Please help I need some sleep

Quinn is a horrible sleeper. He is up 4-10:o times everynight. I co-sleep but have recently moved him to the cot with the side off butted up between the wall and my bed. This has not helped.
He dosn't nurse to sleep, I don't rock him, We have a bedtime routine and then I just sit with him for up to an hour while he rolls around slowly winding down and finally drifts off. I'm there when he wakes because the cot is right beside the bed so it's not a matter of waking in different surroundings or anything like that....

He does nurse back to sleep and I think this is the problem. Day time nursings have become a play session, he sucks then comes off and plays with the nipple with his hands, squirts milk has another suck, slides off my laps, gets back on and repeat :doh:
I think he gets the majority of his milk calories at night:rolleyes: and I am not sure how to change it, if he is not that interested in nursing through the day. I offer the breast often during the day.

Can I offer water at night to make him nurse properly though the day?

I can't cut his calories because he has been maintaining 9kg for 4 months, he only just put 200gms on in the last few weeks.... before that there was no movement on the scales for 12 weeks

crying it out it not an option because he gets severe eczema and the major trigger is heat and stress. So a CIO session would just flare his skin and then he'd be to itchy to sleep anyway...

oh and naps he has two or three half hour naps in the stroller. He won't sleep anywhere else during the day because he can't switch off. I have to put him in the stroller to pysically restrain him so he can wind down.... He's a little whirlwind. He's always been this way, even as a newborn he was super alert and awake a lot.

Sorry this is long but I just don't know what else to do. My early childhood nurse suggested sleep school and had no real other suggestions.

If he's a little whirlwind - is he getting caffeine from you? My DS seems to be much more affected by caffeine than the other bubs in our Mum's group - more than one tea a day and we are guaranteed a poor night's sleep.

Can you increase his solids during the day? And really really try and offer BF in the hour or 2 before bed?

I hope it improves for you
hugs
Kate

Thanks I had not thought of caffine.:doh: I do have a bit of it in the mornings to get me going :S
He does really well with solids. I guess I need to cut the caffine and insist he breastfeed better

Can i recommend a website for u too check out - it helped us heaps with our little one!
Google Worlds best sleep solutions (the sleep store) - or its Segment Publishing : Design.Develop.Host
Hopefully that helps u!

Maybe offer him something to focus on? I found with my DS that during the day, he'd sleep really badly (not turn off) until I found out he'd zone out watching the leaves on the tree move. At night, just something to watch - a light show on the wall, even a computer screensaver would help.

Good luck!

ops are we not suppose to reccomend websites? cause what is written there is not what i wrote!
I apologise everyone if we are not meant too! :o

sleep school is a good idea. a friend of mine went to one with her 11 month old and hasnt looked back :)

Aren't sleep schools just CIO camps???

Melissa

Yes they are, I've been to two and left both early.

Have you thought about the effect dairy may be having?

I'd also maybe try to stop the playtime routine. Maybe get up off the couch and make a cuppa when he slides off the boob for a play, and not be so available to him for so long. So when is boob time its lunchtime iykwim?

We are dairy egg and soy free. Quinn has multiple allergies :( so not that I'm afraid :(

Thanks for the suggestion to not let him play I'll give that a go

Melissa

mel- my ds went through an absolutely shocking sleep period when he was 9-10 months old. i even signed up to go to sleep school, even though i am totally against cio and cc. anyway, i couldn't go through with it and pulled out at the last minute- it just didn't feel right.
i basically just kept doing what i was doing, and he has gotten a lot better (except for when he is sick or teethingLOL). i noticed a real difference once he got to about 12.5 months. hopefully this is just a 'stage' your ds is going through and that things will get better without you having to do anything too drastic.

Thanks Rainforest I am hoping it is just phase that passes quickly too :)

Mel

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Aren't sleep schools just CIO camps???

Melissa

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CIO?

Do you mean controlled crying?

The one here isn't :) They helped show my friend how to settle her little one without feeding and rocking, they helped stop her from waking 5+ times a night. She is anti CC so no it wasn't and she was happy with it

oh that's good to know! thanks

Hi, another one here who had serious sleep deprivation and sleep settling issues at your DS's stage.

I think you have some really good advice here, especially regarding diet (caffeine) and routines. I would definitely try to get up when he tries to play in the middle of a feed and try again later.

I had trouble from about 6 months until 10 months, that was when I completely fell apart after tying so many different techniques for months. I eventually tried a sleep school and it was a savior! We have never looked back. Not all sleep schools are CC only, it is worth having a chat to the staff there to work out how they run the school and how much consideration they place in your wishes.

The most important thing they gave me was the tools to make sleep work throughout the day and night. My DD was having 20-40 min naps daily also and it was pointed out that this was not enough. It means waking at the end of a sleep cycle rather than re-settling and it can be really important to be able to re-settle to get a decent amount of sleep. I was assisted to set up a (flexible) sleep feed play routine again (I had let it go from the early days) and it helped immensely. It might help your DS concentrate on his feeding if it comes after a sleep so that he is more groggy rather than after a play?? (sorry if this is something you already do!)

One other bit of advice from sleep school was to completely drop night feeds (other than a dreamfeed if necessary) by that age. I had been feeding throughout the night and trying to drop feed slowly and I was so relieved to hear that it was ok to just let night feeds go. Apparently my feeding at night was contributing to her mucked up schedule at that age. We kept the dream feed for a few weeks but straight away my DD was sleeping better at night and during the day and BFing much better throughout the day. I would definitely try giving him water in the place of a BF at night.... however.... as with all advice, if it doesn't feel right, go back to what you are comfortable with. Just because it works for one baby doesn't mean.....

especially with your DS's eczema flare ups, you don't want to stress him. Just make sure you treat yourself with as much respect as you need to look after you too!

with regards to the difficulties you have getting him to wind down, I am not much help - although you may wish to look at the effects of some food additives? Sounds like he is an energetic little boy! Lucky you!! ;)

hI, we're going through the exact same thing. I was on the phone to my maternal nurse this morning and she just told me to do controlled crying or CIO ( Cry it out). My little one has been waking every 45 mins - 1 hr for the last 8 nights, but generally about 5 times a night since she was 4 months old.

We went to an osteo today for the first time, and it may be complete co-incidence, but she's been asleep for 2 hours already and i can't believe it!!

I'm also getting her checked out at the GP for any sort of sensitivities - i've a feeling dairy may be as we also have eczema in the close family. And any ear issues too.

Perhaps try osteopathy? hugs to you though - it's sooooo exhausting,isn't it?

I was heading towards doing CC and did it once:redface: but thankfully I called the parent help line and they told me that they don't reccommend that any more. They suggested wrapping him, What the? I stopped wrapping at 4 months but incredibly it is working!!!!! We did have a few sessions where he would cry a bit, but Iwas there the whole time and he dropped of within 15mins or so and never did he cry for very long. I would pat the mattress, he doesn't like being touched, and go faster and louder if he was crying and he would stop. We have since put a fan in his room and after he is wrapped he watches that to go to sleep, without me there. Twice he has been quite happy and talked to himself/the fan until he went to sleep. he unwrapped himself a bit but I don't mind, he is putting himself to sleep. HE is also sleeping longer and I am much much less stressed.

Overnight is still a huge issue with me doing night feeds but now he is going to sleep I feel I can start the 'no cry sleep solutions' techniques. When nothing was working to get him to sleep I couldn't do what I usually would.
Maybe try wrapping and see what happens. It all depends on what level of crying you are happy with - none at all ever or a little bit with you present.

thanks everyone just thought you'd all like an update. I cut down my caffeine two small glasses of coke zero a day, right after Quinn feeds and while he is still waking 3 times for a feed he is settling right back down to sleep and not being so fidgety in his sleep. We are both getting 50% more sleep now!
Also I stopped offering the breast every time he moved through the day and now I give him one good feed at 7am, 10am and another good feed at 2pm, then a good feed at 7pm plus the ones overnight. He's eating his solids well as usual.
He's not playing the way he was because he's too hungry to bother.

So I have had success with cutting the caffeine! what a vicious cycle that was, drink caffeine because I'm tired, get no sleep because of the caffeine!!

I'm glad things are better - it's a horrible cycle, and some bubs are sooo much more sensitive than others!
Do they still make "caffeine free diet coke"? I remember thinking that it was the most pointless drink ever, but you may be their perfect customer!

Yup LOL! They even do it in cans now so yes I have been buying it! LOL!!!

Melissa

I have done the caffeine free diet coke too:lol:. I do wonder what hte point is too but it sort of tastes like coke. It is better than nothing