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The countdown begins as we have only 8 more weeks!!! so exited but being a first time mum, i dont know what to expect when labour comes and what sort of pain reliefs are safe and effective. i would love an epidural, as people say you dont feel any pain as all! but people say that you dont recover as quickly as if you only had gas, also does epidurals have any effect on the baby? What is the most safest and effective pain relief that you would reccommend?
Epidurals aren't all that easy to get in some hospitals. I told the hossy I wanted one when I arrived but it was never offered to me and I forgot to ask again as I was in so much pain (sounds silly I know). I had been warned by others who'd been to my hossy that they avoid them wherever possible. I think epidurals can lead to longer labours & problems with pushing as you might not be able to feel what you are doing. Because of this I think intervention rates are also higher.
I had gas & peth. Gas only took the edge off & peth worked far better.
All pain relief has it's risks. I think gas is fairly risk free but if you have a lot of it you can feel out of it. Peth can make bub drowsy & make you feel out of it. I was completely out of it after I gave birth as I'd had so much gas & peth.
Bubbles, you might find it helpful to read some of the birth articles in the Articles section of the main website.
Here and here are articles on epidurals in birth, which give detail on the possible implications to your labour and to your baby. You might also find the threads and articles on active labour, hypnobirthing and the use of water in labour useful if you wish to investigate alternatives to conventional pain relief. Have a look through the Birth and Labour section of the forum and the website; there are lots of great resources.
No one person can say what the most effective form of pain relief is because it will differ greatly from one person to the next. Whilst useful, each form of pain relief carries with it some risks and potential disadvantages. The best thing that you can do is to arm yourself with as much information as possible on what the effects, advantages and disadvantages of each kind of pain relief are, and then decide if this is something that you think you want to utilise for your labour.
Some say that the best form of pain relief in labour is education - having a good understanding of what happens in labour is one of the best ways to manage it and to deciding what is going to be best for you.
Good luck for your upcoming birth!
I had an epidural during labour and it was a double edged sword. In many ways, it was great. I got to a point where I was no longer handling the pain and it was superb for pain relief. In the end, I also had a baby who was very big and had trouble fitting through my pelvis, so he had to be vacuumed out rather forcefully, and I had to be stiched for ages- so I am very glad I had an epi for all that!
But at the same time, the epidural slowed down my labour, making my contractions less effective at dilating me. Also, because I couldn't stand, I had to birth on my back, which is the worst position and lead to me tearing worse than if I had been able to get into another position.
As far as recovery goes, from the actual epidural, I had no problems. It wore off in a matter of hours and I had no ongoing issues whatsoever. From a broader perspective, though, because I tore very badly because of the posi I was in from the epi, recovery was a very long and painful process indeed.
On the whole, I don't regret having the epi, but it DOES come with a cost. Sometimes it can seem like an epi is a kind of magic cure to labour pain- and it does do a fabulous job of pain relief- but it has very real downsides as well.
you might want to check out hospital policy on epidurals at your own hospy. I had one with my first, and it was great, but policy here is to let it wear off at the pushing stage so you can feel more and are less likely to need forceps etc. Sounds good in theory, but after 12 hrs of feeling pretty comfy .... whamo! it all hits at once and you have to push... was a bit of a shock to the system for me. second time round all i had was gas and that was easier.
we all react differently to different things.....
I had gas and pethadine with both DDs and only gas with DS and survived all births OK! I agree it depends on you what works best. I was terrified of epidurals as my friend had one and it shut down her whole body and they had to revive her then give her a general and a C/S. I realise that its pretty rare but I decided I didn't want anyone messing around in my spine LOL
I have other friends who swear by epidurals so really you will find supporters for every form of pain relief including none!
It is great that you are getting prepared. I really wish I had learnt more before my first labour. The best thing I did before my second labour was to read New Active Birth. That gave me the knowledge about position, breathing etc that helped me birth with just gas.
Quite honestly, having had one birth with an epidural and one without, it is much better IMO to not have one. An epidural increases the risk of further intervention and this is what happened to me. I know you are probably thinking so what, but trust me, you will realise if you end up on that cascade of interventions path, just why it is not advisable. I can also tell you from experience that you will feel a mile better after the birth for not having drugs and also recover quicker, much quicker. I really recommend that you aim for no pain relief as the first option, and if you do have some try to stick with just gas.
I think most women accept drugs readily out of fear and lack of kowledge. I know I did first time. You worry that you won't be able to cope long before it gets to the point of not coping. This is why reading the right books is so important. Check out the reading list from the OP of any Belly Buddies thread and start reading. Best of luck Hun.
A doula! Women who labour with a doula need MUCH less pain relief. Not because of the people who use them, but because they are more supported, continuously supported by someone experienced in birth support.
I 2nd Kelly on this one. For my latest birth (my DS) i had a doula and she was the best. I ended up with a drug free labour and it was by far the best out of the 3.:
For both my DD's i had gas, whilst it took the edge off the pain, it wasnt really pain relief as such. It helped for the small amount of time, but if you dont start sucking at the right moment, it doesnt kick in, in time for the peak of the contraction where all the pain is!
As silly as it sounds....chants in your mind are a good pain relief. For my DS i repeated in my head: I can do this, i can do this....and it really did help!
thanks so much for the useful information! I sure will be reading up on some more info- at first i was thinking of epi. Now im hoping to use nothing at all if possible. I think maybe thats the best way for recovery and for the baby. I must read up on that new active birth book :)
For me, water. Soothing water, a shower trickling on my back while on all fours, or a bath. Helps you relax, which helps you breathe through contractions, the warmth soothes muscles and pain, and if you're in a bath, the weightlessness takes any external pressure out of contractions.
I had an epidural and it was FANTASTIC! A lot of people are very quick to dismiss them due to the possibility of further intevention, but honestly, that doesn't bother me and if it's offered to me again I'll be taking it. If you're not so keen on feeling the pain (as I am) then I'd go for whatever makes you feel the most comfortable, be it epidural, gas, shower (which was also amazingly helpful- almost as good as the epi for me) or doula (which I'm not so keen on, but different strokes and all that). At the end of the day, no matter which method of pain relief you choose or how much intervention there is you'll get to hold you're beautiful bundle at the end of it all, and that's what's most important.
Good luck with the birth and with meeting you're new little person!!
Like I said before, I'll totally agree with Tutmae about the shower being brilliant. (I had my second child in a shower/bath!)
I suppose that's okay that you don't mind unplanned intervention Tutmae, but I'd say you're in the minority there! :)
An epidural may remove pain but if you end up with episiotomy and / or forceps vacuum to go with it, the pain can go on for weeks - and for some last a lifetime. Not all of course, but statistically you are more likely to end up with those things if you opt for an epi. Makes much more sense to try and avoid that so you can avoid the rest, especially if it means you cope and are supported well and dont feel the need for the epi in the first place, i.e. with a doula, or continuity of care as you would get with an independent midwife.
Your own endorphins! Nature has you equipped with your own pain relief which kicks in during labour if you are in the right state of mind, and labouring actively.
A wonderful book to read is "Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering" Dr Sarah Buckley. It goes into the complx interplay of hormones our bodies utilise during birth in a lot of detail, but it is really easy to understand, and shows how using synthetic drugs can be detrimantal not only to ourselves, but to our babies as well, and can have effects on them after the birth is over, in the form of difficulty breathing, not establishing breastfeeding very well, etc.
I really recommend you read it :)
Also a very interesting book is "Childbirth Without Fear" Grantly D!ck Read, he was one of the first people to identify the fear = tension = pain relationship when giving birth, and talks about how if we work to eliminate all fear, we take away the tension, and minimise pain, and part of that is being relaxed so our bodies can get on with manufacturing and using its own pain relief.
Also some people find calmbirth or hypnobirth techniches really helpful as well...
And yes, a great support team is invaluable as well!
All the best, keep researching into it :)
I think the most obvious fact here is that there are so many options and so many opinions that you've just got to research and work out what sounds most appropriate for you. The best advice I was given was not shut down any of your options beforehand and to have all the information possible. You may get in there and realise that you're fine and can cope without anything (that's what I'm hoping for myself the second time around :crossfingers:) or you may find that something you thought you wouldn't want is exactly what you need. Preparation and information are your best friend!
Nelle: I think you're right about the unplanned intervention! Heehee, I just know my weaknesses too darn well and it makes that needle so very tempting :D. But here's hoping it wont be needed this time round!
i regret pain relief bigtime! the peth knocked me out for most of my labour, im talking hours, i then had an epi which lead to an episotomy which as kelly said can have longterm effects! it took ages to recover from, probably longer than those who had c/s, sex was painfull for almost a year, i could feel where i had the epi in my back for about 12 months. not to mention things were foggy after the birth from the peth- my biggest regret, not having clear mind, forgetting those preciuos moments after the birth.
this time im having a doula, reading, informing myself of best postions, positive thinking will be using different pain relief such as massage, sterile water injections etc.
i understand that the epidural is the way for some but your lucky if you get away without further intervention. just remember that 'cascade of intervention' that associated with things such as epis.
I got an epi with all 3 of my labours. I demanded it with Chase because they weren't gonna give one to me because I was already 7cm dilated, so they called the doc who came and said I was 8cm, too far along, so I said "well I ain't pushing this bub out without one" and I won lol It was bliss!!
Epidural are safe for bubs :) I had gas and HATED it. It made me want to vomit. I wouldn't touch pethidine because it's not safe for bubs.
I didn't have any unnecessary intervention, I wasn't cut and I could feel the urge to push fine, it was just painless.
I had an epi with number one, I also had episiotomy, and I recovered quicker than with my second birth no pain relief. I would have considered it for number 2 except I had her in less than 2 hours. Dont' dismiss anything, just read up on it. I also tried gas and it did make me sick. Disgusting!
I would like to go drug free this time as well, but again, I will go in with open mind, because if I do need pain relief, I dont' want to feel bad that I have it. xo
Right on!:
If you can get your head around the ways that your body supports your efforts to birth your baby, AND create conditions for your birth that will facilitate that (eg. stay home as long as possible, darkness, privacy, minimising interference, good support - either from a well prepared partner or a doula or both etc) you have a fantastic chance of just eliminating all the risks and drawbacks associated with chemical pain relief and doing it on your own.
There are some great books and information out there (even articles here on BB) about the role of labour pain and how it is different to other forms of pain. Often the desire to go straight for drugs is a fear issue, or a control issue or both. Have a think about these things too...we are of a generation that is not at all used to having to put up with discomfort and is also used to being able to fix and control things. Labour is about letting go of control to a large degree and this is something many of us are fearful of. That can make medicating the pain a very attractive option too.
Epidurals can have their place but they are not a magic bullet. For first time mothers especially, the risk of further interventions after them is very high, and very real. It's not scaremongering, it is clear in black and white every year when the perinatal data is released that caesarean, episiotomies and instrument use (forceps, ventouse) are all extremely high for first time mothers who have an epidural. You're also more likely to end up with syntocinon augmentation after an epidural - which increases your risk of a distressed baby.
So really look into it and if you do decide that you want to do it naturally, make sure that you prepare. While birth is instinctive we are so out of touch with our really primal instincts now that it definitely pays to do a bit of work beforehand to reconnect with the part of us that will carry us through the journey :)
Good luck.
Saying an epidural is safe for babies is not correct, you can't make statements like that if you haven't researched it. Did you know epidurals lower YOUR blood pressure while means less blood hence oxygen flow to the baby too? A baby can go into distress from it, I have seen it happen, mum was so close to birth but opted for an epi, baby crashed, they tried vacuum and forceps, both failed and it was an emergency c/s.
When people sing praises of epis which do have their place, they are talking up the risk of episiotomy, which can also result in infected stitches and women having to be restitched (not rare ocurrances, bb members have had this), vacuum and forceps which can fail and they can also result in pelvic floor issues, like prolapse and incontinence (again BB members have had this). Not to mention crashing babies - this also happened to the woman who runs Calmbirth at BB, she had a breech bub in a bad position and her baby crashed on the table after the epi and was in intensive care for ages because I am pretty sure she had to be revived for about 30 mins after birth. I cannot take epidurals lightly.
A simple, quick fix has many risks which you dont realise when you promote epidurals. Yes that can be ideal in certain situations. But encouraging people to have them when they can have serious implications and side effects, I think is not on. Need to research something properly before saying its safe, or the best thing... because with any intervention there are side effects. Just because you read it in books which you think are anti-intervention or on forums like this, doesn't mean it's just someone's opinion, its based on fact, and just myself doing some births have seen it with my own eyes. And that is very small snippets of the population, I only attend 1-2 births a month, less now, so how many women are going through this then thinking thank god they were in hospital, they had the doctor and hospital to 'save' the baby' when the cause was something they didnt understand?
I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about their choices. Instead they need to know this BEFORE the birth, so they aren't left with their babies wondering, depressed or feeling guilty like many women do for their choices. If they were aware this could happen in the first place it can save alot of anguish, pain and wondering.
I strongly recommend getting a copy of The Business of Being Born, or reading any of the books BellyBelly recommends so you can get some facts and information about what you're getting into. By all means choose intervention if you need or want it. But at least understand what you're getting into and encouraging others to get into.
It's so good to read the experiences of so many people who have done similar research to me. I've been reading up on labour for many months now, probably for at least a year before I got pregnant.
When I announced my pregnancy I had a number of people (including men) say to me 'just go the epidural', and I found it infuriating. I'm not going to just do anything becuase you say I should. I think the key is to approach labour with an understanding of the various different stages, the pros and cons of different drugs, positions etc, and an understanding that it is a natural process which shouldn't always require doctors, drugs and instruments.
I had the gas and the peth for my first, I absolutely loved the gas even after it had stopped working it was like my security blanket, I wasn't too keen on the peth I didn't find it all that effective to be honest, and an epidural, that didn't even cross my mind and I don't think I could do it to be perfectly honest, my sister in law had and epi and she has been getting really strong back pains where they administered it to her and that was over 18 months ago.
Exactly TreeTops, we go through our whole pregnancies killing ourselves wondering if we should have that panadol for that terrible backpain, yet get to labour and its a smorgasboard - and we know drugs cross the placenta!!! Pethadine effected babies are given a shot of narcan (the same stuff they give to drug effected adults) to reverse any effects of the pethadine, which is more commonly seen when the peth has been given late in labour, prior to birth. Peth effected babies are born flat, don't attach properly, breastfeeding issues... because while drugs are in and out of our system in 4 hours, the half life for drugs in a baby's system is much longer, more like 12 hours...
One of the world leading experts into drugs and breastfeeding said there are two drugs women should absolutely avoid which are highly contraindicated for breastfeeding, one was pethadine and I forget the other brain freeze. LOL. I'll come back with it. These are narcotics! The effect they can have on women in labour too isn't nice afterwards, but you don't know it could happen... i.e. loss of memory, loss of clarity...
Not trying to bad all drugs here... but we are so misguided and I even saw a report on the news the other night that Australia is becoming (or is) one of the biggest pill pushing countries in the world!!! We have something we want to take something. It is no surprise that we have one of the highest (like top few) caesarean, induction and intervention rates in the world. And its not making experiences better. We are seeing more post natal depression, more post traumatic stress disorder, and an increase in complications and infections, especially ones which are extremely difficult to treat. We need to put that into perspective, expect we will hit a crisis of confidence in labour, appreciate that you wont get continuity of care in hospital which is CRUCIAL to better outcomes and look for prevention not 'wait and see' followed by emergency quick fix. Nothing wrong with having a well thought out plan in your birthing arsenal. You are not weak for needing a doula, more support, better education and information etc.
Pharmaceutical pain relief I have used - pethidine was horrible, made me very spaced out and unable to concentrate on the contractions. I totally lost control, and it didn't touch the pain. Gas and air was helpful for the peaks of transition contractions but again,the coaching on how to use it distracted me, and (in my experience) the nozzles are prone to malfunction, which is even more irritating and distracting.
Natural pain relief I have used - hot water on my back. Fantastic for back labour. Pressure on my back over the sacrum was also very helpful. Different positions - experimenting with lots of different positions was great to help things along and find the most comfortable way of labouring. I did lots of pelvic "dancing" with the last couple, circling my hips through contractions while leaning on dh. That felt amazing.
Visualisation was fantastic for me, and learning different ways of thinking. I would concentrate on what contractions felt like, such as thinking of 'stretching, burning, pushing, pressure', rather than 'pain'. Welcoming the contractions with positive noises like 'yeeeesssss' and 'open' and 'gooooood' really, really helped, rather than fighting them. Fear is a massive inhibitor of endorphins, the body's natural painkillers.
Best of luck!!
But at the same time, women who choose to have an epi are not weak either.:
I have found that in all of the pg books I have they are promoting not having any drugs whatsoever and really guilt you into it ("Oh, your baby wont be able to feed properly afterwards, you wont be able to push, you'll have to have intervention" etc etc). Just as it is dangerous "promoting" epi's etc, I think it is just as dangerous to rule them out all together. If a woman is made to feel like she has made a bad/wrong decision by having one then surely this can be just as traumatic as any other negative experience in birth.
I believe that whatever you find works best for you is the best option, and you shouldn't have to feel guilty about it. 3 of my girlfriends gave birth at around the same time as me, 2 had epi's and had no intervention, 1 had no pain relief and had no intervention. They all have their babies now and no regrets about their labour and their choices. Like I said (and many have) it's all about being informed beforehand- but don't let people scare or guilt you into thinking the decisions you make are "wrong".
Epidurals sounds quite risky and dangerous-i never realised it came with all these hidden effects, and its true everyone says to get the epi. i really hope to use only at the most gas and oxygen ? But hopefully try to avoid as much as possible. I never thought it would be possible to not use any kind of pain relief during labour-is it actually possible to rely on just breathing, hot water bottle on back or just gas? Wouldnt it hurt like hell downstairs if i was to tear-or do they numb the area? I asked my gp a while ago about epidurals and he said its absolutely fine-but i think he doesnt think that the risks are quite high now. hmmm..... its just sounds so amazing to give birth without any pain relief at all!! Im going to be giving birth at the cabrini hospital in malvern -anyone also?
Absolutely it's possible!! And it's not necessarily only for heroes and martyrs ;) And for me, I far prefer that over anything else! The pushing stage is powerful and, yes, the whole "ring of fire" thing is pretty challenging - but it can also be amazing and profound and those moments of the sensation of my babies sliding out of me are the most amazing of my life. I can't imagine being denied that feeling.:
Also, I don't know about other people, but that whole pushing stage was much less painful than the transition which preceded it. I know it isn't like that for everyone and i've been blessed with being left with an intact perineum three times out of five, and only minor tears the other two times... but some of that has come about because of my choices about how I wish to labour, also.
There's nothing wrong with making an *informed* decision to have an epidural, by the way, I don't believe that at all. There are risks with induction, and I've chosen two of those for "social" reasons. But you will feel most at peace, I believe, with whatever the outcome, if you are truly prepared for the implications of any decisions you make. Epidurals *do* come with risks - you need to decide what level of risk is acceptable to you, and what you have to gain or lose by making the decision.
If you practice and are prepared then breathing and hot water bottles etc are meant to be really really effective!! My mother used breathing alone (and a bit of a back rub from her then DH) and although it still hurt, she said she went into the pain and it wasn't all that bad. Apparently tearing doesn't hurt so much because everything is so stretched down there, or so I've been told by women who have torn.
I'll keep my :crossfingers: you get the birth you want!! :D
I had a epi and regreted it big time - the only reason being is cause i really wanted a drug free labour, but no one really supported me when the pain became too much, they all recommended the epi.
As for it completly taking the pain away - it didnt cause i asked for a very low dose of it, and if needed i would ask for it to be topped up.
I still felt every single contraction, and was still in pain, but the edge had been taken off it making it a bit more bearable and what i could handle!
As for any side affects, the epi had totally warn off when it came round to pushing and they wouldnt top it up, so i was able to push. And my recovery was pretty quick!
I felt like a failure in the end for having the epi and still gets me a bit down, even tho at the end of the day i did the pushing totally drug free.
I reccomend you do your research, and really think about if u want drugs or not!
And my biggest bit of advice - enjoy it! pain and all, its over so quick and the little bundle of joy you are left with afterwards is worth everything u go through!!!!
tutmae, I am not saying people are weak for choosing an epi or other pain relief at all. I think many people in the position to need one either have been induced or lack good support in labour, nothing to do with pain tolerance level. BellyBelly is here to educate and inform against the trend of everyone around us telling us to choose epis and caesareans. I feel like I need to share this info, who else is going to do it? Someone has to share the other side. What choice anyone makes from here, I have no concern for, they need to choose whats best for them. My concern is for women knowing there is a side they are not being told, and that they need to know both sides to make an informed decision and to have an empowered birth. The stats are not good, what's happening in birth is amongst the worst in the world, we can't just let it keep getting worse, because it is... so it's my little bit, my little purpose for my life. It will help some people and not all, even if it's one person I am happy.
Have a read of THIS story posted by a midwife Alan, about someone choosing to do what all her friends were telling her to do.... and the devistating catastrophe that happened as a result. All because her friends told her to.
For those who want a normal birth, THIS article will help where to get started.