At the end of my rope with night sleeps... please help me...

She hasn't slept through since before Christmas.

Oh, hang on, wait let me revise that... she has woke AT LEAST 2 times a night EVERY night since before Christmas.

Oh, hang on, let me correct that again... I have been woken AT LEAST 2 times a night EVERY SINGLE BLOODY NIGHT since BEFORE Christmas.

If she woke once, I would be absolutely 100% happy with that. Most nights I am ok with twice.

But FOUR times a night? FOUR TIMES. At 6 months? FOUR TIMES?!?!?!?!

*sigh* Sorry, ok I'll be calm now.

Ok... so the last two weeks it has been four times a night every night. Between early December and mid-January it was anywhere from 2-4 times a night, generally 2 or 3, with the odd 4 times. Now I'm lucky to get 2 hours of sleep at a time and I just can't do it anymore. Every time she wakes up I feel like screaming. I always look at the clock when she wakes for the second time, and pray its close to 4am, and its generally only midnight.

She wakes and cried until I either get her up or feed her. If I get her up she is happy to stay awake for the next two hours while I cry my eyes out (honestly...). If I feed her she will fall asleep for two hours until she cries again and the whole 'do I get her up or feed her' things starts again.

During the day she has 2, sometimes 3, sleeps a day. Her morning one, which is usually 2 hours. A lunchtime one, which is anywhere from 1-2 hours. And sometimes an afternoon one, which will usually be 1 hour max. She is on solids, eats 3 times a day (guts!) and has a bf usually every 3-4 hours.

She goes down for her sleeps easily, including the night time one. If she's still awake but tired when she's decided she's had enough booby then I give her a kiss, say "I love you, time for a sleep" shut the door and she'll whinge for a minute or two then go to sleep.

I just don't know what else to try... I've tried cutting out some solids, I thought she might have had a tummy ache but it makes no difference. I've tried encouraging that afternoon sleep, but whether she has it or not it makes absolutely no difference. I'm 99% sure its not wind or anything like that as I have gotten up and tried burping her, but she doesn't burp when I try, and she's pretty good at bringing her own wind up now anyway. I change her when she's wet. We co-sleep, and I've tried having her in the cot by herself. No difference. We are sidecarring now but that makes no difference as well. I've tried patting, rocking, bouncing, shhhhhhh-ing, and all the other variations...

A week ago Shel was encouraging me to wean, but then when I said "ok, I might get some more sleep if you can do a night feed on the weekend" she backflipped and won't let me now. She won't even let me supp. Which, of course is fine and lovely, and I know it probably won't help anyway except I'm at the end of my rope with this waking, I feel like I am a zombie, in tears most of the day, I am so tired but have never been able to sleep during the day and still can't despite how tired I am, I have too many things running through my head when I try, all i can think is of all the things I should be doing... studying, cleaning/tidying, things Shel has asked me to do for her...

Some nights I want to just let her cry a bit to settle herself. But I can't even do that as Shel gets angry with being woken up, and then the next day acts as though shes the most hard-done-by person in the world to have been woken up during the night. When she doesn't even have to ****ing do anything anyway. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! (sorry, sore spot).

It's really impacting our relationship as well, apart from me being so bloody tired that I am dead to the world by 8pm, even when I am awake all i do is snap at her, partly because I'm so tired, and partly because I'm angry that she gets to go to sleep and stay in bed all night whereas I am up and down getting Jazz up, trying to settle her without feeding her, then having to feed her. When I do end up having to feed her I just get so irritated with having her 'attached' to me. It's not the feeding but actually having to feed that is getting to me.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

There is a sleep school in Brisbane. Has anyone been? I can't find any info on it and my CHN isn't any help as she says "just persist in the patting/rocking/shhhh-ing". I don't think she likes the school? Or maybe there is just to much paperwork involved? :rolleyes:


And if you tell me that waking 4 times a night is normal at 6 months I'm going to jump through the computer and deck you.

Hun, my DS did this too and like you i tried everything, it didn't work. The only thing that DID work was time. I know thats not of any help to you, just wanted to let you know that you're not alone and it will pass.

I feel your pain :hug:

I recall when DS was about 5 months and no word of a lie I was sitting in the lounge room sobbing my heart out because he was still feeding 2-3 hours around the clock. It was torture and also affected my relationship with DH. I was up with him all the time and sometimes I felt like screaming at DH to wake up and even just sit with me.

Now, by the sounds of it you are doing/trying everything I did. I am so sorry I don't have a magic solution, the only thing that really helped us was the passage of time. It was like a lightbulb when off at 12 months and DS figured out how to sleep through. I had friends with kids sleeping through from 8 weeks and whenever they told me I felt like headbutting them. I don't think it is normal to be waking so often, but I also don't think it's abnormal. It is within the range of sleeping patterns.

I not sure about sleep schools, hopefully someone else will have some advice, but I just wanted to pop in and let you know you aren't alone.

I really hope it sorts out soon. Here's another :hug:

Spring x

Normal at 6 months, unfortunately yes :hide: Nina was an absolute shocker for this. She didn't sleep through the night until she was close to 8 months old. Up until then, she was waking 3-4 times a night. We tried everything! Solids, then no solids, day sleeps, no days sleeps, more breastfeeds, less breastfeeds, routine, no routine. The list goes on.
At 6 months they are going through a growth spurt, and she went through one at 4 months, which was a biggie.
I wish I could help you more, but I can't unfortunately. Like I said, I tried everything with Nina, and in the end I just had to live with it and wait.
I haven't heard anything about the sleep school in Brisbane. I hope you're able to find something on it.
:grouphug:

OMG 8 months? 12 Months... :crying: actually, I need a crying hysterically in the fetal position icon.

Leasha, I am so sorry to tell you, but Jack is 9 months and is still waking every two hours...and he has NEVER slept through! I have tried everything that you have tried but nothing makes a difference. I just dont know what to do either.:doh:

{{hugs}} for you, I know EXACTLY how you feel!

Come to think of it, I think I know what helped Nina sleep better. We moved her into a different bedroom at around 8 months, and that's when she started sleeping through. Dunno if it was a coincidence or not though. :dunno:
Can you do that at your place?

Hi Leasha :hug: i feel your pain
Not going to tell you its normal cos i dont feel like it should be normal at all.
At 6 months MJ's sleep went out the window and i was up at night sometimes every 45 mins, i too tried everything...
Our sleep school is only a day stay and when i had the option of going settling to sleep wasnt a problem and thats what they worked on mainly, but it is now and i wish i had gone. :(

If you can get in i would say GO! i wish i had, we are starting to come out the other side of it now, she is only waking once at night and going back to sleep easily again now, but sometimes we have a bad night and i feel hopeless again.

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I am so tired but have never been able to sleep during the day and still can't despite how tired I am, I have too many things running through my head when I try, all i can think is of all the things I should be doing... studying, cleaning/tidying, things Shel has asked me to do for her...

It's really impacting our relationship as well, apart from me being so bloody tired that I am dead to the world by 8pm, even when I am awake all i do is snap at her, partly because I'm so tired, and partly because I'm angry that she gets to go to sleep and stay in bed all night whereas I am up and down getting Jazz up, trying to settle her without feeding her, then having to feed her. When I do end up having to feed her I just get so irritated with having her 'attached' to me. It's not the feeding but actually having to feed that is getting to me.

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I hear you on not being able to sleep during the day - i never have had a day slep, even just after was born (oh maybe day 2 or something but never at home)

Our relationship has gone downhill two, its so frustrating when you are the only one that can/will settle your child (DH is rarely home before she goes to bed) last week i cracked and said some very very nasty things and DH came home early last night to put her to bed - problem is, she is use to me putting her to bed that she gets all worked up so i had to do it anyway.

I told DH that he has to get up for one full night with her on the weekends (no BF overnight anymore - that stopped about a month ago, mainly cos i stopped offering and she didnt look for it) and he has reluctantly agreed.
Yes he is very tired from work, but i told him that MJ is his child too and if he doesnt play a part in her upbringing, there is no point him being around.... didnt go down well at all, but there you go it took 5 days for it to sink in and him to come home eraly one night... can you express to make this an option for both you and Shell so she can do one night a week?

I have no miricle answer (its been going on 5 mths here two:wall:) but i cant say that i wish i had gone to a Sleep school when i had the chance as it has got worse here... and she probably has got use to the bad sleeping patterns

Trillian told me on one of my threads about a lack of sleep, that high GI foods can make it worse at night, i cut out food at night and that didnt work, but i avoid things like potato or high GI fruit before bed and feed her solids 1.5-2 hrs before bed... that worked for us, MJ is a guts, she eats loads and when she got her meals amounts right it was a bit better.

Sorry i dont think i have been all that helpful, but wanted to let you know that you are not alone, on many of the things that you have mentioned :hug:

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Come to think of it, I think I know what helped Nina sleep better. We moved her into a different bedroom at around 8 months, and that's when she started sleeping through. Dunno if it was a coincidence or not though. :dunno:
Can you do that at your place?

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Maybe give that a try Leasha. I moved Jack into his own room at 6 months but it hasnt made any difference. No better....no worse. But anything is worth a try, you never know it could work for you.
Just remember, when you are sitting there in tears in the middle of the night...there are plenty of us doing the exact same thing, you are not alone. {{hugs}}

Hi Leasha,

Another one here to join you, spring angel and sammiejane!
DD began to wake more often at about 6 months although at its worst she was waking up to every HALF HOUR!!!!!!!! I tried so many things, lots of things which were suggested here. I remained as calm as I could based on the advice that 'this too shall pass', however when 5 months later things were still bad... yes 5 months... and I was quite literally loosing it (I hear you) I honestly felt I cannot make it through the next night let alone wait till it passes.
I ended up at a sleep school, a day stay program. The advice and support was a godsend, I didn't feel that I had to give up on my gentle parenting approach and what we came away with made our home a much much happier one. (The relationship between DH and I was really suffering also as I needed help and support and he just didn't get it. Plus, the stress of sleeplessness really does cause friction in the household)

:

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I told DH that he has to get up for one full night with her on the weekends (no BF overnight anymore - that stopped about a month ago, mainly cos i stopped offering and she didnt look for it) and he has reluctantly agreed.
Yes he is very tired from work, but i told him that MJ is his child too and if he doesnt play a part in her upbringing, there is no point him being around....

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You go girl!!! I really think that is such a necessary thing to do! I am very impressed. I was never able to get my DH to understand this one and it caused so much tension between us. Although DH was not really supportive at home and at night, I made him come to the sleep school with me so I felt we were working together in a united effort and it was a godsend. He learned what I learned and understood much more about what I was going though.

So I guess what my advice is consider that sleep school is not for everyone, but you should try to do what ever you can to get help and support when you are feeling so frustrated and out of control with sleep issues. I left it way to long hoping that something would give and if I had my time again, I would have been much more proactive much earlier.

ATB!

Leash I can't offer anything except lots of :hug:s

Hi

you say you have been co-sleeping etc - is there a chance that when she is waking you are not able to give her a chance to self settle back to sleep - because of worried about Shel waking etc - perhaps if you did try another room you wouldn't hear the grizzles as much and might get more sleep - might take her half an hour to work up to a cry OR she might just go back to sleep???

Just a suggestion - I dont wanna be bombarded from cosleepers please.

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you say you have been co-sleeping etc - is there a chance that when she is waking you are not able to give her a chance to self settle back to sleep - because of worried about Shel waking etc - perhaps if you did try another room you wouldn't hear the grizzles as much and might get more sleep - might take her half an hour to work up to a cry OR she might just go back to sleep???

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Yessss Yessss Yesss!

Thanks for reminding me Sami H!! This was exactly what was behind my DD's sleep issues in the end... breast attachment and breast association with sleeping as a result of co-sleeping. I loved cosleeping and it worked a treat for us up to the 6 month mark. I highly recommend it and will do it for any (Hopeful) subsequent pregnancies.

I found that at 6-11 months DD needed to learn how to resettle back to sleep without a breast in her mouth and the close proximity to me was making this really tricky.

Once we established her new bed in another room and with the help of the sleep school support we were off and racing (or sleeping!) Straight through 7-7 within a week.

No barrage of abuse Sami, Kudos for throwing it out there!! Although some babies happily co-sleep through this stage... for some it is just not the answer.

Comforted sleeping does not have to mean co-sleeping, as some of the others have said. It just means not going down the controlled crying, etc, path. I don't know if sleep school would help, I would ask your CHN why she doesn't like it. If they practice controlled crying, it's not going to help you or Jazz, Leasha.

I don't know what will help her sleep better at night, but I think you should definitely be napping more during the day! If Shel doesn't like being woken at night, or having a crabby partner, then perhaps she wouldn't mind a less-than-perfectly-tidy house instead? When Jazz is having a nap in the afternoon, go to sleep yourself. Treat yourself the way you did when she was a newborn (and waking just as frequently). If you get more rest and aren't at the end of your rope, maybe you will come up with a solution to Jazz's wakefulness yourself. Or maybe you'll just get through it without losing your mind. ;)

Leash - sending you hugs. The sleep school is at the PA hospital (from memory), a girlfriend took her then 12 month old there - she wishes she had found out about the school prior to that point (he was walking every 30 mins).

I can't really offer any suggestions as I too have a house of non sleepers! My DS was 17months when he slept through and we have just this week (Friday night) started DD on a no overnight feed regime -and she is almost 15months old!
It's tough and I don't have the answer or I would have used it with DD. I've been to sleep school with DS and had a sleep consultant come to the house so I know what supposedly "works" but still no success with DD.
There is 20 months between my 2 so I've had 3 months of sleep in almost 3 years so I hear ya....

I suppose you are doing the sleep routine stuff - same dinner time, same bath time, quiet play, feed and then bed? The only thing that kind of works here is sleep "cues", ie, we sing the same song before night bed time each night, we say the same thing - Mummy/Daddy loves you, time for sleep". They do learn to associate the cue with sleep, but like you my bubs had no trouble going to sleep the issue is staying alseep.
Hang in there, it's damn hard but know that eventually it will stop and Jazz will sleep.

Hi Leasha, I don't know if you're still interested in sleep schools but here's the little that I know. There is one somewhere in the northside that does stays of a few days and there is also another one just outside Ipswich or maybe Beenleigh. Now one of them is supposed to be very good with regards to the whole gentle parenting approach to sleeping, ie no CC, but I'm not sure which one it is! Sorry. :doh: Though I do think it is the northside one which would be more convenient for you anyway. Man, I don't think I'm being much help here. There is also a sleep clinic at the Mater children's hospital but I think it is for children with actual physical sleep problems. It's worthwhile talking to your GP about it if you CHN won't do anything, I know my sister talked to one when she was going through a similar stage as you and they asked for a referral from a GP anyway.

DS woke up to 4 times a night up untill 12 mths ! we just heated up a bottle and he went back to sleep !!! its not "the right thing " to do but it worked for us and he slept a bit better , i found we was always hungry and a comfort thing ..

DD wakes 2 or 3 times a night for a feed !!

i went to the sleep school and to be honest its all about controlled comforting there , so the nurse was just saving you the trip and it was the most boring week in my life !!!

a lovely BB lady told me the name of a website and it worked well , google "sleep and settle" dcdau and give that a go maybe ...

it suck being woken , i am a zombie today DD woke at 10:50 pm and every 3 hrly , usunally she wakes about 2 am ... and then is up and down till when ever she decides to really sleep ..

i had to return to wrapping her .. over the last few days its been a big improvement !!

:hugs:

try find a mummy that isnt tired .. comes with the territory :rolleyes:

I would seek out a sleep school hon. They will teach you about sleep patterns and explain when to night and when to encourage self settling. Do you have the child health line number? I am not sure if I can post it but I will pm it to you. If not it is in the contacts of your red book you would have been given when bub was born.

DD2 was a constant night waker and she did not sleep through till 9months old, but by 6 months we started teaching her to self settle. However at 9 months her waking was only for a feed and then straight back to sleep. Yes I we did let her cry for a bit (not long and not until she was screaming). I stopped talking to her and just kept going back into the room to put her down. I did not put the light on and I did not make eye contact. Actually this worked best when DH did it...So I would tell your partner that her part of parenting is much needed at this time and you need her help...Just because she doesn't feed doesn't mean she can't parent iykwim.

HTH's you....btw this process worked for within a week.

my sister was in a simular situation when her daughter was younger & she went to the Riverton family centre (now called Ellen Barron Family Centre) im pretty sure its in chermside or near there but it maybe worth a try :)

How are things going Leasha? I only just saw this post and skimmed over it, so apologies if I repeat something already said.

We have only in the last week or so, started to sleep for apprix 3 hours stretches at a time! I felt like we tried everything too.
I have had the Riverton Sleep school suggested to me, which babi gurl has already told you they are now called, the Ellen Barron Family Centre. I did a search on here for the Riverton sleep school and wasn't too fussed with what I read. I think it may be controlled crying? So neither DH or I are too eager to get our butts down there.

I have started to use our sleep sheep again (it had flat batteries and a tired mummy keeps forgetting to buy some when at the shops lol) and am finding that DS is getting a little easier to put down if it is switched on.

Can't offer any more advice really..sorry. DH and I keep telling ourselves that it will get better..pity we didn't know when that would actually be happening hey!
Also, what has saved me heaps of times, is DH sitting up with DS when he flat out refuses to go to sleep. My DH gets up at 4am for work, and gets home at 7pm. When he jumps in the shower, most times he will take DS with him as well. If dinner is running behind, he might help out with that, and one night he even stayed up till 11pm to clean the kitchen for me...So, Shell can help out. especially when you are so frazzled by everything. I find it hard to switch off when DS sleeps, I'm always wondering if there is something I'm not doing right or can I do it better or differently...then I get an hours sleep and he is awake lol!
:hug: hope things are improving since you posted

Nic

oh hugs Leasha! Ash is the same... 4, 5 or 6 times a night... sigh... I hope the end is near for us!

Just a reminder to everyone, that this is in a Comforted sleeping NO-CRY sleep solutions section. Any advice that suggests using techniques (or going to sleep schools that recommend techniques) that go against this philosophy by allowing your baby to cry are not appropriate in this thread.

OOpes sorry!! But Leasha did ask about sleep schools in Brisbane

Thanks everyone, somehow I managed to lose this thread.

I didn't realise that the sleep school was controlled crying, defiantely not interested in that!!!!!

Our sleep is still going nowhere fast, but no I'm not willing to try controlled crying and TBH I'm not ready to move her to her own room either. I am trying to pat her back to sleep but most nights it won't work so I don't really know what else to do apart from ride it out.

:hug: Thanks everyone xxx

Non sleepers here too. DS didn't sleep through until well after 2 yrs old. Kayla still wakes around 4 times between 7 & 7. She actually often gets up again in the evening to play.. it's either this or she wakes at 3am and can't sleep again.

Are you sure she isn't teething or something? I've found the discomfort of teething has woken Kayla up more frequently than usual, but I never know until after the fact, coz I suddenly see the teeth cutting, but she hasn't been upset by it in any other way, just disturbed sleep. She has other signs such as dribbling & chewing, but she doesn't show discomfort, just doesn't give me any sleep! Oh, she is a bit harder to settle and screams sometimes trying to get her to sleep, but I still don't "get" it until the teeth show. :doh:

*hugs* Do try to catch up on some sleep. Even just one nap can energise you to cope with the night waking much better.

Hi Liz,
I'm pretty sure at least some of it is teething, which doesn't make it easier but I am a little more patient with her and I try to remember that she'd probably rather be sleeping as well.
xxx

I feel for you !
We used to live on the Sunshine Coast and i had a terrible time with DS#2
I have just looked in the back of his health record book - Riverton in Brisbane may be able to help- 24hrs - (07) 38622333 (current?)

Good luck - sorry, wish i could do more to help !

:hug:

OOOOOOPPPPSSSSS !!!!!!!

Sorry - didnt realise we werent to suggest those sort of things !

Sorry again !

Leasha, Does Jaz like noise? WIth DS, we found that he needs some background noise when he sleeps. He has his air con on at night time, but we started using the sleep sheep again and it is (most nights) helping him settle a bit easier.
It is a toy sheep, and it has 4 sounds, a heartbeat, the ocean (sounds like waves rolling in) rain and our favourite, whales.
I searched on the net till I found the best priced one. I got it from "Baby's got Style" for $49.95, they have a smaller version for $10 less, but it has one sound that is different. It has a velcro strap so you can strap it to the outside of their cot or pram if you want to take it out and about.
We ended up buying one after seeing it on the channel 9 Extra show on in the arvo's. It has a timer with it as well, so you can switch it to run for 20 something minutes or 40 mintues then it turns itself off.
The unit that contains the batteries and sound can also be pulled out if you want to hide it somewhere, like under a pillow or mattress.
Anyway, don't want to sound like I'm harping on about it. It's just nice for us to have something that will help us to comfort him after how long we wrestle with him most nights!

Nic

Hows this? I read your original post and thought: How lucky, she slept through up till Christmas..
DS got worse from around 6 months too. The really bad times lasted about 6 weeks. Then we started co-sleeping and things got better. Had a couple of good weeks... and then he started teething. Mostly I'm just trying to ride it out - it's gotta get better.
Are you feeling quite resentful toward Shel about this...? Cause I probably would be in your situation. I could punch my DH sometimes when he tells me about how tired he is... But it's my problem really cause I don't let him get up for DS anymore cause DS just wants boobies and they'd both be up for hours whereas I can get him back to sleep quickly. Am now mentally preparing myself for night weaning once he's 12 months... maybe...
Really do hope she settles down for you...