experience with chinese doctor and acupuncture etc

Hi all....like many of you, I have been using natural /alternative medicines on this journey to try and get all the help I can get!
I've recently started seeing a new Chinese doctor, who uses acupuncture, chinese herbs etc.
Anyway, one of my friends who LTTTC before having her first child, reported big success with this lady, she fell pregnant fairly soon after seeing her. Another friend who is still LTTTC has had no success after seeing this lady for quite a while.
They both warned me she doesnt have a great bedside manner.
Anyway, I think she has NO bedside manner. She has broken English and at my last visit she said to me "you find it very hard to be pregnant right now, energy too low...you should no bother even try...you just waste your energy". I felt like any faint flickerings of hope and positivity I have been trying hard to regain and hold on to, were squashed. I know she is just one lady, but I feel so low as it is, and now heading into my next cycle, I keep hearing her words echo in my head and feel like maybe we are wasting our time. Which is not the head space I want to be in!
I'm not happy with her, but I also want to do anything I can to help and figure she knows what she's doing. She also talked about my blood flow not being good, which is one of the reasons why babies "drop down" (miscarry), because "not enough blood to sustain".
Have any of you had this type of experience, approach? What do you think of this? I guess i need to find a way to deal with her manner if I keep seeing her, and to try and be positive anyway.

Possums - If you were in Melb, I'd swear that you went to my acupuncturist. She has said things very similar (not the same issues, but same result - you should wait, body isn't ready, energy not right, etc.) - I was so upset - given my age, I didn't know how she could say this, and I told her that. She explained a bit about the beliefs of TCM and how she was only saying that my body needed to be ready. In any event, I was so distressed that I almost didn't go back to her - but I decided that 1 - I really think that as far as TCM goes and fertility issues, she knows her stuff and 2 - some of it is cultural and language issues (mine AP is fluent, but her word choices when speaking are sometimes not how I'd say something and sometimes she is hard to understand). She is very blunt and direct, and doesn't necessarily care if she says something I don't want hear, she says what she believes. Keep in mind that if yours shares the same TCM beliefs as mine, they do think that it can take 3-6 months for a body to be balanced - BUT that doesn't mean you have to wait, she should be willing to also work with what you want. For example, mine wanted me to wait but I told her we would be trying naturally (this was 2 months ago) and she said fine, if that's what you want to do (and she was NOT encouraging - she tried to dissuade me over & over) - but she did work with me and adjusted the herbs accordingly.

I guess my point is, if you can somewhat ignore the negativity (which they really don't mean as such, but rather they are espousing their beliefs about TCM and your body being ready) and you believe she is good at what she does, I'd continue to go.

Possum, sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with her. But I do feel compelling to write this post and want to say - if you feel that she has any value with regards to her expertise, her knowledge of TCM, go and see her with a single minded goal that she can fix your problem and don't take any negativity of how she worded the sentence.

I agree with Julie, because of the language barrier and culture difference, they can be very blunt and somehow you just need to build a barrier to filter the good and left the bad behind.

Also of knowing a bit more of asian culture, I know it is a common mentality in chinese medical profession, is 'always start with the worst senario' because they want to manage your expectation. Say if they find a tumor on a patient's ovary, they will start the diagnosis with if it is overian cancer, then eliminity down to the next possibilty. So sometimes it can be quite scarey but a bit shock to the system. But I do know that a good Chinese doctor is extremely focused and if the one you are seeing really knows her stuff, I don't see its a negative thing that point out the problem, that means she is able to fix it.

Asking her how she can improve your body and how long do you have to wait. Is she confident that she can fix the problem?

I hope you will get some benefit of seeing her...let us know how you go...

Thanks both of you for the insight and perspective. It's interesting and good to know and understand this is a common sort of approach. I know she is focussed on helping me achieve my goal. I suppose I am just a bit fragile right now :redface: and also impatient! :wall: Having said that, I am going back to her, because I figure she can hopefully help get my body/energy right. I guess I'll just try and keep hopeful in the meantime anyway.

I know hun, its hard to deal with any insensitive comments when you feel fragile, but remember to put on your thick shell when seeing her, and also you are allowed to ask her some direct questions that you normally wouldn't ask your western doctors either. Like how long does she think she can fix you to get back to her....:) Best of luck hun.

wow glad i'm not going there !!

i have acu in hobart and the lady is the most amazing person, she is honest and caring, even sends me texts to see how each FET has gone.

i wish you could find someone like her.

good luck

JBM- me too! I could do with some nice bedside manner right now :) ah well, so long as she is helping me somehow

Hi Girls,

Just putting in my 2 cents worth. I feel the whole reason for seeing an alternative medical practitioner during IVF is improve your wellbeing whilst having an incredibly intrusive medical procedure. I have had no issue with dropping like a hot potoato a practioner who I thought has a lousy bedside manner any more than dropping a Gyno or GP whose manner was also poor. I know sometimes we have to be told things we dont want to hear - but thats totally different to being annihilated emotionally during a difficult time (and a good practioner should be sensitive to this as are good doctors). During very emotional times its also difficult to be proactive in your choices and to stand up for yourself.

Possums - if on reflection of your visit, you are honestly in the belief that this person can help, then you have made the right choice to persist. If you feel otherwise or your doubt continues - there are plenty of practioners from whom you can seek a second opinion!

Good luck!

Hi there,

I agree with Buggirl, someone with a bad bedside manner (cultural reasons or not) can only add to your stress during something as emotionally intensive as IVF. I have had girlfriends pay big dollars to go to the best OB in Sydney, but leave his office upset and sometimes in tears because of his abrupt bedside manner. To me it's not worth it.

Both myself and my husband have been going to a Chinese Herbalist/Acupuncturist for 12 months now and it has made a big difference to us both. He has a great manner. We have just completed our first IVF stim cycle - with age against us and my history of endometriosis. I got 16 eggs and 3 made it to Blastocyst. I'm confident that I would not have done so well without all of the treatment.

Good luck with your acu Possums, but do consider removing anything from your life that adds extra stress to you during an IVF cycle. You want to be in the best shape possible physically and emotionally to give it your best shot :D

Thanks Buggirl and mindhugs...I do agree with your point of view. I don't have much choice in my town, so I will keep going for a while, and if its too upsetting, give her up.

I am seeing her again today, so I will see how I go...I feel a bit less fragile this week, and perhaps I have braced myself more for her now!...

She will probably tell me 'no sexy time', but I have just ovulated and we DTD...and I plan on telling her (with extra courage after reading your responses!) that we do intend to keep trying for a baby, so she needs to work with me on that approach! :)

Hey Possums,

I think that your approach to her today is a good one. Despite her telling you what she thinks on that matter, she needs to respect your decision to keep trying.

Let us know how you get on.

I'm on my second acupuncturist - the first lady had 20 odd years experience in infertility but she was a dragon. Didn't make eye contact and lectured me on my diet (which is very very healthy!!!!) so I ditched her and have found the most amazing woman. I guess it's trial and error hey?

Good luck babes
S X

Sue- thats good you have found the right person for you now! I think it is trial and error, but like I said, in a regional area, sometimes there arent many choices unfortunately.
I do also see another guy who does chiropractic, with added acupuncture/energy healing sort of all rolled in, and he is great, a very sensitive approach.
anyway, saw my chinese lady today, and she wasnt quite so abrupt (or maybe I was just more ready) and this week my pulses were stronger than they have been and I have graduated to acupuncture (the other visits she simply said my body was not yet ready)...so I must be improving :lol: I also have my usual bundle of chinese medicine to take "to build up my blood supply so I can support a baby for more than just weeks".
Here's hoping it all does the trick, combined with the western medical approach!

Awww, that's great Possums.

I too have "bad blood flow" and we are working on that. I can now feel every single needle when it goes in and then when it's in. It's amazing. Apparently my chi is flowing better (whatever that means hehe.
I'm really hoping it does the trick for me too. I have lots of confidence in it.

Fingers crossed for us both.

I am there with you Sue...here's hoping we can be pregnant together very soon xx

If it's any consulation, I had a similar experience with my accupuncturist repeatedly telling me that the reason I'm not getting pregnant is because my body "isn't strong enough" and that I'm "not ready". It grated on my nerves, as I also thought it was a pretty negative thing to say. I eventually stopped going.

Hi Possums, glad you are feeling better about your Acupuncture, just wanted to say best of luck for your FS appointment today and I hope they have found something that is easily treatable. Big hugs

So happy your experience has improved Possums. Keep us posted on how things are going! Happy positve vibes to you!

cheers
Buggirl

Dear girls...
its disturbing to hear all your not so great experiences with acupuncturists who dont have good "bedside' manner or even any empathy. I agree with you Buggirl, Sue and Mindhugs, I dont think you should put up with anyone, incl gynos or doctors, who dont have decent communication skills or a positive supportive manner. I guess its OK for some surgeons (who are just going to take out your tonsils for example) not to have a great bedside manner, but when you're dealing with infertility its another ball game. I dont mean to say we are fragile precious little flowers who cant take any rough treatment - its just that when I choose to consult someone who says they are able to help my condition I expect them to have a respectful relationship with me and communicate in a way I can understand. Well thats just me .......... I was lucky my FS was able to recommend an acupuncture clinic where the practitioners really know what they are talking about, and have a lot of experience with IVF patients and actually talk to the FS about what they are doing too ....... and can tell me what they are doing in language i understand - I like that they are following proven research protocols too. But then its not so easy when you are not living in the city - so i hope your experience improves Possums .......... love to hear how you are all going with it.

Laura

I am not sure what to do. I just got back from my Acupuncturist - first appointment since last week's m/c. And she made me feel like cr*p. She really made me feel like it was my fault for not being patient and waiting - LIKE SHE TOLD ME - for my body to be ready. This really is not what I needed. I'm really torn because I think she is good at AP but at this point, I don't think she's good for my head - I was wavering between crying, getting up and walking out and just grin & bear (or is it bare) it. But I also think that I've had decent implantation success because of her - and she is also down the street from my office - a major plus when fitting this in. If anyone knows of a good (experienced with IVF), kind hearted AP that is convenient to the CBD in Melb please PM. She's also been very flexible with the pre-embryo retrieval and transfer - coming in when she's not scheduled to be working etc. I don't know what to do.

Julie- I am really sorry that you acupuncturist is so insensitive and lacking in bedside manner. It is not what you need right now, and as you know,mine has also left me feeling very upset. You are fragile after a miscarriage, especially when it's not your first loss. The grief and other feelings simply compound (at least thats been my experience).
So my advice to you wouldbe to stay away from her at least until you feel a bit stronger. In the meantime you might find someone else. If not, return to this lady and take the good from her, while letting the other stuff wash off. You need to be strong enough to do that though. Thinking of you and hope things feel a bit easier for you soon.

Thanks Possums.

I have thought about this and decided to make a change. I swallowed what she said after my first m/c - and for months I was able to put that aside and focus on her skills (which I do believe in) - but I am no longer able to do this. I just can't go to someone who doesn't understand that less than 7 days after their 2nd loss, it is not appropriate to "blame" them and call them impatient and say that they don't want to help themselves (paraphrasing, but this is what I heard).

I had saved a brochure that was in the chemist where i picked up my last round of ivf drugs of a place that specializes in fertility issues - they do acupuncture and other alternative treatments in for fertility including in conjunction with ivf - they made a point on their website of saying they work with Western medicine and they are convenient (not as convenient, but it won't be stressful for me to get to them, which was my main concern). I hope this is the right choice for me. I figure that if I want to go back to her, I can...but at this point, i doubt it.

Possums - How is your acup treatment going? I also of course hope that you are doing OK - you've had to absorb a lot of information of late. My belief is that now that you have been diagnosed, you will get there - I really do.

Hi BulieJ,

It is so upsetting to read that you're not having a good experience. I so agree with you that if it is not right for your head, then you have to change it. This cycle, DH and I threw everything up in the air as we were just having no success and finding that the more our FS put us in the hard basket, the less supportive she was. So we're at a new clinic, I even changed to a new acupuncturist. (I'm in Sydney so can't help there).

We did lots of research on the net and read their websites intently. We have chosen to go with an acupuncturist that has clinical research and studies on their website and just looks really professional. Luckily the staff are just as professional as their look and they really know their stuff. They specialise in IF and have a good programme. Instead of jumping into another acupuncturist, can you do the same kind of research on the net and see what is around? Can your clinic recommend anyone?

Acupuncture really helps me emotionally as much as physically and you have to be relaxed.

In fact, we were recommended a specialist for gyno problems about 2 years before starting fertility treatment. He was the leading guy in the area and we waited months to get it. But he was such a tool. I asked a question ahead of what he was saying and he reached over and slapped my hand and told me to wait!!!!!! Can you believe that???? So regardless of whether he had the knowledge, there was no way I was spending my hard earned money on such a wally!

I think with anything in this process, you have to be happy. Because goodness knows, there are so many other challenges we're up against.

All the very best to you.

Buliej- I am glad you have made that decision and certainly hope the new acupuncturist works for you. I havent been back to mine since my recent diagnosis - I need to check if the herbs etc she gave me are still ok to take (have stopped them for now) but just havent wanted to see her again yet.
I do see someone else, an Australian man who also does chircopractic and energy healing, and I think I might just stick with seeing him. He did my acupuncture with my previous successful cycle, so hopefully he can help me get a BFP again.
Thinking of you Julie... it's a hard time for you right now.

Turner - I did the same (this time for the new one) - looked at the web - This is a group who specializes in fertility - they do acupuncture plus other natural treatments with an emphasis on fertility. Their brochure was in the main chemist that my ivf clinic has us go to for the drugs. I also spoke with their receptionist for a while and picked a clinician who sounded like the best fit from their bios...I cannot believe the dr slapped your hand! what is with these people.

Possums - smart for thinking to stop taking the herbs - it's important to find out if they are contrary to the medication and your condition. Glad to hear you have someone to go to who makes you feel better and not worse - that's really what this is all about isn't it?