Religion #2

Hi everyone:

Ryn :) Thanks for the questions... I bet you'll wish you'd never asked though... theres no simple explanation in Buddhism!!!! And sometimes even a longwinded explanation will leave you scratching your head so I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm sorry if it does!!!!!

Nirvana. Ok, I actually think you're talking about Enlightenment. Nirvana is eternal happiness and the ceasation of suffering. Like 'Heaven'. Enlightenment, or the Wisdom of Emptiness... is the wisdom that arises from the direct experience of all phenomena being empty of independent existence.

Theravada traditions focus on Nirvana as the ultimate goal... Mahayana traditions focus on Enlightenment, or Buddhahood. Even though being a Buddha will ultimately lead to Nirvana after death, and to get to Nirvana you must have Buddhahood, so both are striving for basically the same thing, the goals are actually very different (but I think thats for anoher post!!!!!). I like Mayahanan tradtions because of the goal to become a Bodhisattva... a Buddha who pronglongs their life on Earth in order to help others stop their suffering.

Ok, Karma. Ahhh, how did I know this would come up! Society has grasped a very basic understanding of Karma, saying that some "deserve" 'bad' karma, and some "deserve" 'good' karma.

Karma is directly related to rebirth, so you'll have to put your imagination caps on if you don't believe in rebirth and bare with me for a sec :)

Buddhist believe in rebirth, or samsara (cycle), and that peoples energy (or, you could say, 'souls') continue to be rebirthed until they reach Enlightenment and move onto Nirvana. Karma is a prt of the energy... people carrying their Karma from their past life, through this life, and to the next. The Karma you hold at the end of one life determines where you go and your circumstances in the next life.
I see a lot of parallels between Buddhism and Christianity, I find it fascinating, but a major difference is that in Buddhism we don't have a 'God', Buddha is not a God, he is a man, kind of like Jesus. But our actions, our Karma, ultimately determine where we go after a death. Which is kind of like judgement, but with no God... Ahhhh... I'm going to cut and paste this is way to hard to explain!!!!!!

(It's hard to find a explanation less than 5 paragraphs long!!!!)

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Karma

Karma is a Sanskrit word from the root "Kri" to do or to make and simply means "action." It operates in the universe as the continuous chain reaction of cause and effect. It is not only confined to causation in the physical sense but also it has moral implications. "A good cause, a good effect; a bad cause, a bad effect" is a common saying. In this sense karma is a moral law.

Now human beings are constantly giving off physical and spiritual forces in all directions. In physics we learn that no energy is ever lost; only that it changes form. This is the common law of conservation of energy. Similarly, spiritual and mental action is never lost. It is transformed. Thus Karma is the law of the conservation of moral energy.

By actions, thoughts, and words, man is releasing spiritual energy to the universe and he is in turn affected by influences coming in his direction. Man is therefore the sender and receiver of all these influences. The entire circumstances surrounding him is his karma.

With each action-influence he sends out and at the same time, receives, he is changing. This changing personality and the world he lives in, constitute the totality of his karma.

Karma should not be confused with fate. Fate is the notion that man's life is preplanned for him by some external power, and he has no control over his destiny. Karma on the other hand, can be changed. Because man is a conscious being he can be aware of his karma and thus strive to change the course of events. In the Dhammapada we find the following words, "All that we are is a result of what we have thought, it is founded on our thoughts and made up of our thoughts."

What we are, then, is entirely dependent on what we think. Therefore, the nobility of man's character is dependent on his"good" thoughts, actions, and words. At the same time, if he embraces degrading thoughts, those thoughts invariably influence him into negative words and actions.

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So on "Judgement Day" when you face God, your actions of your life are judged... For Buddhists, we are judged on our actions too, but we call it Karma...

I should clear up that Buddhists never want someone to accumulate bad Karma. So there isn't any satisfaction in saying "Oh well, he'll get his"... it's really saddening that people use i like that... Buddhist's would rather every person live honestly and truly, without negative actions or thoughts.

I should point out as well, since we carry our Karma, that our circumstancces we are born into reflect our Karma from our past life... but it isn't about punishing people for their past lives, but trying to teach them and encourage good actions and good Karma... does that make sense? BTW... suffering is not caused by Karma... Buddhist believe and accept that suffering is an inevitable fact of life. This is the First Noble Truth... Life is suffering (not to be morbid...!). So if someone is suffering at death, it isn't because of bad Karma, it is because of the nature of life. The Buddha suffered from illnesses throughout his life... the Dalai Lama himself has a serious medical condition... but this is the nature of life, not Karma.

Hope I've answered your questions Ryn... I'm not trying to convert you either... just clear up misconceptions... there are a lot surrounding Buddhism!!!!!

Jennifer: Well, I just explained Karma... Mostly, the thing I think most important, is that suffering isn't Karma. Karma does not cause suffering. Sickness, heartache, death... are all facts of life, no ammount of good Karma can stop it, no ammount of bad Karma can encourage suffering. Suffering can be overcome... that is the goal of Buddhism... Enlightenment and Nirvana... but thats a whole other topic altogether, and not a lot to do with Karma.

Ok, our Holy Days...
On Visakah Puja we celebrate Buddha's Birth, Death, and Enlightenment. Basically it is a celebration of Buddha. I like to get up, take the precepts (5) and pray. I have a Shakyamuni Buddha at home, and puja (puja means worship and offer) by offering incense and candles, I go to a temple or somewhere they are having worship, and listen to them speak, like a sermon. I'll have a nice lunch, and fast for the day, and pray and read the scriptures and meditate.
You can take the precepts at a temple at sunrise as well, but I do it at home. Most people go to a Shakyamuni Buddha Puja at a temple or shrine constructed for the day (like at Southbank in Qld lol), and give offerings of lotus flowers, incense, candles, and rice cakes. A lot of people construct holy objects like stupas and tsa-tsas because of the merit accumulated on such an auspicious day. Some people like to take the 10 precepts and pray for the day. Some feast, before noon, and fast for the rest of the day.

And thats pretty much what happens on all holy days! In some countries, celebrations are held, there is a lot of festivities, music, dancing, singing, presents etc. I like to spend the day in worship and prayer and meditation.

Monthly holy days... precept days... i get up at sunrise and take the precepts and pray. You can do it at the temple somtimes, which I don't 99% of the time. Precept days coincide with the moon, and are held on the four phases of the moon.
On the Puja days you worship and make offerings to different Buddha's... at Chenrezig once a month there is Tara Puja (a female Buddha), and Medicine Buddha Puja (for healing physically and emotionally)... Guru puja (teacher worship) twice a month, and others which come around less frequently. Some people worship these and others weekly. It just depends on your temple.

I don't know many other Buddhists in the town I live, but I know there are a lot of people that go to Chenrezig (some from Brisbane and Gold Coast). I don't go to Chenrezig a lot for worship, mainly because its so difficult to get to! They have a homestudy program and I can talk on the phone with people when i would like some guidance on that. I would like to go more, just because its so peaceful and wonderful. For a service it is usually a talk about a certain part of a scripture, depending on the topic, they like to use analogies, how they apply to now. Usually you walk out so much more confused, but I think they mean to do that!!!!! :p

Hmmm.... I don't think you want me to say much more... Namaste and think about this a while if it doesn't make sense straight up.

Thanks for all the info Alisia. One question I have is, you said that in Buddhism there is no God? Who is it that you pray to and worship then? Buddha? Wouldn't that make him like a god if he answers prayers? lol, you're right, it is a bit confusing.

Hi Sara, and good question!

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Buddhist prayer is a practice to awaken our inherent inner capacities of strength, compassion and wisdom rather than to petition external forces based on fear, idolizing, and worldly and/or heavenly gain. Buddhist prayer is a form of meditation; it is a practice of inner reconditioning. Buddhist prayer replaces the negative with the virtuous and points us to the blessings of Life.

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Buddha can't answer prayers. When I mean prayer, its more like a chanting of holy songs / verses / mantras. Meditation would be more like the prayer you are thinking of... but rather than asking Buddha to answer, we meditate to find the answer within ourselves... to evaluate the sitatuion... to hopefully find an answer for ourselves.

Our worship is showing our love, respect and devotion to the Buddha's, to what they achieved and how... Prayer... reading holy scriptures and chanting holy songs,verses or mantras is how we worship....

Some people use prayer to mean their meditation... some people use prayer to mean reading from the scriptures and chanting... some people don't say that they pray, and rather they worship... puja... and meditate.

Because of the translation differences, it can get very confusing, puja means worship, which includse devotional prayer and chanting... but when people think prayer they think like preaying for answers... kind of a lost in translation thing...

Hello everyone!

I have popped in here a few times and last night i managed to read through all of what has been expressed in here. I am so glad i did becuase it is all so interesting and all this has helped me to see that i have picked little bits from quite a few religions that i tend to follow, without really realising that i was.

Please know that my opinions are mearly "my opinions". I am quite open to hearing new ideas and i like it when i can be "proved Wrong" or given another perspective. As i am on a search for an entire truth and i beleive that every religion and culture somehow fits into a jigsaw puzzle, I need all the peices to make it work. At the moment i feel like i am just scratching the surface and i love hearing how other peoples ideas and beleifs fit into my theories and you would be suprised how often i have "thought" something only to research and find that i was on the right track- if maybe just a little off. And with all the new information, my theories take new twists and turns and i find myself fitting in more peices to my puzzle.


So here is a little of what my theory is so far. I understand if you dont want to read or if i am posting too much in the wrong place, but please if you arn't interested, just scroll down and ignore it, and if you are bored enought to read it all... then i would love some feedback on what you think.(besides that i am slightly crazy, coz i know that already!) Again, this is just what i think happened, based a little on what history i know. I know in some places i am probably way off the mark, but please just bear with my ideas, they are not set in stone, they are just thoughts.

I beleive in a Higher Power of some sort. I have trouble deciding whether i think that "Higher Power" has a conciousness, and especially after reading what Leasha has explained regarding Karma, i think i tend to fall somewhere in between. I feel like this higher power is an energy form, but that it has some sort of "Bigger Picture" knowledge and can in some way influence everything on this earth. And to do that tho, it needs some sort of conciousnes. So in this sense i feel this is really where my struggle lies. I beleive that this higher power is the creator and life flow of all living things.
Our spirits are our connection to this energy, and we all have just a little bit of it in us. It is this connection which forms our instinct and our inner conciousness.

I beleive that thousands of years ago in Ancient Greek times (3000BC), the Higher Power (going with the idea that it HAS a conciousness) sent down to earth the Guides to the Earths most relevant energies.(air waterfire earth, wind, love) These Guides where deemed Devine or God like, as they had a connection to this power and they were sent here in a sense to explain to people the basics of life on earth.
These Guides were sent in different forms to different cultures to explain it as they needed to hear it so that it made sense to them. (these are the gods such as Aphrodite:Venus Jupiter ;Zues etc) or they were passed on through stories which helped to teach ways of living life. What these teaching actually were, i am unsure.
I know that the Ancient Greeks had a few major rules, one was the
Hubris Rule, which was to limit ones pride in ones self.
One must never think that he or she is above the gods.
One can be good at something or do good things, but their reward is knowing that it was done to please the Gods or the people as a whole, never something selfish or self centered.
If one was to commit Hubris the gods would have swift actions either by their hands (accidents which cause death but are thought to be the gods weilding their hand) or that the gods will bring harm to those that you love. Or they would make you do something to harm yourself (from guilt?)(references, Antigone, The Bacchi, and of course Odepios)

This one simple rule seems pretty easy. Dont do what you know you shouldn't and always think about others and the effect what you do will have on them before you do it. Respect the natural way of things and fit yourself in as part of a whole picture, not as man- ruler of all. The confidence in the gods watching over you and making sure you were doing the right thing was a reasurring thing. If you felt in your heart (that little part of the Higher Power in you) that what you were doing was right, then generally it was, and the repurcutions were always justified. Negative or Positive.

The Greeks would hold festivals to worship their gods. My favourite is the God of Dionysius. He was the god of Food and Wine and all that is fun. And probably the most worshipped god of our day, with out people realising it. To worship him you need to let your hair down and have fun!! i have certainly held a few night in his honor!! LOL And these festivals where held at significant times. Plays were perfomed to remind people of the Gods and their stories. These plays and stories were all known and would be the smae ones repeated year after year and they would just re affirm peoples beliefs. The stories tell of the Days when the gods would walk amongst the people. So the people who are now watching and performing these plays hundreds of years on were related to the Real People who met the gods.
They followed strict rules in regard to burials and ceremonies. Coins must be layed on the eyes of the dead to pay their way on the Boat to their next destination. I am unsure about a Heaven or if your soul would then maybe travel to another life.

NOw this is where i loose the plot abit,(LOL for those who thought i lost it before that!!) i think this went ok for some time. Once the Gods had done their bit, they left people to their own devices to keep it going.(with the Festivals, each god had its time and place to be worshipped) And as it happens, generation after generation didn't have the same impact of memory of the gods actually being there, and combine that with the influence of other cultures and little things began to unravel.

I think that the Higher Power had a little plan for everyone to meet together and share all these wonderful stories and be all pretty much on the same track... but something went wrong, What exactly happened i dont know, i wasn;t there, haven't met anyone who was, but i feel like Man sort of said "Bugger you Gods that i dont know, i am a man and i have all the power!!!"

This is where i feel things went "wrong" and all the trouble started.
Some poeple tried to follow the old ways but Festivals and things where people would worship these gods got stopped and when you stop acknowleging these Guides, you loose your guidence and they stopped their bit as well.

However somewhere in there is the person who said "Bugger the Gods" and the ideas that have come from that person. I sort of fall back on the Romans from here. The Romans colonised alot of land which spand over many places. The Romans would incorporate all sorts of ideas and they allowed people to worship who and what they wanted as long as they worshipped their gods aswell. Now i think something happened along these lines...Please excuse my humour, but generally this is what i think happened...
someone said to the Romans.. "NAh, i'll just stick to me own one God dude, i like what i am doing here and its working for me so this is what we will do. I dont want to worship your gods, and if you want to hang here, you have to follow what im doing and listen about this one god and ignore all your others."

So the Romans went, "ah, i dunno, my gods can be pretty rutheless. i dont wanna upset them" and the other guy says "but mate, if you follow MY god, you'll be right. I made up all the rules, so its ok. We just cruise along and make our own rules up and we will face the consequences if we have to. You never met your gods did you, you just heard it from other people, what if they were just saying that stuff to scare you... you dont have to beleive if you dont want to, but you'll have to go somewhere else. Just give it a go..."

So the Romans went, "ok, but im gonna just change a few things here and there to suit me and we'll take it from there"
The other guy says "No worries mate, its sweet, just keep trying stuff out till your happy, as long as you dont upset me!"

And there we have the Roman Catholics.

From here in history i know there was alot of bloodshed and religion was a hot topic. The Romans Catholics would eventually deny every other aspect of religion besides their own. No longer was choice a free thing. You had to follow them or die. Festivals were banned and no one was allowed to express ideas or old stories. Due to this alot of information has been lost. i tend to think it was on purpose so that this Farce would never be found out. And if enough time went by that it would be forgotten and all would be as one person wanted it, with Man being the all mighty power. From the period 0-500AD all forms of religious festivals and worship were banned from any civilized group. It wasn;t until this new group decided that they needed to start spreading the new word that a fom of Laturgical Theatre was formed. Carriages of people telling the stories of biblical stories would pass through towns spreading the new beleifs. These stories were the basis of Catholic culture and formed the idea that we were made from Adam and Eve and that we were all sinners who would be harshly judged if we did not follow these new rules. If you were found to be worshipping the old gods, you were killed.
It wasn;t until about 1100 AD that any other form of theatre or expression was allowed. Only once it had been drummed into everyone were people allowed to have free thought.

It is around this time that Christianity i beleive had its first origins. I am unsure about how the Jewish and Islam religions were able to start, i think they were far away enough to do it in secret,(?) or they did it in a way that pleased the catholics

(any help in this part from someone who knows different would be appriciated)

For me these two religions stick out becuase i find them as a bit of a middle ground. These religions i beleive were formed based loosly on the catholics ideals, but with them managing to maintain some of their own true beliefs and i am curious as to how that managed to happen in these times. It means also that i feel these religions are so very important because this is one of those times where i believe the Higher Power was trying to help. I beleive these religions hold true many of the beliefs that are important and neccessary in our life.

Now another person i think who was sent to help was jesus. And i feel christianity is another form of a middle ground between what these people wanted everyone to beleive and what was really going on.

I feel that these religions were formed by people who wanted only good to come for everyone and with the basic ideas for us to follow. Unfortunatly over time, peoples intentions change, and life happens and sometimes people with good intentions still make a bit of a mess.

Now, for those of you who are still with me here, thankyou for your open mindedness and patience!!

I will admit i get lost between history, facts, fiction and everything in between. And that my ideas are all theories and from here i think the world is in a mess becuase people are struggling to deal with what is going on. I like to think there is a simple answer and that one day we can all either to agree to disagree or to at least be able to come to terms with the world. But part of my theory is that the Higher Power has Tried to send us help and we have either ignored it or miscontrude what was trying to be given to us. And part of me thinks that it is just waiting for us to all let go of our ideas and just ask for help. To realise that something is going on and to ask it for the answer. I feel like it needs to know we want its help, and that maybe it is better to admit we dont know then it is to follow something someone else said is right.

I would love to see something really dramatic, like a Guide to fall from the sky, as i think the way the world is now- a human like messiah would be no good as no one would believe them. It needs to be something huge, something no one can deny or misinterperate. Something or someone that can tell us what to do.
I am waiting, but i am loosing patience.
I want to be able to believe in something, but i want it to be the true "right thing"

In the meantime i guess i follow all sorts of ways of trying to please the Higher Power, and make it feel wanted so that it may try to help again.
I do prey, so to speak. I talk in my head and run through ideas and ask for guidence. I tell this "thing" that i am lost and i wish i knew what to do. I ask for strength to be a good person and to help me make the right decisions. I try not to do anything that gives me that "i know i shouldn't be doing this" feeling, and i try to listen to my inner voice for guidence.

But to be honest some days it is so hard when i haven't got the confidence that this "Higher Power" is even listening. The other side to my theory is that all the stories, including the ancient Greeks where ALL made up to find some sort of reasening in Nature. I tend to fall then into the energy side of it and think of the higher Power as just the balance of life. We are here because bacteria grew and we do have connections and everthing we do has an equal and oppisite reaction and that we are all just floating around to balance something else out. There is no Conciousness, just a balance. If one side falls, another side rises, just beacuse. Not becuase someone from above helped tip it over, just because.

So you can see my delema. I would love to believe the Higher Power has a conciousness, but then i would like to see more action from it. And if it doesn't have one, then we are all just doing what we need to do and the world will be as it will forever regardles of what we are doing, it will just take on what ever happens and react that way and grow or die as it will.

I would like a simple answer, but i guess that is what life is all about, finding some meaning and making the best out of whatever comes our way.

Thankyou for listening to my dribble, i hope that this thread continues and that maybe i have offered some food for thought.

And yes, one day i am going to write a book, but i need to find the ending first!!

Goodnight and Sweet Dreams
StarBright xoxox

Thanks Alisia!

As for life is suffering, I do agree we learn most from our troubles and struggles. If life were easy there would be no need to strive or try to become more than we are. I still dislike the thought that people deserve hard lives; yes, it's good in some ways that we learn, but to deserve bad things... anyway, thanks for clearing it up a bit.

Do you get annoyed with the "karma bites you in the butt" phrases? I do and I'm not a Buddhist!

I also agree that the answers are often within ourselves, but by praying, be it introspective or requesting change, we can think clearly about what is needed and that focus helps us change.

Starbright, wow!

Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have the same root; all believe in Adam and Eve, the Fall, the Great Flood... but the Muslims start to part company at the time of Abraham (hence these three are called the Abrahamic Religions) and Judaism and Christianity don't see eye to eye about Jesus being God and the Son of God.

Personally, I know there is a higher power because we are here - evolution cannot happen without God. I have studied experiments done to re-create life from slime and conditions more optimal than the earth ever had will make some DNA, but no life. Also, Christianity is not "do what makes you happy" - although the Church has come across this way recently. Fear God and keep His commandments; that is the meaning of life. For God knows everything, seen and unseen, and we will be judged on that.

Whoa Starbright! :p You're right, that does seem pretty 'out there' to me, but I'm so glad you shared, it was a really interesting read. I think I would be troubled like you, to believe in a Higher Power that seemed a bit powerless to intervene or have an impact on this earth. It's interesting to think about.

I think I won't add to Ryn's points on the origins of our religions, I think similarly.

Alisia, thanks for teaching us a bit about Buddhism. I'm really enjoying learning what others believe, and trying to make sense of it all!

I agree with what you say Ryn, i guess my problem is that i see that somewhere man (in general, as a whole) has put himself at the top of the ladder, instead of as just one stepping stone. And once one person does that, it makes it very hard for other people to feel safe and truly be themselves. And i find that sad. :( I am glad that you can all understand (i think ) where i am coming from. :)

I think that anyone who try's to help others, puts themselves in as part of the big picture is doing the right thing. Anyone who puts humans above all else is not. And i think my biggest worry is that its the people who have no idea what is going on and just do as they please and hurt other people and ani,mals who are going to wreck it all for the rest of us. Like one bad apple spoils the bunch.
All the people who are trying to be good and do the right thing are constantly hurt by the people with no regard for nature, no sympathy for life, no love in their hearts. I am all for people who can find that peace within themselves. I am all for people who can find their true path and stick to it. Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier and nicer if we could all have the trust that no one out there is out there to hurt us to get ahead? Wouldn't it be nice if we could all trust one another and live in unison with animals and nature? I reckon it would be great if we could all celebrate life together as one untited force.

I had a little laugh at myself in regards to the elephant analogy......

I not only see the elephant, i am riding it through town yelling "it's a big grey elephant people!!! Its big enough to hold us all, and we can all ride along on it, but you must acknowledge you are riding it and you must let everyone else ride it too!! It needs it's trunk, it needs its feet, it needs its tusks and it needs its tail, but its an elephant."

I'd like to think that one day people wont see the point in distroying another anilmals habitat to build another Shopping Centre for us to all to go to and buy things to fill the voids in our exitence with material objects. I'd like us to go , Oh wait a tic, we dont need all that crap, as long as we have food and shelter and someone to love... we are ok, and look, if we dont tear down those trees, something else gets to keep its food and shelter and look, it made little ones too!!.

i know that i am probably in dream land. Some days i think..... its never going to happen. Humans are never going to wake up to themselves and snap out of it. Its all very nice to hope they will but the reality is that people like me are just seen as Crazy or Idealic. Well maybe if enough people like me all wished it could be that simple, one day it might be...... I just hate seeing so much hurt in the world.

And i am realllllly happy to hear that experiments have been made to see if we really did grow from bacteria..... and apparently it aint possible without some sort of unexplained help....Well i am glad to know i can eliminate those thoughts from my mind. However it just makes me more determined that i am onto something here...

Thankyou all for listening so openly and not taking me the wrong way, i must admit i was feeling very vulnerable putting these thughts out here, i have told a few poeple about my thoughts, but i will be 100% honest, i have never confronted someone who has any deep religious beleifs, mainly because i know i haven't got it all sorted in my head so i am not in a place to argue my point, and i dont want to offend anyone. I think the best thing for me to do from here is to just learn more from this thread and the lovely ladies who continue to share.... i will learn more and ponder even more (which is VERY exhuasting LOL) and maybe in a few more months i will have Chapter II of Star Brights Theory.....

OOOhh, but before i go, i came up with another little analogy.....

Picture a school. We have a Principal, we have Teachers, we have students.
The principal is shall we say G-D, the teachers are the elements, and the mass population of people and anilmals are the students.
Now picture some of the teachers are on srtike coz their students stopped listening
There is a group of wayward students running a rampage in the school......
There are groups of students trying to learn, there are still some classes being taught, but they have to stay protected from the rampage... and even these lessons are only part of what could be learned, and the teachers arn't discussing what is being taught.....
There are groups of students who are just so lost they start causing trouble, they are not the rampage, but they just dont know any better.....
The library is always open, but some of the books have been distroyed
Some of the students are trying to do the right thing, but that rampage keeps finding them and hurting them.
And no one is taking roll call cause there is just too much confusion.

Another little spurt from my mind. Hope you enjoy it.

Thankyou again for your open mindness....
StarBright

Starbright, I think those who are deeply religious understand that others have their own faith and, while they may disagree, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to belittle another's beliefs: God judges, we shouldn't. I find the fanatics are very shaky in their faith, that is why they attack so much.

I actually think we can learn a LOT from other religions - not just our own - for example, Taoism teaches gentle acceptance, Buddhism that suffering can be helpful and the Muslim dedication to prayer is a great example to us all. I have brought many of the ideas (giving credit to various friends of other faiths) here to my Bible study group and we allagree that God gives us wisdom, it does not come from man, so we should not ignore wisdom because it sounds a bit different or makes us think.

Thanks Ryn,:)

i guess i have been a bit scared to talk to people who are actually practicing a religion they beleive in because as much as i appriciate what we can learn from different religions, i am unsure if the people i am learning from would be happy to know i think they only hold part of the jigsaw puzzle.

Does that make sense??

Especially at this stage of my journey, because by no means do i feel 100% confident in everything i "think" (as much as i might sound like i do) and i guess i sort of feel like i haven't got much behind me for them to respect, so i feel vulnerable.

Like you say people who are deeply religious do understand that other people have their own faith and can respect that, i suppose i am a bit scared that as i dont have a strong beleif in any one form of recognised religion, that maybe someone like me would be looked down upon.

I am glad to find that my fears have been unwarrented in here.
No one here has put me down or said i am silly, everyone has graciously allowed me to put my wacky thoughts out there, and allowed me to continue what i am thinking. I haven't had anyone try to convert me or tell me i am completely wrong, and i now have a few more things to think about.

Thanks
StarBright
xoxo

"I guess I think of it as a master painter if you will. His master piece used to sit on the mantle and it fell down and got messed up. God is working to fix the master piece and put it back on the mantle where it belongs. He could have started a new work of art but he loves the original and wants it back where he intended it." Quote

This is a quote i found in another thread- i liked it and i think it sums up what i feel. Just thought i would share.

Hi girls

DP and I were watching a movie based on Sept 11 (United 93) the other night, and it got me thinking about people's reactions to other religions after the terrorist attacks and more broadly.

I wonder if any of you have experienced, or know of anyone who has experienced, discrimination because of the religion you follow.

I grew up with parents who were Jehovah's Witnesses and I remember plenty of comments about missing out on birthdays and Xmas, but no actual teasing, or anything like that as a child. There was the occasional person who would get abusive at a JW adult in my presence.

But having seen on the Chaser the other week when Charles was asking Americans if they believed Muslims should be required to carry identification of identify themselves as such and the responses he was getting was a bit scary! Americans really have no clue sometimes, and the obvious parallels with the Jews in Nazi Germany clearly meant nothing to them.

Hope this is not too depressing a turn for this thread and if you guys don't want to open this one up, please feel free to shut me up!

Oh Jen, some of the Chaser asking Americans questions segments make me very worried too. I mean, I know every country has it's ignorant people...but ignorance is such a massive reason for discrimination.

When I was younger, my best friend's last name was Hassan and she really got some nasty comments during the Gulf War. But she was Christian, not Muslim.

I only knew Christians, Athiests and Sikhs as a child (and only one family of Sikhs), but never really thought too much about religion - only the athiests did that, and then only to attack people with any belief. Cripes, Americans are scarey when they believe they are thinking. Why are these people not able to make connections? I guess those who are won't appear on these shows as it just makes everyoe look bad, or didn't say anything controversial enough.

Well, that's what I hope Ryn, that they're asking heeeaps of people and just picking the most controversial answers.

I think it's a pretty sure bet they only aired the comments that reinforce the particular angle they're playing at ;) Otherwise, it wouldn't make very good tv, would it, if everyone had "normal" opinions. You've just got to look at some of the beautiful Americans and ex-pat Americans we've got here in this BB community to realise not all Americans are like that.

Yeah, Christine, I was thinking that. It's very easy for us to feel superior, but I bet you could make similar tv like that with Aussies. :p

i'm not sure if this question belongs in this section but, do any of you have any muslim/islamic prayers which can be read regularly to help when trying to get pregnant, or once pregnant stay pregnant?


sorry guys i know this post definately doesnt fit heer but it seems my pc has a mind of its own and is changing pages ooops!

That's ok Sofy! This thread has been about anything and everything to do with religion so you're fine to post here. It might help if you ask in the Islam section aswell though, you might get some more answers. Sorry, I can't help you!!!!