"Has your milk come in??"

Hi all

DD is now 6 days old and has been b/f well since birth. She attaches correctly (most of the time, I correct her when she's not right) and settles well after most feeds.

The question I've now been getting incessantly is "Has your milk come in yet??"

Does everyone get that "VOOOM" feeling with the rock hard breasts etc when the milk comes in??? Is it always that noticable?

Could my milk have come in without me noticing any massive difference? My breasts feel fuller, heavier and somewhat firmer but nowhere near what I was expecting.

DD is doing the standard quick suck suck suck, then long suck, suck, suck. Recently (last night) I noticed when she detaches herself she had white, milky fluid stuff running down her face (milk?), and white milky stuff coming out of my nipple. It is definitely different to the colostrum that I saw in the first few days.

Is that my milk?

DD is also having lots of wet nappies, so she's getting something!

So confused...

Everyone used to ask me as well, and I'd say "um, I think so", and then they'd laugh and say "ok, so thats a no"... I never understood it... until my milk came in LOL. For me I went up 2 cup sizes, seriously, I actually remember laughing hysterically in the mirror at the size difference (my milk coming in didn't hurt like I thought... or compared to the c/s I didn't notice it as much). I also leaked something shocking. As in, moving my arms would make my boobs leak!!!!!!!!

I had milk before I had the rockmelon boobies (lol) which is why I thought my milk had come in, but it hadn't. It came in around day 5-7 I think. It was later than I expected, but I didn't worry too much as Jazz was settled, she fed well and seemed full so I never really worried about if she was getting too much (that and she gained weight like a trooper so there was never any reason to worry).

Hopefully if your milk hasn't come in yet it won't hurt, and maybe you are one of the few who don't have a big change in size, and you're milk has come through.

Maybe it's partly in?...With my last baby I could feel my milk slowly coming in (breasts getting fuller and fuller, harder, more powerfull let down sensation etc) over about a 24 hour period, then after that, one morning I knew it was in because I really was bursting!

Sounds like your bubby is getting enough though- great job :)

Let us know how you go..

sounds like your milk is in darl! :)
It wasnt a big painful thing for me either time, and my milk was always in on day2.
congrats on your bub too!!

Thanks ladies :D

Everyone has such different experiences... its so hard to sort through all the info...

The ABA say demand feed, which I am trying to do, which ends up with me feeding every hour to two hours at night and late afternoon. But then the MCHN who rang me yesterday to book our first meeting says I should space the feeds out to two hourly once my milk comes in.

:dunno:

Definitely sounds like you have milk. The VOOM sensation is actually engorgement, which not everyone gets, but it can appear at any time when you have more milk than baby is drinking.

I'd say relax, it sounds like your body is working to perfection! As for me, I had sweats, leaking and my boobs went from a size C to a size E!!!!!!! Ouch! I had to use cold washers to ease the pain.

I know its hard, but don't worry...if your baby is happy and has wet nappies etc, its sounds like everything is perfect. Well done!

Sounds like your milk could be in to me too. With DS2 it just kind of happened, there was no moment where my BB's when rock-hard, I just noticed that he had milk spilling out the side of his mouth.

Can you hand express a little bit to see it it's white like milk?

ETA - As for feeding 2 hourly once your milk comes in, I haven't heard of that! I would feed DS#2 2 1/2 - 3 hourly throughout the day (unless he was hungry earlier) and he breastfed fantastically!

Feeding on demand is recommended from birth. This helps your supply establish in the early days and weeks, and then ensures that your supply remains at the correct level after that. It sounds to me like you are doing everything right. I would say you have your milk - you lucky thing not having the engorgement! The night feeding will settle - is she feeding that often in the morning as well? What will happen over the next few days/weeks is that she will feed often during the day, and then go for a longer period overnight - maybe 3 or 4 hours. Then after a while the feeding will get a little less frequent and she will go even longer overnight. So don't worry about being up so often in the night forever!

Not everyone gets engorged when their milk comes in - sounds like your baby has a good latch and is feeding really well.

I wouldn't restrict feeding to two hourly at this stage - just let your baby have the breast as often as she likes for as long as she likes in these early days, and that will help encourage your breasts to produce exactly what she needs. Keep up the good work!!

I'm not too worried - yet! - about being up all night. She settles well (generally) after each feed and I can grab an hour or so of sleep, then do it all again. Its not too difficult too manage yet.

The pattern I have noticed so far is a period of frequent feeding between about 11pm and 6am and then after the feed at 6 or 7am she sleeps for a good three hours or so. Then she wakes and feeds and has another good sleep (still sleeping as I write and she has been down since about 11.30am) and then feeds about every 2 hrs through the day.

Should I stretch it out a bit further?

I'm also trying to do what the ABA counsellor suggested yesterday - lots of stimulation during the day, bright lights and talking and eye contact when she's awake and then keeping it all low key and calm at night time.

OP, She is doing exactly hat babies her age do. As for the MCHN, I doubt she would be a LC and probably is one of the ones that drums routine into everyone.

Bub is still learning the difference between night and day, so just go with the flow and she will soon switch. Rest as much as you can during the day so that you have the energy to go with her at night.

I didn't get engorged this time around either, like Trish I just noticed Milk over flowing as she tried to keep up with my supply, so there was def heaps of milk there but I wasn't feeling full.
I still don't get that full feeling unless she sleeps through the night and I wake up bursting, through the day I don't get the "full" feeling at all.

It can take wee ones a while to figure out that day time is for waking, nighttime is for sleeping :)

My favourite tactics for helping them get the message are:

Dress them for day during the day, pyjamas at night!

Keep daytime feeds full of interaction, playing, lively as possible.

Don't particularly quieten down during the day, or darken baby's room.

I wouldn't stretch out the daytime feeds at all, I'd feed as frequently during the day as I could to encourage less "reverse cycling" (where a baby will suckle all night to make up for limited suckling during the day - this is common for breastfeeding mothers who are out at work away from the baby all day.)

Do what you want to do when you want to do it - if you want to go out but the baby's asleep, wake her up and go out.

Let the baby cluster feed as much as she wants during the evening - I'm sure they do this to fill their bellies up before bedtime.

Have a good, regular and calming evening routine, and decide what time is bed time - after that time, don't play, and keep interaction to a minimum. Keep feeds quiet, don't play, use nightlights instead of room lights, and try to feed in a sleepy environment, in the room where you want them to sleep (be that in your bed, their room, whatever). Also, unless she's poohed, don't change her nappy in the middle of the night - if she were sleeping through you wouldn't wake her to feed her.

While I won't pretend any of my kids have been good sleepers, these things have helped me curb the "oh, it's 2am, time to play!" phenomenon ;)

I never got the rock-hard feeling either - and DS was putting on 300-500g per week - so he weas definitely getting enough milk! It sounds like your milk is in too! Enjoy not having to go through the pain of engorgment! :)

Once again, I reckon toomany has given you some sterling advice, OP. I would definitely go with your instincts and the advice of the ABA rather than your MCHN.
I think at around 6 weeks old I found that circadian rhythm thing kicked in for DD and she slept for a good period overnight. She was confused between day and night for the first 2 weeks or so. After that, she gradually slept for a longer period at night (between 3-5 hours) and woke more frequently during the day. Your bubs will work it out :)
Sounds like you have plenty of milk, and if it is the advice of your MCHN that's causing the confusion about whether or not your milk has "come in", just don't worry about it! I'd be ignoring that advice, myself - it kind of goes against what people who are interested in making bfeeding work advise.
Congratulations on doing so well! You sound like you are going great guns! :)

OP
you are doing a great job!
WELL DONE

Bubs is putting on weight, has heaps of wet nappies and getting plenty of feeds and love! So everything you are doing is great! With my twins i didnt feel when my milk came in but this time around i did as my boobs got the familar full feeling- so everyone is difference. The volume you are making and the fact that milk was seen, means that it has come in!

Even though your milk may be in, bubs may be feeding more frequently to try and build up your supply to its required level. It takes a few days of sucking to bring it up in volume. Once your milk settles down, then she should feed less frequently and more efficiently. Only now we are spreading out to 3-4 hourly- but still cluster feeding once a day !

take what the MCH nurse says with a grain of salt- and do what works for you!
keep going hon

With my first DS my milk didn't come in until day 7 but we had feeding issues. it was a big Voom requiring many showers and cabbage leaves.

With DD I was much the same as you, waiting for the big bang and it never came. Someone told me you can tell when your milk is in by the colour of their poop. If it is that runny mustard then milk is in.

OP hun your welcome to some of my engorgment!!! :lol: im huge all the time, i have to constantly expresss some off foe comfort!! mine came in day 3/4

LOL AJP - you can keep it thanks :D

Thanks for all the comments and support girls. Yesterday arvo and evening I tried expressing with my sister's pump, after I had fed DD, and only got a tiny amount both times. Decided this means my milk probably hasn't come in yet, not completely.

Toomany thanks for those great tips. I'm going to try and work on the nighttime routine - we're trying Daddy-daughter time at bath time followed by feed and bed.

I hadn't thought about changing at night waking her up! Here's a stupid first time mum question - how can I tell if she has a pooey nappy without undressing?? Will it smell through the clothes and nappy??? I'm still learning... :redface:

I've got my first MCHN appt tomorrow, she will weigh her then so I'll be able to be sure she is putting on weight.

Her poos have changed to a dark yellowy-orange colour with grainy stuff in them. Are these the breast milk poos??

The pump gives you absolutely no indication of how much milk you've got, babe. Particularly late in the day. Your boobies can tell the difference between baby and plastic ;)
While you are feeding her, you can have a peek inside the nappy (just flip it out a bit from her leg with your finger... But don't stick your finger in too far, LMAO!) and see if its pooey, if you can't smell it. I found that DD had pooey nappies most of the time, so for us it helped to change the nappy between boobs (sometimes she really wasn't a fan of this, but it meant that it was easier to settle her after the second boob).
I'm not sure that it's easy to tell from poo colour whether your milk's come in yet. Poo can be lots of colours. But if she's pooing a lot, then I'd say it is in and she's getting plenty :)
Keep up the fabulous work, mate!

OP

mustardy water poos is usually B/milk poos!

i have the same trouble telling if levi has pooped or not so i during the day i feed one side, then change his bum regardless, and then offer the other side. Overnite I change his bum before i feed him as he usually on does one side overnite before he goes back to sleep. I also re-wrap him after i have changed his bum overnite so i can put him straight back into his cot after he has fed and nod off by himself as he is such a sleepy state!

I wouldnt worry about not getting much when you express esp after a feed- means Isobel is getting her feeds worth. Bub gets heaps more off you, than you will get expressing.

mwah and keep going- you are doing great!
odette

From what you have said it does sound like you milk has come in. You could just have a very efficient feeder and your breast have adjusted quite well. Not becoming engorged and plenty of wet nappies is generally a good sign of both these things! Not all women become engorged - sounds like you are one of the lucky ones :)
Edited to add that I agree with above about the pump not being a good indication of supply. Often the let down reflex doesn't work as well when using a pump, a baby's sucking technique is far more efficient at removing milk. Keep up the good work!!

As Snacks said hun, the amount of milk you express will tell you absolutely nothing about your supply. Is there a reason why you want to express already? Usually it's best to wait for a few weeks until everything's settled down before you add that complication into things.

It sounds like everything is going very well hun. Good work! Don't worry, it does get easier as you go.

Thanks again girls...

MR, DH wants to be able to help a bit if he can and give her some EBM to help settle her at night. I was also curious to see how much I'd get... but I get what you are all saying about a pump not being as efficient as a baby on the breast.

Starting to get a bit despondent though... I know she is getting lots of wet and pooey nappies, she settles well most of the time, but I just don't think my milk has come in yet. DD still takes up to 20 mins each side, but then last night she was doing the 5 minute sucks and pulling off again and showing no interest in reattaching.

Then today she is getting a bit fussy at the breast - she takes a few goes to attach and sometimes attaches incorrectly, then when I correct it she cries and gets upset while I'm trying to fix it.

She also gets confused by her hands and tries to suck on them instead of my nipple. I don't want to wrap her as I know it is important for her little hands to stroke the breast but she gets frustrated sucking them and not me. How can I keep her hands away?

Sigh.

Oh and this is Day 8 :(

Ok - not sure about the hands (it has been a while for me!)... Maybe you could wrap her to attach (as long as she's happy about it) and then loosen the wrap once she's sucking?
How often is she feeding atm, OP?
When she's feeding well, can you hear her swallowing?
They can be impatient little creatures, can't they? I remember Natty getting terribly cross with me when I tried to correct her attachment. (And when I changed her nappy before she wanted me to, LOL.) The best thing to do is just see that as impatience and try not to let it stress you out too much. I know it is easier said than done. (But you get better at dealing with your offspring's impatience ;) I am pretty good at it these days, LOL.) The important thing is for you to be as calm as you can, and she will get it even if she gets a bit cranky first.
Hang in there - you are doing so fabulously well.

Thanks Amy, appreciate your response.

She's feeding at different intervals at the moment... yesterday evening/night it was every hour and a half or so until she settled to sleep at about 11pm, then she slept til about 2.30am, then again til 5am, then today she has fed about every 2 hours. Except for right now which has been about 3 hours.

I know its early days and she won't really have a routine at this point... or even set feeding patterns... but I am just getting worried I'm not providing for her!

I'm feeding her when she wants... I'm sure she's fine...

ETA - yes I can hear definite noises when she sucks...

OP it definatly sounds like your milk is in

meconium is thick black and sticky

transition stools as your milk comes in are light green/brown colour

breastmilk stool yellow in colour and quiet liquid with some pale seed like solids

ocean princess - you need to take adeep breath and give yourself a pat on the back. yu are doing a wonderful job at BF, your milk sounds like it is well and truely in and your baby is getting enough. Relax and enjoy this newborn time. For the first 6wks all they want to do is eat and sleep, get a magazine, lots of water and just feed her all day long if you need too - everything else can wait. She will stretch her feeds out eventually when she is ready and before you know it she'll be weaning like my little girl and you'll be wondering where the time has gone :-)

If you want her to go longer between feeds try increasing your hindmilk by feeding off the same breast in a row for exampple if she takes one side at a time do right side then at the next feed right side again before offering left. Then left side, left side again beforing ofering right. Try to increase the amount of time she spends at one breaset before offering the other which will increase her access to the rich fatty hind milk.

Can you feel your let down? Is this the time she is often on and off the breast? It could be that your let down is too fast or too slow - either way she will get used to it. If your letdown is coming in too fast you can pull her off and put a cloth over your boob to catch the fast letdown then put her back on - my DD used to hate me doing this so I would leave her on and she learnt to deal with it herself - often putting her tongue up to stop the flow.

If she isn't interested in reattaching than don't worry, she may be sucking for comfort if she has wind pain or colic

As for her hands, it's OK to wrap and yes babies get frustrated when you reattactch them but that's much better than having cracked nipples.

As for expressing, try in the morning when you are full. Remember to relax and try thinking happy baby thought to get your letdown happening. if using a handpump try to imitate her sucking doing fast pumps then switching to slower rythmic pumps. If she is having issues at the breast I probably wouldn't introduce a bottle maybe try cup feeding her instead?

Remember you are doing an awesome job, this is the hardest time and IT WILL get easier I promise you!

Looks like I may have been worrying over nothing... the MCHN came today and my little champ is now weighing 3.85kg, which is 100g over her birth weight :D

She has put on 285g in 5 days, which the nurse said could not have happened if my milk has not come in.

So yay! :cheer:

I will stop stressing now... maybe ;)

Saram, everyone, thanks for your help.

awesome news OP!!!!!
miss M sounds very much like isobel!!!! very similar weight gains!

That's great news OP. You are doing a fantastic job, try not to worry. The feeding will settle down and you will start to feel more confident with it all soon :hug:

I understand about wanting your DH to help. It is really great for dad's to bond with the babies early. But expressing so early can interrupt your supply settling, and can cause you extra stress at this stage (which are already discovering I think). You will also find that you will probably feel really uncomfortable (being full) at the moment if your DD drinks EBM for a feed instead of bfing. In a few weeks this is something you can try if you are feeling ready for it, but for now you might be better off if your DH spends time doing other things with your DD - often baths are a great thing for dads to do, and he can also do the nappy change and bring bub to you at feed time. Something to think about anyway.

Keep up the great work hun.

WELL DONE - Isabel- great weight gains

OP's new mantra- My body is providing exaclty what my baby needs!!!!

The extra feeding is Isabel building up your supply to meet her needs. She is getting bigger so hence needs more milk.

Keep going and dont doubt yourself- you are doing everything right! Just have faith in you and your bubs!

Great stuff, OP! Was just going to say that 2-hourly is really good - you can reassure yourself that way that she's not sleeping too long and letting your supply drop off IYKWIM?
Brilliant stuff about the weight gain! Congratulations to you both.
and LOL @ stopping stressing! Do we ever? ;) But you should be so very proud of yourself and your little girl :)

OP, as others have said, the pump will give you absolutely no idea whatsoever. It seems the only sign that makes you think your milk isn't "in" is that you aren't engorged, when in fact this may simply be a sign that your baby has a terrific latch and is emptying your breasts really, really well.

And I know it's tempting to want some sleep overnight, but honestly, the best thing for milk production is to put the baby to the breast whenever she wants to suck. Nighttime feeding is a very productive time for making milk - the more hours you go without putting the baby to the breast, the more likely it is that your supply will drop.

In these early days it really is probably best to simply feed, feed, feed, and then sleep when your baby is sleeping, whatever time of day it is and whatever else it is you think you have to do - your dh can help by making sure he keeps on top of the housework instead, perhaps!!

:

---

Looks like I may have been worrying over nothing... the MCHN came today and my little champ is now weighing 3.85kg, which is 100g over her birth weight :D

She has put on 285g in 5 days, which the nurse said could not have happened if my milk has not come in.

So yay! :cheer:

I will stop stressing now... maybe ;)

Saram, everyone, thanks for your help.

---

Oh i didn't see this! Well done - see,you need to trust your body :) It produced this gorgeous girl, and now it's producing gorgeous milk for her :)

Mine weren't hard and uncomfortable either but there was definately milk there lol Ashtons wet nappies and weight gain were proof of that :)