Too vaccinate or not?

I am still umming and ahhing about continuing vaccinating my DS.He had his two month shots but hasn't had his four and he's nearly six months old.

I have done a little research into it but I just can't make up my mind.

I am scared if I choose not to vaccinate that I will get backlash from everyone and anyone.My MCHN and Mum are already on my back about it.I am scared to even go to the Doctor because I know they will harp on at me about it.

If any of you have chosen not to vaccinate,what were your reasons and how did you deal with people who disagree with your choice?

Laura

Hi Laura,
I personally have chosen to vaccinate.
Have you got a copy of the Melbourns child? there is a massive article on it.
If you cant get a copy, PM your home address and i will post it to you.
It is a Pro immunisation article, but it cleared up a few things for me, especially the MMR debate causing autism.

The other thing to note is that one of the vaccines in the 2,4 and 6mth immunuisations has to be given within a certain window and you may well haev missed this now given Sams age.

It is such a personal choice so i am not goingto tell you either way. Its your decision :)

[link removed]

HTH

Thanks for that Sammie, I'll try and get a copy and have a read.I had a feeling I might have missed that window.

Laura, you could also come and meet with the naturopath in BellyBelly, Nicole, who supplies homeopathic vaccination kits. She is very up to date with all the research and studies and will help you make an informed decision, not based on an article in a magazine which may or may not have other interests behind it.

Remember, GP's get kickbacks for vaccinations so its no surprise. There is a great GP in Wattle Park closeby, Dr Peter Lucas. He does homebirth, he's a GP/Ob and is great to go to especially if you are looking into alternatives, as there will be no pressure. Independent midwives work with him at the clinic.

Thanks Kelly.That's a great idea.

I think Nicole might be a friend of my sisters.

Ps. You've probably already read this article on BB (cos if you are gonna read articles you need to get both sides)


10 Reasons Why Parents Choose Not To Vaccinate
Australian Vaccination Network

Haven't read that.My SIL Lent me a book about it that I have read.

Just booked an appointment with Nicole for the 2nd October!

Look mate, I always ask people who give me crap to tell me why I SHOULD. They usually have nothing really to say except they think I should do it, or maybe the '"they might catch chicken pox". My answer to that is that every child I know that has/had CP WAS vacc'd and I cant see the point.
I also don't mind if the do catch things like Measles, Mumps (they already got it!) or CP, I think they are better off catching them whilst they are young so they have PROPER immunity when they are older and things like Mumps and CP can be far more severe.
I also had a folder with information on hand to give to anyone.......but no one bothered to read my research.

When it came to MCHNs and Drs I was happy to discuss the issue, although none of them seemed to be able to go further in conversation other than, 'you should do it'.

The kids are older now and no one hassles me anymore.

Laura, I have chosen not to continue with vaccinations for my 4yo DD (who was due for her MMR) and my 1yo DS, who was vaccinated to 6mths. I have a concientious objection letter for my DS, but didn't worry about it for my DD. I actually didn't have a problem with asking my GP for the form to be signed. He asked if I knew all the pros and cons, I said I did and he was fine. His clinic sister went through the same thing again and she was fine with it too. I chose not to continue as it just didn't sit right with me to vaccinate my DS because he has reflux, a few minor food sensitivities (not allergies as such but some foods keep him up all night with reflux and stomach pain) and I didn't want to trigger anything with the vaccine ingredients. Autism was a lesser concern, but it did play a small part in my decision too - I see what an amazing personality he has and I just can't tempt fate and risk doing anything that may alter that. Also another factor was that the relative risk for us, where we live, is very small of him getting any of the illnesses not vacced for. I used to be a strong believer in the Varilrix vaccince (chicken pox) after seeing how bad my younger sister got it as a toddler, but I have now come full circle on that opinion too and have decided that if he gets it, he gets it and I will deal with it - as I will if he gets anything else. I myself had German Measles as a child and I still have immunity from it even now - whereas with the vaccination, the *immunity* can wane over time or be non-existent from the start.

If you want to do some further research, get a copy of "just a little Pr1ck" - it will give you the other side of the 'argument' as most of what you will find is very pro-vacc.

It certainly isn't an easy decision to make, and one that I think you can only make on your own - asking or even telling family members is asking for trouble and confuses the situation. If you have any more trouble from the MCHN, go and find another one. If she can't respect that you need time to make this decision, then she doesn't respect you or your parenting choices as far as Im concerned.

For me, it wasn't that hard a decision in the end and I felt quite liberated after doing it because I admit that this is the first time I have actually made a 100% informed choice about vaccinations - my eldest two are fully vaxed and I just went along with it because that's what you do isn't it? I didn't really realise that there was an option to not do it.

Good luck and I hope you can come to a decision soon.

This is an email I got last year from the Australian Vaccination Network, given that the AMA doesn't support private midwives or homebirth, nor when you go to the GP do they offer you the option of private midwives, this is further abuse of their power/money/arrogance:

Why Doesn't The AMA Want You To See This Ad?

Bill Statham, author of The Chemical Maze Shopping Companion and the Chemical Maze Bookshelf Companion - fantastic reference books on the additives and chemicals in foods and personal care/cleaning products - came forward a couple of weeks ago and kindly donated the funds needed for the AVN to place the above ad in the NSW Doctor magazine.

This magazine is publised by the AMA (Australian Medical Association) and reaches every doctor in NSW - the first state in Australia to mandate full vaccination for all medical professionals and students who work out of the hospital system.

The magazine accepted our booking form, took down our credit card details and then, only days later, wrote to tell us that:

:

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I refer to your request to place an advertisement in The NSW Doctor.

The AMA (NSW) Editorial Committee must approve of all new advertisements that are submitted for placement inThe NSW Doctor.

The Committee has decided not to accept your advertisement.

Please be assured that the credit card details provided have not, and will not, be accessed.

Laurie Pincott

Chief Executive Officer

Australian Medical Association (NSW) Ltd
PO Box 121 St Leonards NSW 1590
Phone: (02) 9439 8822 Fax: (02) 9439 8822

---

When we questioned the AMA as to what possible reason they could have for rejecting our ad (especially considering the fact they hadn't even SEEN it yet), they told us that the decision was made after checking our website and finding out that we only had one medical practitioner listed amongst our Professional Members.

As if that were really an excuse!

After contacting the Australian Press Council, the Advertising Standards Bureau and finally, the ACCC, we were told that there was nothing we could do and that they have the right to reject advertising for any reason they could possibly think of. Upon consideration, I thought of a few of those possible reasons:

1- The AMA is an industry body which gets a lot of its funding from pharmaceutical companies who have been pushing long and hard for mandating vaccines. Therefore, it would not be in their financial interest to have an educated and informed medical community - least of all in regards to this issue.

2- The NSW Doctor's advertising list is made up almost exclusively of pharmaceutical companies. Therefore, the magazine could stand to lose quite a bit of advertising revenue if they were to run our ad. (one of the reasons why Informed Voice never has and never will link advertising with editorial nor will we run advertorials - it totally destroys the credibility of a publication!)

3- The AMA not only cooperated with, but helped in the drafting of the policy which requires vaccination for health professionals. Therefore, it would be contradictory for them to actually let health professionals know about their rights when it comes to getting vaccinated.

Bill Statham has kindly extended the offer to take the funds from the NSW Doctor ad and apply them to an ad in the Lamp magazine, the publication of the Nurse's Union - another body which was actively involved in drafting this mandatory vaccination policy. I don't know if we will be any luckier there but we will certainly give it our best shot.

In the meantime, please send this email out to as many people as you possibly can and, if possible, send a copy to your local media outlets to let them know that the AMA is actively censoring the information doctors are getting and that their own financial interests come well before the interests of their members.

Why not pay a visit to our website AVN - > AVN - Home - and go to the link where we have uploaded a printable petition to try and gather names of those who are opposed to this policy. You can reach this directly at http://www.avn.org.au/index_files/Ma...peal_Mar07.pdf. We also have a live version of this petition. Please fill in your details on line and forward this link to anyone and everyone you can think of - An appeal to overturn mandatory vaccination for health care workers Petition

Make a stand!
Perhaps it is time for freedom-loving doctors and nurses to take a stand on this issue, no matter what their personal opinion is on the relative benefits and risks of vaccination, and contact these organisations to say they will stop paying their membership fees and/or union dues if both sides are not covered in the publications that are published and distributed to these respective organisations?

Perhaps it is also time for those who will be the most affected - the nursing and medical students, the doctors, nurses, occupational and physical therapists, the laundry and kitchen staff of hospitals - to do something to protect their own rights. Let them join with the AVN in fighting against this injustice. Through their support, financial, active and moral, they can ensure that others will not have to face the specture of deciding between their job and their health.

Just a few stories from the last few days that I can share with you:

1- I received a phone call from Brigitte Harvey (refer to your past issues of Informed Voice for her full story) - the nursing sister and student who won against the Hunter Valley Health Department and was allowed to do her practical work in hospital without any ramifications (after a very long fight and going to the media with her story). Brigitte has now been called into the matron's office and told that she has until November to get fully vaccinated or she is out of a job! She works with another sister who has an anaphylactic allergy to egg products - the MMR, Flu and TB vaccines all contain egg material. This nurse has been told that she needs to get the shots anyway and that they will vaccinate her in a hospital setting. I'm sure she will find that a great comfort when she is lying on the floor of the hospital, unable to breathe and losing consciousness!

2- A nursing sister in Victoria contacted me about a week ago to say that he was getting very nervous about the situation requiring vaccination. It is not yet mandatory in Victoria but he saw the writing on the wall. A few days later, he wrote back to say - "Don't worry about it. I have been told that the Victorian Health Department is holding off on implementing this policy until they see what happens in NSW." Well! If people like this nurse - who will be directly and immediately affected should this policy come into being - don't do anything now to stop it, it is only a matter of time before they will also be looking down the barrel of a syringe which is aimed fairly and squarely at them.

3- This morning, we received a very, very generous donation from someone in Portugal - yes, Portugal! Now this person is not affected by this policy nor does he have anyone in his family who is affected. He heard about this via Philip Day's E-Club newsletter and felt that it was very important to help preserve the rights of Australians and so, he has given us a donation to help keep us going! You see, this is an issue that transcends political ideals, medical dogma and just about any other restriction you might want to think of. It is a matter of civil rights and the right to choose - plain and simple.

I hope that those of you who have not yet donated or become involved with this issue will do so now. Give where you can, tell others about this situation - especially nurses, doctors and those who will be affected, and if you are not yet a member or subscriber, please do consider joining now.

Until the next time - yours in health,
Meryl Dorey

Incredible!Just crazy!

I cannot get over the fact they want to vaccinate someone anaphaltic allergy to egg.

Thanks for posting that Kelly!

Like sammijane mentioned there's a good article in Melbourne child right now about this.

In case you don't get a copy basically it says that mumps is endemic in England now because only 79% of kids are immunised compared to 90% before that study many years ago linked to autism to the MMR vaccine. This study has now been discredited but many people still believe it even though 10 out of the 12 doctors involved have distanced themselves from it. It said that kids are dying of mumps in England, the last one being a 17 year old boy.

It also has a case of a woman who's twins had tragic effects that could perhaps have been from vaccination so it's not all onesided.

When I was younger I thought I wouldn't immunise my kids. That was back in the days before the autism link was discredited. I can't exactly say why I changed my mind, but I did.

There are alternatives to injectible vaccinations like homeopathic but do you think the drug companies are gonna fund that one???!!! It is an option though and people think its just all or nothing - give homeopathic vaccination some look in, research etc.

You would be surprised actually how 'effective' vaccines are if you read the studies, that are credible.

Funny that the ones who jump up and down about people not vaccinating are not questioning why their vaccinated kids are getting things too. Shouldn't their kids be safe? The MMR is the most controversial vaccine of them all.

The MMR was the one that originally got me thinking.I read something about it having 160 times the safe dose of Magnesium(I think it was Magnesium) Don't quote me because I'm not sure that is the exact stat.But it worried me a lot.

I don't want to start a debate about it......

After doing some research today I am 99% I will choose NOT to continue with my Ds's vaccinations.My coming appointment with the Natropoth I'm sure will make that 100%.

All facts aside,I just had a 'bad' feeling about it to begin with.I did not like the way the effected my Ds after his 2 month ones.I know that babies of that change all the time.I can pinpoint the exact second a change with came about.When he had his shots.

Maybe I am crazy, I don't know.

No-one is crazy for researching as best you can and coming to the conclusion that that's whats best for your baby. I call it love, not crazy.

laurab if you choose not to do the MMR, you may still want to consider some of the others such as polio.

i researched immunisation when ds was a baby, and for me one of the considerations was the issue of social responsibility. on the one hand, your child will have 'herd protection' when almost everyone else is immunised - but on the other hand, reduction or eradication of diseases requires that everyone participate.

i looked up homoeopathic immunisation and found that anta (australian natural therapies association) does not endorse it as a replacement for the conventional vaccines. there may be other umbrella bodies that do - clearly there are individual homoeopaths who do - but you should do your own research and draw your own conclusions. as for financial incentives, they obviously apply to natural therapists too. unfortunately, economics influences everything we do...

I see your point mgm.
It is something I will be speaking to the Natropath about when I see her.

I know this is a very controversial topic and I plan on doing all my research until I am 100% sure of my choice.I know that everyone will have a different opinion on the matter and I don't think one way is right for everyone,as long as we trust what we are doing and are informed to the best of our ability,we should be respected in our decision to Vaccinate or not vaccinate.

:

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I see your point mgm.
I know that everyone will have a different opinion on the matter and I don't think one way is right for everyone,as long as we trust what we are doing and are informed to the best of our ability,we should be respected in our decision to Vaccinate or not vaccinate.

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I agree entirly

Just thought that i would point out that there is a huge diffrence between a homeopath and a Natropath.
If you are wanting a homeopathic vaccination i would make sure that you see a Homeo instead :)

I have a friend who does not vaccinate, she is a homeopath, she had never suggested that i dont vaccinate and i love her for it - i cant stand people pushing you into something to validate their reasons.
I choose to BF cos i want to, same with cloth, baby wearing BLS etc etc
I also choose to vaccinate. Its my choice, i have done my research and i dont think that i should force that or any of my decisions on another peorson.

HTH :)

Okay come on everyone, you don't know Nicole and she's not like that. She isn't pushy, she isn't bossy and she will share what she knows through her studies. Moving on please. Let people who are interested in not vaccinating make their own decision without YOU being biased too. There is NOTHING wrong with geting a naturopath/homeopath's view on this. There are plenty of places (note: MOST) that will give pro-vaccination information and I can bet most if not all of you have read the article on BB about vaccination. I applaud laura for at least giving herself two sides to the story and I will applaud her decision when she makes it either way, as will Nicole. MOVING ON.

So sorry if anyone thought that this was directed at anyone in particular, i was actually glad that this was an open discussion and no one was being pushy about it.
i guess when words are typed instead of being written they can be taken out of context.
Sorry again

Hi Laura,

I don't have a lot of time so I haven't ready any other replies yet but just wanted to let you know that we are not vacinating D, he hasn't had any needles. The reasons very quickly are that he is not at high risk of getting most of the diseases, that I would rather he gets them young, can't see the point of so many eg chicken pox - I had it young with no probs, maybe if he hadn't had by a teenager as it can get severe if they catch it later in life. We will give him a tetanus shot when he older, not sure if walking or after he is 2, once his own immune system has had a chance. I believe we are overloading our kids with so many needles. He has only ever had the sniffles once so I have never had to use any panadol etc... with him.
The community nurse never questioned why, the dr just asked why & I went through a few reason & was o.k. My family aren't really fussed about vacinations either way so for me it isn't an issue.
I have thought about homeopathic vaccinations but dp wouldn't like it.
As for your mum, I always go with the "while I value your advice/opinions mum ultimately this is my child & I make the final decisions & I am not doing it etc...." you might want to point out how there would nearly be twice as many needles now compared to when we were little.
There is also some threads from other members here to so be sure to do a search. GL with your decision.

Thanks Nic, Good to hear from you as well.

Just the type of reply I was looking for.

Im probably going to be a tad controversial, but I highly recommend visiting Quackwatch regarding health questions. As a skeptic and science trained individual (including the missus, who is a medical researcher) we are highly for vaccinations. I totally understand that what ever decision is made, its based on love for your child, and the info out there is quite confusing.

The biggest thing is get as much information as you can, and subject it to rigorous critical thinking. If you are still in favour of no immunisation, then at least you can feel comfortable with your decision. Often its weighing up the risks vs benefits. Childhood illnesses are not all innocuous, and they don't all beneficially build up your immune system. My grandmother got polio and had a limp all her life, I had measles as a child ( no vaccination at the time) and have had respiratory damage since the age of 3. But this is just personal examples, and not research. All people arguing for and against have horror stories to throw out there. The best thing is to work out the real risks and benefits. So far our little one seems to be going well with the jabs.. combined with mothers milk the little tyke will be tougher than his old man.:D

Anyhoo, its a hard debate not to have strong opinions on isnt it;)