. I have the same thing with Savannah - at home we're smiles and giggles and happiness. We go out and she just glares at everyone haha.

I'd love solids to be part of our answer, but Savannah is just not interested. We're getting better, for example she ate half a piece of toast this morning and yesterday, and she like her Savoys (one a day), but that's all I can get into her at the moment.

Apply and Blueberry cereal (jar) got a good go once, but the next two days she would have one taste and then not want anymore. Everything else is getting the same treatment - comes in mouth open, tastes, then burries her face into my shoulder for every attempt after that.

If only I could stuff her little belly full she might want a sleep, I know I always do LOL.

I'm currently sitting here listening to Savannah hiccup in the other room lol. Daddy is in with her. She crashed at 3:30pm this afternoon!! She stirred four times between then and now, but lol it's 10:30pm and she's already had 7 hours sleep! Oh boy what time will she wake up in the morning? :rolleyes:

Course, was mostly my fault (yes, her sleeping can also be my fault lol. I've been sooooo tired this past week than when she shut her eyes at 3:30, which I thought was going to be our second! nap for the day, I let out this huge sigh of relief and BAM, I was out like a light. The downside of co-sleeping, I lay down for naps too. :lol:

Savannah woke after her 30 minutes, almost to the second, but came in for cuddles and within a minute or two was drifting back off to sleep.... as was I haha. I ended up waking again just after 5pm and snuck out of bed.

At least the good thing is she's happy in there at the moment. Awake, and hiccuping (so cute), but not crying or grizzling. Just happy to lie there with daddy, every now and then making little tired talking noises.

I think we should declare this thread our little venting thread. We can be our own 'babies who fight sleep' group. :D

Welcome to our 'group' lullabyblue heh. :hug: Although I'm going through a particularly 'bleh' stage with Savannah's sleeping at the moment, we have had good times as well. Not many mind you, and she's never "slept through", but I've had a week here, a week there, etc where she's gone down at 6pm at night and only woken once before I headed to bed myself. I love those nights. I want more of them lol.

Of course, it's kinda sad that I think of a 'good' nights sleep as only waking twice heh.

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Drugging up doesn't work. Because baby neurofen has in sugar, E122 and Sunshine yellow, the three biggies for hyperactivity. Give you baby a hyperactive fit just before bed? Yup, that really works. I won't have it in the house. Yes, I give alternatives but VERY rarely; he has pain, he deals with it. Better a bit of pain than a screaming mama in my eyes!

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Thankyou, thankyou THANKYOU for posting about those ingredients! DH did the dreaded "well maybe you should try it if it works for SIL" last night, and when I read this out he was like "oh, she's not having it!"

I don't like giving any sort of 'drugs' to Savannah if I can help it. I'm the same with my own body. Unless of course it's really bad, but I don't want to just shove panadol into her when ever she grizzles or if I think she's in pain. I even hold back on the Bonjela and really, only give it at night and only if she's appearing to be really struggling. If I dove straight for the panadol (or nurofen) every time I thought her teeth hurt, she'd be permanently drinking it.

A cold facewasher, a teething ring, a rusk, a packet of frozen pees, my boob - all get a go before I turn to the medicine cabinet. Then again, maybe people look at me as horrendously cruel (as my SIL did) because I don't automatically numb her discomfort.

Good idea Haydies - I decided to make a social group for us all so we can have a general chat there.

If you don't know about social groups, click on "user profile" (just under the BB logo at the top left) then social groups on the left hand menu.

Housework, btw - I keep the sitting room clean and close all the other doors! See, I'm super-mum!

Hi Ladies

So hows everyone going? I have to say things have been abit better here (dare I speak to soon!).I always feel abit better at the start of the week having had DH home on the weekend (he works away during the week).Yesterday DH took Stella in the morning so I could have a sleep in (yay!) and she had 40mins when he put her down for nap,then just after lunch I put her down for a nap,she went to sleep without a fuss and slept for 1hour and a half!! Im not complaining but what the?! Anyway she's back to the 30min sleeps today but her nights are slowly improving.I've been giving her 3 meals a day and she loves her food,still no sleep thru but she seems to be able to get from 6.30pm till about 10.30pm with only a few cries for the dummy which is a big improvement for her! I feed her then she'll go til about 4/5am so I have hope that one day she'll get there :)

Well hope you're all well x

Hi girls!

Well things are 'ok' at this end. Not fantastic, not super bad. Last night was a shocker with Savannah waking every hour since she went to bed. Of course, after only having one half an hour nap at 10am in the morning, it was no surprise she was so over tired. That doesn't make it any more frustrating, especially since I had stuff to do last night. And daddy just wasn't cutting it last night, it was all mummy time...

That said, the night before last she only woke once!

DH also took Savannah on Monday morning and I got another hour and a half sleep! Course, our solids have gone completely out the window the past two days. She was doing so well last week, but hasn't wanted anything since Friday.

@Cheekymonkey - Replied to you in the social group thingy. *hugs*

Oh yes, P.S. Savannah is now walking, like everywhere! Only started on Friday, and she's been practicing all weekend. So that might contribute to no interest in food?