What would you do? love some opnions

Before i go into details i would like to state a few things as i realise this is a heated topic! ANd i would also like to state that i am going to tell the story of a very traumatic experience with my first birth, i do NOT wish to put women off having a VB nor scaremonger so please DONT read on if you dont wish to know what i went through and if you do please realise that my VB is not how VB usually goes. I totally advocate natural birth.
Also I realise that VB VS CS is a very heated topic i dont want to get into risk factors etc, please know that i have done my homework and am well aware of the stats. I really dont want any negative discussion in here i truly want a heart felt desicion on what you would do if you were in MY situation. There are alot of ladies who have wonderful, positive birth experiences and i totally would appreciate what you have to say, i would just ask that for this instence you put your own experience aside and truly aprreciate how fearful and awful my experience was.
Now if i havent scared everyone off this is my story:
My son was induced at 14 days past his due date adn still showing no signs of wanting to enter the world, i started having contractions at 7.30pm and was fine till the next morning when i was taken up to the birthing suite, i was soon put on oxytocin and offered an epidural once the very hard core contractions started from the drip, it took 3 goes to get the epidural in due to my scoliosis, again i managed quite nicely, not sure why but i was still very aware of contractions and got up to go to the loo so not sure what the epi was doing. A bit later my BP started to drop and they had to put a fluid drip in and not long after that DS started having distress and ob was called and all too quickly an episotomy, vacumn extraction, DS was also posterior and had no intention of changing. He was given to me to hold and as soon as i had him in my arms he was taken away again as hewasnt breathing properly. DS was born at 12.30 and i left the birthing suite at 5pm all the time i was being stitched and restiched as the 3rd degree tear had gone through to my rectum. The whole time they were trying to figure out why DS wasnt breathing properly, when i finally got down to special care i found out he had a punctured lung. he spent 3 days in a humdi ccrib and i expressed milk for him. The following weeks included infections, cystitis, thrush and finally the removal of the stiches as they felt they were imparing the healing. When it did heal i had to have skin tags burnt off as it hadnt healed together properly. It was almost a year to fully recover and get back to normal. I am pregnant again :dance: whcih has taken a very long time and fertility treatment including an ectopic in the meantime, but in that time i have spoke to the ob who birthed my son, the ob who looked after me when i had my ectopic and now the ob i have for this child, they have all told me a CS is the best option, the reason being a very short perineal area. My current ob even with all my history agreed to let me have a VB until she examined me and then said she really wouldnt recommend it.
I have researched this topic to death (and have had some help, thanks Hoobley ;)) but it seem the figures just stack up, either way seems to come with there own set of risks and i really couldnt bear to go through what i did before, so i know if the ob said induction i would definately opt for a CS. So really i i would just love some opnions (not stats) what would you do a Vb or and elective CS? Thank you so much if youve taken the time to read this very long post.

oh scooby that is traumatic what you have been through :hug:

I will give you my opinion only as I had similar issues to deal with. With my first I was 14 days post EDD with no signs of things moving along, in fact I went in for induction with gels & they couldn't do it as she was no where near the cervix. 2 days later she was and I was induced with gels, overnight I started having small contractions and movement, in the morning I was put on a drip and felt like I was hit by a truck. It was horrid, I wound up with an epidural which dropped my bp really low, they had to turn the epi off and I was feeling contractions but unable to move for hours. Lucky for me, DD1 was going okay. After 4 hours of playing with the epi & sintocin things stopped moving, after 4 more hours I was asked to have a c/s. 4 hours later I had one. The c/s was.... so traumatic after all the issues with an induced labour and the epidural not on, when the spinal went in my bp dropped again. I felt the first 4 minutes of the c/s and went into shock.

What happened to both of us is traumatic, so it obviously sways our decisions. The second time around I fought kicking and screaming for a natural birth. Jovie was 11 days post EDD and an empowered VBAC, not entirely naturalas I had pethadine early on to ward off feelings of panic because of the past birth.

All I can say is research for yourself & get yourself a birth advocate, for whatever you choose.

Hi Scooby
I'm still waiting for my baby so my two cents may not be worth a great deal. But I think that you have done all the research and looked at all the risks, you have to ask yourself which risks you feel you can live with this time around. All the options have risks and downsides, and you have to decide which option you can feel the most comfortable and safe with.
Personally (while as I said I don't have personal experience yet) this is one of my worst birth fears, so if it was me in your shoes, I think I would choose the cs. That is just what I think would make me feel safer if I was in your position.
Ask yourself what you think you can feel safe with, and then don't let anyone sway you. I have seen some of your other threads get hijacked with the whole cs v vb debate and I'm sorry people can't seem to understand what you're asking.
but I think you're very brave and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.
:hug::hug::hug:

Scooby love, that's a really traumatic situation and a really difficult choice.

What would I do? I'd opt for a CS over another induction, but maybe book it for 40-41w? Can you do that? I'd be really scared of tearing again with a "big" baby.

I know for me I'm not going anywhere near a hospital again: if I had to then I'd either lock the door and not let the midwives/obs in or I'd just go straight for a CS.

Best of luck with this very difficult decision.

Best of luck with such a difficult decision :hug:.

I have no idea what I would do...

Scooby love,do what you most feel comfortable with,but after all the problems of what you went through,I would strongly consider the CS, I`ve had four vg births, not all good experiences either,but my fifth bub had to be a CS,I?m now ever so glad I listened to my OB. Good luck hun.:hug:

scooby, what an emotional decision you have to make. :hug:
I have 8 years between my DD and DS. DD was a hugely emotional emergency c/s for me, and even now, almost 9 years later on, it still gets me angry and upset. I had wanted so desperately to have a VBAC this time round, got my medical records and took to our OB, who I had heard was VBAC friendly, and he said a big NO and I should have a c/s.
The day of our planned c/s (at 39 weeks) I rocked up to the hospital to book in, only to find that I was 8cms dilated! My OB checked me over (my first physical exam with him) and he said he thought i might be able to try a VBAC if I wanted. They couldn't do a c/s yet, as there were no paed for bub, so I went to the labour ward. A couple of hours later they found a paed. and called to see if I wanted to have the c/s or attempt a VBAC.

I was at a complete loss. I was being handed the opportunity to attempt the VBAC I had wanted so much, but I was absolutely **** scared it would end up the same way as my DD's birth, so I chose the c/s. I knew at that moment that if my VBAC ended up being a c/s, that I wouldn't be able to deal with it emotionally.
For me, I hadn't felt support from my DH or OB during my pregnancy for a VBAC, so why should I believe the pair of them in the labour room when they were saying how they thought I could now do it?

In the end, it came down to my emotions at that moment in time, and it was such a huge decision to make. I hope you can get some wonderful answers and guidance here to help you make your decision...goodluck with it all

Nic

I'm sorry if what I posted was inappropriate... I will leave it but if you want it moved scooby please PM me.

I guess for me I had to go for a VBAC, but it was my decision to make and my battle to fight. :hug: goodluck for your decision

Wow that sounds just horrendous.
I am neither for or against either side of the debate, but having a baby isn't supposed to do your head in. It's not about feeling guilty or like you've failed. It's about bringing a new life into the world. Being terrified because you 'should' go one way is silly.
I'd be opting for the C-sec in your shoes. Like RHF said maybe ask for a later one, or

scooby I'm really sorry you had such a horrid time of it and I completely understand why you're so scared. :hug:

I'm going to answer you the way you asked, and tell you what I would do if I had that experience the first time. For me, I would plan for another vaginal birth, I would get myself the ballsiest, bulldog of a doula I could find and I would refuse to be induced for any "just in case" reason while ever my baby was healthy.

Without minimising what you went through, your story is one that is seen a fair bit with induced labours and epidurals (aside from what you're poor little man went through...obviously that doesn't happen every day...thank goodness). Nearly every thing you've described there is interelated. Even at nearly 42 weeks, if your baby is doing well it's still OK to wait. Inductions with first babies are often pretty torrid experiences :hug:

Only you can make this decision. I guess too I come from a place where I have experienced a vaginal birth and a really horrid caesarean...I dont' have any physical scars or side effects from my VB, but I still have side effects from the c/s above and beyond the usual belly scar.

Good luck hun.

scooby, i can understand your indecision. i didn't have as traumatic a time as you, but had an episiotomy that took 9 months to close and has healed 'messy'.
this has been on my mind too, as i get closer to birth, and for me, it is a matter of being more afraid of a CS. my midwife is supportive of me trying to avoid being cut, and helping me stretch thru massage and hot compresses and tear naturally if unavoidable.
i can see tho, if i had all the other complications you did, a CS would be more appealing. i would just make it clear that you want as much contact with your bub as possible, as early as possible. my DS was also only given to me for a short while due to being a bit 'flat', and while he was ok and didn't leave the room, i felt that i missed out.
i hope that helps and that you have a better experience this time around

I'm really sorry, but I can't help you either way.
I had 3 vb's & after reading some stories on here they were all great.
I also had no stitches, so I can't empathise with you there either.
I think maybe you could book the c/s after your due date. You might get the chance to go naturally, & then you might have the choice.You can see how you go with the labour & if it gets too much go up for the c/s.
I don't know what I'd do. Well to be honest, I'd probably go for the c/s.
I hope you work it out soon.
Goodluck. Sorry I wasn't much help.

Personally hun I would be asking for a later c/s, ie. when you are overdue. this way you still have the choice right up to the date of your scheduled C/S. Do some perineal massage to help your body stretch. and if you use lubricant or olive oil it softens the skin and muscle and allos a LOT more stretch. I tore with my 1st and only grazed with my second but my second was much more rushed.

I think the majority of your issues were caused by the induction, which takes you from 0-100 in a matter of minutes, whereas if you go into labour naturally it is much less intense. you can ask for regular monitoring to make sure everything is OK.

Dont feel guilty hun, the prize is the baby, and the birth is just the way to meet the baby, it doesn't matter which way it comes out, as long as you are happy and healthy.

Think and talk about your options with DH, maybe look into a birth debrief, and most of all, do what you feel is best for you and your family. You are the ONLY one that can make that decision and everyone will respect your choice.

Short and sweet ... If I were you, I'd have the elective c/s as near to due date as possible.

I had a c/s, can't have a VBAC although I would love one. But if my first birth has gone the way yours have, I would definatly be scared and horrified that it would happen again. And I would think that having to heal and deal with a traumatic birth AND a baby to care for is hard work, but having a baby and a young kid may be harder. More attention that needs to be shared, less time for mommy ;) ykwim!

You can always leave the decision to around 36 weeks ?? :dunno: Talk with your ob. He'll also have some good prof advice :)

hey christy, I hope you didn't think I was suggesting your post was inappropriate - not at all. I was talking about a couple of other threads that scooby has posted on. sorry if it came out wrong....

All I can say is OMG, you should be so proud that you have managed to overcome SO much to even consider a VB again after everything!

If you want my opinion (and this is from a person who has had a successful VB with induction and never a c-sec), then I would probably go for a c-sec. You have had 3 separate obs all recommend it and after such a horrific time, I personally could not find the courage to even consider going back for a VB.

You said you have done the research so you know what both options entail. Again, you are an amazingly strong woman to even contemplate another VB IMO. Do what feels right for you and please, don't let anyone pressure you into doing something you aren't sure about.

Good luck!

Hi Scooby

Statistics are one thing but our feelings are more important. There is no point going through the pregnancy being scared of the birth so I think I would try to work out what makes me less scared and go with that.

It's a very personal decision and not one that you have to justify to anyone else.

I think your main concern is the tearing and the fact that you've been told that you have a short perineal area. Unfortunately, that's a topic that I know nothing about so I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes but I'm strongly leaning towards the caesar.

I'm not in the exact same situation but one that is fairly similar. I had pelvic instability with DD from 28 weeks. During the labour I pushed for 2.5 hours with my legs up against my chest which was followed by forceps. This was the absolute worst way of delivering a baby with pelvic instability (which I didn't know at the time). As a result, I was in pain for six months after DD's birth and almost lost my relationship.

Now, to me I look at those facts and the thought of having to go through the six months of pain (on top of the pain throughout the pregnancy) makes me seriously consider having a caesarean next time around if my choice was caeasarean or prolonged pushing/forceps. The 'good' thing for me is that I'll obviously be able to opt for a trial by labour but if the baby gets stuck, I think if I was given a choice I'd go for a caesar rather than forceps. Not because having forceps was horrible, it wasn't, but I think it added to the pain of the pelvic instability afterwards. I weigh up six weeks of pain from the caesar and six months of pain from the pelvic instability and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what I'd prefer.

Your situation is different in that the birth could go well but you could still tear at the end and by that stage you won't have a choice of alternatives.

As I said before, the medical facts are one thing, but how you feel is as/more important so don't disregard your emotions, listen to them.

:grouphug: Thank you all soo much for taking the time to reply and reading my long post, this is an issue that is really doing my head in and i know its not anyones descion but mine, but your feedback and opnions are so valuable too me and give me alot to think about. Christy your post was fine :hug: thanks i do agree and someone said a VB could be very healing for me, which i think it was for you, and i must admit is one of the reasons id love a VB. I think because of having IVF etc. i feel everything has been so medically derived and i have had no input IYKWIM another reason why i want a VB, but i am really scared! I still have so much thinking to do but i sincerely thank you all for your posts, BB and all its wonderful members have held me up through some difficult times, i feel so lucky to have found it! Again thank you all

Scooby :hug:

If i were ME in your situation (i can't really pretend i understand you as fully as you do! ;)) i'd be thinking about the following:

Does the scoliosis mean future bubs will present OP too? Sometimes labour doesn't start because babies are not descending well and sometimes they do not descend well because they are posterior.

The perineum i honestly wouldn't (as me) be concerned about because as we now know, ;), mine is also very short and i only had a little nick that i didn't even bother getting stitched. I would however be VERY concerned about being cut, because as i found in the articles we discussed on the other thread, it is considered by many to be inexcuseably bad clinical practice to perform an epi on a woman with a short perineum. So i'd want to have an ob who would NOT cut me. This might be hard to find if the baby is indeed going to be OP and not descend...

How afraid do i feel? How much does vaginal birth (as opposed to un-traumatic birth) matter to me at this point in time? After a very traumatic experience perspectives can change. Women who had a successful and even easy vaginal birth like me cannot HOPE to understand how it feels to have been through what you have, and equally a woman who lost her baby, or a year of her health, will have entirely different views of what to her makes a "good" birth.

The newborn pneumothorax i wouldn't think about - why? It can happen. It can happen after a straight-forward vaginal birth, after a section, after forceps. It's caused by the huge pressures inside the chest during those initial first breathing efforts rupturing the small airsacs of the lungs and allowing the air into the chest cavity. It happens to 1-2% of babies, and nothing much makes any difference. Some babies need no treatment beyond oxygen and time, others need a needle aspiration to re-inflate the lung. It is hugely unlikely to happen to your next bub and nothing you can do or not do will make any difference.

So, if this were my decision to make.... I'd wait and make no decision yet.

I would wait for labour to start and see how things went.

IF bubs was still OP by term despite my best efforts to turn them, i'd wait and if i went overdue enough that i needed an induction i would ONLY allow a Foley's catheter induction (which is reversible and needn't progress to full-blown chemical medical induction). If the Foley induction failed but the placenta was failing (and i'd want to check it WAS and not assume it from the dates) i'd have a section rather than risk the induction.

If progression was slow during labour and baby was OP and not descending well i'd definitely walk and crawl and NOT have an epidural. If it came to me needing an epidural i'd have a section to protect my perineum from the damage made FAR more likely by not being able to push well and possibly needing an instrumental delivery again (which i believe was what was at the root of many of your difficulties post birth).

Basically hun i would plan for and aim for as unmedicated a vaginal birth as possible, avoiding epidural/narcotics/back-laying/coached pushing/ALL intervention and IF and when i was forced to deviate very much from that path, i would have a section.

Lots of good thoughts and love

Bx

If I were in your shoes I would def go the CS. No question.

My vaginal birth was a little traumatic too (long 1st stage, prolonged 2nd stage, episiotomy, tear, shoulder distocia & vac extraction) even though I'd gone into labour spontaneously. I did not have any of the problems you had post birth (back to normal 3 weeks later) yet I still think I'd be leaning towards CS if I found myself UTD again.

I think you've done extremely well to face your fears and actually get pregnant again, it's something I just can't face even though I'd love another child and my clock is well and truly ticking.

Thanks Satya and Hoobley. :hug:
Saw my ob again and voiced my concerns/ opnions as she did hers. I must admit she was very understanding and said at the end of the day its my descion and she will do everything necessary to support that. But (isnt there always a but) she really pushed the CS again, saying that she has never seen such a short perineum and what would be a graze to someone else would be at least a 2nd degree tear with me. She also said an epi is just not an option as there is no where to go with it! She said if i labour before scheduled cs (16th of Jan, EDD 26th Jan) she is more than happy to let me go, not sure if i want to be wishing for a pre term bub though. So as for now im leavin it at that, i seriously cant have anymore sleepless nights over this :wall: i look at both ways and i just see no way out. And Satya, i do often wonder if my need for fertility assisstance this time had something to do with a psychological effect of my previous experience, as with DS i fell preg straight away, who knows how the mind works and they never could find any reason for my sub fertility?
Hoobley, KWYM about the pneumothorax, was just one of those things, it was more the 4.5 hours of them trying to stitch me up that was the worst because i couldnt be with DS and they really didnt know at that stage what was wrong with him.
Well i aslo had a scan and placenta hasnt moved from right over the top of my cervix so maybe i wont have to make a choice? ( But still very hopeful of it moving ;))
Again thanks so much i do really appreciate such educated opnions. Thanks

Hi Scooby,

For my two cents worth, I reckon that if in your heart of hearts you want to try for a VB, then you should give it a go (depending on whether your placenta has moved). I think that's what I'd do, anyway. You had a really traumatic first birth, so it's understandable you're hesitant to go down the same path. However if your thoughts/emotions keep taking you back to another VB, then maybe that's the way you should go. Just make sure your support team is 110% behind you.

Good for you on doing your research - I take my hat off to you. Nothing beats being informed and knowing your choices/options.

Just wanted to add one other thing. I know zip about short perineums but has your OB given you any idea about how likely is it to tear if you don't need any assistance? Is your bub likely to be larger than average? Could lots of perineal massage/hot compresses during labour help it to stretch for your bub therefore minimizing tears? Sorry if this is naive thinking, like I said, I'm not sure about all the implications of a short perineum. Just a thought, anyway.

Good luck, but for me the bottom line is you do what you feel is right for you and your bub.

Andie

i am so sorry you experienced that birth, you are a very brave woman to even think of having another baby! Without a doubt if i were in your situation there would be no choice, i would have an elective c/s. I wish you all the luck in the world with this birth, i hope you have a positive experience this time round.

Just wanted to say Hoobley good thinking on the op thing must ask ob if the scolosis could be a cause for that position, i know last ime it wasnt mentioned, only when they tried to get the epidural in.
Andie: i did ask the ob about prep of the perineum as she seems quite a big promoter of epi-no, but she said there is just so little skin to stretch that it wont make a huge difference. I did do some prep before DS, but i think the circumstances had more to do with it than prep but so confused i really dont know. As for the support team family and friends are very much of the "why would you want to go through that again" opinion including DH. ( i think he was more teriified than i was during the whole thing, plus the great lack of sex for almost a year after the birth :lol:)
Widdy; thanks for such kind thoughts.:hug: