Lets clarify the bulldog/pitbull/bull terrier situation.

Well don't look at me!

I thought we could all get together and sort out the differences. They are all often mixed up and some ARE to be worried about, some arent.

Ok so we have

Staffordshire Bull Terrier - American version is big, English is smaller. Very stocky dogs, big heads and silly grins.

Pitbulls - includes American Pit Bull, Red Nose Pit Bull - these are banned.

Bull Terrier - pointy ears, long fat nose generally white or pied

Bulldogs - English bulldogs - squashed in faces, big smiles. French Bulldogs, smaller version?


Don't take any of this as gospel, just my surface knowledge.

I know for ages that Staffies were often mixed up with American Pit Bulls, my family nearly died when I got mine but they know better now.

So feel free to add, refute or clarify anything here!

My understanding is that the pit-bull and american staffordshire terrier are from the same stock but the breeds have become seperate over time. In the US some dogs are dual registered as both Pit Bulls and American staffies. I think that the Pit Bull peeps will accept dogs that are kennel club rego but not vice-versa.
There is also an American bulldog that is like a taller more athletic version of the English bulldog (which frankly has been bred to a kind of silly point).
There is also a Boston Terrier that is a lovely type of bull breed that is small and perky but they are quite rare in Australia :(

There's also the good ole aussie pig dog which is probably one of the only breeds that is still evolving - probably because they are actually bred to work and not recognised by any kennel club. Some of them are lovely some of them are dreadful.

They're all big gorgeous boofas lol.

ETA - There are some people breeding miniture bull terriers now. They are uber-cute. I wantz one.
ETA 2 - here is a picture of a mini and a standard for comparison.

I think I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that all creatures that come out of Staffordshire are charming, friendly, funny and wag their tails a lot.

BTW, I am from Staffordshire ;)

I love Staffies. My fave breed.
Then Bull Mastiff :)

My expereience with staffies are the small stocky ones and they are incredibly friendly and great with children. They are easily stolen though cause they go to anyone.
My experience with pure bred american pitbulls are good as well (this dog was papered, came from america and and it's papers were about an arm long). He wouldn't any human, my blue cattle dogs bit more people then he did :redface: Although I wouldn't trust him with another animal.

I think the problem comes from cross breeding and how they are brought up. I would hate to see what a pitt bull cross blue cattle dog would be like for instance too much power with too much brain/cunning.

When I was very little we had a Staffie and from the stories my dad tells he was the perfect dog for a small child. Apparently when I was two or three I would delight in hitting him over the head with my tonka toys in the sandpit. He'd put up with it and never threatened me. But, after I was done playing in the sandpit apparently he would ever so gently nick the back of my sandals to trip me over :lol: that was his revenge!

njd I think you make a very good point about how the way a dog is brought up affects their temperment, particularly in the case of American pit bulls. My brother in law has one, who hasn't been de-sexed (but that's another story). He's a lovely dog, who is incredibly friendly. But I am still terrified of him, mostly because of the incredible strength that is displayed with every movement he makes. But also because of the way my BIL looks after him. Being a young dog he is into everything and if left alone will destroy the house, so my BIL puts him in a cage when he goes to work or goes out. I personally think that this unacceptable.

Many people purchase dogs like american pit bulls, when they shouldn't because their lifestyle isn't suited to the breeds characteristics. When owners keep these highly active animals in cages or chained up all the time, I think they are slowly creating animals that will eventually become aggressive. I believe that like any breed, if an american pit bull is kept stimulated and shown love and affection the liklihood of it becoming aggressive is probably about the same as a labrador.

having worked in a vets / boarding /pound I have seen many a dog come though...

we had some pitties who where going though court coz the attacted someone and killed this persons dog.... but they were the sweetest dogs ever always full of love, sadly the way the owner had treaded them ( they were bred for dog fights ) they could not be near any other dogs...

I have seen so many lovely pitty's and staffy's... Its just they fact that they have lock jaw that you have to really watch them as if they do choose to turn on you or another dog ( which is normally the case and then the owners will do something silly like try to pull them apart and this is when the person gets a bite ) they can and will lock their jaw then you cant get them to let go....

to tell you the truth the only does I was every weary of were the cattle dogs they only like their owner and will bite first and think later, I personally think they should stay on the farms where they are meant to be.... and the little rat dogs, it seems the smaller the dog the more likely the little bugger would bite me.... the werid thing is if they do bite you and the owner is there they always just laugh it off almost like it didnt happen, just coz they are small, then of course the silly buggers would just pick their rat dogs up :rolleyes: giving the dog what it wanted a reward for biting me....

I have a little rat dog and she is the most amazingly gentle little person. She puts up with all sorts from my children and our vet loves her because when she boards with him she is so friendly and tolerant of other dogs.
Most fluffy whites are lovely, it is just a minority that are nasty biters.

whatsa rat dog?

I love staffies!!! They have such a great smile!!!

sorry I dont mean to say that all rat dogs are mean and nasty just that I was only ever bitten by they and never the big bad pit bulls...

sorry bad name I call them :redface: by Rat dog I mean cha ( shoot I cant spell their names to save myself hence why I call them rat dogs :rolleyes:) you know all the " IT " girls have them in a bag....

I am sure as with all breds there are good and bad just like humans really...

Tali- do you mean chawuwahs (sp?)

yep Stupid name its so hard to work out how to spell it....

Some Chi's are nice but they can be a bit over-protective. I went to scholl with a girl who owned one that scared me rigid lol.
I've always thought a rat dog was any of the small, ankle high dogs.
How did we get from boofas to rats lol?

i agree!

FWIW I think the thingg is that if you get bitten by a little fluffy dog (AKA a rat) chances are you will have some nasty scars but you will live to tell the tale but if you get bitten by a big mastif kind of dog you just might get killed.
That's one of the reasons that I got a small dog. I think that any dog will bite if it is pushed too far so I may as well have one that won't do to much harm if it is pushed beyond tolerance.
Then again bull terriers and bull dogs have high pain thresholds so their tolerance may be greater.

Aaah, I geddit. I was kind of hoping that it was a typo and you actually had a catdog. I'd like one of those.

Chi's are mental, they scare the bejaysus outta me too. DS went to pat one the other day but I collared him before he got to it - the owner didn't mind when I told him they can be a bit mental cos she agreed.

I have a female staffy named Staffy lol Im so imaginitive but Id have to say the best dog Ive ever owned would have to be a rednose Pitty named Tank. Unfortunately due to council laws in brisbane he was taken from us and given a "pitbull test" where they do allsorts of tests on him to verify that he is a pitbull and not an american staffy and when the test came back positive we had the choice of relocating him so we brought him an airfare to Sydney where he stays with family now. Staffys are from the same bloodline as pitbulls and have the same characteristics just no where near as much game.

better than ANOTHER staffy called Tyson...!

warning about to go off topic a little....


The thing that really annoys me is when I am out walking my dog ( a G shep ) people with little yapper whos dogs is carring on like a bannch trying to get to my dog... when walk past me or see me coming will pick up there little dogs and then give me the look of death if Jeda even sniffs there way while we walk past....

Ok I get that she is big and I am not so big, so it might not look like I have much control ( to be truthful if she decided to run or " go " something I proberly not be able to hold her back ) but she wouldnt hurt a fly, she is the biggest sook of a dog... I always have DD2 with me ( if not all of the winkies ) so they can see she must be a family dog but still they look at me like I have the evil dog....

I know its the same for owners of staffys as well...

I used to have a rottyx and I could only walk her if she was on a holtiy ( as she was the same weight as me :redface:) as they were new on the market people would think it was a muzzle **** it was funny to see peoples faces when we walked by :lol: But hey my BHL is always away and living in sydney she made me feel safe... can tell you she came in handy when the neighbours were robed.... my house didnt get touched ;)

OK back on topic BHL wouldnt mind a 2nd dog soon and we are thinking a staffy ( well he wants one ) I told him as long as I can dress it up I dont care:lol: now that would be a scream

Tali I know where your coming from, I gave up taking her to the beach for that same reason.

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Aaah, I geddit. I was kind of hoping that it was a typo and you actually had a catdog. I'd like one of those.

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Try a Siamese or a Tibetan Spaniel :p

i've got little "rat dogs" (for what it's worth, it's spelt chihuahua!) - they're actually Chi cross. they are the most beautiful natured dogs. we also have a cattle dog (used to have four) and they have been trained very well so behave beautifully - i have no issue with having them around kids at all. the one we have left now, Jack, we mostly keep chained when other people are around now - not that he's a dangerous animal, but he's older, and starting to think he's a puppy again so gets very jumpy around other people which can be frightening.

i don't have any issue with people having dogs taht are well looked after and well trained. i can't walk my dogs outside our yard though as there is a black staffy around that is NOT trained or controlled at all, and will attack other animals at every opportunity. it saddens me, esp given this dog was responsible for the death of one of our rabbits! i don't blame the dog - i blame the owners for not being responsible owners!

my dogs have been attacked by people being unable to control their own dogs in the past, when living in another town - a very boisterous lab, which didn't hurt them just scared them, and a doberman - this one peeved me big time - the owner, instead of admitting she was unable to control her dog, said "well if you had real dogs instead of rats..." hmmmm. if i'd had an uncontrolled larger dog like hers, rather than a well controlled pair of "rats" that i literally picked up by their leads (they use harnesses, not collars) it could have been very nasty!

pet ownership (no matter the breed) - means being responsible and having your pet trained and ensuring it is safe to be around. i tend to discourage children from being even with my little dogs unless there is an adult there - my girls are used to kids being around, but are shy and will hide until they get comfy with the people they're with - most younger kids will try to get them to come out of hiding - and this is where it poses a threat of them turning nasty out of fear (they haven't yet, but it's something i watch for all the time). having said that, i say the same about my cat! he's not used to kids and does get very upset at being harrassed so i tell the kids to let him come to them - don't pursue him cos he'll just hide!


sorry - lotsa waffle there! our next dog will probably be a purebred kelpie or a blue heeler. we DO live in town, but DH works with cattle and used to train dogs for working when he was breeding huntaway/kelpie cross pups. he wants to train one as a protective dog for around here seeing he's away so much, and one to take with him in the truck. he takes a long time to pick dogs based on personality of the parents and of the pup though so i trust him to make sure our dogs are safe for us...

Pittys are not banned everywhere (in some councils/states they may be, but not in Victoria). In Victoria they are a restricted breed. To find out the conditions of restricted breeds, google "restricted breed conditions victoria" (or whatever state you are in), and there is a vic gov website about what you need to know. Its a bit long for me to transcribe here.

Otherwise, I have already said my piece about how I feel for these beautiful dogs, and rat dogs (shudder)... And if I could figure out how to put a photo in a gallery, then I'd post one of my daughter sitting between my dogs (a red nose and a kelpie). ETA: Never mind about the photo. Since I'm not a paid member, I don't think I can do it anyway.

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Pittys are not banned everywhere (in some councils/states they may be, but not in Victoria). In Victoria they are a restricted breed. To find out the conditions of restricted breeds, google "restricted breed conditions victoria" (or whatever state you are in), and there is a vic gov website about what you need to know. Its a bit long for me to transcribe here.

Otherwise, I have already said my piece about how I feel for these beautiful dogs, and rat dogs (shudder)... And if I could figure out how to put a photo in a gallery, then I'd post one of my daughter sitting between my dogs (a red nose and a kelpie). ETA: Never mind about the photo. Since I'm not a paid member, I don't think I can do it anyway.

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In NSW a restricted breed dog has to be desexed so in a generation or so they should be eliminated. They also have to be kept in an enclosure or on a lead at all times. IMO it's kinder not to keep a dog under those conditions. TBH I don't think that the pit bull will be a great loss to the canine population. There might be lovely pitties but their role as the dog of choice for violent, criminally inclined bogans means that far too many of them have been allowed to become nasty dogs of the worst kind.

I'm not sure why you would shudder at rat dogs. There are all sorts of dogs out there that suit all sorts of lifestyles. A big athletic dog is hardly the ideal companion for an elderly lady with mobility issues who wants a lap dog for company. They're all real dogs.

Well thanks LuLu for this thread- coz it was getting a little confusing re all the diff breeds.

Going back to another thread though- are the bull terriors the ones considered "Pig Dogs" ? I ask coz i have a bull terrier (she is a roman nose- the nose nose is slightly pointier than a normal bull terrior and she is caramal coloured- so i dont think she is 100% pure- though DH says she is)- long story we actually found her about 7 years ago while on holiday- she appeared to have been running away from pups as she had milk coming out and we put up posters and took her to vet (no chip) and actually staye din the town for a week longer than planned to try and find her owners but had no luck- so we kept her and called her Karma!

ANYWAY... i have had people tell me she is a pig dog- (not by her temperamenrt or anything like that - just from her look) and i guess many breeds can be used for pigging, but she is quite small- so i just wasnt sure.

As an owner of a bull terrior- i agree with pain threshold thing in regard to kids- my dogs have been great with shane and love getting pats and their ears pulled- to them its just more attention- doesnt hurt at all!!

Oh and usually i think rat dogs are cute- like mini little dogs lol but i dont htink iwould ever get one- i had a friedn at school who had a mini terrior thing who was just vicious as, but i have a friend now who has a choo- thing cross with something and its gorgeous and sweet and doesnt act like a crazy little dog at all!!

The restrictions for the pittys are the same here in Vic, it was just so long (double sided a4 brochure) I figured if people really want to know what it said, they can look. I hope that doesn't come across in a rude way, its really not supposed to. I don't agree that any dog should be kept under these conditions, and to be perfectly honest, ours isn't. Yes, it IS in a secure yard, but shouldn't every dog be? Big, little, fluffy or restricted? We don't have the big sign out the front that says restricted dog on premises, because in our opinion, we may as well wave a big flag to all the numbskulls that want that kind of dog, saying "here's one, come and get it!". Then, our family dog would be stolen, and be treated cruely. We know we should have a sign, we choose not to. She is desexed, but not because she needs to be as a restricted dog, but because she doesn't need to be a full dog. She doesn't need to come on heat for no reason, being that we have no intention of breeding her (whether legal or not), as there are more than enough dogs (of all kinds) out there as it is. All of our dogs have been from the pound or needed new homes for some reason or another.
I accept your opinion on pitties and rat/lap dogs brontide. I just don't like very small dogs. I haven't met one that I feel very comfortable with, or hasn't shown a really nasty streak. I know they are all real dogs.

We have a staffy and we get annoyed when we go to the beach etc that people will walk away from us, maybe like you were saying everchange, in the fear that she may attack someone or an animal or we have no control? It is a shame because she is a very timid dog and likes other dogs and puppies and dogs should be socialised. We also have a rat type dog and she is vicious yet people let there kids run up and grab her (generally we keep her on the lead because she can be snappy) but are so afraid and 'keep away from that dog' but go poke the snappy biter. Go figure!

growing up i was always scared of my friend staffy! - probably as my memory of her was trying to jump on my lap and all i could see was her big toothy smile!

When i moved to aus we got a boxer, DH family had always had them. Ours was a big softy, very long legs and a big clown. (he has passed now and missed every day)but i would find often people were scared of him, i respected their fear and always kept him either on a lead near them or put him outside when they visited!

BIL has a Australian bull dog, i prefer the American as they are slightly taller and less snouty

I wanted to get a french bulldog a few years later but found that they were rather $$$$. we opted to get a rescue dog instead and now have our pugX you may call him a rat dog but he thinks he is the size of a G dame! he loves other dogs the bigger the better and is great around children!

One day on the decking i caught my nephew pulling out my dogs stitches!!! while he lay back seeming to enjoy every min!

I do believe that any bread of dog can be 'dangerous' its just some have been given a bad rap over the years and possibly used as mascots for the wrong reasons? (again like BG says it can come down to the owner) It was only the other day i stopped as a dog was on the road and was hopping to find its owner, but was chased down the street by it yapping at my heels! (i don't do well with dogs that i don't know, but couldn't live with the thought it might be hurt).

Staffys and pitbulls scare the hell outta me. But then so do rottys. Why? Because I have seen them rip to shreds other peoples dogs on my front yard here on 3 occasions, 2 different staffies and one pitbull cross something, and a cat (in my childhood home in Adelaide) by a staffy.

I think the difference is that you get bitten by some little yappy ankle biter, you have a sore hand or whatever for a week, you get attacked by a staffy or pittbull then you might possibly die (especially if it's a child).

I watched the dumbfounded owner of the staffy that was ripping a ridgeback whatever on the face, try to pry it off it, it wasn't raised nasty, the other dog was tied up and doing nothing wrong. It just snapped and the owner put it down (I know the guy) like he should have. They are a vicious breed, they have been bread over the many years they have been around as FIGHTING dogs. They have a death grip and wont let go.

I know there are many that are placid nice dogs. I have met some myself but I would never trust them because I have seen the damage they can do. Unfortunately so have my boys for only a minute but they are terrified of dogs now.

IMO I don't trust any dog. I never will. The simple fact is that you just can't. No matter the dog there's always a chance they will attack. Call it survival instincts or what ever, no dog should be left alone with children. Especially with other dogs around.
I've owned a few different types of dogs. But mostly 'big' dogs. Bull mastiff x Great Dane, staffy's, wolf hounds. I love these type of dogs. When we have dogs we have them for 2 reasons. 1, as a pet, 2, for protection. We don't train our dogs to be savage or anything, we just know that people are much less likely to enter our yard with those types of dogs.
And they are great dogs. Bull Mastiff's & Staffy's are my 2 all time faves. Staffy's are so beautiful & friendly. They love people, ours now lives with another family & thinks he is people, lol!

With regards to 'ratdogs' I'm not a fan, but it depends on the dog. My parents have a Jack Russell. He & DS are best mates. He will let Jesse take things out of his mouth, then give them back. (Jesse's even taken food out of his mouth & had a taste, lol) We still watch them every second JIC, but he's not a bad dog.
I still say he's ugly & I hate small dogs etc, but as Dad likes to point out to me, I am the only one with a 'pet' name for him, lol. His name is Wally, I call him Grommit.

TBH, I love those types of dogs, & choose to have them. DH would love an American Pit Bull, but I'm not a huge fan. Its the only one I've never wanted having kids. Staffy's & Bull Mastiff x Great Dane's are my faves. (BM x GD as we had quite a few as kids & I had one myself til she had to be put down after a fire accident last year. Still miss her so much. She was beautiful.)

I am a registered breeder of Boxers, i DO NOT trust any of my dogs, i will never trust any of my dogs, for the simple fact they are an animal, animals can turn at ANY time regardless if they are your baby, your family pet.
I have seen it happen to a disabled lady in a wheelchair who bred/showed Rotties...her 3 'house' dogs mauled her to death, and these were dogs she trusted.

For what its worth....it's NOT an English Bulldog...it's a British Bulldog :)

As far as i am aware...Australian bulldogs (which are a cross breed) are not a registered breed thus NOT purebred.

Thats right Pitties are not actually 'banned' as such..they have been banned from 'further importation into the country, they are simply now a restricted breed. They ahve been banned from being imported since 1991.

i love staffys iv got a staff jake...my mums got one as well (my bro found him in a park lol) mickey...they are brilliant with kids.
xx

We've got a staffie and she's beautiful- a bit hyperactive, but a lovely nature and she is great with ds. I agree with what others said about people walking away from you in public- but on the up side, just as many people come up to us and have a pat and say what a gorgeous dog she is.

I don't mind lap dogs as such, but I really hate high pitched constant barking, which they have a tendency to do, so they're not for me :)

Dh actually wanted a red nose pittie instead of a staffie but I put my foot down... they really scare me. I agree that you never trust a dog, especially around kids, but there is somthing about rednose pitties that I really, really don't like.

And Brontide- that miniture terrier is soooo cute... like a lap dog and a big dog rolled into one ;)