Ok lets not start an argument. Lets not make this thread about who's loss is worse. Loss is loss, and I'm sure its painful for anyone who has been through it. Please lets not make this personal. Its a very sad situation.
*hugs*
Cailin
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Ok lets not start an argument. Lets not make this thread about who's loss is worse. Loss is loss, and I'm sure its painful for anyone who has been through it. Please lets not make this personal. Its a very sad situation.
*hugs*
Cailin
Liz, the loss of a parent is tragic and I am sorry that you have felt insensitive statements have been made.
This is a very emotive topic. Many of the women commenting have delivered a dead baby. I have lost very close people also and that is a tragedy. The pain I have felt at the loss of my babies was very different for me. I *think* this is what people are trying to get across - however I can't speak for others of course.
Had Big Brother reenacted the death of a parent in a car accident when they were aware a particular BB participant had endured such a tragedy then that would be equally appalling.
However, the issue is the death of a child. However way we turn it around to lose a child is something incredibly huge and the assumption that "you get over it" couldn't be further from the truth. It doesn't even really fade. It's always theere. The smells, the feelings, the sounds. This is the same with any death - again though the issue here is the death before birth of a baby.
I agree with other posters that if there is anything positive to come out of this hideous act then it is perhaps that the public become a little more educated about stillbirth and perhaps miscarriage. It happens every day. It happens to ordinary people and it hurts like hell. :grouphug:
The thing I was thinking is that BB wouldn't have put someone into the house knowing they had lost a loved one to drowning in a pool because there is a pool in the house etc... yet, they would put a woman in who had lost a child, and then set up a task to make her look after a fake baby!? That is just sick.
Very well said Caro
:hug:
Just to clarify - I wasnt trying to take away from anyone who has suffered a loss and certainly was not trying to start an argument. Everyone else got to have their say and I was simply having my say as well - but I dont think it can be held against me for being upset over it. This has brought up alot of emotions for me about how people treat me.
Bascially, I am saying that until you have a stillborn baby you just cant possibly understand the pain and therefore cannot compare. I have lost quite a few very close loved ones in my time, in particular in the last couple of years, I think most adult people have, but I can quite honestly say that I have never felt the pain I feel over Nicholas. I truly believe that people are not "afraid" of you when you lose a parent or other relative, they dont look uncomfortable when you walk in the room, they dont avoid speaking to you. I on the other hand have found that people do seem to be "afraid" of me, apart from my family and a couple of close friends most people I know act like I was never pregnant, they have never even acknowledged to me I have had a baby, and I know alot of the other ladies here have experienced the same thing. I try to talk about Nicholas and people change the subject because its "too hard" for them. I do believe that society makes the loss of a baby who was stillborn much greater than the loss of another loved one, and until you have experienced such a loss you will never agree or understand.
The main reason I made that comment is because it was mentiond about Ben from BB talking about the death of his mother, and not only that being left reponsible for his little brother. I totally agree with what Deb said, had his parents death been re-enacted in the house forcing him to talk about it I would be just as angry as I am about Kate. The fact remains Ben chose to talk about his mother and was open about it. Kate's choice was taken away from her.
Lets not forget the psychological trauma that comes with having a stillborn baby, we have all of the post baby issues including a body that we feel self conscious about, post natal depression, approx. 6 weeks of bleeding, hormones all over the place, but we dont have the baby to make it all worthwhile. The memories of giving birth for us are traumatic, those happy memories that people have of delivering their child and holding them in their arms, reverse those around and I guarantee you it is hard to live with. I do not believe that the psychological trauma is the same for the loss of another relative - that is all I am trying to say, I am not saying people are not entitled to grieve and I know noone ever "gets over" the loss of a loved one.
But at the end of the day - I agree with you Caro - Its definitely time to go Big Brother!
Caro - Please dont think what I have said above is at all trivialising the death of your mother, I saw my aunty deteriorate over a long period from lung cancer and brain mets and it was awful so I cant imagine what it would be like to watch my mother go through that. I totally agree grief is grief and to the person experiencing it, it is all consuming and something which you will never get over.
Just one more thing re insensitive comments being made - This thread has been posted under the TTC after Late Loss ~ Recurrent Miscarriage ~ Stillbirth forum. No-one is trying to be insensitive about the loss of a parent or taking away from the tragedy of it, if there were a Loss of a Parent forum I would not go in there and compare my loss, therefore I dont think the opposite should be done in this forum.
I'm sorry. This thread was not started to compare loses. Any loss is heartbreaking and tragic and should not be compared. The main reason I started this thread is because I wanted to express my views on how people are treated. To be honest I was going to post this in the TV thread but decided to post in the TTC thread because I knew that my views could be shared amongst people that had experienced a similar loss to Kate. In saying that I know that any thread that is started can be viewed and replied to. All comments are welcome here but I really don't want it to cause arguments.
- Deb I agree and this is my point. I think somewhere along the way here the point has been missed. My anger is about how people are treated.:
Had Big Brother reenacted the death of a parent in a car accident when they were aware a particular BB participant had endured such a tragedy then that would be equally appalling.
Well - like I said earlier, I -wasn't- comparing the losses, I agree, they can't be compared, it was just something I said with regards to people's stories being aired on tv. But the 'vibe' that comes across is 'sorry - that doesn't count, it's not as bad as MY loss', so I just feel that the insensitive comments go both ways, that's all, and that's regardless of where it's posted.
Even similar losses can't be compared, the best anyone can ever do is empathise. And if personal experiences can't be drawn upon in order to empathise, well then everyone will continue to feel isolated because everyone will continue to believe that "no-one understands".
Ok I don't want to sound like a nag. But can we please move on from comparisons now?
We can all be understanding of each other and from what I can see we all are.
Lets now stick to the original topic please.
*hugs*
Cailin
I have to reiterate what Cailin has asked.
This thread is in the Miscarriage and Loss thread so let's stay on task.
It was a very good point made by Mel.
Again, all grief is sad this particular issue has it's own particular intracacies.
Thank you for understanding Caro :)
OK well I am going to get it back on track and say that I think it is very unlikely they will axe the show - hopefully we can all make a difference by sending our letters and getting it taken off the air after this season - but if it has to go on can I just say that I hope Kate takes it out and wins a whole heap of money? I know there is technically no prize money this year but they have already added 50K to the kitty and I think it could be something that would make a difference to her life and hopefully give her something great to focus on. Just as I was really happy that Ben won the year he was on, I bet it made life alot easier for him and his bro.
GO KATE!
Sorry to hijack but... Deb - this thread has reminded me, did you get the email I sent to you the other day?
Well, I emailed Helen Coonan with regard to Big Brother and today got a response that I thought I would share. The letter is long and that is because it is all about codes of practice. I won't bore you with that but will transcribe a small part of the letter:
"I am aware that the most recent series has aroused public concern at the apparent insensitive treatment of a woman who had recently miscarried being required to care for a computerised baby doll."
"The minister has placed Channel 10 on notice that she and the independent regulator ACMA are watching the conduct of the network closely. Whilst channel 10's insensitive programming decisions do not breach it's licence conditions or the Code, the decisions are considereed by the Government to be in breach of the spirit of the Code. The Government expects that Channel 10 will comply with all of its obligations and the undertakings it has given following previous investigations into content appearing on earlier Big Brother programs."
So, it's not much of a response. But at least they had to read how this kind of thing affects the public. The fact that they termed Miscarriage instead of still birth has prompted me to further email. The powers that be need to realise that this type of thing is abhorrent and they also need to get the terminology right!
Well I am glad that you got a response but you are right, it doesn't say much.
I can't believe they are still confusing the terms. I hope they listen to your reply and get the correct terminology.
Good on you Deb
Lv Spring
Why are some people so bl00dy insensitive. That response to me is just a standard response and one that doesn't show compasion or consideration.
I have to agree with all you ladies... unfortunately in regards to Big Brother- any publicity is a positive to them. If a TV station is prepared to film people going to the toilet, to them there is no ethical boundaries or concern- just ratings.
In regards to previous comments, I want to say that although she did inform producers that she had "Dealt with the situation", anybody locked in a house without reprieve, then confronted with such a strong and vivid reminder is bound to react... whether it be a crying baby or giant photographs of a deceased love one. Channel ten and BB have no argument regarding this, she had no reliable coping mechanisms that she would usually turn to (being locked in a house with strangers) and what disgusts me from a Pysch background is that the Pysch's involved in BB should have their credentials looked at. If they can be so stupid and ignorant to put their name to the BB show- and give reinforcement to allowing the task to have taken place, then I would not want them even doing a Pysch assessment on my cattle dog!
Lets just hope that there is more people out there like you all- to show women like her compassion and understanding in light of her loss. Unfortunately at the moment it feels like she is expected to deal with her loss and forget- but all we mothers know that you could never forget a baby, no matter how long it was here with you for.
Take care
E's mum
OMG I cant believe that they said she had a miscarriage :angry: Nicholas has been referred to as a miscarriage and I very promptly clarify that he was infact stillborn - there is a massive difference and I cannot believe that a person in her position could be so insensitive! But then it seems to me the way of the world, unless someone has experienced a late loss or stillbirth they just cant (or dont want to) get it... thankfully there are some decent people in the world who try to understand us.
Well at you got a response and werent blatantly ignored... will be interesting to see if you get a further response. Would love to hear if you do Deb :)
And I totally agree with you E's Mum - those psychs are crocks, common sense tells you although she may be able to deal with her loss in her normal environment, take her out of that comfort and it is totally different.