Bull Terrior/Pig Dogs!

I have a question!

DF and I have always wanted to eventually get a Bull Terrior/Pig Dog and over the weekend told me that when we get one he would like to take it out "once in a blue moon" to use them for what they are actually bred for. Pig Hunting!

We currently have a German Shepherd who is 2 years old and the most placid/dopey dog you will ever meet, but of course I wouldn't never leave a child around him un-attended, even though I have the upmost confidence he would never hurt them, but you just never know.. and I'm hoping once we get this other pup it will catch on to his temperment and have no interest in chasing down pigs!

I'm a little uneasy about it, especially when we are TTC a bub I don't really want a dog that knows how to "hunt" around the house, although it will be a family pet first and be treated exactly as our other dog, iykwim.

I don't really know anyone who has had this bread as a pet other than my dad back in the day, who said his pup was as wussy as they come, but wasn't very tollerable with other dogs that he didn't have regular contact with.

If anyone has had any experience with them I would love to hear about it!

Sorry for the ramble! xx

It would be very important to be able to interact with both parents of the puppies to see what they are like. But just my opinion...the dog is either a pig hunting dog or a pet...the lines of being a pig dog vs being a docile, safe pet may be easily blurred by the dog's instincts. Would probably also depend on if the dog was a crossbreed or a "purebred" hunting dog (whatever breed that may be) as to how "reliable" the puppies temperament is going to be as it gets older.

My brother's friends have pig dogs, a couple of them are bit so so and I wouldn't want anything to do with them, one of them is a lovely dog, but I still wouldn't let little children around it. If it were me, I would do a lot of research and choose a puppy carefully, view both parents and interact with both parents, and if you can older dogs from previous litters if they may have kept any. I would definitely steer clear of backyard breeders which can be a little dodgy anyway, but with a dog that has deeply ingrained hunting instincts you'd want to make sure the breeder is being 100% honest with you and knows what their dogs are like temperament-wise.

I would never EVER have children around a pig dog. In fact my brother bred them for years and he would not allow us in the backyard even when the pups were little.

1) - why bother if he is only going hunting once in a blue moon. If its bred properly its unfair. I wouldn't keep a Kelpie in a backyard either.

2) - its bred for ripping the guts/jugulars out of BIG, WILD BOARS - you can't have that around children. End of Story.

Lulu- Im with you.

I am confused, are you talking about a Bull Terrier ? The ones with the long snout ?

Do they hunt wild pigs ?

Though they are not ideal for a first-time dog owner, because of their power and difficulty to train, their physical strength is matched by their intelligence, which makes them thoroughly reliable pets. Both body and mind need to be kept active and they can be fun and playful. They are typically very affectionate dogs that love human company. Bull Terriers are particularly good with children, and usually have a high pain threshold, which reduces the risk of injury to children from a defensive bite. Younger dogs, however, may regard children as playmates and because of their strength could cause inadvertent injury. They are protective of children in their charge, and the females are especially noted for this. Bull Terriers make formidable guard dogs while their owners are away. The American Temperament Test Society, Inc. (ATTS), a not-for-profit organization that promotes uniform temperament testing for dog breeds, gives the Bull Terrier a pass rate of 92.1% as of the 25/8/8. The average for all breeds is 81.5%.

The English bull terrier is a great family dog as they are calm and relaxed but will play and become very active when played with they are very lovable and should be great with children when socialized at a early age.

i love these dogs. I dont think i will ever get one though.

As far as hunting dogs go, those i know with them keep them as hunting animals. they have them separate from the pets. They are not a pet, and I think with that breed it would be too confusing and unfair for them to be expected to go out hunting sometimes and to be a good family pet the rest of the time.

I had a pet bull terrier (pure bred) growing up and I loved her to bits.

When I was about 4 or 5 my dad bought home our new pet, a bull terrier that was given to him at work that day, how did this happen? he was at work (a muffler shop) when a customer pulled up with a bull terrier in the car, it was young but fully grown, it had marks and blood everywhere, it turned out that its parents would attack and fight it when ever they were unattended so this guy had to take it everywhere until he found her a new home. Well my dad fell in love and bought her home :D.

She was the most pleasent, placid, loving dog ever, (we also had a Chihuahua at home, she was the knarky one). Our bull terrier, who had been named 'Keg' by the previous owners was wonderful, she wouldn't hurt a fly, I used to constantly use her as a pillow :D I have photos somewhere... I will see if I can find one. My parents never ever hesitating in leaving us alone together.

We used to go hunting when I was young, mainly rabbit hunting, and Keg would come with us. She would fetch the dead rabbits, but she did not hunt them alive as such.

Our dog Keg was beautiful. She had a rough start to life but with our love she was a wonderful pet. She died when I was a young teenager after we moved house and the new neighbour had said he didn't trust bull terriers... we think she was poisened. I now have a Kelpie that I have had for the past 13 years...

I can in no way speak about all bull terriers and the way they will be around children. I personally would not trust a hunting dog around my children even though I am contradicting my dog/upbringing, with the hunting side of things I guess we did it right and we were lucky. I would not teach a dog to hunt if they were to be a family pet.

I just thought that I would tell you my story of my beloved dog that I trusted with my life and yes she was a bull terrier :D

google pigdoggers and pig dog, then think about if you want one of them!

Besides the fact they are bred to immobilise/kill feral pigs they are the UGLIEST buggers ever....

They are far from ugly Lulu... those snouts are beautiful (but I am biased).
Also, I believe, if they are raised correctly, with love, affection and no hunting (even sometimes with hunting as I have lived) they can be wonderful, reliable pets.

I agree with Lulu and others.
I was raised with shepherds and farm dogs my whole life, so I am no prude about dogs around kids. But hunting dogs that are used as hunting dogs need not to be treated as pets - they are simply not pets. And especially around kids is just irresponsible imo.
You are much better off getting another shepherd. You can get the puppies that dont make it as police dogs, just call the K9 division of the police in your state and they will tell you when the next intake is up. That way you know they have been socialised, temperament tested and have begun training. They are excellent dogs around kids, even littleys, when trained properly :)

Good luck!

Nope Pigdogs ARE ugly cos they are such a strange mix. Not talking about Bullies!

An article I found when googling pig doggers....

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Busting the Myth of The Vicious Pig Dog.
Tony O'Toole Ex President Australian Pig Doggers & Hunters Association.

Those with an ill-informed and biased point of view have long perpetuated the urban myth of the vicious pig dog. This booklet has been produced by the Australian Pig Doggers & Hunters Association to help dispel this myth and show the so-called pig dog as a loved and obedient family pet.
Responsible and caring owners, from all walks of life, who see their dogs as part of the family, use the dogs shown in all the pictures in the hunting of pigs. Far from being savage killers they help control a feral pest, that causes devastating damage to our natural environment, by finding and holding the pig so it can be dispatched quickly and humanely.

Dr. Kersti Seksel, a Registered Specialist in Veterinary Behaviour, in her report to the New South Wales Government on issues related to dangerous dog legislation in July 2002, stated that since 1978 there has been only 11 deaths in Australia related to dog attack. Death caused by human and others against humans is far more prevalent. Shark attacks caused 35 fatalities in the past 30 years. In 2002 alone there were 963 homicide related offences and 159,548 assaults in Australia.

Her study also found that Dangerous Dogs made up less than 1% of the registered Australian dog population. Over 40% of dogs in Australia are cross breeds and are not listed in the top 10 breeds of dog involved in attacks.

Pig dogs are never used to kill feral pigs and on there own do not really have the capacity to do so. They are trained and used by the hunter to find the pig in thick country and then either bail or hold the pig by the ear so that the pig can be humanely dispatched. Most pigs caught using this method are in the weight range of 40 - 100 kg, by dogs that weigh between 20 - 55 kg and with the physical make up of the pig it would be virtually impossible for the dog to kill the pig.

Dr. Seksel also states there are three key factors that determine whether a dog will be aggressive toward humans at a particular point in time.

Genetic Predisposition
Previous learning experience
Current environment

All experienced hunters when looking for a pup or dog and when breeding dogs for pig hunting look at these key factors. For their dogs to work as a team and to live with their families they require dogs that are non-human aggressive, healthy, intelligent, obedient and stable.

The vast majority of dogs featured in reports on dog attacks are not used for hunting purposes and such aggressive dogs would not be suitable for hunting as a team with other dogs and humans.

The dogs used in hunting pigs must be capable of working as a team by finding and flushing the pig from thick bush and then holding it by the ear so it can be dispatched by the hunter. A dog that shows no control and attacks and bites the pig during this process is highly undesirable as it causes undue stress on the pig and places the other dogs and handlers at risk of injury until the pig is dispatched.

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Thanks for everyones opions! Obviously I'm going to do some extensive research before we take the plunge in getting one (if they are suitable for us) as a)I don't want one hurting my family or the dog I already have and B)I don't what to rehome, or have to put one down.

LImeslice, we actually have a german shepherd already who is a gorgeous boy and wonderful around our neices and nephews, who range from 8 months to 5 years old. But as much as I trust him I would never leave him alone with them, I would never leave any dog unattended with a child.

I just have to say that although Kirsti is fantastic and I actually did some training with her, that article was about studies in 2002 and a lot has changed in the past 6 years as far as dog training, behavioural assessments and breeding. I do agree with the dogs behaviour stemming from the 3 areas, thats what makes up animal behaviour.

Bull Terriers are NOT pig dogs. They are two different breeds, two different lines... Pig Dogs are closer to Pit Bulls than Bull Terriers. If a dog is bred to attack and kill wild boars, it is in No way safe for families.

Hi Everyone, :D

I don't have one of these dogs but I have meet quite a few owners who say they are big softies, placid and trustworthly...maybe a little biased.

All of this is well and good however no dog should be trusted with children, especially dogs who are bred for anything violent, the smallest nip (no matter how intended) can cause such damage. Small dogs, big dogs...they all have teeth and look at how they play with each other.

I think that a dog can be a great companion for kids and it's good for kids to be comfortable with pets, but I also think alot of a dogs temprement is how you raise them and if you were to get a bully or pigdog AND take it hunting, not sure if it would be able to keep hunting and home life separate?

But all that said, I think these dogs are gorgeous !

I think it also depends in the way in which the dog is taught to hunt. If it is taught to hunt and kill then no I agree it is not suitable. If it is taught to pick, bail (and maybe even hold) the pig, I personally think that this is different.

Sorry I should also have pointed out that it was an older article but it gives you an idea.

Maybe if your DH is interested in hunting with a dog he could contact a humane and ethical hunting association and have a chat?

Lulu - I have been known for loving ugly things :D When I chose my first cabbage patch doll I HAD to have bald one with a scruff of hair, because I felt sorry for it :lol: everyone/thing deserves a little love, even the ugly!

DD - google pigdogs and you will see what I mean, they are trained to crawl through the bush and JUMP on the boars. They usually wear armor to do so - feral pigs have massive tusks. It's a bloodsport. Literally (ick).

In order to be a good pigdog, they must be bred big and sometimes bulky, so we are talking mastiff X's and staghounds etc.
My brother had a litter of pups stolen once and he was shattered as they were the culmination of years of breeding. He went to the neighbours and let them know the dogs were piggers, not suitable to be sold and not much use to anyone else. They reappeared magically in the backyard 2 days later......

Double post kinda... silly computer!

I understand were you are coming from Lulu, thats what I mean by it depends on the way the dog is raised to hunt. It can be raised in order to hunt and kill which I agree is horrible and I believe these dogs are in no way suitable as a family and then there are dogs that are raised to hunt in a humane and ethical way - these dogs, of course depending on the owner and lifesytle in and out of hunting can be loving family pets.

I personally believe that not all hunting dogs are feral.

I hate hearing of animals being used to hunt and fight in ways which are cruel and inhumane to themselves and other animals. I hate that the repution of some breeds are scarred because of such people.
I am passionate about bull terriers in particular but also other so called dangerous breeds as I have personally been touched by them in a loving way.

I will leave it at that now :D.

WRT to having them around kids though, it make little difference in my mind that they are taught to pick and bail anyway. A small child or baby even is lot more fragile than a wild pig. It takes a hell of a lot less to break its neck or tear into its jugular than a boar. The applied pressure to achieve an undesired result is much less than to acheive the desired result for hunting iykwim.
The fact remains that it doesnt matter how you train it to hunt, it hunts. You dont need a hunting dog around babies, particularly if the child arrives in the pack AFTER the dog.

I have just spoken with DF and he's since told me he was just giving me crap about the hunting part, because he knows how much I hate that kind of blood gore thing. It would purely be a family pet. We are on quite a bit of land that would have plenty of space for the pups to run around so that wouldn't be a problem. I'm going to have some fun having alook into these creatures I think!
If we were to get one we were aiming for a femail as our GSD is male, and we would have her de-sexed. I spoke with a breeder today just to feel my way around in regards to termperment (we probably won't actually get one for another 12 months or so yet) and she pretty much said she would refuse to sell me one because I'd have her de-sexed. Apparently alot of breeders sell them with the right to take them back off you to breed from them at least once, becuse there are limits of how many you are allowed to keep on your property at the one time, and without having this right they just wouldn't be able to keep up with breeding. Seems a bit odd to me, personally!

*brain fart*

Yeah, I'm coming from a place where my bro didn't trust his dog around people and it was penned accordingly. He was Rambo on the weekends, crawling through the bush, would 'air out' his clothes so they didn't smell like washing powder (DEAD giveaway apparently), and you were often confronted with a bug, tusky head in the freezer when you went to get ice.....
As ugly as Bull was, he was very loyal and adored my bro.


Gawd, I'm glad DF was stirring you!
Dp just said that some breeders do things like that but to watch out for your rights regarding any pups produced from your OWN dog.

GL!

Just to add some mud to the mix. I love, love, love animals. We had a bull mastiff x rod ridgeback dog, that my ex used to take pig hunting, and he was the most loverble, placid dog, you could ever meet, everyone loved him. (he died of cancer) my burmese used to cuddle and go to sleep against his stomach.

Some dogs just know home is home, and work is work. It's all about the dog and their environment.

I better add, Dr Hugh Worth from RSPCA says, no dog should be left alone with children.

Thanks everyone. I was more interested in hearing from people who had actual experiences with them, their personallity's, if they got on with other dogs etcetc. And not just opinions based on what kind of breed they are (hunting dogs etc, because at the end of the day, evey dog was a hunting dog at one stage, before they were domesticated by people). Obviously every dog to some extent is "dangerous", and should never be left un attended with a child and I have a healthy respect for that. German Shepherds used to have a bit of a reputation for themselves, and I still frequently have people making a wide birth around us when I take my pup out for walks, but I know he wouldn't hurt a soul.
Thanks heaps for everyone's stories about their bullies! They do sound like gorgeous but complex creatures.

I have a bully x, and she's a great dog. But she's a one person dog. She will acknowledge DP, as she has been on the scene for over ten years but I'm her master. And she won't play with any other animals, so socialising with other dogs is out of the question. She was chasing fully grown rottweilers off the beach at 12 weeks of age! I love my dog, but hate being constantly on the lookout for other animals when out for a walk. If another dog comes close, she'll bristle and then most likely attack. If that other dog come at her quickly and barking, then it's all on. Then again I have 2 cats and she doesn't do more than sniff them.

Yeah, fox terriers are still great little hunters, I've seen them run up trees to chase my cat and lots of people have them for family pets.
BUT my experience with pigdogs is that the 'hunter' parts of them are bred back in as hard as possible and even when my bro only had one in the backyard I couldn't go in there by myself and either could anyone else.
So if you choose a doggie NOT bred for pig or from a litter bred for hunting you should be fine.

My cuz had a bully too, he was lovely but a one man dog too!

Some dogs have had most of the hunting instincts bred out of them and some have had them reinforced so there is a world of differance between the hunting instincts of a Papillon and a pig dog. I had a pig dog once. I fell in love with her so my parents let me keep her but she ended up chasing sheep which is a big no-no in a rural area. My parents gave her away instead of putting her down and the guy they gave her to used her for pigging. Six months later I got a phone cal from out vet to let me know he had just put my beautiful girl down after she was gored by a boar :sad: If I had fallen for a miniture poodle I would have saved myself a word of heartache.
If you're going to let your DH take the family pet pigging be prepared for some nasty accidents and maybe premature death. If you look at any working pig dog you will notice that they are pretty battered.

We have a pure bred American Red Nose Pitty, and she is 100% family smoocher. Although she is hardly ever out with other dogs or people, she is friendly to everyone. We have only ever seen her rear up at another dog, who rushed at her in excitement. I trust her more with our children than our Kelpie. She is very tolerable with all dogs and people, including children of all sizes. She would be a couch potato if you let her, just anywhere that you are, she wants to be too. Yep, she's a wuss with the family, but very protective at the same time.

I wouldn't think that you could have a dog that is both a 'hunting' animal and a 'family pet'. If I had a hunting dog I would feel very uncomfortable it being around my children, supervised or not, and it would have to live in a super secure enclosure (cage basically) at the far end of the yard away from the children.

We got our dog as a young pup, and I think you can pretty much (but there are those that you couldn't) have whatever breed you like as a family dog, its just about how you bring them up. I have no idea what her parents were like. And if you google pics of these dogs, mine looks nothing like them, in terms of I think she is much more beautiful, and doesn't look quite so much like a meat head as these showy dogs.