Gosh, where do I start? This will be a bit rambling, as I just have to get it out.
Well yesterday DD1 (who is 4), sent me off the rails. It all started with her not wanting the food that was on offer for an afternoon snack. She was hungry (well she is always hungry, but barely eats), but did not want anything. The rule here is, if you are hungry grab and apple or banana. But no, she wanted something else. So it went on from there, she followed me around the house screaming and crying that she was hungry. Would not let me go anywhere, started to hit me, all the while I was explaining to her that she should eat what she is given and if she is still hungry she can have fruit. It just kept on going, I turned the TV off, so that just made it worse. She was going off wanting the TV back on. I told her to go to her room, but she refused. In the end I spanked her she still did not stop. I picked her up and put her in her room. She still screamed. I ended up holding her tight in an effort for me not to hit her again. By that time I was also screaming at her. I could not get through to her that if she is quiet, stops screaming, she can come back out. She was hysterical, so I just had to walk out.
Sorry trying to type this with difficulting as she is behind me screaming that wants something else to eat. She refused her lunch, so followed me around the house and yard screaming for chocolate instead. She has since had some food (yoghurt and a rice cake with cream cheese), but is now carrying on that she wants something else.
I can't deal with it anymore. If we say no to anything, it results in a tantrum. She does not want to go home straight from playgroup, so the screaming starts in the car. She wants KFC on the way home from playgroup (there is one across the road), so the screaming starts before we even leave. She does not want lunch at home, does not want to go home etc. When we do get home, she refuses to help pick up, screams when ever the TV is off, or just not on a channel she wants to watch. Wont come outside with us, or if she does she wants out attention the whole time. Her current trick is to go out when we are coming in and wants us to watch her swing.
She has gotten so bad with her defiance, that even when we do say yes, she does not hear it and goes straight into screaming.
You are probably wondering why we say no a lot, well she demands a lot. Just a trip home from town will either have her asking to visit someone, eat somewhere, go look at toys etc. It is just a stream, you no to one and the next demand is just fired at you. I would love to surprise her, or just reward her for not demanding, but never get that chance. I have days where I have planned to take her somewhere, but she has ruined it by demanding it. I do try to explain to her why we always do what she wants, but it does not seem to sink in.
She was terrible at the shops, always wanting toys, so we implemented a coin system. At the end of the day DH will talk to her about all the good and bad things she has done and give her a few coins accordingly. She is saving up for a toy that she really wants. We have found that this helps with the demands at the shops and she looks forward to her coints at night. The downside is if there a no coins (like yesterday), it results in a mega tantrum.
It is now like the boy who cried wolf around here. Her screaming and carrying on about the slightest thing, now has us ignoring them. So if she does actually hurt herself, we can't tell and often work it out later. I had one day where she was in her room, so I changed the tv channel, I heard this almighty holler from her room, I rushed in as I really thought she was badly hurt, but not it was just due to me changing the channel on a tv that she was not even watching.
No advice but god she sounds exactly like Aricyn Lots of sympathetic hugs to you - we should swap one day I think, although I'm sure he would drive you just as batty as he does me!
Your doing a wonderful job, it's so hard not to loose it at times they just push and push and push until finally we snap and the do get a smack, as a last resort.
I know you are doing the coin thing which is fantastic and its great that she looks forward to getting her coin at night-provided she has behaved. Have you though about doing a rewards chart to coincide with the coin giving at the end of the day....so she can stick stickers on here chart throughout the day to reward the good behaviour then at the end of the day she can count up her stickers and you can give her the coins based on our many stickers she has, if she is naughty then take a sticker off...ykwim?
I really hope DD starts to understand soon what she is doing is wrong and not only that her behaviour is unsetting you too.
Ohh hun, sending loads of hugs, I dont have much to offer in way of help, unless maybe you devise a new system that you can stick on the wall or something and give her a gold star everytime she listens, and then say to her that at the end of the week if she has done really well with being good she will get a reward, such as the money your DH is giving her at night, but only at the end of the week.
When my kids are naughty at the shops, I tell them before hand, when we get to the shops if you are naughty we will go straight back home. I have had to do that with my DS1 when he was little and just walked back out of the shopping centre and back home.
Not sure if will be of any help, but goodluck anyway on finding a solution that works. hugs
Miss 3.5 - drives me bonkers here. I still have no idea why people call them the terrible twos as it seems like everything since then has been very challenging. I have tried to keep things focused on the positives and try to expect her to behave as I wish - so moving on pretty briskly with a simple 'Let's go' -however it is virtually impossible some days!
You sound like you are doing a fab job - it can seem like it is a relentless and often thankless task. Take care. xxx
Just wait until they become teenagers. I am continuously banging my head over here with mine. Its funny they seem to go through stages. As for the terrible twos, it seemed to happen after the age of two for me and my 4, but the good news is it gets better, as I said until they hit teenage hood, then it feels like your back at square one.
I have no advice either but my Ds3 is the same when it comes to the tv. If it isn't on his channel he carries on and whines and screams..
I end up turning the tv off and putting him in his room which bugs me more because I wanted to watch something. I have given him a good smack for it as well but it makes no difference so I try not to smack (don't always succeed) Yelling is something I really need to work on but sometimes I get so frustrated.
I have been thinking a bit more about her behaviour. My heart really does break for her at times, I wish we were in the position to always give her what she wants, but we just can't. She is also missing out on being part of this family.
For example, with her refusual to go outside. Well she misses out on family time, a time when I am happy to push her on the swing, she can collect the eggs, pick flowers etc. She won't come out though, then as we are packing up to go in and start dinner, she strides out. She has changes clothes, put on a jacket and shoes, already to go. She is then so upset as she wanted to collect eggs and do other things. She was also doing this as playgroup, refusing to be part of the signing as she was playing, then as we were going she would cry as she wanted to sing. We had a hard time then of getting her to understand that if she does not go when asked she misses out. The old supervisior used to give in and do a quick song with her, so every week we got the same tantrum. The new one is much tougher, so now she does singing when told to. Pity we can't get the message through to her at home. She just wants it all.
The silly thing is, she is not even that happy when she does get what she wants. If I play with her, she watches the TV whilst I build with the blocks. If she gets a happy meal, she wants what we are eating. Whilst she is doing something fun, she is going on about what are we going to do tomorrow. She just can't enjoy the moment for what it is. Birthday parties are no fun, as of course she does not want to leave, or she is sulking about something that did not go her way.
I understand part of it is just that she is young and still learning, but she is just so extreme compared to other kids. She needs to learn that no means no, and not keep on going.
I have had an idea Astrid, why dont you get her to make a face or something with the fruit, before she eats it. What I mean is get her to help create a face, or create a fruit kebab or something so she looks forward to eating it. Just a thought, it might have her more interested in eating her creation. Maybe get her to choose the fruit she likes to do the creating.
Sending more hugs.
all i can think of is giving her choices(but it appears you probably are) snack she has a choice of friut or a cracker with cheese, playgroup we sit and sing or we go home(if singing is at the end)
i find DS gets upset when really tired or hungry so i try and pre empt those times. not sure if your DD still will have a sleep in the afternoons but on our big days i convince DS to have a nap. wealso dont limit food access (unless something is low )so if they are hungry they can have food be it sandwiches yoghurt fruit or crackers, im happy for them to eat when their bodies say thay are hungry rather then when i tell them they are..
maybe going back to some toddler type parenting will help with the tantys(although you can talk normally)
highly recommend you get a flower remede from lulu for you!!
My heart goes out to you, I can just imagine how frustrated you must be.
Itsounds like she is testing boundaries and trying to figure out how much control she has, but from what you've said it's not what she really wants. Sounds like she's so focussed on the battle, but possibly what she really needs is the consistency you're trying to give her. She is just struggling against it for now. Or has this been going on for a long time?
Do you have set routine?
Maybe if you tell dd "in half an hour we are going to go outside (when the timer goes off, when the big hand is on the 12, whatever) but we can only stay out for an hour (again, I find "when the timer goes off" to be a brilliant tool, makes it indisputable) and then we have to come inside. lets put your jacket and shoes on now so that you are ready to collect the eggs. If she only comes out with 5 minutes to spare you still go in when the timer on your phone or whatever goes off, and she'll know for tomorrow.
It's hard when they make you so tense, it becomes impossible to enjoy them.
I'm guessing consistency is the key, and making sure she understands what is coming next at all times, but I don't know from experience. I hope someone else has words of wisdom for you.
Hugs and luck to you. Not looking forward to dd hitting this stage,
I'm sorry but I'm no help at all but after having a shocking day yesterday too I just wanted to send you a massive . This mothering is so incredibly hard. You are doing an amazing job. I truely hope one of the ladies will be able to give you a tip to help you.
I have been where you are.... it does get better she will start to understand... it does normally take, a very strong teacher type person to knock it into them... Kindy will help next year, and even better school the year after... ATM she is testing the bounderys and waiting for a weak spot...
your sweet little girl will come back to you, soon, until til then keep doing what your doing, as its the only thing you can do... if there is ever a small little ' good ' thing even if it is very small, be very quick to notice and reward it...
My DD2 is very similar. Only she is a very loud child in every way. It is hard..darn near impossible to do the right thing. You can't just give in whenever she asks. You know that.
I also feel bad for DD, but she is sooo demanding. I have started to wait til she calms down (& I do) & explain to her that when I say no, its no. That simple. Crying won't change it. Of course it goes in one ear & out the other, but hopefully one day it'll sink in.
Not only is she loud & demanding, but so rowdy. She is constantly holding onto the little boys, who are all walking, or picking them up, or just getting right up in their faces. She is clumsy, especially around DS & she also just gets louder & louder til you give in just to shut her up!
The only advise I have is patience. But I don't have much of it myself, so I'm pretty sure you are having trouble with it.
Just know that you are not alone. I too smack on occasion (usually when she refuses to stop annoying the little kids) & yell & scream (thinking it will make her hear me ...maybe even listen). This too shall pass... If it doesn't we can go cry & rock in a corner together
My DS1 does this kind of thing too: 'I want cheese. No, not that cheese, that one' and then when I get the other one; 'No NOT that one, THAT one' (pointing to the original cheese). 'No not cut like that' etc etc. When I realise that he is being difficult for the sake of it I say, nope, that's it, I'm not having this conversation anymore, you can have this peice of cheese that I already cut, or no cheese at all. If he doesn't take the cheese, I pack it all away in the fridge and walk away. He will usually have a meltdown and come running after me, crying for these cheese that got put away. I say firmly but calmly, 'I'll get these cheese back out (or whatever it is he wants) when you stop crying'. I'll repeat myself once, and then ignore him until he calms down. When he calms down I offer him the original piece of cheese and a cuddle. I will also usually stop whatever I'm doing at that point and spend some time with him (ONLY if he calms down, and NEVER before or he will think he can get attention by starting to be difficult) because I have found that the trigger for this kind of behaviour is usually that he's needing some attention and some one-on-one time or a quiet cuddle with mum at the end of a hectic day.
At first his meltdowns would go on and on, but now that he knows the drill - that he gets no cheese (or whatever he's on about) and no attention if he carries on, his being-difficult-on-purpose episodes are much fewer and they are also much quicker and easier to nip in the bud.
What do you think your daughter is trying to get or achieve? Is it possible to give her whatever that is? I mean, without waiting until you can give it as a reward for being good, just give it and see if that helps make her easier to live with. I don't mean give in to one of her demands at the time she's carrying on, because that would reinforce her negative behaviour; what I mean is, figure out what it is that is beneath her behaviour (eg you might figure out it's more one-on-one time with you) and give her some of that.
It sounds to me like she needs to feel like she has more control over some things. We're often scared as parents of letting our kids run the show, but when everything in your life is determined by someone/something else, it can be very frustrating for young children. I don't think it's a bad thing to let kids exercise some control over the day's proceedings, as long as they learn to ask for what they want in a socially acceptable manner (ie, not by kicking and screaming), and can accept that their requests won't always be met. I like the recommendation of around 1/3 of the day determined by the parent, 1/3 determined by the child, and the other 1/3 is negotiated. This way kids learn 4 things: 1. sometimes they don't have a choice & must do as their parents direct; 2. what they want is important and will be listened to if they ask in an appropriate way; 3. how to present a convincing argument for what they want when there is conflict (an important life skill) and 4, how to negotiate, win small concessions, and accept another person 's point of view (another important life skill). I do this with my son and now he's become: very co-operative and accepting that things don't always go his way (98% of the time lol); very good at asking for what he wants; and a skilled negotiator (I love watching him do this.. half the time I'm so I'm happy to give him what he's asked for because he's impressed me with his creativity and ability to think about what I would like in return for giving him what he wants).
If she sees that you're prepared to negotiate with her, but only when she does so in an appropriate way, she might start to be a) more pleasant in her approach, and b) more content in general and less demanding.
HTH.. sorry for such a long post or if it's not on the right track. Best of luck.
Last edited by skeetaboat; October 27th, 2009 at 10:13 PM.
The only thing I can think of is looking up Alfie Kohn's website - lots of articles and references to his book that I've also read ( and really helped me sort out my own childhood as well as consolidate my approach to dealing with my own kids).
Another thing I've found that works really well to increase positive behaviour & decrease the negative stuff is to be quick with positive and negative reinforcement. Eg - she leaves kinda without a fuss, say right away, 'I think we'll go to KFC because I'm so happy that you were a good girl and didn't cry about going home today'. Or another example with my son: he tried to bring play doh into the loungerrom when he knows it's a kitchen toy 'right, I'm packing the play-doh away because you brought it into the loungeroom.' Then 2 mins later I asked if he wanted to play with the play-doh in the kitchen. When he brought it back into the loungeroom, I repeated the same process (and maybe a third time? can't remember). When he finally started to play with it in the kitchen & didn't bring it into the loungeroom, I gave him a square of chocolate & told him how happy I am that he's being a good boy & playing with the play-doh in the kitchen. Doing these small but immediate responses to his behaviour seems to help him learn the appropriate behavioiur pretty quickly & stamp out the negative stuff.
Maybe next time she asks for something you can say 'ok, because you did X (no matter how small initially) and I'm very happy with you for that', or 'no, because you did X and girls who do X don't get Y'. But try to do the former more so than the latter.. you want her to catch on that she gets what she wants when she behaves well, and she won't figure that out until she actually does get things she wants by behaving well. Once she starts to understand the way it works you can bring in the 'no, because you did X and girls who do X don't get Y' in response to negative behaviour. I think it's always good to try to keep it positive, even when responding to the negative behaviour. So when I say no, at the end I'll say something like, 'but we're going shopping this afternoon, so if you're good when we go shopping, then you can have <whatever has been requested>. Then before we arrive at the shops i'll reinforce it: 'remember you didn't get to do X because you did Y this morning?' (wait for acknowledgement), 'ok, but we're going shopping now and if you're a good boy and stay with me without running away while we shop, then afterwards we can do X. How does that sound?'
Sorry.. another long & rambling post. I hope something in there is useful. Keep us posted.
Reply With QuoteLots of sympathetic hugs to you - we should swap one day I think, although I'm sure he would drive you just as batty as he does me!
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Can't deal with my 4yo anymore
she still did not stop. I picked her up and put her in her room. She still screamed. I ended up holding her tight in an effort for me not to hit her again. By that time I was also screaming at her. I could not get through to her that if she is quiet, stops screaming, she can come back out. She was hysterical, so I just had to walk out.
's to you.
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