DH says it doesn't count.

Recently we went through a natural cycle frozen blastocycst embryo transfer. Being IVF it was a big deal as we can't just TTC every cycle as normal people do, we have to wait months and spend lots of dollars for just one cycle... anyhow...

I have no patience whatsoever and of course I POAS! Transfer was the 11th feb and my blood test was due on the 21st. On the 19th I got a positive HPT. It was faint but it was still 3/4days before AF was due. However the following day I got a -ve on a HPT. I had been having pg symptoms since around 3days post transfer with LOTS of implantation cramping and nausea plus tingly boobs. I still had these symptoms the day I went for the blood test but the cramping had faded by the following morning that the results were due in. They indicated that one embryo had 'taken' but that it had failed (as it was faulty apparently) and my levels were already really low (only 9 already). AF arrived late on 22nd and was only 1day late. The nausea and tingly boobs ended around that time.

DH told me most emphatically that he didnt think it counted as a miscarriage when I asked him. He really hurt my feelings and made me think I was making a bigger deal about it than I should. His reasoning is that isnt every embryo a baby when we have it transferred and what is the difference here? My thinking is that this one was an actual pregnancy (however short) and that I FELT pregnant for over a week even thought it never got to the stage of heartbeat.

I guess it was just a chemical pregnancy not a miscarriage? Is that what it would be classified as? I just need to be able to categorize it for myself really. I dont want to offend people here who see my sig and they have had a "proper" miscarriage. KWIM???

AH Im rambling. I am just a bit confused (not to mention devestated of course)

Thanks people.

So sorry to hear of your recent loss. :hug:

I think there is some technicality about the terms, (infact BG can probably help out there) but I call it an early miscarriage. Chemical pregnancy sounds so clinical... And for me, it is not. Your little embryo had started to grow, and implant, and for some reason it did not continue to grow. That, in my books, is a loss as real as any other. I have had 4, and each one hurt and I grieved for the babies I might have had. I call them my tiny angels.

Allow yourself the time to be sad and then to heal. FWIW, my DH doesnt take them as hard as I do either. :hug: xo

I am not sure when it technically is classed a miscarriage. Nevertheless, it's a loss and it's real...and I am sorry. All losses are tough. I hope you are doing OK. Men and women handle these thing often very differently, which can also be hard to handle.

Thanks so much for your replies. It really means a lot to me when I know you two have had such hardships of your own.


I don't know whether to tell friends or family about it? We dont tend to tell ppl when we are TTc and doing IVF as it is so private but this feels different.

I share on here, and my family, and few close friends know. But I don't tend to make it a big deal unless I am talking to someone, and it comes up. But that is me. I am a VERY private person. If sharing will help you heal, then go for it. But perhaps be prepared for some people not to understand it, and how hard it is.

Oh Sazz, it doesn't matter what the rules are for categorising your little emby. What you feel is what counts. Your heart was so happy for a few days, and a little :angel: in your sig is your way of acknowledging your loss, no matter when it was.

FWIW I didn't have a 'proper miscarriage' either, but I still think about what would have been.

I am keeping you in my thoughts at the moment. I read your other post about yelling at Celeste - you are going throu lots at the moment with so many conflicting emotions. Don't try to get over it sooner than you need to heal.

big hugs sazz.

I don't know really but can I guess that a lot of men don't think of a pregnancy as a baby until they either see it via u/s or hold the baby? We get attached as soon as we know.

Just to clarify a chemical pregnancy is just a term some people use for an early loss, nothing more.

I am sorry for your loss.

My DP is the same, I got a faint positive when AF was late and then a week later got what I thought was a period. It IS a loss and you have every right to grieve :hug:

hun, a chemical pregnancy is the term used to describe a loss before a heartbeat would be discoverable - you've had the change in hormones, but the fetus hasn't developed that far (so i think anything up to 5.5 weeks in a chemical pregnancy)

to me, that's just a load of BS! yes, it's the way the medico's describe it to take the emotion out of the journey - it's easier for them to deal with a chemical pg than to admit to a miscarriage - but for those of us that have suffered a loss of any sort, it hurts just as much

i have had 3 chemical pg's through the AC journey - and i refuse to allow anyone to discount those angels as any less important than the angel i lost at nine weeks. i knew i was pg (much like you did), i felt the changes - and when you're the one who is going through those changes, you start to bond immediately. your heart opens the flood gates and welcomes that precious soul, and when it is taken from you, your heart breaks

you are more than entitled to grieve your angel - your DH may not understand - for him, it wasn't "real" - but hun, your BB girls get it and will be here to support you through whatever emotional turmoil arrives in the coming weeks. don't try to stifle the emotions - you're allowed to be angry at the universe (in fact, i kinda encourage it - get it out cos bottling it up just makes it worse), you're allowed to cry. and you're allowed to tell your DH he's being a prat! it DID happen, your embie DID try to take hold - he needs to understand that, as soon as those embies were transferred, you shared a bond, and when one tried to stay but couldn't, that bond was severed - but not entirely - it took a piece of your heart with it

thinking of you babe

BG

I hate 'chemical pregnancy' - it makes me think it was all in my head... And that's BS!

IVF is a really hard road, i've discovered. I don't know about you, but if we had conceived naturally, and my period was a week late - I doubt I would have noticed. I've had worse cramps than this before. I think the really hard part is that you *know* there's an embryo in there, and that it's real. And it's almost harder because you've known about it for long time that you have ordinarily.

But having said that - it is 100% real, and a genuine loss, and now there's genuine grief that goes with that.

They sure do count hun!! A loss is a loss no matter how early, You knew about it and were already connecting emotionally with it, so grieve as much as you need to. For DH not acknowledging it is a way of dealing with it, even though guys don't get as connected to it as we do.

My DH has always looked at the test too and if can see the positive then he knows that there was something there.

Your Dr has confirmed that there was one that tried but just wasn't sticky enough, so it is counted medically.

Thanks ladies.

I have come to terms with it now.

I do feel differently towards this last cycle than the other failed ones I've had because I know there was a foetus there, clinging on to life for as long as it could. I felt it in my body and in my heart and that was different to the cycles where the embryos just didnt adhere to me at all. I felt devastated too in those cycles, wondering if it would ever happen but this time I feel hurt for what could have been, what was there for so short a time.

DH was very quick to say "I was wrong" when I told him what you all have said. Part of how his words hurt me was the way he just didnt think of how they might feel to me. I know it was just his way of rationalising things: he doesnt like to face anything unpleasant so will just put it aside.

So, that's that really. I know what happened was real and won't ever forget it.

I had an early miscarriage recently too Sazz and my DP reacted similarly to your DH and I was very disappointed in him.

I think he somehow thinks I'm exaggerating or turning it unnecessarily into a bigger deal that I should be when I call it a "miscarriage".

To me, it doesn't matter what the scientific terminology is - it's more that for a few days I thought I was pregnant and had started thinking about baby names and all that nice stuff that comes with being pregnant. It's hard to come to terms with suddenly losing all that excitement - no matter how early it is.

I know exactly what you mean about thinking ahead fiona.
I also had the pos hpt followed a few days later by a neg.

I was wondering if you had any pg symptoms as your angel was the same age as mine. I had nausea and tingly bb for about ten days prior to my blood test with the nausea ending the day before AF and the bb normal by late day of AF.
I have a bit of a strange Q for you: I swear I can smell milk on myself and was wondering if you had the same thing. I realise your DD is 6months older than mine and not sure what your BF situation was but surely my milk couldnt have started so quickly? I finished BF back in Sept so not that long ago...

Hope you are feeling better about things now... I think I am although I did have a little teary with an IVF friend yesterday when she asked me about our plans, while telling me of her plans. She is the first person IRL I have told.

Hi sazzafraz

I didn't get the tingly boobs like I normally do when pregnant but I just 'knew' I was pregnant. It was weird - a few days after DTD I felt like I could feel things going on inside. The best way I can describe it is it felt like I had sperm swimming around inside me meeting the egg. I know that sounds absurd!

As for the milk thing - no I didn't have that but I didn't 'really' BF DD although I expressed for two months so it's been about 17 months since that happened.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the body is a funny thing. Although in theory it's probably impossible for me to have felt the sperm fertilising the egg and it's unlikely that you would have got milk so early that doesn't negate the fact that we felt these things.

I'm feeling at peace with it all now. Because of my age, I was aware that there was a higher chance of miscarriage and I do feel reassured that I can still actually get pregnant so I try to see the positives.

I'm also very fearful about being pregnant again as I suffered from an unstable pelvis last time which caused a huge amount of problems physically and emotionally and put an enormous strain on my relationship with DP. Those feelings all came back when I was pregnant with my angel so I'm seeing this time as a chance to do as much preparation as possible to work through those feelings if the pain comes back by doing as much physio as possible and seeing a pain management counsellor as well as a relationship counsellor. Sorry that was a bit OT.

I hope you're also finding yourself a bit more at peace. I think it's good to talk about feelings rather than bottling them up (which I have a tendency to do sometimes).

Take carexxx

Hi ladies,
I was talking with a friend a couple of weeks ago, and she too said that I probably wasn't actually pregnant, so it wasn't a real pregnancy - it was probably juts the fertility hormones. :wall:

I had to explain that HCG isn't a hormone normally given to women on IVF, and I certainly wasn't one of them, so for a blood test to register HCG, there had been something there - even if it was only implanted for a few short weeks.

So I think much of the misundertanding of early loss comes from a lack of educations/understanding of what happens from conception to birth. I'm a really busy-body & enjoy (and parts of me *have to know*) researching EVERYTHING. But I also know that most people would find that tedious/boring, or are just plain not interested. And I'm faily sure that most people have never given a first thought to it - much less a second.

I'm more accepting now - of the MC and of people's insensitive comments too. They just don't get it. And I say - poor them.

Hey sazzafrazz,

We are going to have a natural cycle with a defrosted blasty this month - can I ask...
We have two icicles in the freezer, and with a 60-75% chance of suscessful defrost, did you consider putting both in? DH & I are considering putting in both, even though we risk twins, we just think the chances of suscessful implanting, and pregnancy would be higher.

I'm going to give the clinic a call later - I just wanted a 'normal' person opinion, instead of the 'clinic' opinion... which may be swayed by the chance of ripping a few more $$ by saying its better to do only one.

Hi there,

Thanks for your comments :)

I have always had two embies transfered whenever two were avail. Even when in my 20's. must be just the diff clinic protocol I guess? That's 5X double transfers and 1 single transfer over the years with one baby and one early MC to show for it so I guess the chances are pretty small. Although the prospect of this last transfer being twins if successful did freak me a little as I would have had 3bubs under the age of 2!!!

Best of luck to you for this cycle ..:crossfingers:

Sazz

Thanks!! :D

This isn't the right place to discuss this but...

entreat - I think you can be 100% reassured that there is NO WAY the clinic wants to only put one blast back because they stand to make more money. They want you pg - but in the safest, most appropriate way that fits your situation. The chances of successful implantation and pregnancy are not higher when you put two back.

You also said you have blasties as opposed to day 2 embies. I think it is super rare for a dr to put 2 blasties back.

They report back to a medical board on all IVF cases and although they want great results, they also want safe live births. They don't want to put you through lots of cycles to get more money.

That's my opinion.

Hi Sazzafraz,

A lot of people dont like the term "chemical pregnancy" they feel its too clinical. However for me - it helped to call it that - and the fact that I was actually pregnant (if only for a week) made me feel good that It could happen to me (I have never been pregnant before!) I had +ve POAS but very faint, the blood test confirmed the pregnancy was not going to be viable, I had a cry and was a bit moody for a few days but was overall feeling positive about the experience (I just hope it doesnt happen again!)

Whatever your thoughts though (whether you want to call it a chemical pregnancy or a m/c) it is whatever important for you to call it at that time and the loss is very real for you. Many men just don't get our feelings and obsessions about these things - I have heard that many dont feel a thing till the baby is out and in their arms!

I hope it turns out better for you next time.

Hi Buggirl,

It seems we are in the same boat at the moment! I'm so sorry to hear you've had a recent loss. Hope you are ok now!
I see you also have one frost left: me too! Do you know what your plans are for that one yet? I'm still not sure when we will go forward with ours. I am kinda scared to do it in case it doesnt thaw or is a BFN and then we have to consider "what next?"

Good luck to you!!!!!
Sazz

Hi Sazz,

Yes I guess we are in the same boat. I think I coped very well with the last loss, I guess I have had so much unpleasant news about my health in general lately that I have been trying to stay positive about everything - and it works!

I thought I would have to wait a month before I could try the last frostie I have - but the clinic said because I was on a completely natural cycle I could try straight away. I am currently having bt to detect my ovulation, and its a big pain as I have deep veins and its like getting it from a stone I always say to the nurse!

I know what your mean about decision making if it doesnt survive the thaw but I am hoping that it will, this is only my first round of IVF so we are prepared to do another one if my health is up to it. I have a good feeling about FET this time and it sure is preferable to having a full stim cycle - and not sure if it was prophetic or what but I found a kids toy just near my car at work the other day....... mmm might be grasping at straws about that one LOL!!