Feeling let down :(

Some of you may have read other threads of mine and will know my DS is not such a great sleeper. We have patches of good nights but rarely do we make it through a whole night without being resettled in mummys arms or bed. To begin with it wasn;t a problem for me but now i am back at work three days a week and he is almost one and i am scared of forming "bad" habits not to mention exhausted.
So thinking i was being proactive and responsible i contact our local sleep settling clinic for some help and maybe a day stay or home visit. my MCH nurse has suggested way too many times to let him cry it out but i just can't and honestly i thought there would be more options. BUT apparantly not basically thats all they told me they do i feel so let down i could just cry and cry. I rang for help and some options that didn't involve letting my little man cry his heart out.
I don't want to let my baby scream to sleep but i am not functioning after being up so many times during the night I am petrified of falling asleep on the way home while im driving.
Has anyone had success with controlled crying and how did you get over the guilt or has anyone got other ideas or methods that work.
this thread is not for judging what others do or don't do but i genuinely want to hear all ideas please post what you have done for your children.

TIA Kim xxx

Oh Hugs hun... its aweful isnt it... I'm sure there are many mums on here that sympathise with you...

Have u tried a sling to help settle him down???

I did controlled crying with my DD... every sleep school recommended it and i was sick of trying and failing... Its very hard to hear ur baby crying. Our problem was feeding to sleep. DD depended on it. when we started i cried while she did... It broke my heart. i used to get the routone started by dinner, bath, massage dressed, story cuddle feed and into cot. same every night. i would put her down put on her music not look at her not talk and walk out. i would then be so sad i would have to check the mail or bring washing in or something to get away for those 1st 2 mins...

If u dont want to do controlled crying i'm sure there will be plenty of people here to give u ideas... But i found once DD learnt to fall asleep by herself things started getting easier.

GL...

I'm sorry Kimmy, i don't have any advice, just wanted to come and give you a :hug: My little man was born on the same day as yours...and he is still waking twice a night, I just give him a quick comfort feed on the boob and he goes back to sleep. BUT I don't have to go to work like you do, you must be very tired. :hug:

You poor thing. It is so draining not getting a proper nights sleep AND having to work on top of that (I can only imagine how hard that is, it's hard enough staying at home).
I only let him cry it out when he is past it. For me that means he is not happy being cuddled and I can't cope with the screaming/crying anymore. So I pop him into the cot ( and usually close the door) and give him and me a chance to calm down (I know it is supposed to be even more stressful crying but when he is crying either way what difference does it make) and he usually falls asleep in 2 or 3 minutes (this is usually only during the day tho)
Are you feeding him when he wakes overnight? I found that I had to go back to feedng Flynn overnight when he was between 10 and 11 mths. He would just not resettle otherwise.
I don't really know what else to suggest. Have you tried or is co sleeping an option? I got to the point where if he woke more than once overnight I would just bring him into bed with us. I find it much less draining to comfort etc when I'm lying down.
We still use a dummy and generally if he wakes overnight he just needs his dummy put back in and he is straight back to sleep.
Personally I have never done CC overnight, usually if he is really unsettled DH deals with him (he has the knack...seriously he's amazing!) I think it would be too stressful.
Hope you have a breakthrough soon. :hug:

KimmyF - not sure if it will help you but we found our DD had food intolerances. We had our GP put DD at 6mths on phenergun to sedate her which I refused to do, it wasn't until she was 15mth when a friend suggested we do an elimination diet. Her sleeping improved dramatically within 3-5days

Before

bedtime routine
Dinner, bath, bottle/BF, story, rocking
She would be very hard to settle, she seemed hypo and her arms and legs were always moving.
DD would wake 15-20 min later and then every 5-15min until midnight when she would sleep for about 2-3hrs wake again BF, sleep for 2-3 hrs wake for BF and this would continue until she was awake around 8-9am

She would nap for 20-40 mins 2-3 times a day it was draining and I was at my wits end.

Now on a salcilyate free diet she sleeps from 7:30 until 2-4am when she might wake or 60-70% of the time she sleeps through until 6:30

Check out the website fedup for more info on food intollerances. Not sure if it relates to your situation but it made a huge difference to us, I had no idea food could effect sleep so much.

I do modified CC, I call it "whinge it out" rather than cry it out. I let DS whinge and carry on like a pork chop when I think its necessary, but if he gets into serious crying or what I call a "state" then I get him up, calm him down and we try again. My reasoning behind this is that once he crosses a certain line, even if he did fall asleep, he hasn't actually learned to settle himself. He's only worn himself out from bawling and/or given up, neither of which really get you anywhere. But as long as he's just whinging or mildly crying, I will let him go if its a habit I really need to break (like waking at midnight for no real reason, grr). Only you can know where the line is for you and your LO- what constitutes whinging and what constitutes serious crying.

This method has worked for us so far, although it may well not work for everyone or work for us forever- I dread the day when Peter realises all he has to do is really cry in order for him to get up!

If you are looking for different methods, Elizabeth Pantly's "No Cry Sleep Solution" is supposed to be awesome.

[QUOTE=amberj;1747608]I do modified CC, I call it "whinge it out" rather than cry it out. I let DS whinge and carry on like a pork chop when I think its necessary, but if he gets into serious crying or what I call a "state" then I get him up, calm him down and we try again. My reasoning behind this is that once he crosses a certain line, even if he did fall asleep, he hasn't actually learned to settle himself. He's only worn himself out from bawling and/or given up, neither of which really get you anywhere. But as long as he's just whinging or mildly crying, I will let him go if its a habit I really need to break (like waking at midnight for no real reason, grr). Only you can know where the line is for you and your LO- what constitutes whinging and what constitutes serious crying.

QUOTE]

I do a similat thing.
Once she starts to cross that line, i go in not make eye contact, put her back in the right position in her her bed standing there for about 30 sec touching her then walk out of the room. Through the whole process i don't talk to her. It takes some perserverance (sp?)and i could be up 4 or 5 times in a space of 15 mins but over time she is learning that we are still here, and everything is ok and she can go back to sleep.
I also leave a bottle of water in her cot with her. Sometimes she just finds that has some the drink and goes back to sleep without us going in. Shes just thirsty not actually hungry.

I'm working 3 days a week also, and while i'm finding this a little draining at the moment, its working so hopefully in another week or so she'll be sleeping longer

HTH . Hugs
xx

I am also in the amberj and jennjorja camp and I would have written advice for you pretty much word for word.

As much as I believe in gentle parenting, my attempts to be fully gentle with our sleep settling began to turn into a really nightmarish situation over the course of a few months. I found that the more I settled with cuddles, bf, rocking etc the more DD became dependent on it to the detriment of both of our sleep. DD ended up waking more and more needing me to resettle.I know what you mean by saying "To begin with it wasn't a problem for me but now..." as this is exactly how I felt too. Like you, I don't believe in CC but I got to the point of needing to try anything as I was absolutely losing my sanity. (And I didn't even have to go back to work). I was lucky in that the sleep school I attended were not necessarily CC advocates so I really benefited from their advice.

I really try to pay attention to the different types of crying. AmberJ and Jennjorja describe it well as winging vs crying. Like those lovely ladies, I keep going in to settle my DD when she is upset to let her know I am there, can hear her, understand her needs but that she still needs to go to sleep. I make our exchanges very simple, non-stimulating events and simple re-establish that she should lie down and go to sleep. I use a cue word, "shhh, sleepy time my girl" and just go in as often as needed. If she gets too upset, I will sit in the room with her. This really worked for me and I went from a really terrible sleep pattern to a real solution. These days, if she is unsettled (Often due to teething) I can use the sleep cue and one or two settles and she gets the drift really quickly.

The biggest bit of advice I would offer though is consistency. When we made an effort to sort out DDs sleep, I had to commit to a week of pretty rough nights. I was really solid in the decision to fix this up, was as calm as I could possibly be and kept the knowledge that when we sorted this out it would all be easier. I would get out of bed when she woke in the night, put the kettle on to make myself comfortable, the internet or tv on to distract me and just focused on calmly resettling DD. This way I was not slipping back into bed between settles and gnashing my teeth every time she stirred. I just kept up the pattern.

• walk in saying shhhh, sleepy time my girl
• place DD back down in her cot with comfort blanket
• no eye contact but continuing to say sleep cue quietly
• pat on back for a sec
• walk straight out again
• repeat every few minutes or when she got worked up

With the tea and net I coped more easily.

It did take a few nights... but... even in the first night I saw signs that she 'got' what was going on. By the third night we were going really well.

Everyone's situations are a little different but I hope that you can find something that helps here. If you have any more questions please let me know.... I remember how bad it can be with sleep deprivation at this age so I hope I can help.

All I want to say is that I am SOOOO on the whinge it out-train, you have no idea. I'm kicking myself for not doing this to dd.

Hun do this NOW, while she is small, in a cot and can't get out of bed. I am currently suffering my butt off with a 2 year old that don't go to sleep on her own, needs her dad (or mom) to lay next to her to get her to sleep (she even had us both in bed with her last night, granted she is sick, but I saw the worst in it) and she still gets up in the night to come and get into bed with us. We don't mind the co-sleeping, but I would LOVE for her to be able to go to sleep on her own (no tanties, crying and yelling) and STAY in her bed till morning. *sigh*

So hun, if you need to do a bit of controlled controlled crying, do it NOW. It does not get better, it gets worse. It does not make you a bad mother!!!

From
EndOfHerWitsMommy :redface:

I agree with the "whinge it out" way.

I did it much earlier than my friends who went on to have terrible troubles. I recomend sooner rather than later.

I do the whole routine: tea, play, bath, book, bottle, cuddle, goodnight everyone, bed. I always rub her tum a few times and say they same thing "good night darling, have a good sleep" then turn and walk out without looking back.
If we are out in the evening we still do bottle, cuddle, goodnight everyone, bed. That seems to be enough.

Sometimes there are nights when DD is teething or overtired and gets upset with the idea. She will stand up in her cot before I even get out the room, there are tears and pleading to be picked up. I just stay calm, lay her down repeatedly till she stays there long enough to do the tummy rub and say my line. I have had nights when I've done it 20 times before she gives in. The key is to be consistant and calm. The calm bit I learned from experience on bad nights when I got cranky: it was much worse.

Hope things improve quickly for you!!!! let us know how you go.

sooner than later is the best option
it only turns into a nightmare as they get older whinge it out call it what you like (controlled crying) it does work thats why all the sleeping schools use the same method its the old saying sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind, not thats its cruel anyway it works

Ladies... you are so hard on yourselves!

CIO and letting a bub grizzle is totaaaaalllly different!

I had many friends and a few AP'ers who heard DS grizzle when I put him down, I would shoosh him and stroke his head (he was fully wrapped, plugged and classical mobile playing) and walk out when he was quiet. He would grizzle 2 minutes at the most, unless it was a "bad day" and then I'd go back in and do it all again. If he was obviously upset I'd pick him up and rock him till he settled (not asleep) then put him back in the cot and try again. The thing is I tried cuddle/rock/hold/feed to sleep and it went on for 3 hours, with the settle to sleep (as I like to call it rather than Whinge it out :p) he would be asleep in at most 25 mins at least 5 mins. Every baby is different, some babies NEED close attachment, some babies need their own space. My very close gf had a wee lad who needed cuddles and rocks and everything, and now she has a wee lass who has practically put herself to sleep bar a few whinges and bad nights since she was born.

The most important thing IMO for a child younger than 8 months is for them to know that they are secure and that you are there for them when they need you. Once they are reassured of this in most cases they are ok ;) I say most coz I know quite a few bubbies who don't sleep well till 2 and up. And you know your child, their cues and what they need.

Thanks everyone for you support and information, i tried it tonight and so far so good, i gave him a BF we had a snuggle on the couch took him in to bed laid him down gave him his wrap and dummy and a kiss stroked his forehead a few times told him I loved him and to sleep well and i walked out. As i expected he started to cry but not as bad as i thought he would he cried for about 10 mins at one point i was going to back in and he started to slow down and get quieter but within ten minutes he was alseep, so fingers crossed it will improve.
Can anyone tell me was the second night worse because bub knew what was happening?

They say it gets worse at about day 6 & 7, but that you should NOT GIVE IN THEN ... after that :dunno: I hope for your sake he's "trained" then :)

Everyday for us are day one atm :lol:

So glad for you Kimmy, that is fantastic! It is such a beautiful thing when you can help them settle reasonably calmly and it sounds like you got it exactly right tonight.

With regards to your question, as Niliac said, each child is different. I love the post that Niliac wrote earlier, she has explained things really really well ;). For us it got easier each night as DD seemed to realise what was going on and went with it however some babies certainly will try to fight it and may make things more challenging as they work it out. (You can try to look on the bright side.... this means that you have a bright spark of a DS if he has worked out what is happening!!)

Keep us posted. x

Ok so last night when he first went to sleep must have been a fluke! He woke at 2.30 finally resettled at 3.45 am after many up and downs from me and so much crying from me, had a massive argument with DH in the middle of it all as he was telling me just to make him sleep so DH could sleep for work, this is after we agreed we would do this knowing how hard it might be GRRRR! Then he woke at 4.30 and cried again until 6am when he normally has a feed so i got him to stop crying in his cot once he was calm i picked him up and did our normal mornign routine of in bed for a cuddle and a feed beofre getting up. At the moment he is in is room crying and whinging cos i have left him in there, i am going in when he really starts to lose it (and when i do too) but he is has been in bed for forty minutes and is still going, someone please reassure me it will get better, i am so close to giving up but i know i have to be consistent but it so so hard please help!

it will get better, it just takes persistance.
sending you lots of hugs..xxx

Aw Kim, I'm so sorry. It's such a hard thing to do!
I did CC with my DD when she was only about 7-8 months old. I felt I didn't have a choice. It was really hard but it did work for my DD. (It doesn't work for all kids, I'll freely admit, and I wouldn't ever push it on anyone as something they should do with their kids. I hope I won't have to do it with my next one!)
You are right, the key is consistency. Even if you are dog-tired, even if you are upset by the crying/whinging. You just do it the same way each time, in a way that you feel comfortable with. (Whether that be to stay there the whole time, or leave them be for a while or whatever.) Do it for a couple of weeks before you decide if it is working for you. (Unless of course you are finding it too tough and would prefer things the way they were - no one's forcing you to do anything.)
For us, it took about a week or less for things to dramatically improve. However, I can't say that she slept through the night every night thereafter. We had periods when she'd wake overnight and I dealt with them differently at each stage. I just responded however I was comfortable.
But to answer your question, it should get better within a couple of weeks. If it doesn't get better in that time, then it probably won't. And then you look at your options again.

Oh Kimmy, That is really bad news.

I also had a few bad nights like that including the row with DH. Everybody is so fractious which just implodes. I certainly doesn't help Bubs to sleep either. You really have to be on the same page with the sleep settling and it does no good to have the discussions about it in the middle of the night with a lack of sleep and with a baby who is unsettled! I don't think I am telling you anything you don't know here, just backing you up in that your DH really needs to understand what you are going through and what you need from him in the short term to make the much longer term work. :hug: My DH was terrible with this but me completely losing it in a big way shook some sense in to him :redface:. I am not too impressed that it had to get to that though.

I wholeheartedly agree with snacks' advice above. You do have to feel comfortable with what you are doing to settle your DS and with all things with kids, the dreaded *consistency* is really really important.

The bad night last night does not necessarily mean it wont work. Plus I don't necessarily think that your first night was a fluke... I think it shows that your DS can do it. Those big long hours in the middle of the night where he wont settle are really really really hard to take. Remember if you are continually going in to him to help him settle and let him know you are there, he is learning to resettle, albeit slowly! Take some big breaths, set yourself up with something to do when you are up and keep at it. Try to get sleeps during the day when he does or hand him over to your DH, family or friends for a few hours during the day to catch up on sleep. Remember to look after you too as then you have a much better chance of making it through these nights.

x

Thanks Snacks JenJorja and Jackrose for your support it really means a lot to have you here for me, esepcially when a lot of my other friends laugh at me when i say i can't bear hearing my DS cry (apparantly i'm too soft but whatever :) )

last night was a little better he still woke up twice but only stayed awake for about 20 min each time and resettled without any where near as much crying from us both. DH got home from work last night and was really apologetic for the way he carried on the night before, apparantly he has had a very bad headache for days and neck pain and the noise of DS was too much in the middle of the night, so that was good that he knew we was being a jerk! he went off for his afternoon sleep in about 5 -10 min so a much day better today.

Thanks again for your kindness and support i really needed it yesterday and this morning so thank you all so much. Fingers crossed tonight will be okay as well! xxx

With my first I had one rule and one rule only: DH's job was to shut up :lol:

He did not have to get up, make bottles, change dipers, settle bubs ... NOTHING, his ONE and ONLY job was to shut up. It worked for us. It's hard enough dealing with a baby crying at 2am for three hours straight, don't need a full grown human being to point out that you don't know what the blooming hell you are doing.

:hug: Like they said ... I'm sure it does get better, if you stick to your guns and have the support of your partner in crime.

PS. I'm very happy for you that he gave you an apology, good boy ;)

Just about to go to bed, sorry I didn't read a lot of other posts but this is what we did:

DS: waited until he was 1 year old. Prior to that we were giving him a cup of milk (went from bf to cup at 10mths, his choice) and holding him until he went to sleep.
Chose a long weekend or when DH didn't have to go to work for a week and let him cry for 10 mins before we went in, but I remember lying there listening to him cry for what seemed a long time the first night. Took a few hours the first night for him to learn we weren't going to pick him up.
2nd night we did the same as the first night (very hard not to give in but this is the key for the shortest period of pain) and he went to sleep within 2 hours, for the whole night.
3rd night went to sleep within 45 minutes.

DD: still bf but at 14 months I was so tired from working pt and bf and getting up to bf at night 2-3 times so again planned for DH to do the going in, so she knew she wouldn't get a feed.
Took 3 nights again, but not so much crying because she quickly got the message that only water was coming. So since October long weekend last year she stopped waking at night.
She kept bf in the morning until slowly weaned her off at 18 months.

I would suggest looking at Pinky McKay's website to see if you can find some tips there, as she supports gentle parenting and has some hints for getting them to sleep. She advocates choices that a respectful for parents and babies, so it is about what you think is the right thing for your baby and your family.

The guilt was there at the time for me, but I knew ultimately that the night bf especially had to stop as I just couldn't cope and it was affecting the kids, my work and me! So I put it into perspective that a few days in the scheme of things was not too bad. Having a very very supportive DH made it much easier because we were in it together so the timing was crucial not to affect his work etc.

Goodluck!

KimmyF if you are interested I have Pinky McKays' book "Sleeping Like a baby" that I would be happy to give to you. I bought it as I had heard wonderful things about it. I ended up not really using it to be honest. If you want it it's yours, just PM me your address and I pop it in the post for you.

How was last night, Kim?
Oh, I think I jynxed myself by coming in here and giving you my 'advice' :rolleyes: My daughter has started up these dreadful bedtime tantrums the last two nights and I have been beside myself! I have been reminded anew how horrid it is to have an unsettled child! I feel for you all over again.
To top it off, DH is making me crazy with his 'instructions' :wall: Like he has EVER been the one to deal with her sleeping problems!
Sorry - that was my therapy ;) Anyhoo, I am glad that the other night was better and that your DH apologised. Hope that last night and tonight go well.

Thanks for eveyone's concern it means a lot, sorry to hear you have been having trouble with your daughter Snacks hope i haven't jinxed you and things have improved!
Nadine, i pretty much told DH if he can't support or say something nice or helpful lay there and pretend to be asleep an don't even do as much as sigh!
Thanks for your offer Chakra i PMd you hope it got to you would be interested to hear it worked for you.
Krisp i will PM you if you don't mind giving/loaning the book to me that would be awesome, you BB girls really are the best.
So... nights have been hit and miss, Friday was not too bad but last night was an abosulte nightmare!!!!! Screaming and crying so hard in between me settling him, i think he has a croaky voice today, i tried really hard not to cave but eventually did at 4.30 am as i couldn't bear anymoreand i'm pretty sure Cooper couldn't either. Tonight he settled quite quickly and has remained asleep, so lets see what the middle of the night brings its usally the troublesome time so fingers crossed i see a little improvement, i'll let you know in the morning.
Thanks again everyone, you are helping me more than you know through this process. xxxx

thought i'd pop in and update how we've been going, he has turned one so that was special for us celebrating our first year but what is nearly just as special is we have slept through the last three nights!!!!!!
The waking in the middle of the night is a quick wake up cry out for mum sometimes before im even there he has self settled already other times i just give him his dummy and blanket, stroke his forehead for a few seconds and walk out and he is back to sleep. in the last few weeks we have had one really bad night and that was last Saturday night but he was cutting a top tooth and i think it was the cause.
Thanks Krisp for the loaning the book to me it was an interesting read i'll post back soon just rereading some bits, i am so glad i decided to persevere but i never thought it would be so hard.

Thanks to all the lovely ladies who responded to my post i really appreciate your support i couldn't have even started this with out you all. xxxxx

Happy birthday Cooper!!!


So glad to hear you have had a few excellent nights! You must feel like a different person after getting a couple of stress free sleeps. YAY.

I guess you now know, even if you get some more bad times, that you can do it and what you have done will work for you. Hope things keep going well though.

BB people really are fantastic hey? Glad you got some great support here. :)

KimmyF
I did this with my DD when she was 8weeks old. My MW and Pediatrician said babies dont need milk in the middle of the night they learn, (like us we dont wake at 2am wanting a cheeseburger etc.)
It took me 3 nights of letting her cry, it was fantastic when all done. Now I put her to bed and off she goes, both my kiddies actually.

ITS very very very hard, I would go have a shower LONG shower, go outside hang clothes on the line etc.

You are doing waht you need to do.. to keep yourself sane and hubby sane.
Not everyone will agree with letting baby CIO.... but I did it and never looked back. They learn to settle themselves. MUCH MUCH EASIER.. short term pain long term gain!!

Good luck you are doing a brilliant job!