why is my 3 month old waking at 4am almost every day?

My son is 3 months old today. He is on formula (SR26 - AR) for reflux. I try to have him on the following routine which I got the idea from the Tizzie Hall book ' Save our Sleep'.
7am - wake for bottle with Zantac (reflux medicine)
9am - down for morning sleep
11ish - bottle
1pmish - down for a sleep
3pmish - bottle with Zantac
4pmish - bath, singlet, wondersuit, and now sleeping bag and then wrap and cuddle for bed. I usually settle him in the pram so we can walk the dog after dinner. We will always have to wake him for his next feed.
9pm - bottle
Midnight - Dream feed and Zantac
BUT THIS IS WHAT MY PROBLEM IS - he starts crying at around 4am but when I go to him his eyes are closed and he still seems asleep. I put his dummy in and off to sleep he goes. Now that wouldn't worry me but then he drops his dummy and cries to have it back and this can happen every half hour or hour which is terrible for my sleep.

Question is I don't think he is hungry cause normally the dummy wouldn't satisfy him but do you thin he is hungry and I should give him a bottle? And if so will he still start his day at 7am which is important to me as I need him on a good routine as I will start back at work after Easter.

I would appreciate any advice that you can give me, as my DH and I are going nuts!

he may be going through a growth spurt and want that extra bottle. I dont think feeding him at 4 will change him waking at 7, he just might not drink as much as 7.

Thanks Hollye, I called Karatane and they suggested feeding him when he wakes up around 4am. So I will try that tonight, but I wont fuss with him by trying to change his nappy which is usually what I do before every feed as a habit. No harm in trying I guess. I just hope that I can get back to sleep after that. I may need to train myself as well.

I agree he is probably going througha growth spurt.I would give him the bottle and see if that is what he really wants.

Yes unfortunately the "Save out sleep" doesn't give way for growth spurts, bouts of illness or anything else that can cause baby to be unsettled. Its not considered a gentle method at all. Are you interested in more gentle methods or should I move this to the baby general discussion?

IMO you are putting him to bed (doing the nighttime routine) too early. 4pm seems very early to me to be starting the bedtime routine and settling down for the night. 4pm til 4am is 12 hrs so I'm not really surprised that he is waking up then.
I haven't read or know anything about 'Save our Sleep' but I would probaly be waking him, feeding and having a little play (nothing too stimulating of course) at about 7pm till about 8pm. Dropping the 9pm and midnight feeds for a 10 or 11pm dreamfeed. I would not want to have to stay up until midnight to be doing any feeds (unless it is your DH doing it) you really need to be in bed before that! I would expect to still be feeding a 3month old overnight and that may very well be at 4am! Personally we were still feeding overnight until around 7mths then we had a bad patch from about 8mths until about 9mths and now we are generally sleeping thru at 12mths!
HTH :)

If you think he needs feeding then feed him. Routines seem like a great idea but often the little ones don't want to go along with the party and are far more settle when their needs are met quickly. You're getting up at midnight for a dream feed which sort of defeats the purpose. Try the dream feed when you go to bed. They don't work for every baby.

I know you're anxious about how you're going to manage when you go back to work but you will manage. You'll just be used to getting by on less sleep :)

Thanks for comments. Yes I am very interested in a more gentle approach if anyone has any ideas. He woke up at about 3.50am this morning so I fed him and sat him up on my chest for about 10 minutes before putting him back down without his dummy, so far so good.

But I must admit I would rather give the dream feed a try at around 10-11ish and see how we go from there. Might try that one tomorrow. I guess its trial and error. But its so hard to know what to do when its your first time.

Yes puppies it is very hard to know. I know with my first I tried everything, I read all sorts of books and I tried different techniques. But she only slept for 40 minutes at a time, for 24 hours. Its exhausting and tiring but eventually she slept longer and eventually I learned to trust my instincts better and parent by instinct rather than by a book. Once I did that, I was able to relax and get on with things like work and life. Try reading some other books like "Parenting by Heart" by Pinky McKay... just for balancing different parenting books.

Another thought - this time of year it tends to get cold around 4am. That could be waking him too. But a growth spurt at 3 months is very common, so I would be trying the feed too.

I don't change nappies at night (AM hours anyway) unless they're pooey.. so yeah.. just feed without waking him up too much :)

Well I am going to try and do the dream feed at 10.30 as suggested. I last fed him at 3pm and bathed him and he has been asleep since 4pm. I will wake him in a minute for another feed and light play and then give him his dream feed at 10.30ish and see what happens.

Cross fingers this works.

Hey puppies I really hope it works for you.

One of the best pieces of advice I was given when Flynn was first born was this:

"Do not expect to get a full nights sleep for the first 12 mths"

That is not to say that you won't, just don't expect that by such and such an age they will or should be sleeping thru. I think we can put a lot of pressure on ourselves and bub by expecting that they will settle into a lovely routine and sleep thru, unfortunately that is not often the case.

Try and rest when he rests (easier said than done I know, but you really need to try) don't worry if there are things which need to be done. You will be able to tackle them more easily if you are well rested. Try and get to bed a little earlier too. I'm sure your DH can do the last dream feed or you could alternate nights? It will get easier and he will sleep thru one day.

Hope you have a good night :)

Thanks girls, well my experiment was a DISASTER! I thought I heard him make a noise at about 2.50am so I woke up and he was sound asleep. I thought well I will fed him anyway. So I did not unwrap him, I just picked him up and gave him the bottle. He was sleeping so I had to jiggle him to suck. Then the bottle went cold so he was fussing so I had to warm it up a bit more. Then he took the rest of the bottle. I sat him up for a bit until he burped and then I put him back in his cot. I went back to bed and about 4.30am he woke up crying as per usual. We decided to let him cry a bit and see what happens. So he had the pauses in his crying so I thought well he should just fall back asleep. But nope an hour later he is still crying and I can't handle it any longer. So I go to him to find him soaked in sweat so I change his nappy which was so full it weighed a tonne. I changed his clothes and his wrap and the cloth nappy that I lay on his sheet where he sleeps (saves changing sheets all the time). I gave him a few drops of Infants Friend to calm him down chucked his dummy in and rocked him back to sleep before putting him back down just now. Then I came straight to the computer to tell you all.

What am I doing wrong! It seems that my experiment has resolved nothing other than no matter what time his dream feed is or even if I feed him earlier he is still waking up at about 4am. Why is this happening? I am certainly not expecting him to sleep through although DH is. I try to explain to DH that it won't happen for some time and that we do pretty good with him at his age compared to other babies but he is just not that impressed. He does have high expectations of him which is something I have talked about with him but it seems I have not gotten through to him on that point yet.

Honestly I don't know what to do next. Any other ideas? PLEASE!

Hi puppies...the only thing I would suggest is reducing his afternoon nap to a couple of short catnaps, so he is tired for bed at 7pm.

Also, I think your baby sleeps HEAPS! So I wouldn't be too worried about doing anything wrong...you're obviously doing a lot right! You just need to tweak his routine a little bit...Maybe shorten the afternoon nap to only one sleep cycle and make sure the midday sleep is a long one...

HTH

Oh no!! It would be nice if they came with some instructions wouldn't it?! I don't think you are doing anything wrong...You have a baby and they make their own rules!!!

I don't particularly have anymore advice. I don't think I would have bothered waking him when he was asleep. I may have tried a dream feed but if he didn't take first up it I wouldn't of continued trying.

It seems as tho you may just have to get used to the idea of a 4am feed. I wonder what would've happened if you hadn't bothered to feed him at 2.50? IMO a sleep for you from say 10 - 4 is an excellent block and if you can feed him and pop him straight back to sleep you should get at least another 2 hrs. That is not too bad. IMO you could do a lot worse than one feed at 4am.

GL

It can be confusing hey! I personally wouldnt wake JD to feed him if hes sleeping. I am a big believer in babies knowing when they are hungry and letting us know when that it is, which for you would have been the 4am feeds the night before last. I dont like the routines of Tizzie Hall so cant say much there, but have you tried the bath later? We do baths at 6:30-7 where Ruby is in with me and Sammy and after all that splashing around is exhausted and sleeps til 12, has a feed and then sleeps until 5 which is just amazing!

Jo

I am happy with his routine during the day its just that one night wake that seems to have me stumped. My mum had an interesting theory. He has a very sore looking rash, irritation under his armpits and under his chin in the neck fold that is red and inflamed. I think this is due to air not getting in under these skin folds. She thinks that being wrapped with his arms closed may be irritating him enough to disturb his sleep by then. Cause when I did feed him at 4am, when he woke up it didn't make any difference he still cried and cried every time I put his dummy back in. The problem is that if I try to let him sleep without being wrapped he wakes himself up by touching his face or knocking his dummy out. I would love to not have to wrap him every time I need him to sleep.

Tonight I am going to listen to his cues again. I did not bath him now which I usually do after his afternoon bottle. I will do his bath at his next feed around 7.30 and see what happens then.

I have an appointment at the Pedi for him in a couple of weeks to check his enlarged kidney so will ask him what he thinks about all this. God its so hard, everyone has their own opinion for I guess what has worked for them, but all I can do is try everything till it works. If he fed at 4am when he wakes up crying and then settled back to sleep till 7am I would be happy but that is still not happening. Something is bothering him. Could he be teething this young? My poor little man, it makes me so sad that he could be uncomfortable even for a minute. I just want to help him. I don't care about anything else right now.

It is so hard and you are doing a great job!

In regards to the rash under his chin and arms. Flynn had this too and I put it down to not being properly dry. I used cornflour baby powder after a bath cos they make it very hard for us mummies to get in there and dry it properly. I love paw paw ointment for any kind of rashes, you could try that too.

I hope you have a better night tonight. This stage will pass, I promise.

hun DD1 was 6 months before she slept more than 2 hours at night.... then at 9 months it changeda nd at 12 months again it changed.

DD2 was much more regular, but she did it herself... and still at over 2 wakes 3 out of 7 nights at least once.

I'm replying with this as this is in the gentle parenting section

Honestly, I understand you are worried, but he sounds completely normal...actually much better than normal at 3 months old. I have four kids, and none of them were ever sleeping those long blocks of sleep, still aren't.

One big thing I've learned after having this many kids is this: something like this, is only a problem if you feel it's a problem. ONce I relaxed and just accepted what will be for now, it stopped being a problem. The best thing you can do right now is to go with the flow, your baby is waking up because that's just him right now and this is just his unsettled period. Most babies have an unsettled period in the day, this might be just his right now. I think he's doing absolutely brilliantly for his age. And I don't know if understood it correctly, but CIO at his age is really not advisable.

If this unsettled period is disturbing your sleep, have you thought of either, setting up a bed in his room where you can lie down and reach over to tend to him when he is unsettled, ie puttin ghis dummy back in. Or have him in your room and do the same. Or even have him in your bed from 4am onwards. Seriously, I would have never ever slept without co sleeping LOL.

He's doing so well, and I think I would almost be worried if he didn't have an unsettled period in a day! the problem with routines when a baby is so young is that it doesn't allow for anything that might throw it, ie sickness, or even personality, and when things dont' go to plan, ti's very upsetting and unsettling for the parents.

I think just relaxing, let him do what he needs to do and think of ways around that to help you if you aren't coping, rather than trying to do whatever you can to get him to sleep those few extra hours, just do what you need to do to deal with his unsettled period and probably accept this is just him right now.

Good luck xx

Well after his dream feed which I think DH did at midnight, he did not start winging till 4.10am so I went in and put his dummy in and then went into the kitchen to heat up his bottle. When I cam back in he was sound asleep. My gut instinct was to leave him there, if he was hungry he would be squirming and winging. So I sat and watched him for a while and decided to leave him and go back to bed. Of course then I couldn't sleep cause I was thinking about him, so I got up and have been doing some work. He is the next room to my office and he is pretty quiet other than the odd sleep sound babies make. He dropped his dummy once which made him winge so I put it back in and he has been fine since. Its now 6am so in another hour he is due for his morning feed anyway.

Not sure what all this means. Perhaps he has some movement in his gums that enough to disturb him when he is moving from one sleep cycle to the next... he is dribbling heaps and chomping on his fists a lot.

Your right Aranah, I seriously think your right. We won't see this as a problem if we just accept that this is what he will do. I will chat to DH when he gets up about perhaps adjusting our attitude a bit. He is a wonderful little boy and I am very impressed with his manner.

As for co-sleeping, I tried that and I certainly couldn't sleep cause all his sleep noises kept me awake. He grunts, groans, squeels and often laughs. He is very noisey. I would love to be snuggled up to him so I could smell him and feel him but that wont help me sleep I am afraid. So for now I think I will just end up sleeping on the lounge after he wakes at around 4am so I am not disturbing DH sleep when he drops his dummy.

Thanks again for all your encouragement and positive comments. Sometimes you really don't know what the norm is and it make sit hard to know where you are at until someone explains it to you.

I took JD to the Dr this morning to have a look at his skin irritation and he said he has excema and the skin under the arm pits is infected and he prescribed an antibiotic cream. I applied it this afternoon and about 30 minutes later he was screaming uncontrollably like I have never seen before. I tried Panadol and that did nothing. I put him the bath and tried to wash the cream off. He cried and cried and so did I. Once I had dried him and put his wondersuit on and wrapped him and rocked him for a while he finally calmed down and went to sleep and is still asleep.

I feel so terrible. I thought I was doing the right thin by taking him to the Dr and getting him the cream and I only made it worse. I feel like such a terrible mother. I just want to sleep with him tonight now cause I can't bare to be away from him.

hun it is really hard and you sound really stressed. I know for the first year of DD1's life it was awful. She screamed alot. In fact, she had silent reflux... when she turned 3 we found that she had a severe milk allergy which caused the reflux. We found out because DD2 had ezcema and we found out was allergic to cows milk... so an elimination diet and yep... cows milk it was for our family.

I wasn't to know when DD1 was a baby, there wasn't much else so I followed GP's and paediatrician advice. I stopped breastfeeding, I tried co-sleeping, I tried CC, I was desperate to get more than 40 minutes sleep. Its hard, and its easy to blame yourself, but you can only follow the advice given to you or trust your instincts... hun keep listening to yourself and what you think is right. :hug:

How are you going puppies? Hopefully things have settled down for you and you are getting more sleep - it's really hard work trying to settle in with a new baby. My DD1 was a shocking sleeper and I really felt that it was something I was doing wrong and tried every suggestion/routine I could - but all that did was mean I felt worse. She is almost 3 and is still not sleeping through (sorry - but she is also not the only one!). I am just doing what she needs as things come up - hugs and resettle etc.

DD2 is a completely different baby - a sleeping machine! But we have ignored all books/advice and tried to fit with her cues rather than a prescribed routine. I also go to bed ASAP after everyone is asleep rather than stay up later - poor DH is a bit ignored but it's only for a short time.

Your baby is very lucky to have such a concerned and caring Mum - make sure you look after yourself and celebrate your successes. I really regret getting caught up in comparing myself and DD1 to others experiences instead of just enjoying those early days together.

Let us know how you are doing...