urgent help needed fast!

[ShanJakson]

Hi ladies,
I have a 2.5 year old son and a 7 week old daughter. Our son is a fantastic sleeper but out 7 week old is a nightmare!! She is feeding every 3 to 3.5hrs and taking both sides and content afterwards. Her problem is sleeping. I wrap her up and she falls asleep nearly instantally, but when I put her down she only stays asleep for 5 minutes, max 10. Sometimes she will get to 20minues but rarely. I keep having to resettle her all the time, which as you can imagine is hard with a toddler also. I have tried to let her have a little cry to see if she will settle, but no luck. I have also tried getting her up after the 20mins she has and putting her in the car, swing or pram to encourage more sleep before the next feed, but no luck either. She just won't sleep!!!! I am going insane. She sleeps wonderfully overnight. She will finally fall asleep at night around 7.30pm and only wake once around 3-4am and then straight back to sleep until 7am.
Please help me work out why she won't sleep during the day before I go mad...... many thanks in advance
shannon

[Jas]

Hi,

A few weeks ago I was in this exact same position!!!! And even 20mins would have been amazing!!! From say 7am-7pm Spence would sleep about 1hr total all broken! I read books I googled I did everything I could, although I appreciate mums who use slings a lot its not something I really wanted to do, one day I was getting desperate and my mum said why dont u just relax sit on the lounge watch a movie or tv and let Spence have a rest on you so that at least we both get a rest an he gets some sleep (it was Noah's sleep time) this actually help and after being asleep with me for wuite a while i just sat him on the lounge and he stayed asleep and did for another45mins this was a massive victory at the time

sleep creates sleep so even though wearing bubs in a sling might not be something u want long term just for a little while it might help get a routine going. At the time it was stressful and I felt like it would never end! EVER! But weeks on Spence is in a great routine he only sleeps about an hr at a time but is on a almost to the minute 3hr routine and sleeps 9hrs at night and then another 3 about so he is going really well.

It sounds like u may have a similar experience to me ds1 slept 12hr a night from 4days old and was a very sleepy baby for day naps so sleep wasnt really a planned thing or something i had to work towards, I think if its a sling that works for a bit then go for it at least it frees you up a bit then maybe once the sleeps are longer, even if it only takes helf a day and then try going back to the cot/ basinette etc and see if the sleep creates sleep thing works.

I think ultimately it is whatever works for you and really it is something bubs will grow out and it will all feel like a distant memory, the other thing that I find works is putting bubs down awake and let them fall asleep in the sot instead of rocking to sleep, using music, patting, shhhhing (I used shh shh shh just said it over and over to put spenc eto sleep and it becomes a sleep cue so then sometimes when he is stirring or if he has been rocked to sleep or moved while asleep i can say it while i put him down and it resettles,

HTH

[PinkPalace]

hi there!

my paed gave me the best advice. (i had 2 under 15 months).

He said regardless of whether they are tired or not, wrap and put them to bed EVRY 1.5hr-2hrs.
yes it makes for a boring social life but, as soon as i started doing this - he was sleeping so much better during the day.

for ex.
if he slept 8am -8.40am - he would be back in bed by 930.
if he slept 8am -9.20am - he would be back in bed by 10.

never ever kept him up longer than 2 hrs - even if it meant he was only awke for 40mins at a time.

also try to keep to a strict routine,

DS also was colic and reflux (he was waking every 2 hours through the night too until 5months).
ANd i found i had to keep him upright as long as i could after a feed . Otherwise would get upset with wind and reflux pain.

i dont mean to say this is the same, but it helped.
I invested in a cradle swing and i would sit up right in that after a feed with a slight rock (to help burp) while i needed spare hands with my toddler.

the other thing i did was sleep on his belly from 2 weeks.
This helped him settle a heap better.

it is really trial and error. BUt yep for sure the 1.5-2hr rule worked a absolute treat for us, he got into routine and has been a dream ever since with his sleeping.

HTH

[Fleur]

Hi SHannon. I have a 4 week old who is a bit similar. She gets rocked or patted to sleep & usually wakes as soon as she is put down. And she also sleeps very well at night.

What I do find is that the longer I hold her & let her get into a deep sleep, the longer she will sleep when she is put down.
Are you wrapping her?
Also sometimes I will put her in her rocker & rock her for a bit after she is put down, that helps to get her in a deeper sleep & stay asleep.


Sorry I don't have any easy answers... it's all a bit of trial & error in these early days! Hope you find something that works for you soon.

[ShanJakson]

hey thanks for your quick replies. i have a sling that she falls asleep in instantally, but don't want to do that for each sleep coz won't she then only fall alseep in the sling and never by herself? yes i am wrapping her.

[Janie]

Trust me, although she might like sling, she won't do it forever . If it's what works for now, then go with it. More important that she gets the sleep (and you the rest!). I spent many an hour sitting with my DS in my arms, or with him sleeping in a sling, just so he would SLEEP! He now sleeps by himself just fine

[Olive]

how long is she up between sleeps?? i second PP with putting down after a short amount of time, before they show tired signs and you miss the boat

[ShanJakson]

she is up for abour 1.5hrs before i put her back down again. if i try and put her down earlier she won't go to sleep, but later she is a rightoff!
is it bad to let her sleep in my arms until she is in a deep sleep, say 20mins and then put her down? will i create a bad habit?

[Olive]

you cant spoil her at this age! do what you need to do hun!!
1.5 hrs is alot maybe try 75 mins then out her down

[Chocaholic]

Don't worry about creating bad habits at the moment. In another couple of weeks it will all change again (usually about 4 months old for my boys).

Good luck and go with what works

[MantaRay]

Everyone will always tell you that you are creating bad habits. But it just doesn't work like that. Babies might feed to sleep, co-sleep or be rocked to sleep for a while - it just doesn't doesn't mean that they always need to sleep that way. My boys both spent months being fed to sleep - but when I wasn't there and when they weaned they were fine to go to sleep in a different way. It really doesn't set up a habit. To me it's' like an adult - most nights I sleep in my own bed, but if I am away from home I can sleep in a different bed too.

[Toomanytoomany]

hey thanks for your quick replies. i have a sling that she falls asleep in instantally, but don't want to do that for each sleep coz won't she then only fall alseep in the sling and never by herself? yes i am wrapping her.

no, she won't always. She's telling you right now that she needs to be close to you. Given that she sleeps brilliantly overnight, I wouldn't stress that you are setting up 'bad' habits.

[singledad]

I use to have problems when my boy was that age. I couldn't keep him alseep as soon as I put him down. Seems like ages ago now, but he would fall asleep in my arms with no problems but soon as i would put him down he would wake up. So I started just calming him in my arms then before he fell asleep putting him back down then patting him and softly running my fingers across his face and head till he was asleep. Worked wonders for me.

[MummyNaomi]

is it bad to let her sleep in my arms until she is in a deep sleep, say 20mins and then put her down? will i create a bad habit?

I would call this a 'loving habit'. I almost always rock/cuddle Bailey to sleep and will continue to do so until he will no longer let me (I can see him at 18yo telling me it's just not working anymore LMAO). Get those precious cuddles in while you can, they grow up too quickly, and enjoy the few moments of getting to sit and relax yourself

[Fleur]

As I type this DD2 is lying on my chest. Have been trying to put her down since 8:30 this morning & it's just not happening today. She sleeps but wakes as soon as she is put down. Sometimes you've just got to throw your hands up & do what works.

And I second that 'enjoy it while it lasts'. They definitely grow too fast! (Until they are teenagers, then they don't grow fast enough lol).

[ShanJakson]

hi, thankyou all so much for replying.
i took Mia to the doctors today and he said she is hungry. she hasn't put on any weight for 2 weeks. i fed her 30mins before the doctors and when we were in there she was sucking on my finger like she hadn't been fed. he said she needs to have a comp feed after every breastfeed. if i can express great, but otherwise formula. i feel so terribly guilty that i don't have enough milk for my little girl. i fed her at 1.30pm and then offered her a bottle and she took 80mls!! she has been asleep now for over 1.5hrs!! my poor bub was hungry. i feel so stupid i can't believe it. the doctor said to me breastfeeding is lovely, but it isn't lovely at the moment the way we are going. i still want to keep feeding her but am worried that she will be more satisfied with the bottle that she will no longer want to nurse from me.
thanks again

[CrazyLady]

As long as you offer the bottle AFTER breastfeed to top up bub's tummy little miss shouldn't prefer the bottle. Pretty sure your milk supply should increase in a little if you make sure she drains the breastmilk.

[Acacia]

It's very stressful when you find out your baby is not putting on weight and you doctor is telling you that she is hungry, but please don't feel guilty, Shan. You are not stupid! You have been doing a wonderful job, especially doing what you need to do to find out why Mia won't settle very well. Learning what a baby needs in the early days is so very hard - so much of it is learning and guessing early on - it happens to us all

You can certainly offer formula or expressed milk after a breastfeed, however many mums often find that before too long their babies find milk from a bottle is easier and can sometimes refuse the breast, as it is harder work for them. It can also mean that your own milk supply can suffer as you body learns to make more milk the more often Mia feeds and the more milk she removes from your breast. The less milk she takes from the breast, the less you will make.

You want to do everything possible to ensure that Mia is growing and putting on weight and is healthy and top-ups are one way of doing this, but you can do this just with breastfeeding too!

It's very normal for BF babies to cluster feed, especially around the age that Mia is. This is where they just want to have feed after feed, often less than an hour between feeds, and sometimes even just wanting to stay attached for hours. It is very normal, and it's a baby's way of making sure that you can increase your milk supply to match their needs to keep growing. I remember when my baby did this when she was a little bit over 6 weeks old. In the end I stayed in bed with her for two days straight, and just fed her every time she woke up, which was often only 10 minutes after I had put her to sleep! I know this is very hard to do when you have another little man running around your house and needing your attention - do you have someone who can help and keep your son entertained or take him out for a walk or an activity at times?

It's also very normal for young breastfed babies to feed as often as 10-12 times in 24 hours. This means that every 2 hours, sometimes less, sometimes more is roughly how long many babies can go before the need another breastfeed at Mia's age. Feeding her more frequently is definitely a way to also boost your milk supply to meet her needs. Could you try feeding her every 2 hours, (or whenever she stirs from sleep, if it is sooner than 2 hours) for a few days (yes, it's very hard work!) and see how you go from there?

How often is Mia feeding for on each side? Sometimes babies can come off the breast for a few minutes break before wanting to go back on again, so if she's been on the breast for only a few minutes before stopping, you can definitely try and put her back on the same side again. This can ensure she is getting as much milk as she needs, and that your breasts are being emptied well. You could aim for 20 minutes (each side, if she will take it!) and then you will know that she has had a full feed, and that's she's emptied your breasts well. You may even find that if you offered her a bottle after this time, she may not even need to take it.

Just thought I would offer some things that you can do to ensure that you don't need to rely on top-ups (formula or expressed milk) to give Mia the milk she needs, if you don't want to. It is very hard work (and I don't even have a 2.5 year old son!) breastfeeding a small baby in the early days, but you are doing a *fantastic* job - you just need to keep going and offering her more feeds, more often for longer and your milk supply should be able to meet her needs. It will always come down to the more milk that comes out of your breasts, the more you will make. Expressing means removing milk from your breast, but a baby can much more effectively remove milk than a pump can. Expressing is also a lot of extra hard work, and it is far easier to simply let Mia get extra breast milk by feeding more frequently.

You could also try ringing the ABA (Australian Breastfeeding Association) on 1800mum2mum for some more support for what you're going through, and there's so many lovely ladies here on BB - many of whom have been in your position - having a toddler and trying to establish breastfeeding in the early days - who can support you and help you.

Hope this is helpful, and please remember that whatever choices you make to feed Mia, you are a GREAT mum for doing everything you can to ensure she is healthy and happy, and most importantly, growing.


Miss C