Everything you want to know but have been too afraid to ask (about samesex parenting)

I just wanted to open up a thread like this because I've found a lot of people have a lot of questions but aren't sure how or when or where to ask. So I wanted to create a space for anyone to ask any question they have.

So ask away. I promise I, at least, won't be offended (providing the question is respectfully asked, of course). I understand that the concept of same-sex parenting, and a baby having two mums and in some cases no dad, is generally foreign to most so :) rather than have you wonder and maybe let your imagination take hold with wild ideas ;) I'd like you to ask anything you want to ask.

I'll be the first off the ball! You know I only ask out of curiosity - I honestly don't see you and Shel raising a baby any differently than if DH and I did. So here goes...

Do you see a male influence in your baby's life as important? Why/Why not?

If so, who will the male influence be? (Granfather, Uncles etc)

Ok i'll go first.

This isn't really a question...

In my head, from reading the posts of same-sex couples who are ttc, pg or parents, it pretty much sounds like they are like any other couple raising a kid... Is that a wild assumption?

I can't think of anything (other than methods of conception, and i suppose FF if both parents are men, though i did once see a programme about a couple of guys who had triplets by surrogate and they bought breastmilk for them all and never gave them FF) that would DEFINITELY be different, but everything else i kind of see it in a primary and non-primary caregivers dynamic, whatever sex the parents are, kwim? Like in our relationship when we have a baby i will be the primary, DP will be the non-primary. Some of that is definitely because of my sex, but TBH his earning power is so far beyond mine, if we were BOTH wo/men he'd STILL probably not be the first choice for primary carer, because he can do so much more in providing for our family financially than i can.

So my question is, is that really naive, and are there actually big differences (i imagine the way other people treat you might vary wildly too actually) between opposite-sex and same-sex parenting couples?

Bx

DAMN! Typed too much and missed the top spot ;)

I am also curious to know (and this is something I could ask in the AC threads) - how did you and Shel choose a sperm doner? Did you try and find a likeness to Shel?

Will Shel ever consider being the biological mummy to any future bubs?

Leasha what a great thread - Well Done!!

My question is are you worried about how people will react during school / kinder to Jazz's family dynamic and if she'll get picked on?

One of my closest girlfriends and her longterm partner have decided not to have kids based on this and just wanted to know what your thoughts are :)

how do you react when people (who don't know the situation) ask about the dad...
for example, i've got dark brown hair and ds is very blonde, so quite often, at the supermarket or something, i'll get asked 'does his dad have really blonde hair?' 'is his dad really tall?" do you know what i mean?

:) I'll answer yours first Bec.
I think there are differences, not so much in style, but dynamic. Most of the questions I've been asked are about dynamics and structure. :) Obviously theres the primary caregiver (me) and non-primary (Shel), but mostly the questions are about how we chose that IYKWIM, why we made/will make certain decisions, and actually a lot of questions about stereotypes and how we live without them (without male/female stereotypical roles how do the dynamics of our family work). I hope that makes sense...? Theres also a lot of "what if" questions people have.
But you're right, there are alot of questions where I just answer "we just do the same as any other couple", some people don't know that there isn't a difference in some things. I guess thats basically what I wanted to start this thread for, to help clear up any questions/misconceptions.

:) Amy, of course a male influence is important. Jazz doesn't have a dad, so we have made sure she has lots of other male influences. Both Shel and my dad, I have two brothers (7yo and 15yo) and theres SILs husband (mid 40s) so she's got uncles of all ages, we have a gay couple who are 'uncles' to Jazz, plus friends of the family... we've made sure she has so many different types of male influences :)

Sperm donor - we were lucky that there was an Australian donor that had practically all the same physical charateristics as Shel so that was an easy decision for us. We'd talked about what we were hoping for in a donor, and were lucky that we found the perfect one.
Shel has never really had the desire to birth a child, though she's kind of warming to the idea (though she ran FAR FAR away from the idea after supporting me through labour! but shes back to warming to it slowly). We'd have to decide if we want to use the same donor if possible, or finding a donor that has charateristics like me. Thats a tricky decision actually...

OK. Must admit I've always wanted to know if both of you (in general not just you two) get called mum or does one get called mum & the other something else?

So if shel decided to have the next baby would that mean you would then go out to work so shel would be the primary carer or would she just birth the baby and then you continue to be the primary carer to both children...

Dee, actually I'm glad someone asked this.

Firstly, when it comes to being picked on, my initial reaction is to say that kids will tease about anything. Hair colour, clothes, physical charateristics, religion etc. If its not one thing its another so thats what I say to people firstly.

But yes we are obviously worried about her being picked on about the decisions we've made. For starters I'll say that we'll never hide the fact that we are a lesbian couple, we'll never teach Jazz that it is something to hide or be ashamed of. We'll be teaching her that some people don't understand that there are lots of different types of love, so there might be people who aren't very nice.

At the moment I am working with a GLBTI organistation and the education department about incorporating same-sex family structure into the curriculum from Prep. Not sex education, but just including that sometimes two women or two men love each other and they are a family too. There are books out there that are appropriate to 5yo's so trying to get schools to stock them and read them. We're also going to be very involved with the P&C with whatever school she goes to, to encourage diversity and acceptance.

Ultimately though we're looking into Montessori for her primary education, as I know they are very openminded and accepting.

Rainforest, I've been told she is going to be tall and then asked if her dad is tall. I answer "she's going to be tall like her other mum, because we chose a donor who was just like her" which I think answers the question quite well ;) We chose a donor like Shel so those questions would be pretty easy to answer.

Satya, well most of the time I am mumma or booby mumma lol (like in my sig) and she is mummy. Sometimes we just say mum and other mum depending on who is saying it. But we're both some form of mum.

Tali, well at the moment (this is fairly tentative) in 12-18 months time, if Shel decides she wants to birth the next baby then she will become primary carer and I'm going to be the working parent. If I'm going to birth the next bub then I'll be staying home. But whoever births will be primary carer of the kidlets. If Shel doesn't want to birth #3 (and at this stage 3 is our limit) we'll have to work out something as we do both want the experience of being stay at home mum.

Thats very brave of you Leasha, I couldnt give up been a SAHM mum, BHL has said ( on a bad day ) that he would love to be a SAHD.... So he could work in the garden and play on his car LOL like that would happen.... But I know he knows that he couldnt do it just like I know I couldnt go to work each day a miss even a second of what the winkies are doing...As much as the drive me batty at times...

Hey Leasha....

Thanks for answering .....

I agree with you - kids will tease over [I]anything[/I] i think it's great you guys are going to be so involved and teach the other kids that there are so many different ways of being a family :)

not really sure where this is coming from or even if a q you can answer BUT , i know of a lesbian couple who have a child and now currently PG with number 2 (each woman have taken turns in carrying the child )

But what stuck out to me is that this couple got ivf for free from the defence force (they both work in the DF) SO do you think that they could be using the DF to have babies for free .. as i assume you had to fork out alot of money to help concieve Jazz?? I kinda felt put out by the fact that i know alot of ttcers who put so much money into IVF and no result where as they were at the front of the line and concieved .. they joked it was a present from the DF for working for them ...

And did you find much ignorance from FS , seeing as you are gay and wanting childern ?? kwim ..
were your treated any different ?? and how were you treated in Hosp ???

AND do you get stupid questions like "whos the man in the relationship ??" i think ignorance has alot to do with silly questions and im so glad that you are trying to make a difference in understanding !!

It's a hard decision for me to make to give up being a stay at home mum... I guess to me I know how much I love it, I love watching her learn and grow, and I hate the fact that Shel is missing out, I just want her to be able to experience that too, and so does she. It would be hard for me to go to work, but then I think it'd be equally as hard for Shel so I kind of feel really selfish for wanting her to support us all the time and not have this experience with Jazz and other kids when they come along.

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im so glad that you are trying to make a difference in understanding !!

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I agree. I think it's fantastic that you are putting yourself out there to openly clear up an misconceptions. Well done!! :clap:

Hey! I didn't know you got it for free if you worked for the DF... time for a career change!

PMSL JOKING!

Lea, not sure if I could answer that... maybe yes, but then it'd really suck working for someone just for that if you don't at least like what you're doing so if it is just for free fertility treatment then they would be pretty unsatisfied with their work. So I'd feel sorry for them if that was their motivation.

I have PCOS so our final out of pocket wasn't too severe, but I know of couples who do fork out thousands. Now, I'm pretty unpopular in the lesbian parenting 'circuit' for this opinion BUT i\ll say it anyway because its what I think...
I'm a lesbian, I can't help that, but I do chose to be in a lesbian relationship. I don't chose who I love, but I chose who I have a relationship with. I chose love and happiness, and the reality is we have no sperm between us. I can't be bitter about it, and about the fact that we have to include someone else in our family plans or pay for an unknown donor. I'm personally ok with paying for sperm if it means I am parenting with the woman that I love. I did get a rebate from Medicare, but before we knew that I had PCOS we were prepared to pay the full amount.
(I know that was OT but I thought it might come up so I'll answer it now)

From our FS, we found them a little stand off-ish at first, but I think they are like that to everyone. In the end we were treated as no different, Shel and I both had to sign the agreement, they respected that she was my partner and was treated as my partner every step of the way. In hospital we were treated wonderfully, there was no question at all, we didn't have to ask for recognition, that was just a given. Shel was the one to be with Jazz while I was in recovery, there was never any insinuation that it would be any other way, and on my charts and on Jazz's little record they wrote Shel in automatically. It was fantastic!

PMSL when someone asks "who's the man" I say "neither, we're lesbians" :p

firstly congrats and thank you for this wonderful idea.

My question is one that just popped into my head.
Who's surname does Jazz have?

Also there a lot of kids out there without dad's and they do fine.
She is a very lucky girl to have two wonderful mothers who adore her, if only all children had that!!

:clap::clap::clap:

Catherine, I changed my surname to Shel's surname (lots of reasons why) so we all have the same surname :D

So after choosing a donor that dispays characteristics the same as Shel's - can you see a resemblance now that Jazz is here?

Most people say she looks exactly like me! She is very long though, compared to me as a baby so I know she'll be tall like Shel!

Thanks. By the way Jazz is so cute!!!
Give her a big hug from me!!

Just one question I hope its not too forward. Do you think having lesbian mums will affect Jazz's choice of relationships when she is older, like would she choose to be a lesbian because her mums are lesbians and she is comfortable with it or do you think it wouldn't make a difference in her choice?

I think Jazz is a very lucky little girl to have two caring loving mums. If she gets teased i'm sure she will have two mums standing up for her.

I doubt very much she'll get teased. I had a lesbian guardian for a short period (in my teen years) and I was fine, my godfather is gay, I also had two friends in high school and one in primary school who had 2 mums and none of them ever got teased. She'll be fiiiine. If anything she'll be more open minded than most and thats totally awesome :)

Well done Leasha answering all these questions :clap: You are so right about many people having questions but not often feeling there is a right time to ask. Here's mine:

When I was pregnant, in labour and for a while post labour I occassionally felt resentful that my DH couldn't understand how uncomfortable, painful, hormonal I felt. In labour I didn't abuse him or blame him like some women do with their partners but I REALLY wished I could have hooked up wires leading from my brain (pain center) to his so that he could gain some insight as to what I was actually going through. However at the end of the day I conceded that because he was male I'd just have to accept that he would just never know my pain... he isn't meant to know... he is meant to be my protector and keep an eye out for savage beasts that might be preying on vulnerable me and baby LOL Now, if I was in a Lesbian relationship I wouldn't have that to fall back on. I reckon my resentment regarding any perceived lack of empathy would really get to me.

Doesn't it bug you that, as another woman, Shell is physically capable of empathy... but isn't? IYKWIM? She kinda doesn't have the excuse of being biologically incapable like a bloke does. Geeze i hope that came out right! :redface: Maybe most women don't think like I do... LOL and that I'm strange for wanting my DH to experience the pain. Kinda like when I catch a cold and spend all day in bed feeling guilty but suffering in silence.... then 3 days later DH catches it and claims he is dying LOL Doesn't it feel sooooo good to finally feel JUSTIFIED!??? ETA: BTW I'm not mean about it when he does fall sick... I "mother" him nicely because i have some empathy of what it's like to be sick :)

Hi

Just want to put my 2cents worth in.

My son started school and has always had a boy in his class who is from a same sex family. This little boy was a product of a friend's donor sperm. Now I have become great friends with this boy's birth mum and the children over the last five years have NEVER teased him about "having two mums". Children are so accepting these days they have never known any different. The only prejudice received is from parents not children, but I must mention that is very minimal. Families these days are made up of lots of different people, grandparents, aunts and uncles, foster parents, single parent families. There isn't a "norm".

My view is that if the child is loved and cared for who cares how they came about. But I just wanted to point out my experience.

This may be a silly question but... What circle of friends are u2 in? Do you have more lesibian/gay couples/singles as friends? or do you have a hetrosexual couples/singles... Is there a difference in who you get along better? Is there still a huge stigma around gay couples...

I'm soooooooo sorry if that has offended you in any way. or i asked too many questions........

BTW we havent met, but through reading on here i feel like i've got to know you an i think your just ace :)

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Do you think having lesbian mums will affect Jazz's choice of relationships when she is older, like would she choose to be a lesbian because her mums are lesbians and she is comfortable with it or do you think it wouldn't make a difference in her choice?

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Well, I don't think you chose to be a lesbian, I think its just who you are. I don't know who she'll be attracted, but I don't think it'll make a difference. I'm a lesbian and my parents are straight, so it wouldn't be any different for Jazz ;)

Thanks Cai :) and Trish

Woah Bath, ok, hmm... Well! lol
Obviously theres no man in our relationship so we don't have the clear cut 'protector/nurturer' roles IYKWIM, so we each take, well kind of like turns I guess (though its not we say 'ok your turn to be protector' lol) so there are days when Shel feels like my protector and I feel like I am the one to stand behind her. Then there are days when I feel extremely protective, like theres a bump in the night and I'll be the one to investigate (or if theres a spider :rofl:).

When I think about labour I feel the protector side, I don't want her to go through that pain, I want to be able to do that for her, I want to ptotect her from that. Maybe its because I know that she is capable of feeling it though. I think I'd probably be pretty resentful if I was with a male partner, I could say "its all right for you, you'll never have to go through it!". Because Shel CAN I worry about her and if she'll be ok. I think its because she can, and because we 'share' that protecting role. Does that make sense?

Cassie, most of our friends are straight, generally couples with kids. We have a few gay and lesbian friends, but most of them arent on the settle down with a family page yet so we dont have much in common. Theres no difference with who I get along with. A d!ckhead is a d!ckhead, gay or straight lol! I don't avoid or gravitate to people based on sexuality :)
As for stigma, depends... Generally people are accepting, you get those who just tolerate, and there are the ignorant ones who don't understand. Then there are the narrow minded people who have the capacity to understand but choose not to because they fear the unknown and hate those who challenge their archaic ideals and beliefs. Luckily its mostly the first 3 groups, and I can deal with that ;)

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PMSL when someone asks "who's the man" I say "neither, we're lesbians" :p

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busy thread only just got around to reading it ,... but has anyone actually asked you that:o

Yep, we have a 'friend' actually who loves to joke about it, and even went so far as to say "I'm having a girls night, oh Shel you can't come you're the man you go out with the boys" :o

I think its just easier for some people to 'straighten' our realtionship IYKWIM. If they see one as the 'woman' and one as the 'man' its less confronting than two woman.

hi leash, just readin this thread and ur amazing to think about ppls questions n to answer them. I havent go a question iv got a few cousins who are in same sex couples so i am aware of the stuff being asked. You r amazin hun. Say hi to shell 4 me n give jazz a big hug. Take care rach x x

Leasha just wanted to say i think its awesome that you have started this thread... I guess most people tend to be hesitant with their curiosity... and i think thats why alot of people dont understand or open their minds. I think this thread is a fantastic idea for people to see things more openly...

Few of my questions have been answered...

Also :rofl: I can just imagine the faces once you reply with this...

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Originally Posted by ~Leasha~
PMSL when someone asks "who's the man" I say "neither, we're lesbians"

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Just wanted to add about the surname stuff... How did you choose who's surname to use??? Was there a clear choice or was it something that was discussed and agreed apon. Also excuse my ignorance but was curios about Jazz's birth certificate... Does it show both of your names??? like i know with my kids they have the mother and father part with details etc... do they accomodate this for you both??? I'd really hope that they would. :redface:

I think as you just said most people like to straighten out the relationship making either party the 'man' or 'women' does this get frustrating or do you think it is a way for people to somehow accept things better??? Kinda like a coping mechanisim for narrow minded people???

Also... just wanted to add with the "protector' stuff.. I have a man and still need to get up to bumps in the night and to kill bugs and spiders... :rofl:

Thanks again for the thread leasha.

Just wanted to ask you about what you said earlier about not having a popular opinion amongst other G&L parents about the whole IVF and the cost of it etc - it there an 'us and them' and why? I don't see why your opinion would be unpopular because what you said is pretty straightforward to me. And if there is a *divide* is it just borne out of frustration at the cost of becoming a parent?

And FWIW, when I was in year 10 there was a girl who came to our school who had two mums (but I think her birth mum's partner was a new partner kwim? So she was her stepmum I suppose) and in a very small country town in the early 90's that did raise a few eyebrows, but she was never picked on for that, but she was an oddity in her own right LOL so she copped a bit of flack for that as opposed to her family. So I can't see why in this day and age Jazz would have any issues from her peers, especially because you're already making great inroads in that area.

Hi Jess :)

It was a fairly easy decision about the surname. My ties to my father and my fathers family are thin at best, and to be honest it was kind of liberating to break free of them, to be separate. Also they didn't accept Shel so there was never any desire on my or Shels part for her to take my fathers family name. Also, Shel's biological father passed away a few months before she was born, and she has his family name, so its is very important to her and I could never have asked her to consider changing her name, and so it was a fairly easy decision. Plus her surname is quite nice which too which is always a bonus!

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I think as you just said most people like to straighten out the relationship making either party the 'man' or 'women' does this get frustrating or do you think it is a way for people to somehow accept things better??? Kinda like a coping mechanisim for narrow minded people???

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I think it makes it a lot less confronting. They can apply their own stereotypes to our relationship, relate it to theirs, and it makes it easier for them to accept or at least tolerate.

Trillian, I think its mostly out of frustration at the cost ("its so unfair that 'we' have to pay for something that 'they' get for free" meaning sperm and the chance to be pregnant). I'm not as angry about it, I'm not angry that Medicare doesnt subsidise for woman who arent medically infertile. Yes it would be nice but... maybe its because I have PCOS... but then, we were prepared to pay the full fees before we knew... maybe I've just had some bad experiences with some people (not all though!).

I dont mean this rudly or anything but really just dont know so thought why not ask...

In the eyes of the law are you classed as a single parent or are you classed as a defacto parents....

And if you are classed as a single parent does that also mean you are intiled to sigle parent payments?

Wow. Leasha, I just wanted to say what an amazing thread this is.... I think it's fantastic that you've opened it up.

Tali, yes I'm seen as a single parent, and yes I get the single parents payment. I justify getting this even though I am in a defacto relationship because legally we aren't recognised as a couple so do not get a family dafety net, meaning we have to pay more to reach the limit than a straight family, we have to pay legal fees for a parenting order so we are both recognised as having parental rights and responsibilities which comes for free to straight couples, and if we were a staright couple we would ge a HCC based on Shel's wage, and she would have a HCC/be on my HCC (not sure exactly how that would work), but as it is now she does not, so Shel does not get any entitlements which costs us more.

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Tali, yes I'm seen as a single parent, and yes I get the single parents payment. I justify getting this even though I am in a defacto relationship because legally we aren't recognised as a couple so do not get a family dafety net, meaning we have to pay more to reach the limit than a straight family, we have to pay legal fees for a parenting order so we are both recognised as having parental rights and responsibilities which comes for free to straight couples, and if we were a staright couple we would ge a HCC based on Shel's wage, and she would have a HCC/be on my HCC (not sure exactly how that would work), but as it is now she does not, so Shel does not get any entitlements which costs us more.

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I dont think you should have to justify anything.... If the Goverment wasnt so old fashioned you would be seen as what you are a relationship, between two people who love each other enough to want to bring a baby into this world...

I bet you would drop the single parent payment if they would see you as a defacto...

Anyway thanks for answering all the questions I am learn heaps...BTW cant wait to meet you and all the other brissy/sunny coast girls next year :dance:

Well done Leesha for being an amazing woman. thankoyu for sharing your experiences and thoughts! :clap: xx

Thanks Tali, can't wait to meet you are your gorgeous ones too! Yep, next year we will be seen as a family, well defacto at least, so YAY :dance: Sorry, I have done it on other posts too, defensive for no reason :redface: