Playgroup Behaviour: Talking to other peoples kids. What do you think?

[Jus]

Hi, Hope I've put this in the right spot. The playgroup forum didn't seem the spot. sorry if it's wrong
Just wanted to start a discussion here on bellybelly to hear what everyone thinks.
Have been discussing with friends what we think, as first time mums, about how to interact with other people's kids at playgroup, and how we feel about them interacting with our children.
Was thinking about it already, cos don't want to get it wrong (I know it can cause so much grief between the adults...), and also want to be wise in socialising my own daughter.
Then had an incident yesterday, not overly concerning, just interesting which I really needed to process cos it upset me a little and I didn't know how I felt about it. Will relate and then would love to hear your thoughts - not just about my story in particular, but about how this works, ideally!
Have recently joined a really lovely playgroup with my 18 mo dd. It's a big group, and has a nice vibe and good interactions between kids & parents.

Yesterday during an activity my dd was saying 'no' and trying to prevent 2 other kids from accessing the thing she was playing with. She had a hand out and would have pushed them if they got close enough.
Now, obviously, that wasn't ok. She needed to share. But before I could deal with it, the other kids' mum quite sternly told her 'no, don't push'. And then again when it happened again.
I was a little surprised, cos I wouldn't have been that stern with another person's child. Her kids were also about 3/4 and 2, and bigger than my dd. In fact, I don't think I would have said much apart from 'let's all share' or 'we can all have a turn', or if she had pushed 'we don't push' - or told my child to say 'no' to her.
I think the thing that upset me most was that I didn't get a chance to discipline my own daughter.
I have no problem with being strict with behaviour (I'm a kindy teacher, so you have to have strict guidelines). dd was doing the wrong thing. However, she didn't know that yet, and is only little.

As I said, I'm not overly upset about it, it's just that I need to process it so I know what I think and what I would do in future, and also how best to relate to other people's kids

What does everyone else think?

Should I say something to the mum (if it ever happens again?). My feeling is not to, cos I think it would only cause unnecessary problems.

I'd just love to hear what you all think and have learned about how best to relate with other peoples' kids / what kind of expectations we should have.

Can't wait to hear all those good ideas

[Rach75]

when I first started goign to playgroup I would get offended if someone pulled jack up like that but now I have been going for 6mths or so I feel more at ease with it, as long as no-one lays a hand on jack I am fine if someone pulls him up, I even now will pull other kids up it did take me a while though, the other week I had to physically pull a child off Jack but those occasions are rare

I think just leave it...

[Rouge]

I think personally its really good to see other parents talking to your own children, I think too many times you see parents who go ballistic if anyone mentions anything to their children and in turn it they end up with challenging behaviour, as they do not respect anyone but their parents iykwim? I am happy for someone to be stern with my kids but if they yelled or touched them I wouldn't be happy. I am more like you in that I be gentler when approaching other children, but if its something I've said no about 10 times and they still won't listen or the parent won't get off their butt then I'll get firmer.

But to answer your overall question its such a personal thing, it really depends on what you are comfortable with.

[Jaycee]

Like Cai said, it really is a personal thing.
I must admit I get a little upset when people jump in and discipline my son before I've even had the chance to walk over there, but if I wasn't paying attention and didn't see the incident take place I would be ok with someone else telling him it wasn't nice to do that etc. I do have a problem with people being more stern than I usually am, my DS is 18 months as well and I feel that he is still learning the whole concept of sharing, being polite etc so there's no need to be stern, just a simple "no we don't do that" or "we need to share that" would be fine for a child of his age.
Hope that helps a little

[Lolli]

Thanks for starting this thread Jus, as you know I was thinking about this lately too.

In a way, it's nice to know there is that community feel to playgroup- parents feel comfortable pulling up kids on their behaviour, and you know that someone is always keeping an eye things. But if were me, and there was no immediate danger to my child (and as you said, your tiny dd is so match for a 3 yr old), and the other kids mum were standing right there, I would give the mum an oppurtunity to say something first before I stepped in, ykwim? And then i phrase it a bit more gently. And after that I'd probably throw the other mum a warm smile and make some remark about how funny and determined they are at that age to smooth things out.

Maybe this mum just isn't very tactful... I understand why it threw you a little, would have had the same effect on me.

[Just Me]

We try not to use negatives with our children so if I need to ever say anything to other people's kids about their behaviour I try to use a positive. If another child pushed my child I would say 'we are all keeping our hands and feet to ourselves' or 'gentle touches only' rather than 'don't push'. I don't think anyone can be offended with me if I keep it positive and firm.

I hate doing it, but sometime there is no choice because another child could potentially harm themselves or others with their behaviour and if there is no parent around, you have to. Generally, I wait to see if there is a parent to address the behaviour first.

If another parent addresses my child in a negative way, depending on how well I know them, I usually try and say that we use positives with our kids. I don't talk to my children by raising my voice and being overly stern (I am firm but not stern) so I don't like it when other people talk to my kids in a way that I wouldn't. If I don't know the other parent at all (like in a playground), I would just move on and not stay there. It is not much fun for kids when there is a parent who is very abrupt with other people's kids around anyway.

Just my thoughts

[Lulu]

I don't mind if someone is stern with my 2 (DS especially), in fact I think it reinforces the message if it's coming from someone else. DS is a cyclone and easily loses his temper, I really value it if someone else pulls him up if I'm across the room. (this doesn't happen all the time, he is quite the angel at kinder ).

ETA - having said that, I wouldn't want someone being horrible to him and I would not be happy if they were rude. Stern ok, if appropriate.

[DoubleK]

yeah i think its a persaonal thing.. and depends on the situation..

with our playgroup, there is 2 boys who always barge in and take toys off the other kids... now, majority of the time, the mums are off chatting, whereas i stay with DD and either play with her or stand and watch her play, but i dont take my attention off her. so it makes it hard if another child comes and snatches a toy off DD.. what do i say? DD isnt the type that would scream or snatch back, she is so placid, but i dont think its fair that she just misses out on playing with what she had first... usually i just say to her 'come on, come over here and play with.......' and take her to another activity.


argh, its a tough one... and i really dont know the answer!

[Emma1979]

i think possibly, rather than actually bringing it up with the other mum, if she was ever to say quite sternly again anything like that, you could chime in 'supporting' what she is saying but saying it GENTLER, more your style.... that way you are subtley giving hints about how you like to speak to your child, but at the same time backing up what the other mum was saying...

i think with playgroup you have to take it all with a grain of salt, there are always going to be people who do things differently, and as a part of a group you just have to accept it... as long as they are not mean or over the top to your child, just try to get on with it and set a good example of what you like yourself. at the end of the day i think its definitely a good thing for kids to be interacting with all different adults who all do things differently, it gives them experience and its all good for learning about social skills and people etc.

[~Saram~]

I agree it's OK if others correct my kids as long as it is in keeping with our values. We like to keep the positives rather than don't push or NO! If another person has to address my kids I generally like to follow it up - usually if you walk over and say something to your child like" ... what are you up to" I find most parents are quick to jump in with a "they were just having a squabble over such and such" which gives me a chance to reinforce with a gentle reminder like ... we share our toys. I will usually hover around and see if it's solved and if not either work through it or we will remove it's it's causing too much trouble.

More often than not I find I am the one dealing with other peoples kids as I find a lot of parents in public places like parks etc tend to turn a blind eye and ignore obnoxious behaviour. Which as others have said, I will usually just have agentle yet firm talk to them keeping it in the positive.

I am also a bit of a fan of letting kids work out things themselves once they have had some modelling/role playing how to share and stuff, I think if there is constantly a adult in the midst solving all the problems kids don't get the chance to experience things themselves

[Lulu]

with our playgroup, there is 2 boys who always barge in and take toys off the other kids... now, majority of the time, the mums are off chatting, whereas i stay with DD and either play with her or stand and watch her play, but i dont take my attention off her. so it makes it hard if another child comes and snatches a toy off DD.. what do i say? DD isnt the type that would scream or snatch back, she is so placid, but i dont think its fair that she just misses out on playing with what she had first... usually i just say to her 'come on, come over here and play with.......' and take her to another activity.

Hmm, I think the best thing you could do is ask the child to give the toy back and say "we don't snatch darling" etc. I don't think you should let it go, I'm not sure what that is teaching DD iykwim? Don't panic about what the parents would say, it's about teaching your child fairness, good manners and confidence.

Other parents can be a bit scary sometimes - and for that matter so can some kids

[Just Me]

i think possibly, rather than actually bringing it up with the other mum, if she was ever to say quite sternly again anything like that, you could chime in 'supporting' what she is saying but saying it GENTLER, more your style.... that way you are subtley giving hints about how you like to speak to your child, but at the same time backing up what the other mum was saying...

Great idea! I like this

I am also a bit of a fan of letting kids work out things themselves once they have had some modelling/role playing how to share and stuff, I think if there is constantly a adult in the midst solving all the problems kids don't get the chance to experience things themselves

I think this is good too. Kids just become a bit whingy if adults always step in and solve everything for them all the time.

I don't think you should let it go, I'm not sure what that is teaching DD iykwim? Don't panic about what the parents would say, it's about teaching your child fairness, good manners and confidence.

I think this is a good point too. Letting things go when they should be sorted doesn't teach kids good self worth. Modelling good conflict resolution is such an important skill (and one I think many people have missed out on).

The only other thing that I would add is that if I have ever had to correct someone else's child, I always try to back it up with some praise if they do the right thing. I don't want the other kids at playgroup to be scared of me and think that I am mean either. I back up instructions that I give my own kids with praise when they follow through, so I try to apply the same to other people's kids. It keeps the atmosphere light and positive.

If a child doesn't follow an instruction then I try to pick a child that is and give them some praise (Wow 'Conor', I really like the way you are sharing that toy with 'Josie'). This often works usually because kids that consistently ignore adult instructions are just craving some attention. Giving out praise is a great way to engage them and feed their need for attention in a healthy way (rather than feeding their attention seeking behaviour by giving them negative attention - any kind of attention will do so they don't care if they are getting into trouble).

Also don't underestimate the power of restating the instruction in a calm voice a couple of times, especially if a child starts to argue with you. (Probably some of the teacher in me coming out now )

[Visitor8]

I think it's a good thing. I do it. I must admit I am never stern the first time a child does something. If they do it again like you DD did then I get stern. I don't believe in pussyfooting around things. A relative of mine does it with his DD. She climbs on things that could cause her serious harm and he says "no darling hop down" and she never listened. She would snatch/hit whatever and all she got was "darling don't do that" in the softest tone. Firm and serious words come across better than soft subtle stuff. If my boys are misbehaving in any way I am firm with the way I speak to them. I have no problem with other people pulling them up on their behaviour if they were to be naughty.

At 18 months, your DD should know that pushing isn't allowed. Yes she is little so sharing is a thing that is still being learnt at that age but physical violence is something that at 18 months she should already know is not ok.

I hope I haven't offended you. Just wanted to give my opinion on it all and say that I would probably have done the same thing as that lady. I know it's like a kick in the gut when someone tells your kids off at the start.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I do it - if the Mum isn't looking or moving over. And I appreciate other mums doing it if I'm having a chat.

I tend to say "would it be a good idea to...?" rather than "do this! don't do that!" - but some children don't listen to that. The parents usually step in at some point, especially if the child is rough because they know that and keep an eye out. I have to keep an eye on DS atm because he's at the "mine, mine, mine!" stage.

I discipline differently to DH, differently to Nursery, differently to my Mum... and differently to other parents. DS should learn that not everyone does things the same as me but it's still OK.

I only step in if DS is upsetting someone or getting upset - he is able to deal with life issues himself. Occasionally.

[Jus]

Thanks for all the thoughtful answers so far. I've really appreciated everyone's experience and perspective - lots of food for thought.

I (like most of you) have no problem with being stern. I am myself (Kindy teacher from way back, who was renowned for saying it like it is, and I can't say i'm much different with my own dd) - you have to set boundaries, and you have to be clear (not too much faffing around in the language you use or you confuse them), and you have to praise.

In response to some of your comments, I have no problem with someone telling dd off if she's doing the wrong thing & it's not the first time it's happened. I think I didn't agree with the mum jumping in so fast. I wasn't on the other side of the room, I was with dd, and didn't have a chance to speak - it was that fast. So I didn't appreciate that. I would have said exactly the same stuff to dd, and added on a positive as well (as many of you have mentioned). I just feel it was a bit rude to jump in so hard when I was right there. Also I would be gentler with another person's kid, especially if I don't know them or the parent. You can be gentle and still mean it / say it like it is. Kids can tell. Just like they can tell when you don't mean it.

At 18 months, dd is still learning appropriate behaviour, which is obviously that's one of the reasons we're at playgroup. She didn't actually push the other kids (didn't have a chance - not that I'm justifying it for that reason either) - I would have been even sterner if she had. They were also twice her size so she wouldn't've achieved much. Again, not that that makes it OK either. By jumping in so fast, I think I also felt (not rational I know) that the other mum was implying that dd was the playgroup bully (which she isn't, just another normal kid) and that I wasn't disciplining (which I couldn't cos I had no chance).

On the flip side of it, one of my friends is teaching her dd (who's a bit of a gentle soul) to say "No" or "No I don't like that" when she's the recipient of rough behaviour or toys are snatched from her. Obviously as well as modeling good sharing and turn-taking. I thought that was a good idea, cos it's not retaliatory but it is giving the kid a chance to learn some self-protection/boundaries for themselves.

[Jus]

Great idea! I like this



I think this is good too. Kids just become a bit whingy if adults always step in and solve everything for them all the time.

I think this is a good point too. Letting things go when they should be sorted doesn't teach kids good self worth. Modelling good conflict resolution is such an important skill (and one I think many people have missed out on).


Also don't underestimate the power of restating the instruction in a calm voice a couple of times, especially if a child starts to argue with you. (Probably some of the teacher in me coming out now )

We call this 'broken record'. works a treat.

I really appreciated your suggestions Townsvillgirl

[Jus]

Hey all,
just wanted to add how much i've appreciated thinking through all your comments about how you approach interactions at playgroup. There are so many good ideas that you've given me, which is really what I wanted this conversation to be about, not focusing much on the thing that happened for me the other day.

I love thinking thru how to approach stuff, and it helps me the most when I hear what other people do. That way I feel like I'm making conscious decisions about parenting and modeling good relationship skills in my family, and can evaluate how they fit with my worldview, not just doing what my family might have (unwittingly) programmed me to do!

You guys have so much wisdom to offer. Thanks again! I'd love anyone else's further thoughts too. Hope you've found this interesting ...