Stressed about educational decisions

I really just need to get this off my chest...

The parentals have been on our back about getting DS (now 2 years old) in to private school since he was born. DH went to catholic private all the way and has done very well for himself, they attribute this to his education standard.

We've actually enrolled him in montessori primary because i like the philosphies. I'm having second thoughts about that though as its a long drive and i don't like the fact they can start as early as 3 years old. Plus i am suspecting my son's personality type needs more structure and routine than this school has. The local primary school is public and is a lovely walk from our house, i think it'd be a great quality of life to walk there daily.... and a friend in the industry has recommended it. Dh is really against public school and i just can't seem to get him to budge on it. He also thinks my reasoning for sending him there - being able to walk there and him making lots of kid friends in our neighbourhood is stupid. And he is adament that if we send him to public primary he'll be destined to only go to the local public high school which is pretty crap. (we have our sights set on a private anglican high school which is very reputable).

To make me feel worse, the parents told me yesterday about something in the paper - WA state schools having the lowest literacy rates or something... so now i feel bad about feeling the local public school is okay...

I'm now looking in to sending him to the anglican primary of the high school we want to send him to..... though its not really what i want. I am frustrated because the parents are stressing me out telling me that i have to put his name down at several as i'll be lucky to even get call backs, and i'm risking his educational future by delaying. I am delaying because i don't know what to do! No one else i know with 2 year olds is even enrolling yet or stressing as much as i am!

Are private schools really that hard to get in to? am i a bad mother for not putting his name down the day he was born? Does anyone else worry about making the right decisions and how hard is it finding the best school?

I've been through a bit of this. When my DD was 3yo I really couldn't make up my mind either and actually missed out on getting her into preschool because of it! Her personality was such that she was soooo ready for it and we faced the prospect of her just having to "make do" with a childcare spot instead. I had a strong preference for a small private school but DH wanted to go public. In the end I was quietly thrilled that our only option was to send her to a small Anglican girls' school pre-school. Fortunately there was no waiting list (the high fees probably prevented this). Dh was initially very concerned that by sending her to this school we would be doomed financially... he also admitted to being a bit intimidated by the "kind of parents" that would send their DD's to such a school. Well both concerns were eventually eased: I ended up getting a job there! Meant a 25% staff discount... and we soon learned that the other parents were as diverse as at any other school and that it was not snob city LOL We were very happy with the school until our DD's interests started to vary from the kind of "focus " the school had... she became very sports focused and the school wasn't.... the school was very much Art/drama focused. So after 5 years we found a new school for her.

So, my suggestion is that you work out which should would benefit your child's personality the most. There is no perfect school... only "good matches". My DD is now in grade 8 and I try not to think about how much $ we have spent on fees... it's irrelevant really... because we know that the two schools she has attended have formed her character into one that we admire. She has never complained of bullying which was a huge issue with both DH and I as we were both bullied mercilessly at school. From my experience private schools do more frequently have a zero tolerance toward bullying than compared to public ones... but I'm sure that's just broadly speaking. If your child is being bullied then it won't matter how good the facilities are or the academic standard... they will be too distracted to actually learn or enjoy attending if they are bullied... everything starts with the culture of the school i think.

The other thing I would suggest is to make appointments with schools outside "Open Days". You are more likely to get a truer impression of the place and the staff won't be all "psyched up" and the environemtns won't be as "perfect". I know, I've been a staff member at a private school on Open Days. And when you visit don't get swept away by appearances/facilities. LISTEN to how the staff speak to students... that is the best indicator, I think, of the true culture of a school.

Good luck! It is such a hard one!!!

can you enrol him in the private school but then make up your mind for sure in a couple of years, when you know better what type of school would suit him?
in that time, you could also do a bit of research on the public primary. speak to other local parents, find out what both schools are like.

I agree with Rainforest, just enrol him in the private one and you don't have to worry about whether you'll accept it or not until later.

We want to send our kids to a private high school but aren't too concerned about primary school, there's some good public primary's around us.

Of course he can go to a state primary school and private high school. I did and it didn't do me any harm whatsover. And it most likely what I will do for my boys too. All public schools aren't bad, just as all private schools aren't good. It really is a matter of the prinicipal and teachers who are there at the time. And also bear in mind that each child is an individual, whose needs will be different to that of the next child. For me, it's a matter of finding the particular school that will suit my DS, not whether it's public or private.

Also, I read an interesting article the other day written by a teacher about choosing a primary school, and she bascially said what you are thinking - usually the best school is the closest one, because the child and parents will meet others in the area and it makes getting kids to parties, playdates etc much, much easier. And less stress and travel time makes for happier kids. Maybe you could tell your DH about that - I can scan and email you the article too if you like (just PM me your email addy if you want it).

Best of luck hun. I know it's not easy. I started worrying about a school for DS1 at about that age too!

I'm also a bit different to most parents in that I think that choosing a good primary school is more important than a high school. Your child's attitude to school/learning will be "set" in the primary years. If they get off to a bad start it's going to have a deeper impression. It's harder to fix a damaged impression of school when you get to high school. If they don't love being at school when they are young it's not going to change much by the time they get to high school. I don't mean to add to the pressure... I just don't think it's wise to say "it doesn't matter what primary school they attend... I'll make sure they go to a good high school".

I personally think that the parent's attitude towards learning and how they encourage that in the home has a lot to do with how well the children respond to learning at school. I agree that location and community has an impact on how happy a child will be at school - ie can they go over to friend's houses after school rather than be in after school care waiting to be picked up. I also think that being able to walk to school is not something to be taken lightly in the current economic and climate situation.

Luckily our local primary school has had good reports so it's a no-brainer for us. DD will go there with her friends and continue the bonds they have made at childcare and playgroup. If the local public school is good then I would definitely consider it. I went to the local (rough & bad rep) primary school but my mother was a teacher and instilled a positive attitude to learning in me. I ended up going to a private secondary school but only on a full scholarship. I guess I am a good example of how a child can achieve regardless of what sort of school they go to.

Gosh u poor thing.
He is ur son aswell...not all state schools are bad.
I agree its important that he makes friends in his local area so he can them over and he go over their house.

My hubby feels that if it comes down to one place left they would take the person who went to a private school over the one who went to a public school... i don't think thats the case, i'd like to think they'd go on educational merit.

I will apply at this one, which is a $50 application fee, then i'm not sure how many others i will apply to as all these application fees will add up. I guess putting his name down at 3 would be an idea.

The only local one is the public primary, i think it would be great to walk to and from school every day, in fact the idea of driving him half an hour to school and back (so 1 hour round trip twice a day) is unappealing... but i guess thats what most people do?

The other thing that bothers me is that these schools are reputable NOW but what about in a few years, or in the case of the high school 12 years!

Personally, I went to a public primary and a private girls Catholic school. I had no issue getting into school, as there was only 2 public and 1 private primary school feeding into it.

But, my DD is 10yo. She has been to both the local public and the local catholic school. I pulled her out of the public school when her teacher called the class a "pack of B**ches". When I approached the pincipal, I was told "well they are 9yo and they are like that". Basically, their hands are tied with certain discipline and can not intervene as much as the private schools. I also find my DD teacher very contactable with concerns, and the school bends over backwards to assist in her social development. She is bullied (partially her fault with her personality), but we try to cap it and work on teaching her better techniques for keeping and making friends. I do not think I would get this same support, advice and/or help at a public school.

The other thing, is see how many schools are "feeding" into the private high school. Eg, in my area, there is 1 private catholic high school. The next catholic high school is 20km away. We have 4 catholic primary's and 5 public schools feeding into it. So for me.. if I didn't send her to the private primary, chances of her getting into that high school are slim.

Fee's of private education in some schools isn't as bad as you think. The catholic ones tend to be the cheapest too. And if your child is a catholic, and you are not financially comfortable, you can negioate with the school for fee reductions.

My mother never paid any fees for me as she is disabled (both physically and mentally) and unable to word.

Hope this helps.

I really don't think people care what kind of school you go to!! As you said, they go on merit. If I apply for a job or something now I doubt they even care about my school or even know anything about the school so it doesn't have much influence. So....anyway, I wouldn't worry about that.

I agree, walking to school everyday with you and then when he's a bit older maybe other kids in the neighbourhood would be great!! I would've loved that. My brothers went to a school close to home and they had the best time. Were always out in the street playing with kids from down the road.

Hope you and hubby come to an agreement and you find a good school!!

It's a big decision isn't it? Personally, I believe that a child will only excel at school to the best of their ability if THEY want to be there and if they want to learn and are happy - not if their parents want them to be at a particular school. My DH went to a public primary school and then to an Methodist boarding school for his secondary education and he doesn't want that type of education for our children at all. You will have trouble convincing your DH probably because that's all he's ever known and probably thinks that because he did so well going through that education system, then anything else isn't going to be as good.

I think the biggest thing is finding a school that aligns with your core values - I would never send my children to a boarding/private school as most of them (not all) are affiliated with a religion and I don't follow a religion myself, so I would have trouble dealing with that side of things.

Many private schools these days make students do an application and aptitude test as well to get in, so where he goes for primary school may not having any bearing on where he goes for high school kwim?

Like others have said, send in a few applications to keep them happy and worry about whether you get accepted or not later.

Incredibly off topic (but addressing an earlier issue):

My DH works for a bank... one of the big 4... and quite frequently he is asked to help in the selection of managers' assistants. He's been doing this for about 5 years now. At first it was recommended that if the list of candidates was long that he focus on the privately educated applicants first. At first he was horrified that he would be openly told to do this (he is publicly educated himself). But now he does it as a matter of course. I know it sounds shocking and appalling but it proved time after time that the privately educated applicants had the social, communication, speech skills required by the bank (in this Private Banking department... managers serve the needs of high net worth clients, Lawyers, doctors, CEO's etc). I know this sounds incredibly discriminatory and i don't endorse it... but if you have cull a list of 50 applicants down to 10 to interview in 1 day that is what seems to work. My DH will give anyone a fair go... but he couldn't interview them all. You can't recruit a person who might have perfect grades if they are going to greet your clients with "So how ya goin'? What can i do for ya today mate?" I'm not saying all public schools put through students with poor speech patterns... they don't... but I wonder if they help the students to function in a corporate environment as well as the private ones do? I'm not saying every student should aim for a corporate job either! I'm just saying that in the real world, from my experience, sometimes the school you attend can actually work in your favour :( sad but true. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Hiya,
Look I think the advice that has been given here is good. It can't hurt to put his name down as you still have plenty of time before he even starts school.

As a teacher I have taught in QLD, NT and WA in both public and private and in 'good' and 'bad' schools. What counts most is who will be teaching your child as they will have the most influence. All schools have core values which they strive to follow but at the end of the day it is the influence of the face to face contact. I would say you should go and visit with any school that your interested in. Any school worth half their salt should not have a problem with this. Most have parent information packs that you can request that go into greater detail about who they are etc. Don't be afraid to ask questions and if your not happy with one don't bother.

The education that counts the most is what you as a parent gives your child as ultimately a school will teach your child how to read and write but his values, beliefs, ideals and views of the world will come from you so what ever the choice you need to be happy and comfortable with any decisions you make. Good luck school hunting and I hope you and DH can achieve a satisfactory outcome in the long run.

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Incredibly off topic (but addressing an earlier issue):

I'm not saying all public schools put through students with poor speech patterns... they don't... but I wonder if they help the students to function in a corporate environment as well as the private ones do?

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That's really interesting because my old boss (when I worked for one of the Big 4 LOL, but that's not relevant here) was a university lecturer for several years and was adamant that the public school kids coped with uni far better than the private school kids. He said that the private school kids had been spoon-fed far too much and the proportion of privately educated students failing their first year was extraordinary.

I must say we've had the same discussion in our house already (I'm pro-private, DH isn't) and DH in the end "won" for want of a better word. My boss's viewpoint has been quite comforting to me and you've just blown that out of the water!!:redface:

We can't afford to send our children to private school. I hope the public school will be right for our children.
Sometimes I wished we lived in a small country town so there was no choice but to send them to the local school.

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university lecturer for several years and was adamant that the public school kids coped with uni far better than the private school kids. He said that the private school kids had been spoon-fed far too much and the proportion of privately educated students failing their first year was extraordinary

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Yes this is my experience too. I studied Science and the amount of private school students who dropped out was staggering in my first year. It made me angry as those students were not replaced and there were huge waiting lists to get into the course. It was the same for med too, not sure about humanities?

I'm a public school girl through and through, my parents simply could not afford to send me to private and to be honest I'm happy with how things turned out for me. I studied hard and got to where I wanted to be. I think in the end it comes down to the student and family values on education.

Good luck deciding. Maybe make some enquiries about the waiting lists for private and put your DS name down if necessary. You don't have to decide until the time gets closer and then you have your bases covered just in case?

I've heard similar too, with regards to private vs public capability at university. I was under the impression that whilst a lot of popular private schools do have a great uni entrance rate the drop out rate is equally as high when getting to uni. Whereas the rate of children in public schools who continue onto university may be lower the rate at which they complete their university studies is higher. And a lot of popular private schools (I'm talking the name dropping schools) are under scrutiny for forcing under achievers to drop out early from school so not to tarnish their reputation for having high percentage of students going on to university. I would LOVE to be able to send my children to maybe 2 or 3 of the private schools (that I know have a high focus on community and nuture not just education or status) but the majority of them I would steer clear of. Having said that unless I get some fabulous job by the time our kids are in high school our kids will go to a middle ground private school instead.

You work with what you've got MummaB and I know of plenty of people who went to run of the mill public schools and went on to become scientists, engineers and all sorts of wonderful things.

I sit on selection panels for State Govt recruitment and I've never paid an iota of attention to whether someone went to private or public school, just whether they managed to get the qualifications for the job they're applying for. No panel I've ever been a part of have even mentioned it for that matter. Maybe the banks do it differently, but I don't imagine where you went to school would determine (for me) whether you're suited to a job. The only time I may look at education is when I have two closely competitive applicants, and one has/is in the process of getting a degree and the other hasn't/isn't. It may be the difference between applicants, but only if it's really close.

My local primary school is a good one, plus it's close to us and is the local school for all the kids in the area. The local private primary school is across a major intersection and hasn't got as good a reputation. So no brainer for us there either.

My local secondary school is new, so it so far hasn't gotten the best reputation. But the one that was near our old house, which my 14yo DS still goes to, is ranked in the top ten schools statewide, public and private. We moved house specifically to get the kids into that school.

So Charlie will go to the local primary school and then go to a private Catholic high school. To me, it isn't about whether it's public or private, it's about putting them in the best, most convenient, most advanatgeous (for all concerned) schools. :)

Hope you come to some decision that both you and your DH can live with, MummaB.

As others have suggested, I would just book a tentative place for your child at the private schools and then reassess when you get closer to school age! I think that's what I'll do when I get to that stage although it seems miles away :cryinglaugh:

I attended a private anglican girls school throughout primary up to Year 10 (same school) and then did my VCE at a public school. I really think my committment and success in VCE was helped by the education I received at private school. I say that because the majority of students at the public school did not go on to further study and a lot didn't even sit end of year exams. My friends from private school have all gone on to further study and did really well in Year 12. I'm not saying that going to uni is the be all and end all, but maybe that's what's guiding your DH in stressing the importance of private school. My DP never even finished high school and he went public for both primary and secondary. He's gone straight into the workforce and earns decent money. School wasn't his thing and it hasn't hindered his employment opportunities at all - he's a tradie!

I'm really torn between public/private, because I loved both schools but I would definitely send bubs to the private school if I have a girl! If personality doesn't suit, I am very open to change. That's the reason I went public for VCE. The private school wasn't offering the subjects I wanted to do and I'm very happy with the public school I went to. Very different culture and policies though (no uniform for one! SHOCK HORROR!)

Are the private schools your DH's interested in religious? We used to have church every week and religious education. Easter and Christmas time were a really big deal as well. I know a few of my friends who are Jewish and Bhudist had alternative activities to do while the rest of us went to church, so hopefully other schools are open to that sort of thing.

Anyway, seriously good luck with it. I'm already stressing over choosing schools. If I have a boy then I have no idea where I'll start looking! I hope you and your DH find a choice you're both happy with :hug:

I think that by the sounds of things that you are going to have a hard time convincing both your DH and parents not to send the kids to a private schools. In theory I agree with what has been said here about being able to walk to a local school, having friends close by and having a community feel about it.

In reality, if you are wanting to send your DS to a private highschool the following is a list of "selection criteria" used for enrollements at most private highschools and primary schools:

1) Sibling of children currently attending
2) Catholic (insert app religion here) Children from feeder schools
3) Non religous children from feeder schools
4) Remaining children ie non religous or children from non feeder schools

The important thing to remember is that MOST enrollments are filled from criteria's 1) and 2). I know of one catholic primary school here in Perth that for a kindy class of 30, 28 spots were filled by sibling which only left 2 others and these were given to children who lived in the diocese and whose parents frequented church. So unfortunatley regardless even tho this would be lovely to think:

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My hubby feels that if it comes down to one place left they would take the person who went to a private school over the one who went to a public school... i don't think thats the case, i'd like to think they'd go on educational merit.

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In reality I doubt that it would ever happen.:(

As an aside I am catholic and we have chosen to educate our children privately. Both children were enrolled in primary schools within their first year of birth and are also enrolled in a number of highschools too - and I am by no means the first parent to do so! In relation to highschools, I am not necessarily talking about your top 5 "cost wise" in Perth either, I am talking about your "normal" private highschool. :rolleyes:

So what I am saying is if you truely believe that you want to educate your children privately and can afford to do so ENROL NOW.:)

I think if it is stressing you out then you just need to put down his name at both state and private schools and say whatever will be will be. Remember what I always say, you dont know what you don't know- and if you didn't know that you needed to put his name down earlier, then you couldnt have possibly done it (plus remember you have recently moved, so even if you had put his name down in his first year, those schools would be over an hour away now!)

I tend to agree with Bath that, for me the quality of the education students recieve in Primary School is what sets the tone for how they learn in High School- if kids are given the basic building blocks of reading, writing and maths, and are not given what I call a "toolbox" of skills which help them to learn, ie. problem solving, critical thinking etc, they are going to struggle whichever school they are educated in.

Something else to remember is that there are good and bad teachers in EVERY school in WA, we are all educated in the same institutions and are bound by the curriculum wherever we teach.

I know how consuming it is trying to decide where to educate your children, I go through the same internal struggle daily, because the local schools are not somewhere I want my kids educated- not because of the schools, or the teachers but because of the area we live in and the amount of 'other' social problems there. So for the sake of my kids education, if I cant get them across the boundaries into a neighbouring school, then I will send them to a catholic primary school- not because it is private, but because I believe it is where my children will recieve the best education.

At the end of the day only you and your DH should have a say where the kids go to school, and then it is up to your DS to make the most of the education given to him, be it private or public.

Hi MuumaB,
I have a 7 year old daughter in grade 1. She is acedemically well beyond her years, she participates in extra curicular activities, acedemic programes run outside of school and believe it or not - she goes to a public primary school. Sending your child to a private school does not make them smarter or nicer. If they are going to do well they will at public or private.
I would love to send DD to a private secondary school, but I think that's for me. I have friends who went to the local high school and one of them is a federal policeman, and 2 are lawyers. I also have friends that went to a private catholic school and while some went off to have wonderful careers - 1 of them is working at a supermarket and another is a manager at McDonalds.
Primary school doesn't matter so much as they focus socialising rather than training them to be surgeons. I think you would be better of sending your DS to the local school so he can make friends in his area, you can enjoy walking to school and you will be close by if ever you want to be a classroom helper. Weigh up the pros and cons - at the end of the day he is YOUR son - not your parents or inlaws.

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Incredibly off topic (but addressing an earlier issue):

My DH works for a bank... one of the big 4... and quite frequently he is asked to help in the selection of managers' assistants.

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Do these positions require tertiary qualifications or were they hiring people straight from high school?

Once a person has a degree or diploma, or is 5 years out from school with work experience, i can't imagine them having their high school listed on their CV anyway.

They come from tertiary institutes... bachelor of business for example... but most CVs that my DH looks at has the applicant's high-school listed. They are usually in their very early 20's with not much to put in their CV's so they rely on being able to say that they were a school prefect or house captain or whatever... all fair enough... but often the thing that gets them an interview or not is when DH rings them to "clarify" something. If their speech patterns on the phone are poor (or if they can barely be understood due to a very strong accent) then DH just thanks them for clarifying and says "we'll get back to you about an interview" and that's the end of it. One of the main complaints of clients in Private bank is that when they were standard bank customers they would use the bank's call centre and often struggle to understand the phone operator. It's just a reality that these clients demand service personnel with good clear speech patterns... if you don't have this as an applicant then you often won't get an interview... no matter what school you went to.