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I need some information regarding the antagonist cyle as i have only done 4 Long stimm cycles and my Doctor recently mentioned that perhaps I try the anatgonist cyle, has anyone doen this cycle or both and what results did you get ? I also wanted to know if you can produce more than 1 egg on the antagonist cycle and how much does it cost ?
I would really appreciate any information as I think my doctor may be suggesting this option to me again at my next visit, thanks !
i wasn't able to do a long down reg cycle due to my body refusing to wake up from the synarel - so i had to do antagonist cycles each time. i found it much easier to manage from an emotional perspective - it was no where near as drawn out, and hormonal impact was easier to cope with.
essentially, AF arrives (or for me, i got a BT to confirm flat lined hormones) - depending on your doc, you may still go on the pill. you have stim drugs for a week or so (depends on clinic) - and then, you have both stim drugs and another injection to stop you ovulating up until trigger day.
cost wise it's much the same - the antagonist injections are more exxy than synarel (or lucrin) but you're only on them for a few days. apart from that, the rest of the cycle is the same cost
as i mentioned, i got no response at all on a long cycle - on an antagonist cycle, depending on the drug dosage (i did both full IVF and insemination where we only wanted limited egg numbers) i got from 1 to 22 eggs. so a huge variation!!! i think the main thing is that, once you start on a dosage of meds, unlike a long cycle where they can change the dose up or down to look at your response, they tend to have to leave you on the same level of meds the whole way through
it did take a while, i'll not lie - but we got our BFP from an antagonist/insemination cycle - so it can work!
good luck - and above all, don't walk out of the FS office until you understand what is going to be happening for you! no point submitting to treatment you don't understand!
BG
Hi,
My first cycle last year was a down reg cycle. We got 13 eggs, 8 fertilised, 2 went to blast and were transferred, but no pregnancy occured. All of the other embryos didn't make it.
I'm in the middle of an atagonist cycle. I had egg pick up yesterday with 12 eggs, collected, 10 of which were usable. This morning our IVF nurse informed us that 8 eggs have fertilised.
I agree with Briggsy'sgirl, the difference in cost is negligible and I certainly found it a lot easier than the down reg. Less time and less impact physically and emotionally. The only negative in comparison was the increased injections, but that wasn't too bad.
I hope that helps and good luck.
alipetrina
I did 3 stim cycles and just about to start the antagonist cycle...so I am still getting my head around the details as well...
From what I understand, its a shorter cycle and less injections. Cost is very much the same but the drug to stop ovlulation called Oragultran is quite expensive. Like $90 each injection and if you are not covered by private h/i, medicare doesn't rebate that. But this could range from 2-5 injections depends on each person.
BG, at what point of the cycle you start to have Oragultran do you still remember? The last two FET cycles, I have Oed when follicles just 10mm, do they do anything to pre-empt that?
Sorry to hijike the thread, but hope to keep each other updated on this front....
alipetrina, good luck with this cycle, looking forward to hearing some good result! Let us know!
Thanks for the good wishes Cuddlepie.
If it helps: After 5 days of Puregon I started Orgalutran (whilst still injecting Puregon) for 3 days. The ultrasound then showed 19 follicles, 9 over 1cm. My FS decided to keep my on Puregon and Orgalutran for another 3 days to increase follicle size. As I mentioned in the last post we ended up with 10 viable eggs, 8 of which have fertilised. So, fingers crossed.
All the best Cuddlepie.
Ali
Ali, does that mean you had your EPU on Day 11? I guess without lucrin or similar repressing drugs in a down-reg cycle, follicles are mature quicker than normal?
CP - i've had IUI as early as day 8, EPU on day 12 (from memory) - it really just depends on the cycle - sometimes you react quickly and your follies grow 2mm a day, sometimes slowly (1mm a day) and it makes a huge difference as to when EPU/IUI happens.
my successful IUI was the longest i've been stimmed for an IUI (9 days in total i think)
Oh, wow, so it will truly be a 'short cycle', I am now loving how this sounds and can't wait to start...thanks hun
Cuddlepie, I too had EPU on day 12. I've found the antagonist cycle a lot better with the same results (so far). My FS changed me to this protocol in the hope of having some embryos to freeze, as it is supposed to improve egg quality.
Regards,
Ali
Hi ali,
Just wondering how your little eggies going after the fertilization? I hope you had 1 put back and some frozen for later...
cuddlepie
Hi Cuddlepie,
We had one good blastie put back in yesterday, but unfortunately none to freeze. Now just trying to keep occupied and not over-analyse every pelvic twinge until BT on the
19th!
Regards,
Ali
Oh well done, :clap: for one blastie on board! Don't forget it only takes one and you might not need anything else.
Looking forward to hearing some great news from you. Join TWW thread, lots of ladies are in similar boat and can go "crazy" together...:lol: there are amazing support there!
Thanks and I will have a look at the TWW thread. When are you starting your next cycle? Is it definately going to be an antagonist cycle this time?
Yes, it will be if my D1 b/t is ok to start I guess...Af probably will arrive on 16th MArch...
Ali, fingers crossed for your b/t today...I hope its a BFP!
AFM, started antagonist cycle already, currently on Day 4 of FSH and will have 1st scan tomorrow...so we will see...
Hi everyone,
I am on an antagonist cycle i'm interested to know when you all started to introduce the orgalutron and when your first b/t and u/s was.
Tonight will be my 5th puregon injection 150iu then tom (Fri) i do 150iu + the first orgalutron. Then i have my first b/t and u/s sat which will be 7th day. I'm not really feeling any symptoms yet - i'm a bit paranoid it's not working!
(just noticed i'm not far in front of you cuddlepie - 1 day!)
xxBella
bella
i was on day 7 before introducing the antagonist meds on the full IVF stim cycle, and didn't have BT and scan until Day 8 (friday) - had EPU on the following Tuesday, so only had 3 days of the antagonist meds on that cycle....
Bella, I think every clinic is different. Mine did b/t after 3 shot of FSH which was yesterday and I am going in Friday (will be Day5 on FSH) for another b/t and u/s to see when to start Orgaultran. Its my very first cycle, so I guess they are monitoring closely.
I dont' have any symptoms either but from the b/t they say will see good number of follicles, so I guess its not neccessarily not working if you don't feel anything...we are just lucky ones...
Hope your scan goes well on Saturday.
BG, you are so lucky only have 3 shot of Orgaultran, they say it really hurts. I am not looking forward to start that.
ahhhh, it was only three shots on THAT cycle - have probably had about a dozen of them in total cos i can't use the normal down reg protocols at all!:
they DO hurt more than the fsh shots - but no more than the trigger. you have to have them around the same time everyday so they continue working (i was having them at 10am or something for IUI cycles, 8pm for the IVF cycle) and can't have trigger shot within 24 hours of last shot. i just set an alarm. was great dashing off to the shower room at work to shoot up! i think people were beginning to wonder what i was doing but i didnt care!
i had two different types of antagonist shots - cetrotide for IUI and orgalutron for the IVF cycle. the orgalutron needle didn't seem to have the same point on it, so kinda felt blunt going in - thankfully i have a fatty pumbah tum so lots of flesh for it to go into. i only bruised once from all the antagonist and trigger shots/progesterone support shots combined over three years, so it can't be too bad!
CP - good luck with this cycle - I hope it's the one! Please check out the link to the safety net issue - it's really important.
Thanks for the tips BG...that's reassuring...Gee, I didn't know you did that for 3 years babe, I thought I've been on this forever....:rolleyes:
Julie, got the link and will write a letter at the weekend, thanks for doing this hun, we certainly need to stop it...
CP - as for the shots, there's a thread with some suggestions on how to help it hurt less - I can't remember where it is, but it's fairly recent and shouldn't be so hard to find. I found that if I pushed the needle in quickly (and it is blunter and possibly thicker than the gonalF needle), but pushed the plunger in very slowly, it didn't hurt as much. I did find that when I asked DH to do it (because I couldn't get the needle in - I didn't realize how much harder I had to push), it hurt so much more. I was much better at controlling it when I did it myself as I do with the gonalF. I think I had 4 shots all up.
we were diagnosed in Jan 06 as having fertility issues, and were at the "trying game" a year before that. first AC (clomid) cycle mid 06, BFP Sept 08, so a bit over two years of assisted conception i guess. i think it took us 13 cycles of being "helped", two natural pg and angel babies, 3 AC angels before our Gremlin.:
thing is, it's all relative - for me, this was a long time - but i then compare with others (Ellie for instance) that were at it for 10 years and wonder why i thought i had it so tough. i think we ALL need to accept that, individually for us, no matter how long the journey, it's physically and emotionally tough on the US and that's what we have to recognise. don't compare your journey to someone else - just look at what YOU have been through, what you've achieved, what you've survived - you'll find you're one strong chicky and didn't even realise it!
Thanks BG, that really helps...I guess sometimes its so hard Not to compare, especially seeing some ladies coming in and out just like that (don't take me wrong, I am so happy that they don't have to wait that long) but it really derpesses me...I feel I am a IVF veteran now although I only been through 3 cycles so far with 1 angel in the space of more than 2 year of AC. It just feels soooo long. My nurse got pregnant had her baby and now back to work and me, still trying. Same with my APist...she will be back in May and see I am still the same. Thanks for making me feel a lot better...
Sorry guys, a little bit off the topic, now I am going....;)
Bella, just wondering how you go with your scan and b/t? I hope its all on track.
I had my second b/t and u/s today and seems to have 7-8 follicles altogether, which for me is not stunning just fairly normal. I am a bit worried about the sizes varies so much and I won't be ended up as much as I wish, like the biggest one is 20mm and smaller ones are 10mm.
Anyway, just things you wonder along the way really to make is not much fun...
Hi Cuddlepie,
I have been thinking about you!
Well i had first B/T and U/S Saturday - E2 levels 520 and only one or two dom follies. Went for another yesterday E2 up to 1420 5 large ranging from 16-12 and 20 follies in total. I was a little dissapointed they arn't bigger but my FN says "i'm coming along slowly and thats better than coming along fast - they are growing wel" I don't know i don't feel great about it but hey! I have another B/T and U/S on Wed and they are guessing EPU fri or Sat. I'm very bloated though - when i had my last down reg IUI cycle my E2 levels were 1500 with 2 follies 18 and 17mm when we triggered - i have read though that the orgalutran makes you develop slower????
Hope your travelling ok - i have some nice bruises on my tummy!!
xxBella
Bella, good to know that you are on track and EPU is on Friday, I hope I will be one day after you...
I think your E2 level is very good and you don't want too high E2 level at EPU, it is said in research that women with high E2 levels tend to have low implantation rate.
Mine on Saturday (which is D6 on FSH) was 780, I think its on lower side so hoping today's result will be better. I tend to agree that Orgalutran is slowing you down a bit, because on Friday scan I had follicles range from 8, 10, 11, and today seems some of them only grow for about 2mm after 3 days.
DH has been my male nurse for the last 3 days, he is doing very well with all the needles, maybe he should get the 2nd job...hehe....
Hi everyone
CP, thinking of you and hoping this cycle goes well. Just out of curiosity, why did your FS recommend changing protocol? Assuming as you are looking at similar number of follies, it had something to do with egg quality?
Bella, GL to you also, I will be interested to see how your follies grow. I had not heard that the orgalutran might make the follies grow slower.
AFM, I just thought I would drop in to say that today I have started my first short cycle, having done 4 down reg cycles previously. My protocol sheet states it is a boost cycle, I am still reading up on in, but this post has helped alot. Just for sharing, here is my plan if all goes to plan:
Day 1 AF arrived
Day 2 FSH
Day 3 FSH
Day 4 FSH
Day 5 FHS
Day 6 FSH + orgalutran + scan
Day 7 FSH + orgalutran
Day 8 FSH + orgalutran + scan
Day 9 FSH + orgalutran
Day 10 FSH + scan + trigger
Day 11
Day 12 EPU
I am loving the fact it is so short. I have discussed with FS that fact that I have PCOS tendencies, in down reg cycles normally having around 20 follies, my magic FSH number on down reg seems to be 100. So to be conservative I am starting on 75 assuming to get a slightly less response. Fingers crossed.
FS explained the standard protocol for antagonist cycle was 9 days of FSH, antagonist from day 5 of FSH, and providing by 9 days of stims the lead follie is over 16mm and there are at least 2 other follies of 16mm, straight to trigger. I would have thought that the follies might be too immature to trigger at 16mm, I wonder if they believe there is an extra growth surge once the orgalutran is stopped, between trigger and EPU, more so than a down reg? Hmm. Very interesting.
I am just hoping now that I won't over stim and end up with too many follies, as we are aiming for less but better quality.
Also quick question re orgalutran and the air bubble, the nurse told me to inject with the air bubble at the end, but to keep going and inject the air itself as this will seal the injection site. But the instructions say to expell the air before injecting. It also says to draw back the plunger once the needle is inserted to see if any blood is pulled back, and if this happens it means the needle is inserted incorrectly, and to discard and start again? Is anyone doing this. At $80 a pop, this sounds crazy. Any thoughts?
TIA. x
BDT - DO NOT EXPELL THE AIR - INJECT IT!!! Your nurse is correct it seals to ensure you get the full amount of medication - ignore the instruction sheet - i am a nurse and beleive me you will lose medication if you try to get rid of the air! Just remember when you give it it does take quite a bit of pressure to push down the plunger - oh and i numbe the site first for 1 min with an ice brick - haven;t even felt it!
As for your protocol it sounds very similar to mine - i am interested however about trigger with follie at 16mm - this makes sense because i have been really disapointed with the size of mine and have been wondering how on earth they would be at 18-20 (which is when they normally trigger i read) by Fri - so that makes me feel better - maybe they do mature more once the orgalutran stops!!!
GL - will post after my scan and B/T tom morning.
xxBella
BDT, welcome to Antaganist cycle group! ;) Well, my FS suggested because I've done 3 down-reg cycles and just come to think of it, it has sth to do with egg quatlity. Because we had 8 eggs (2nd down-reg cycle) and 9 on the 3rd but ended up with 2 and 3 blasties. He thinks change of protocle could potentially increase the number of blasties, especially DH's SCSA is excellent so its drawn to the egg quality. I am hoping I would have better result also have the mentality that I have nothing to lose really to try sth new.
You little planning sheet sounds wonderful but atm I am on my D9 on FSH (with E2 of 2110) and D3 on Orgalutran, with the follicles are around 10mm, seems that I have some growing to do. So trigger won't be until Sat/sun at the earliest. Longer than I thought.
I was worring about over-stimulate at the start as well, because I respond well on down-reg cycles. But now it seems that my body is responding a bit slow on FSH, I have to increase the dose from 150 to 175 on Day 6. Don't want to scare you hun but seems like new protocle can make body do different things.
I have a question, do you do orgalutran and trigger on the same day? How much gap do you have to leave? Just trying to predict how far long till trigger and how many more Orgalutran I need to buy.
I do get rid of the air bubbles before injecting it, just have to be careful, I use my thumb to prevent pushing too much further so you don't lose the drug, it also helps to loosen up the plunger for ease injection. But if you have trouble of getting rid of the bubbles, like Bella said, its not a big deal really....forget about the instruction sheet, I read the part of drawing blood etc, yeah, its so expensive, who would want to start again! It is literally like drawing my blood...
Best of luck girl, my next b/t and u/s will be Thursday, clinic just called. So will let you know how I go. I hope the theroy of growing quickly after trigger is right so I don't have wait that long.
Hi CP, on the day of the trigger you do all your meds again (I took Puregon, Orgalutran and Pregnyl). I am normally taking my meds at 10pm and as I had to take the trigger at 8pm they ask me to take the meds two hours earlier at 6pm.
BDT: Agree with Bella, don't worry about the airbubbles just inject them - I tried to get rid of them and lost half my meds one night, everything was fine in the end but it's not worth it.
Sara
Hi Girls,
I have trigger tonight - nothing else def no orgalutran so check with your clinic CP. EPU for me Fri - very excited and nervous!
xxBella
Thanks Sara, but I do remember somewhere BG said that you have to have 24hrs gap between Orgalutran and trigger....Bella, when was you last shot of Orgalutran?
Best of luck for the EPU and enjoy the drug-free day today hun...I hope you get lots of good quatlity eggs!
Hi CP, maybe ask the clinic, I definitely only had a 2 hour gap. Hope everything is going well for you
Sara
Hi everyone,
CP, I hope you went well with your scan and BT today, and hope those follies are coming along nicely. I am seeing my FS on Saturday, and will ask re the speed of growth once stopping orgalutran. I am still feeling a little nervous, but in a similar head space as your are it seems, trying desperatly to find some positive hope. And hoping too I will stimulate ok, I love to plan and hope the days will match up, I have already worked out EDD (25th Dec 09), how sad is that!
Bella, GL for your EPU on Friday, look forward to hearing how you go.
Sara, thinking of you too, how can your FS tell there are only 3 follies, are these resting follies before any FSH that are expected to grow to egg? I agree with CPs comments per your last cycle, 1 blastie from 3 eggs is an excellent result. I know you have heard it so many times before, but it only takes one. Praying for you.
Hugs, xx
Hi Girls,
BDT Thanks for thinking of me, no she doesn't know how many follies there are this time she just made a guess based on nine follies last time with an FSH of 9.7, will just have to wait for ultrasound. HOpe things go well for you on Satruday.
CP: Thinking of you, hope follies are growing nicely.
Bella: good luck with EPU.
Sara
BDT, like you, I am a planner too, extremely! I love you got EDD all worked out...I wish I could do the same, this evil journey turned me into a cynical and pessimestic sook...I was planning how many stim cycles I can do this year and freeze all the embies so at least next year I will have some 38-year-old-embie...:rolleyes: I know its sad....
Still don't know when EPU will be, the scan this morning showed same number of follicles but still there are some gaps in between, biggest 25mm :o and smaller ones are around 12mm and 13mm...I am hoping for a Sunday EPU but don't know if they do Sundays...
My EPU is on Saturday, clinic just called, earlier than I thought but I hope they know better than I do ...Just glad no more drugs....trigger is tonight
wish me luck guys....
Hi Cuddlepie,
Wishing you all the best for your EPU - I hope you get lots and lots of eggs. I had my second blood test today but I haven't received the results yet. Hopefully I'll hear first thing in the morning.
Good Luck,
Ali
CP - GL today - thinking of you xxx
AFM - EPU yest 12 eggs just got a call from clinic we have 8 embryos and are doing a day 5 transfer which is Wed my mums birthday!
Was very sore yest not to bad today.
xxBella