struggling with recurrent loss

Not sure what i hope to get out of this post. Maybe just to talk if anyone will listen.Particularly to those who have been through several losses - how you keep on coping
I have recently suffered my fourth m/c , with a total loss of 6 babies (past 2 m/c's were twins). I am desperately awaiting any possible medical explanation,following cytogenetics, but having been there before, i will not be suprised if there are no answers. I have had all the tests, laparoscopies etc etc etc
Its a real killer, having no answers. After the first 2 unexplained losses, I kind of accepted the "bad luck" scenario. However, now its all getting a bit to much. I cannot accept "bad luck" anymore and I am just so tired, mentally and physically, of the constant heartbreak.
I would have to say this loss is probably one of the worst. I just never expected to be in such a small minority of women to lose so many babies. I cannot ignore it anymore. 6 babies is just not within the realms of "acceptable/expected" pregnancy loss for one person. I think it is also harder because i now know what I've got to go through (especially menatlly) before i will come out the other side. I don't want to face all that grief again. I've done it to many times and I just don't want to go there again. This is like a nightmare version of Groundhog Day just replaing over and over again.
In the past, I would spend hours reasearching possible causes and treatment, looking for answers and hope. Now, I am just to tired. I want someone else to tell me what i need to do to get the baby i so desperately want.
I don't concieve naturally either, which just adds to the whole package. I truly don't mind the medical intervention if it gets me what i want but the endless rounds of hormones, scans, bloods etc etc are becoming a drain. So much rides on each cycle and yet even getting the ,much longed for "pregnant" result, doesn't bring me the joy it would to most. I now see it as a relief that at least I've passed the first hurdle but then the endless waiting, hoping and praying just goes on and on, only to be crushed brutally with yet more dead babies.
I know I'm beginning to ramble now but wondering if anyone else "gets" this?
Ironically, just as this gets tougher with each loss, the support seems to dwindle.
Barely any of my family/friends have contacted me this time around. I guess people just expect me to lose babies now and don't realise that it certainly doesn't get any less painful. Most people avoid me for fear of not knowing what to do or say but couldn't they at least acknowledge the death of our babies?
I will keep trying, there is no doubt, until I get that baby but how many more losses will that take? Can I really do it? I wish there was that elusive answer!

I have only had 2 losses so I can't really offer you any advice but I could read and not post.. so I thought i would drop off a :hug:

I don't know the answer for you but I do know I am here - whenever you need it. Too far away for a shoulder and a hug but not that far away. You were my inspiration with a breech delivery. I can only hope to offer you the same support :hug:

As for where to go next - I guess it depends on what tests you have already had and what your specialists are aware of management wise. Then it is a case of will you travel or can you do a phone consult (Dr S for example). What are you prepared to take etc.

I am so sorry you are losing your babies. I wish I had answers for you. But you can do this - with all the support you need :hug:

Meredith, also offering a listening ear and a virtual shoulder and a degree of understanding of what it is to lose babies after going through assisted conception. :hug:

I can't add much more to what Michelle has already said, but I did want to let you know that you are never far from my thoughts even though the real world around you may be pushing you into the too hard basket.

BW

Meredith I'm so sorry that support in real life has dwindled. I wish I could say or do something to ease your pain hun. I'm thinking of you , and praying that some answers are revealed for you soon. :comfort: Wish I could deliver that in person x

:comfort: Oh Sweetheart... :hug::hug:
You know that I know where you are and it's a dark dark place - one that I sometimes find myself thrust back into - there is a piece of our heart that belongs to each of our goodbye babies that many people just don't understand.

After my 3rd mid tri loss - it was only those really really close to me that enveloped me in their arms. Even DH thought I would just be fine. I was used to this right? Wrong.

I understand that feeling of knowing how long and hard the journey is through this grief and just not even wanting to go there again. I truly understand this my love and I empathise from the bottom of my heart. :hug:

Practically - you have had all the tests - but have you had the NK cell test from DR S? As gorgeous Michelle said you have to decide how far you will go. Only DR S will do the endometrial biopsy that counts each NK cell - I went to a lecture by him on this. He has a pathologist that works for him and those NK cells are counted manually - no machines. It's arduous but I believe this is where he gets his more definitive result.

You know too that there are many many conditions that we just don't have tests for or answers for. Many of the conditions we know of now weren't heard of 5 years ago. It is arrogant of any doctor to say "your tests are clear it's bad luck". Having said that your losses haven't been consecutive - this is something that may be used as the "just bad luck" line. I was fortunate (if you could call it that. :redface:) that my 6 losses were consecutive - it made the docs sit up and take notice.

You are an educated assertive woman - don't let anyone tell you this is bad luck if your gut is saying that. Cling to the hope that you have a beautiful son who has made it through all of this. If you do it once you can do it again.

How do you get through? It's different for us all. For me I was doggedly determined. I was not going to take no - I believed that in time the pain would go to a place inside me that I could open and look at and close again - or at the very least wouldn't engulf me with the most hideous of grief that it did initially. I was right.
YOu need support - make sure you lean on us. YOu need answers - decide how far you will go and go that far and a little more. Believe. You have to believe that this baby/s is coming to you - visualise him/her with you. Belief is the most important thing.

I wish I could give you a hug in person, and support you in person. But I am here - whenever you need me I am here. :hug:

Dear Meredith,

Again i am so sorry for your losses and i am more sorry that the support is not there as it should be. With each loss the pain is just as great as the first, each baby holds hopes and our dreams and then crash bang its all over and when you also need AC it does at to the burden i know. Meredith all i can offer you is a big fat :hug: and take time out for yourself hun, believe that one day it will happen that the only way i keep going. I have heard alot about this Dr S so maybe he is worth seeing - please know we are all here for you sweetie. You will find strength again when YOU are ready.

Hey PM Pal

Just letting you know I am still here for you! :hug:

Good luck with your phone consult with Dr S.

Luv WTH x

Meredith
I am so sorry...I totally get everything you have said...I never got any answers as to why I lost my babies...all the testing came back clear...not a single hint at what it could be. I hope you get some answers and as for family and friends...they just don't get it do they? I ended up being really blunt with people in the end..."so I'm guessing I haven't heard from you for ages because you didn't know what to say about us losing another baby"...harsh but felt good and allowed for some very 'open' communication!
Anytime you want to talk, vent,scream...I'm here...you couldn't say anything that I haven't said or thought at some point! You have every right to feel the way you are feeling...look after YOU!!!

hey...
i could not go past and not post. You bought tears to my eyes...Part of what you wrote is so true for me also. Even tho i have just suffered my 2nd late loss (22weeks) and i can't even grasp the reality of that happening yet, much less cope with all that you have been through. You actually have amazing strength, and i know that you don't feel that right now but you do, just to come and vent and question everything shows that! You have some fight in you left and i really believe we need to hold strong to that so we get through. Even in our worst moments.I come on here everytday as i am afraid if i don't i will lose that strength to eventually want to try again. I need to be around people who are "my sameness". i am waiting on test results and hope with all my heart that they tell us SOMETHING! my background is that i have had 2 completely healthy pregnancies and kids and then have gone through these 2 losses. They can't understand what may have changed when i am still as healthy (as far as i am aware!:rolleyes:) as i have always been and there is no history in our familes at all of any major disabilites or illnesses. I too am so desperate to hold a baby in my arms again and i am coming up against the "you have 2 healthy kids already" jibe, and i am 1000% thankful for them but does that mean i can't express the heartache at losing 2 kids and the dreams i had for them and that I LOVED from the start as much as the 2 that lived. There is something in people that cannot connect to that. I can't imagine being shut out from people in your life after that many losses either, if anything they should be even more supportive, really! I found out who my true friends were when i lost jack but have to agree i feel much lonelier this time losing madison. It IS as though people think, shes done it before, she'll get through again...not so easy! I NEVER expected this to happen again. Then one friend i did open up to, i realised was asking questions to set aside her own curiosity rather than to help me talk about it. I felt so stupid for allowing her to see the beauty of Madison and not seeing why she was doing it! People keep saying how strong i am...if they saw me at night when my family are in bed and my emotions do finally catch up with me in the quietness...they would all see the truth of my heartbreak, anger and disbelief in this place we are put through!
Sorry to hijack your post - i wanted you to know that you are not alone in your thoughts and if you ever need someone please pm me! sending you so many :hug:
x jo

:hug: Jo - you are right all of us who have said Goodbye are so strong. And I hear you on the assumption that it's somehow not as bad when you already have children. I too heard that.

The world just doesn't seem to get that each grief is a mountain for the Mama involved. It's huge. And coming in here to as you said "the sameness" is one way to help ease the pain.:hug:

I'm so sorry for your losses Meredith.

I truly hope you can get the professional medical attention you deserve. Maybe you can find a doctor who'll try some treatment. Even though you have clear tests as Flowerchild said there are conditions out there yet to be identified, and maybe some preventative blood thinners or something might help.

I'm so sorry people in your life aren't recognising the magnitude of your loss. Rest assured there is lots and lots of support and hugs for you here :hug:

Love Rozzie

Thanks ladies. Its sadly comforting to know that there are at least a few other women who have been where I am. I just wish there were none of us.
Jo and Flowerchild - yep, having a child/children somehow is supposed to compensate for everything. If one more person tells me "just look at your beautiful son" or "at least you can get pregnant", I swear i am going to lose it!! Of course I am forever grateful for my precious boy. Doesn't mean I am any less sad about losing another child! And, yes, I do fall pg, albeit not "easily" but that doesn't get me anything when I just lose babies.

Michelle, BW and FC - I have a phone appt with Dr s next Thurs. I made the appt last week thanks to all your suggestions. Will see what he has to say but really still have to wait on results from these babies. If they were normal then I will certainly be pushing for pred. I am already using Clexane.
if results show another trisomy then will probably do PGD but I would still feel more comfortable adding in pred as well.
Just wish I could start trying again tomorrow. I know that is the only thing that will bring me "back", so to speak! Will probably be an agonisingly long wait, however. My HCG was 264,000 a few days prior to D&C and still feeling very sadly pg almost 2 weeks later. My HCG being that high then the suddeness of the loss is probably why I don't really expect genetic cause. It really seems to me that the babies were growing just as they should but were suddenly "killed". I don't know, I could be totally wrong. its just my "feeling'.

Meredith, a very wise woman once talked me into listening to my gut feelings. She said they were rarely wrong, and she's right. We didn't find the full answer to my problems all at once, but listening to my gut feeling and going with what I thought best for my situation turns out to have worked. I think it's important to keep in mind that even though the people you consult may be doctors and experts in their field, the ONLY person who is an expert in YOUR body is you. As soon as you start to vary even slightly away from normal or start combining different health problems, you really need to become an expert in things yourself and take the bits of advice from each doctor that you feel best fit your situation. Fortunately, most people don't need three different specialists just to keep them healthy!

Good luck with Dr S. He truly is an amazing man and you will certainly come away from that phone consult feeling like you have been heard and listened to. I hope he has some helpful suggestions for you.

BW

Meredith, hun.

I have lost one baby and that's one too many and so can only imagine you pain. I wish i could be there and hold your hand through all this.

Many people, how unfortanate as it is don't really find early losses that tragic (i have experienced from my recent m/c too). They tell me i am being silly and so forth when i cry and remember my little bub. Just accept people for what they are. I'm sure you have friends that DO care (incl. all of us here on BB) and know that we and they are with you every step of the way. We cry, when you cry, we laugh, smile and celebrate when you do. We are all your friends here. I know that people here do care about lifes ups and downs.

It seems unfair how life seems to deals us the bad hand all the time but we need to be strong to overcome these hurdles. These hurdles will make you stronger. Try and be positive and push the negative energy away.

I am sure you will fall pregnant it's just a matter of time. My gf had all sorts of problems when TTC, multiple m/c (about 5-6 icl. twins), ectopic pregnancy, pre-eclampsia related stillborn at about 32-34 weeks and now she has 2 healthy bubs. Try and remain focussed and positive. Don't give up!

I hope you find real answers real soon.

xxooxx:hug:

Meredith,
My Goodbye Babies taught me about gut feelings. That was their lesson (or at least one of them ;)) to their Mama. :(

If your feeling is that you need to go a particular way - do it. Don't falter, don't swerve. You have to do it.
I funnelled my grief into action - that was my way. I became a bit frenzied :redface: I spent hundreds of hours learning, buying research papers and reading. On reflection - it was quite fanatical... :cryinglaugh:
But, it was my way. Not wrong or right but Deb's way.
You will find your way, but as you do listen to that little voice that we all have - that intuition because in my experience it is never wrong. :comfort:

My intuition was ignored and Caitlyn is not here. I followed my instinct and I have Oscar. Trust yourself and what you feel. Like Deb, I researched and studied and sought and found so much stuff that I amaze myself with what I have learned :o

You need to do whatever it takes to get you through this time. Allow yourself to grieve and use that beautiful intensity and dedication to achieving your dream - another beautiful baby like L. Here if you need anything - including research ;)

Oh Meredith, I feel like I've been through your last two losses with you as I've followed your journey through various threads.

I have no clever answers or solutions but I just wanted to let you know that I understand your grief, anger, loneliness and desperation.

I've heard the "at least you can get pregnant" line too, like it's better to have said goodbye than not say hello at all. Having said that, I would do everything the same, knowing what the outcome would be, just to have my little boy for those 22wks.

Interesting what everyone is saying about gut instinct. Mine says there's nothing wrong me with and nothing with my little Hamish either. However, that's my gut, the rest of me inluding my head and my mouth is choosing to go the scared like crazy route.

Meredith - big hugs as you have had such a rough and difficult path to walk. I don't know why people feel it at all useful to think you take comfort in the fact you can fall pregnant - it doesn't lessen the pain of having to say goodbye to a desperately loved and wanted baby/babies. I am also a believer in intuition - I feel confident that I always knew something wasn't right with Nathaniel. I was also worried (this is part of my personality but looking back i think it was more than just that) and by 17-18 weeks I am certain I knew he was gone. I even had a dream at 18 weeks and I woke up suddenly and thought I wasn't pregnant - 2 weeks later I found out that our baby boy had passed at 15 weeks. Knowing all this, it has meant that I have really been able to look beyong my anxiety this time around and listen to my body and you know - it feels different this time...

Listen to your heart and your intuition. Express how you feel and don't worry if people don't understand...we are all here for you to hold your hand and help ease your pain just a little.

Hi Meredith,

Just wanted to say that I totally get you!!! I know exactly how you are feeling. With 3 m/c in a row, it is so frustrating. They keep on telling me that nothing is wrong, I and DH have had so many tests and they all come back OK.

I want to know what is going on??? why this keeps on happening!!! Don't they understand the pain we all go through and your hopes and dreams die everytime this happens.

I also don't get pregnant easily and have been doing IVF. In 3 years of trying I have had a miscarriage every year.

I wish you all the best in your TTC and If you ever want to talk. I am here.

xxx Sue xxx

Thanks Sue.
I am so, so sorry about your losses. The heartbreak is just awful, especially when you have worked so hard to get that BFP. The joy and elation so quickly turns to tragedy. You can't even just "try again" in a month or two becuase it's all so medically controlled
Have you got any "plan" for future pg attempts. ie different medication protocol, PGD etc?
I am praying you get that baby in your arms very soon. No one needs to go through this agony any more times

Me - still plodding through each day. Not really "living", just wanting each day to end so maybe i'm a step closer to starting again and feeling better. I don't want to live like this but I can't do much else. Its just so hard to put up the "normal" face when i go out, when really I am dying inside. This is a deep, dark pit and I truly do not have the energy to try and crawl out.
I want my babies back, I want that joy of new life back, I want my hopes and dreams back!

Thank you Meredith,

Yes we are going to go through the IVF track again in October. We tried to put in a frozen embryo in this cycle, but unfortunately the little thing didnt come through the unfreezing :(.

I am on some medication of metformin (as my insulin resistant is a little high), thyroxine (which is being monitored).

I am so sorry you are feeling like so down. I can understand. People who havent been through it, dont understand how you are feeling and when you hear of somebody getting pregnant, you are happy for them, but are devastated because it is not you.....

I also understand about trying to put up a "normal" face. When I lost my 2nd angel and was in hospital have a D&C, my SIL was in hospital giving birth to her son and I had to go a couple of days later and see them (as they didnt know). It was so hard and it broke my heart.

I wish you all the best and please keep in touch.

Come and join us (when you are ready) in the TTC after Lateloss, Stillborn & Recurrent Miscarriages section, we have a lovely group and they are so supportive.

xxx Sue xxx

oh meredith, i do hear you, girl! the most frustrating part for me is having no answers, and having to struggle to even get follow-up treatment in this town!!! anytime you need to vent, i'm here.

Big big hugs my loves. :hug: This is such a hard hard journey - there seems at times to be more pain each day. I just want you to know that I am here and I wish I could hug each and every one of you. :comfort:

I know your pain, I suffered in that place of no answers for a very long time.

After 13 years of going through pregnancy losses with no answers I forced myself to sit down and list the reasons I wanted to be a mother. It didn't take away from my longing for it happen. Or the pain of doctors telling me there are no answers for the reasons we lost our babies, or why i had sooo much trouble falling pregnant, only to lose a baby around 12 weeks. But writing the list did one thing for me. I discovered "genetically related" wasn't on my list of reasons for wanting to be a mother. My child would be loved even if they didn't look like me or my husband one bit.

So my husband and I decided to look into local adoption, because he realized that was a minor thing to him too when it came to being a parent. I had people say "why would you do that? if you can't conceive just accept your lot in life. " to us in the early days, but lucky I didn't listen to them. (thye had kids, easy for them to say that. ) We are now the parents of a beautiful little girl own came into our lives when she was 6 months old. She now 17 months and keeping us busy. Everyday I look at her and know this is how it was meant to be for us, we feel so fortunate to her parents and you know the people who questioned us about adopting a child are the ones that dote on her the most. (They couldn't see us with any other child and neither can we.)

Don't give up hope of becoming a mother, I hope for you it happens the way you want it too. But don't let others make your choices for you, follow your heart *hugs* I pray you will have success soon.

Dear Princess Swan

I would just like to thank you for your entry. I totally understand your statement about whether the baby is genetically related. I congratulate you on giving your little one a warm and welcoming home.

After three losses DH and I have been contemplating adoption. We have an empty room in our house waiting to be filled with a child to love. We are going to try IVF first, but I do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. In fact, even if that works we would still consider adoption as well. I have looked up some guidelines an apparently we cannot list with an adoption agency if we are trying IVF. This will take me into my early 40's. But I am having trouble finding info about the acceptable age of parents. Do you mind my asking if you know about that?

Hugs to your little one

WTH

Dear Hope,

I don't blame you for trying IVF first, we did too and its something you have to do before you do something like apply for adoption. You go through assessments and they do ask if you tried IVF first. Its not to say adoption is second best, they just like to make sure your ready for it and your hearts in it.) Thats why i like the way we do it in Australia, they look out for ALL parties involved. People give DOCs a hard time, but since I had dealings with them I have found they care a great deal about the kids they place.

When it comes to age it depends. International it varies. I think in local its more flexiable depending on how many are in the pool. Its something that you will have look into when its time for you to explore that area. We are going into the pool again....but I'm in my mid 30's, most of the women at playgroup are 40+ if that helps and they have young children.

Good luck with IVF I hope your prays are answered and it is successful for you. *hugs* Princess Swan.

Hi Princess Swan

Thanks for your reply. It is good to know they are flexible with ages of adoptive parents in Australia. We're counting on it! I hope you did not have to wait long. You mention you are going "in the pool again". How long did the process take for you the first time?

Good luck to you in finding a sibling for your little girl, and another child for you to hold and love :)

WTH