The guilt is KILLING me!

So I'm sure this probably belongs in the 'Boo Hoo Room', but to be completely honest, I'm worried I'll get the flippant comments from those that don't choose to Co-Sleep / Gentle Parenting. I need to cry to those that understand a bit better...

Last night, Savannah was really pushing my patience. Every 20 minutes she was waking. Worst part was I knew dinner was almost ready, and of course in my tired-I'm-an-idiot state of mind, I didn't want to eat a cold dinner. Savannah was just lying there happily beside me, eyes closed but feet twitching - I was getting stressed out with every minute that passed.

In the end, dinner was served, I had been in there for half an hour and she still wasn't asleep so I just got up. She sat up as I left, cried a bit and I walked out to the table and flicked the monitor off. I vented to DH that I just needed 5 minutes peace. I had planned to eat my dinner and go straight back in - and goodness knows I was going to shovel the dinner in and not enjoy it at all anyway.

After 1 minute (probably less), I turned the monitor back on and all was quiet. I relaxed a bit and ate my dinner, which of course I didn't even enjoy, and assumed she had fallen asleep.Then it occurred to me what if she hadn't fallen asleep and was just in there, quiet but upset? The Science of Parenting and all those horrible stress chemicals pouring over her brain played on my mind and eventually I went in.

She sat bolt upright and wrapped her arms so tight around my neck I couldn't breath. I lied down with her. After another 15 minutes or so I thought she was asleep, snuck out of the bed and went to leave the room. As I was shutting the door however, she lifted her head to look at me. "Oh crap" I thought as I shut the door...

... but...

... no noise.

No crying, no nothing. And that's how it stayed until I ended up going to bed later that night - later than usual too I might add. Both DH and I thought this was a great step forward and perhaps the beginning of "the change".

So fast forward to tonight. We go through the bed time routine and I put her down to sleep. Almost immediately she is asleep, no surprise given she only had one nap (now a normal thing) which ended at 11am this morning and bedtime was 5pm.

As always, she woke after half an hour and I went and resettled her. Most nights this is the end of it for a couple of hours, but tonight looked to be a repeat of last night's waking constantly. 15 minutes later, she was back awake.

Queue the guilt trip.

I decided that if she could do it last night, she could do it tonight. I stayed for 10 minutes.... then left. She cried. The crying lasted maybe two minutes if that. More like 45 seconds, but it just seemed so much longer. Eventually she quietened.

On and off for the next 10 minutes she whimpered, quietened, grizzled, quietened, etc. Eventually when she started to ramp up again I went back in. I lied her down, and lied down beside her - she was happy to just have me there and her eyes started to droop. 10 minutes later I think she's almost asleep and I sneak out. Again I get as far as the door before she realises and gets upset.

I'm frustrated. I loudly say "Go to sleep!" as I walk away. 30 seconds of crying and then nothing... quiet. I hear a funny noise through the monitor (probably a cough, but of course now I'm paranoid) and stand by the door waiting for some sort of noise to tell me she's ok. Nothing. Dead silence.

I slooooooowly and carefully open the door and stick my head in. Belly down, half way down the bed, asleep. I sneak back out.

So this is a good thing, right? This is what they call "self settling" yes? She put herself to sleep without me even being in the room. Yes there was a bit of crying, but I'm talking maybe 30 seconds of it, the rest just on and off grizzling. There was no screaming - a few loud cries, but certainly no screaming. I wouldn't even put it in the same country as controlled crying, let alone category.

So why... why am I absolutely riddled with guilt that I can't even think about food (given it's almost 7pm)? Such guilt that I am wanting to ball my eyes out? Why do all I want to do now is brush my teeth and go crawl into bed with her for the night? Isn't her being asleep what I wanted to have so I could "enjoy" my night? So why am I suddenly wanting to be right by her side?

Why...?

(Sorry for venting here girls. I just needed to voice how I'm feeling at the moment because DH, as loving as he is, just doesn't "get" it, and no a drink won't fix it (diet coke, not alcohol) )

Savannah has learnt that Mum may take a few minutes to get to her if she has other more urgent things to do, and that she doesn't necessarily have to have Mum there to sleep.
She hasn't learnt that she will be left when distressed - just that grizzling is not automatically going to get your immediate attention.

Guilt is a funny thing - it reminds me of when we moved bub into his own room, and I didn't sleep that night (although he slept perfectly well!). Sometimes we end up guilty because we imagine that our bubs are much sadder than they actually are.

Aww hun! big hugs! Please dont feel guilty as hard as it is not too! You are doing a fabulous job!

I too worry about Myles when i leave him to grizzle a bit, and all i see is the Science of parenting page with the stress level stuff on it lol! I dont think 30 secs of grizzling will do much iykwim! I am sure she is fine!

I think she is self settling but we cosleep too so i have no idea if that is right!:) Maybe its not guilt but sadness thats she doesnt really need you all that much anymore when going to bed? To me it sounds like you have given her a beautiful safe environment and she is very happy!

Try to relax and go have your diet coke!

HTH a little xxxx

:

---

Sometimes we end up guilty because we imagine that our bubs are much sadder than they actually are.

---

That right there is my problem I think. I'm sitting out here picturing her in there upset, wondering why I have left her, why I walked out of the room, and when am I coming back. I imagine all these horrible thoughts going through her head and her being extremely upset.

Of course, she is probably just asleep and completely over it. Or at least that's what I hope and pray is the case. :dunno:

Oh, darling, I reckon I'd be the same!
However, she's not screaming the house down for you, she's whimpering - there's a big difference between being sad and being distressed, or even upset.
If the guilt is still harrassing you, crawl into bed with her, and when hunger wakes you up later, bang dinner in the microwave and have a late one :)

OH My God Haydies!!!!!

You did it! You seem to have taught her to self settle!!!!! She sounds really secure in the knowledge that you are there for her when she needs you and seems to understand that it is sleeping time!

I say well done my dear!

Guilt may be a natural side effect to all of the stress you have been going through with lack of sleep. I say go with it!

I am going through the exact same thing right at this exact moment! You are not alone.I am sitting here on my laptop right next to the baby monitor, waiting for him to stir again.....just praying that I get to have my dinner soon, I haven't eaten anything since 11am.
I just can't bring myself to let Jack cry and DH is at work so it's just me in and out of the room for the last hour or so.....


I would kill for a glass of wine...LOL.

:

---

You did it! You seem to have taught her to self settle!!!!! She sounds really secure in the knowledge that you are there for her when she needs you and seems to understand that it is sleeping time!

---

I'd be reveling in that thought if she had of gone down without crying. Like last night - the second time I left the room she lifted her head, but we didn't hear a PEEP out of her - nothing, silence. Of course, even then I sat out here thinking "what if she's upset but just given up crying?" :rolleyes:

At least I'm sure she's asleep now. We've not heard a sound since 6:15pm, and it's 7:40 now...

Is this what self settling is? Even with the crying?

:

---

what if she's upset but just given up crying?"

---

I think babies that give up are ones that have been left crying for long periods of time over weeks! So you shouldnt worry about that! If she is asleep she wont be distressed!

good luck xx

:

---

I'd be reveling in that thought if she had of gone down without crying. Like last night - the second time I left the room she lifted her head, but we didn't hear a PEEP out of her - nothing, silence. Of course, even then I sat out here thinking "what if she's upset but just given up crying?" :rolleyes:

---

Savannah is such a bright little girl by all accounts, I really think that she has complete faith in you as you have always been there for her when she needs you. From your descriptions I would read her behaviour as that of a secure child who is working out that she can sleep by herself sometimes and that at other times would like to have mum near her. I think it sounds as if she was lifting her head to check that you were there more than anything - the fact that she was quiet afterwards could very well indicate that she was happy to drift off to sleep once she had checked out that you were there/around. Gorgeous little poppet!

As for her being upset and just giving up crying, I agree with Boomba,

:

---

I think babies that give up are ones that have been left crying for long periods of time over weeks! So you shouldnt worry about that! If she is asleep she wont be distressed!

---

I imagine that if Savannah was upset she would let you know clearly as you have established a good secure communication with her and she knows that you will respond.

I think you know your girl better than you think you do! I read an interesting article in the Age today about modern parenting and something stood out to me in relation to this. Regarding the fact that we don't tend to grow up with babies all around us anymore and we don't have a whole lot of resources to call on for help and advice. We tend to look to books and written references for help now and loose faith in our own instincts. As much as I love a good parenting book as much as the next person, I really really try to focus on what feels right. From what you have posted here in the past I think you are pretty good at that! I say, keep it up! (ie as Mayaness said, go to her if you feel you should, but also trust your instincts in what her grizzles vs her cries mean to you) And thank god for like minded souls here to help out with advice too!

Sorry, I am really babbling here, its just that this is exactly what I have been going through here..... and I think that Savannah is definitely showing signs of self settling!

:

---

Is this what self settling is? Even with the crying?

---

I think, as long as the crying is not ongoing and not terribly upsetting (to you or her!) this is the beginning of self settling for Savannah and you are well on the way. Every day should show improvements if you keep giving her a chance to practice her new grown up self settling techniques!!!

All the best:hug: and keep in mind I am there with you with my girl;)!!

I think u have a fantastic job,i wish my son would self settle id be in hevean.

big congrats to u. and feeling guilty is apart of being a parent, normal. she is growin up

I would hazard a guess that the 'guilt' could be more sadness at moving on to the next stage, and you missing being needed. I've recently got DS to put himself to bed (yes it took 2 1/2 years LOL) and while I don't necessarily feel guilty about pushing the issue a little (altho he was actually very ready) it's still kinda sad that he doesn't need me to get to sleep any more. Sometimes I want to lie down with him like old times, but I'm just giving it a bit of time so I don't undo what we've just achieved! hehe. We now have extra cuddles and stories and things before sleeping, so perhaps you could add something new and special to her new bedtime routine to help fill that little void for you both.

*hugs* and well done :) I agree that you know what sort of cries you need to respond to, don't doubt yourself :)

:

---

I would hazard a guess that the 'guilt' could be more sadness at moving on to the next stage, and you missing being needed.

---

Not really. I'd actually be ECSTATIC if she could self settle without the tears. After 11 months of not being able to have any sort of time to myself at night, and not getting anything done during the day - I would be so happy if this was the step into a new stage.

The guilt is definitely guilt. I ended up out at the computer distracting myself with the boards here last night until 10pm when my eyes couldn't stay open any longer. The entire time I was here I was so worried that Savannah was upset, and so guilty at myself for walking out when she cried for me. I kept trying to remind myself that it was only 30 seconds of crying, and she was fine... but I couldn't get past the feeling that she thought I was abandoning her. I ended up with a tummy ache.

Then again, I'm probably a bit odd in that I worry about anything I do that might make Savannah scared or hurt by me. Probably comes from not liking my own mother...

But thankyou girls for letting me cry here. DH did tell me last night he knew how I was feeling, he just didn't know what he could do to help. This morning Savannah's had big big cuddles for me every 5 minutes and lots of smiles, so I'm not feeling as bad now. Although I am starting to dread tonight already - part thinking "what if she doesn't go to sleep, will I loose my night" coupled with "will I have the strength to see if she will self settle, what about those tears". :rolleyes:

I obviously don't expect her to go her whole life with no tears, I just hate being the cause of them. That little face last night realising I was leaving as soon as I got of the bed... :(

I'm sorry for babbling (and blubbering) so much about this. You probably all think I'm nuts.

I think that you need to remind yourself that no baby will stop crying within 30 seconds without intervention if she is seriously unhappy. You have to trust Savannah to tell you the difference between grumpy-for-a-little-while and my-baby-world-is-all-wrong.

I know that my bub has a whole other level of "I need you NOW" cries and is willing to use them (we found that out yesterday after the combination of getting him up early and his vaccinations.....).

I know this might sound a bit odd given Savannah is 11 months old, but I think I actually need to "learn" her cries. I was having a chat to a friend this morning about last night and we think that's a major part of the guilt. Savannah doesn't really cry, at all.

So far we only really have:
- I'm tired so I'm just going to whine and grizzle. Not crying, more just frustration noises.
- I've just tried to decapitate myself and the wall pushed me over oh my gawd that hurts whale of a cry

Everything in between is cry-less. Even when she bumps her head or I think she's hurt herself, she just brushes it off. I've always been with her right up until she goes to sleep so no crying there. And I'm never 'away' from her - if I go out, she comes with me, even if it's just outside to hang the washing up.

The flip side, is I am having to, now, learn that not all cry like noises are true "upset" cries. If that makes sense.

I don't know. I'm starting to think I sound like an idiot lol. Maybe the problem is with me....:rolleyes:

Nah - you're not an idiot. You may also find that there isn't any in between cry. We get "I'm bored with playing come and get me" and then "I'm warning you that I mean this" and then "really cracking it" (which comes with tears). And going from the first to the last may only take a minute!

But - you said in an earlier post that "she started to ramp up again" - so even if you aren't aware of it specifically there was a second level of cry, and you responded to it :)

And if you have an almost-always happy bub then that's a very good thing.

:

---

Not really. I'd actually be ECSTATIC if she could self settle without the tears. After 11 months of not being able to have any sort of time to myself at night, and not getting anything done during the day - I would be so happy if this was the step into a new stage.

---

Aah no worries :) Just thought I'd mention it, coz I felt this way when I weaned DS. Ecstatic for the extra freedom, but kinda sad & guilty at the same time. We were tandem feeding and it was getting a bit much, and he was hurting me when he fed, so I took the plunge and told him no more coz it hurts mummy. Well, he didn't seem to mind at all, no real tears about it, but kinda disappointed. And here I was gearing up to feel bad thinking he'd be devestated not having it anymore (he was still having a few a day and needed it for sleeping).. so I kinda had a wierd guilty/sad kind of feeling of him not needing me anymore and no longer having that closeness.

So yeah, thought maybe it could be similar. But obviously not :)

I'm the same re cries.. I could never tell which cry was which really, because DS didn't cry much, DD I've learnt her tummy pain cries, but otherwise I certainly can't call myself a baby whisperer LOL.

But I'd say the fact you have a happy baby that rarely cries shows just how intuitive you really are. If her cries are really bothering you, then go back in to her, and maybe try again next week. It sounds like the extra freedom you're getting now is being clouded by how you feel about it anyway, so perhaps it isn't quite time for her (or you) to completely self-settle. Don't go against your own instincts if it doesn't feel right.

ETA: Oh, thought I'd add that evenings are particularly hard here too. DD usually settles herself to sleep, but between 7.30 and about 10.00 it's on and off, and I usually end up having to cuddle her to sleep. Perhaps it's the age?

Well, now I have to come and boast. Savannah was super tired, but completely fought the first attempt to get her down. 10 minutes later, I realise that there's just no way she's going to make the end of the day without a nap (first one came super early at 9:30 this morning), so I went and tried again.

All I did this time though, since she fed with the first attempt, was lie down with her. She cried, but I noticed it was all noise, there was one tear... so I started to tell myself that she really wasn't upset, just tired and cranky.

I started talking to her really softly, really calmly, telling her that she needs to have a sleep, and that mummy will do a bit of house work if she has a nap and that way, when she wakes up we can play etc. Well low and behold she stopped grizzling, rolled from her back onto her side to face me and CLOSED HER EYES!!

She's now asleep!!! OH MY GAWD!! :dance:

Hooray! Well done :) Now go enjoy your freedom! hehe

Thats great! good work Savannah you little angel!

So happy you are feeling better! xxxx

Hi,

Don't know that I can help too much - I officially don't *do* mother guilt. No time. There are lots of things I wish I'd done differently, but I do the best I can. My kids seem to forgive me fairly easily - so best I forgive myself, and try to do things differently next time.
When my first was little I found this a hard concept to deal with - but soonish you will need to include Savannah in mealtimes with yourself and your DH. She will need to learn to sit up at the table and eat her dinner, learn some manners (by example) how to use cutlery, chat and share her days events, and see how you and her dad share the day's events.
Now, I wouldn't do anything OTHER than have the whole family sit up together for a meal. Even if sport and part-time work interrupt some nights, we still do the dinner thing several times a week.
It works best when you have dinner pr-prepared so there is a minimum of fuss getting it out.
Just a thought.
Barb

At the moment Savannah goes to bed between 5pm and 5:30pm. DH doesn't get home till 7:30pm. So dinner together isn't an option. I can't keep Savannah up because she fights sleep so bad we're already down to one nap a day. She doesn't last longer than 5:30...

hehe - I had to go and re-read the original post to see why Barb was suddenly talking about dinner!

Does she sleep all night from 5.30? Wowee. My two were both night owls. It's only now that Tallon can go to bed for the night at 7.30.

But it is an option if she's fighting sleep that badly, to just get her up for 15 mins or so and then try again. I find that works here. Worked here at lunch time actually LOL. She just wasn't going off, so I got her up and she sat and wolfed down some lunch with us, and then she went off beautifully. I do the same at night too, because it can get really stressful hanging about trying and trying to get them to sleep.

But by the sounds of it, all you need to do is pop her in bed and she'll do her thing :)

Hehe, don't worry, I was confused for a moment too. I thought it might have been a reply for a different thread until I remembered that the first night happened because of dinner.

She does sleep all night, rising about 6:30am in the morning. But she doesn't sleep "through". Average night sees us wake about 11pm, 2am, 4am and then when she gets up around 6:30am. Always wants a feed.

Last night she only woke at 11pm and 4am though. Or should I say, they're the only times I remember. So not sure if she really did only wake then, or if I was just so tired I don't remember the other times...

I'm mentally preparing myself to try again tonight to see if she will self settle again. Although she fell asleep on my again after she got up and didn't wake until 4pm... so clearly not going to be ready for her 5:30pm bedtime lol.

All the best Haydies!

Its 5.30 and I'm thinking of you!;)

Sounds like she's going through some development or change (as they do!) Try not to stress too much about how each evening will pan out. It'll settle down eventually. If she needs you, then just be there for her, if she settles on her own, then bonus for you :) Probably best not to make any plans for your free time just yet.. then you won't stress if you find you need to sit with her.

My DD has just gone down.. but I've no doubt she'll be back up in about an hr or so. hehe. Can't imagine her going down for the night now! LOL. I should really go and fix dinner while she's asleep!

So jealous, Haydies! DS rarely goes to sleep alone - and he goes from his happy chatting and giggling to a little whinge and five seconds later to the howl that wakes the world. But last night DH left him just a tiny bit asleep and he wriggled but finished it off himself.

It's hard giving up something you're not ready to give up. I'm still feeling guilty we're not breastfeeding even though I was practically forcing DS to feed. I'd not feel guilty letting him cry for 30 seconds - after all, he does that when I need the loo and he's in bed! Especially not if he slept happily after that. But then he woke twice last night... who knows? He does 11 hours if I'm lucky, I'd love him to do 7-8 every day! 7.30-6.30 is pretty much what we have, and he goes down 7.30-8 and wakes 6-6.30. *Sigh*. I suppose it was 8.10-6.50 last night, but 2 wake-ups.

DS's bedtime is 7.30 and a family meal (at 6) is a big part of his life. He eats all his meals with his family and/or friends and, aside from chewing with his mouth open, occasionally eating from his knife and getting yoghurt up his nose, he has pretty decent manners. So much easier to lead by example in the early days than shouting in the later ones. You don't have to do it every night, but every lunchtime sitting down together will teach this.

*sits down* Well I knew tonight would be a late one as she didn't wake up from her nap until 4pm, and that was only because I moved anyway. I didn't even realise she had fallen back asleep on my till about 10 minutes later lol.

So she had a shower with DH at 7:30, in bed at 7:45. She had her feed, but when I noticed she was more just 'sucking' than feeding, I whispered to her "if you're done feeding sweetheart, you need to let go" and to me surprise, she did! She was still wiggling her toes and awake, but lying there so I started talking to her really softly again. Telling her how proud I am of her, what a great day we had together and how we were going to the park tomorrow. 5 minutes of this and bam, she was out like a light.

I'm expecting the half hour wake up, and we'll see how it goes after that. Fingers crossed!

Rosehip I would LOVE to have family dinner together! Sadly DH works in the city and it's a two hour train trip home. :( She has breakfast with DH every morning, even weekends as I feel it's a special time for just those two. And I always eat lunch with her too. If she does have dinner (4pm ish) then I try to find something for me to eat so she doesn't feel like she's eating alone. Even if it is just a couple of crackers that I eat via 300 teeny tiny bites LOL.

When DH is home, which is weekends and two week days when he works from home I try to make sure we eat together. Weekends are no problem, but trying to convince DH to not work through his lunch break and to instead sit with us can be tricky at times. :rolleyes:

I am so thankful I have you girls to chat to through out this new phase - I can't tell you how much it helps me just to know people are hearing my feelings. :grouphug:

Aw hun i wish you were my mum! Talking to her is goregous! I might have to try that one!

We are really lucky to have DH home at about 5ish so we have an early dinner and Myles goes down at about 6. i know that if we have dinner after, i rush to get him to sleep and this stresses him out and its a battle to get him to sleep! So we always have dinner first cause i dont want to be rushed!

I also totally concerntrate on getting him to sleep! I find if i let my mind wonder he feels it and plays up iykwim! Might have to use this line though if you're done feeding sweetheart, you need to let go

Your a wonderfull mummy and Savannah is lucky to have you! Hope she sleeps well tonight, tomorrow night and the forever;)

x

I must admit, the talking surprised me that it worked. If someone's talking to me I can't sleep LOL. I guess I just have a soooooothing voice (picture Barbara Gene from the TV show Reba saying that :ROFL: ). I say it all barely above a whisper, but it's worked twice so far!

:

---

if you're done feeding sweetheart, you need to let go

---

I gently stroke her chin when I say that. Only been trying that the past week, but so far it's worked every time. Well... there was the once time she grunted and sucked furiously. I took that to mean she wasn't done yet. :lol:

Mini Update...

Tonight Savannah went down like normal around 6pm (late one tonight as we went out to dinner). Woke after about 45 minutes but happily settled with DH. Woke at 9:20pm but I left her for a bit, no settling. Went in and she wanted a feed. I stayed in there for a few minutes (about 10) and then quietly left the room. She was awake and looking at me as I left. 5 minutes of little whimper noises anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute apart. And now... nothing. Sound asleep.

Another night of self settling, and this time no real "crying" just little noises. I'M SO PROUD!!! :clap: :dance:

Well Done!!! I wish i had of had your skills with my #1 - she was a nutter going to bed!
#2 always self settled though which is great.

I think with bubbas we tend to mistake the crying out as something negative but its the only way they can comunicate for a long time and they know it works on their mums!!! Too well alot of the time!

Well done on finding a solution! You must be delighted!

We found a very similar technique in a book called 'The Lull-a-Baby Sleep Plan' and it's worked so well for us this last month - even with teething we still only get 1 or 2 wakeups. The great thing is that it gets easier and easier, as they develop really positive associations with bedtime. It's easy to think that self-settling means crying to sleep, but it doesn't have to be this way - they can be soothed by your voice, and then when they're calm and happy, settle themselves down to a nice long sleep!