Help! Disciplining a brat!

[Mum2SweetCs]

Hi All,
Desperately need your help and experiences. DD 19mths have decided if she cannot get what she wants she will screech and then cry until she vomits.

This happens nearly every 5 minutes, then once she gets it she stops crying immediately.

We have tried the going down to her level and telling her no in a nice calm voice but seriously, its not working!

I have tried naughty corner. She stands there but continues to cry ....

Distraction sometimes works

We have tried slapping her on the hand (i know some parents dont condone this) but still it doesnt work although she does shut up when DH says he will slap her on the hand again and he doesnt have to do it but i dont want to go down this path (ie scared of being slapped).

What do you do to discipline a brat that has worked for you?

Thank you all!

[Junglemum]

I don't think she is being a brat at all, just being 19 months. I found it a pretty challenging time with my DD. It is the age where they are beginning to figure out they have a bit of control over their lives.
I highly recommend you have a read of Pinky's "Toddler Tactics". Just understanding why she is behaving like that makes things easier, and i found it gave me more patience.

I use distraction A LOT! It doesn't always work but seems to be most effective at this age.
The other thing i find important is consistency. It is the beginning of a challenging age and we're only half way through, but i have found things a bit easier in the last couple of weeks.

[Janie]

I agree with Falguni, she doesn't sound like a brat, just a normal toddler . I too found that when my DS was that age it was quite tough. By about 21 months things were a little better, and they improved ALOT after he turned 2. I have also found 'Toddler Tactics' to be a helpful book, just in understanding why he behaves in certain ways.

Distraction is definitely the ticket here!!!! And yes, I completely agree that consistency is really important. It can be hard some days, but it is certainly worthwhile.

[BellyBelly]

I agree with what Falguni has said... and a great idea to get pinky's toddler tactics, and/or what used to be called the science of parenting, 'what every parent needs to know' by margot sunderland. Loads of sections on behaviour and useful tools. And they will both explain that your little one has a very underdeveloped brain (only been on the planet less than 2 years!) which is developing all the time. Your child doesn't know how to deal with storms of emotions (just like we feel as adults, just not as much!) and it's your job to help them deal with it, teach them how to calm themselves down - or you can end up with angry bigger people. Helping them to calm their storms and knowing you are there for them is so important, it is just very challenging on our side, but if you read all about it, it's easier to get your head around it and be patient when you understand what they are going through, tips to help etc.

[~clover~]

DS is similar, but not as bad. If its another child who has what he's got, he might bite. TBH I usually say no & walk away. Soon as I do he forgets about what he wants & comes running after me, more worried that I'm walking away & we have a cuddle instead.
He might start on about it again, but I'll say no again & use something else to distract if possible. If thats hard, I'll put him in the shower, or on his bike that he's obsessed with
Its hard, but it does get easier.

[~clover~]

DS is similar, but not as bad. If its another child who has what he's got, he might bite though.
TBH I usually say no & walk away. Soon as I do he forgets about what he wants & comes running after me, more worried that I'm walking away & we have a cuddle instead.
He might start on about it again, but I'll say no again & use something else to distract if possible. If thats hard, I'll put him in the shower, or on his bike that he's obsessed with
Its hard, but it does get easier.

[BellyBelly]

The problem with walking away and leaving a child in this state or in a tantrum is that you can unintentionally leave them feeling abandoned or even growing up with abandonment issues (these are formed very early in life so it's not as crazy as it sounds). They can't get their head around why they feel the way they do, and they need help to manage it. I've found Parent Effectiveness Training to be brilliant for problem solving with children, it makes so much sense and is so simple. It's a face to face course, and you can also get the book (its in the BB online store). These early years are so important, you don't get another chance at it, and you don't have another chance at rewiring those little brains. For me PET is one of those things you wish you knew about before you had kids, I'd do alot differently. But for now, it's working so well fighting fires and I'm finding out the real problem under the nero tantrums (as margot sunderland calls them . We have very few now, it's a really happy home.

[Mum2SweetCs]

Hi All,

hehe okay so Brat might have been too mean, sorry DD. I understand it is normal and I have the book "what every parent knows" hence why i decided to use the "going on the same level and talking to her calmly tactic" but man, sometimes I just lose my patience!

ARGHH

I dont want to be an angry mum but seriously she is pushing me towards that end.

Thanks for the tip about Toddler Tactics, I will see if they have a copy of it in our library.

Also, has anyone else have a vomitty toddler (ie cries and makes herself vomit) and how do you stop them from doing that, ie teaching them that trying to make themselves vomit is not right?

thanks all!!!

[BellyBelly]

My daughter did that too. When she was at that point she was really stressed and her needs weren't being met. One example is being home after a friends visit, she was tired but also hungry, and we were hell bent on getting her to bed and not eating before bed, she worked herself up to epic proportions. Under all the tantrums and vomiting, she was really hungry and I was so stressed out about being a good mum and having specific food times especially because she was a fussy eater. But eating is a need a child has and I was battling that. I think if you make some changes to how you do some things, that will change... I really, really, really recommend PET. It's ideal for parents who are sick of being angry or don't want to be, I know it's hugely helped with that - I am so much calmer, I can't rate it highly enough. PET should be compulsory learning for every parent, I am that much of a fan... and it takes alot for me to be this passionate about something!!!

When children have low blood sugars they can go a bit nuts... happens to grown ups too. There is an article by Pinky in the toddler section about this, and tantrums in general...

[Mum2SweetCs]

Sorry what is PET?

[BellyBelly]

It's in my previous post which was just before you posted last... must have done at the same time

[Mum2SweetCs]

ah I see Parenting Effectiveness Training. I think i definitely need that!

Thanks Kelly!

[~clover~]

DD2 is a bit like that. She gets worked up til she vomits sometimes. She more did it for others though, I tried to avoid her getting that upset in the first place (completely different situation to yours, she was older & refusing to go to bed or something). DH & MIL are pretty hard. Ignoring her etc. I remember one night she came out saying she threw up & MIL turned around & said 'no you didn't, go back to bed'. Of course I knew otherwise & went & sorted it all out.

When I say I walk away from DS, I don't really just walk away & leave him. I more do it for distraction. Not sure if its any different though. I usually walk 2 steps, he comes after me & I pick him up & we go calm down together. He's a very attatched baby iykwim.

[BellyBelly]

Check out this link in BB for PET details: http://forums.bellybelly.com.au/foru...ellybelly.html

BJ - There would be a reason she doesn't want to go to bed though and she just wants to be understood, so talking to her about it is important. Hard to go into detail but PET goes over this. You know how there are people that whinge about the same thing over and over again? You just roll your eyes and go, here they go again... yet when you actually listen and make an understanding comment based on what they have said you can stop them repeating themselves over and over because they feel heard and addressed, 'So you feel sad because the other kids aren't playing with you at kinder?'

The way PET teaches you is amazing. What starts out as a tantrum or crying (their problem - eg I dont want to go to bed) ends up with a reason (I don't want to go to bed because I feel scared) then when you keep reaffirming back and understanding, its amazing what you can find out and what detail you can get to. Eg:

(Tantrum) --> I don't want to go to bed because I am scared --> I don't want to go to bed because I am scared because there is a shadow near the window... and so on. You have to let them own the conversation and do all the talking while you active listen... 'tell me more' 'so you feel... because'. Sometimes they just need to vent and work it out on their own, but this parenting method is designed to help them become responsible for their own problems which is magic, a huge life skill for them (and us!).

This happened with my daughter the other day, she was misbehaving and angry with me and so I did some active listening and I found out she was feeling upset because she was having trouble at school - she was doing something in maths she couldnt understand, AND she felt bad because she was last to finish some of the exercises - very last. This would have been a huge thing for her, she is very very intelligent and does very well particularly with written work. So to be able to get to that point without me yelling/being grumpy at her for her bad behaviour, and her resenting me for being like that and not understanding her - its a massive progression.

We have to work our way to the bottom of their problems - there is always something causing their behaviour. It wont be obvious most of the time and the first thing they offer wont be exactly the issue sometimes - eg. I have a sore tummy (crying)... but delve more and you will find they don't want to go to kinder... because they miss mummy... see if you knew that, you could put some strategies in place to help with that problem and not get mad thinking that they are just trying to get out of kinder.

See what I mean? Doesnt that sound so simple and can you see how there can be less arguments and guilt? I love it.

[amberj]

Kelly, I really like the sound of PET, but from what you are saying about active listening, that only really works with kids who can communicate effectively. DS is starting to throw tanties, and only being 16 months old, he can't talk yet, so getting to the bottom of his temper is something of a guessing game. Does PET address meeting the needs of younger toddlers as well? Thanks!

[beckoes]

havent read all your replies but i agree with whats been said, kellys suggestion of ''what every parent needs to know'' is great, that book really made me look at my DDs world in a totally different way, worth a look!!
A friend of mine has a 20 month old boy, he came over today and ended up lying on the floor screaming going blue!!! even my 15 month old DD didnt know what to do! lol. We just carried on playing next to him and after a few mins made a joke about ants on his toes and tickled his feet and he sat up and giggled and carried on playing with a wet face and red cheeks as if nothing had happenend, my friend said that it was pretty normal at the moment, so it something to look forward to i guess. good luck

[Toomanytoomany]

PET sounds great.

One thing that I have learned over the years is that parenting is not an immediate response activity, it's a long term investment. Stuff might not look like it works today, but it is working over time. It takes kids time to learn any skill, whether it's how to build a block tower, walk, or control their impulses. And as parents, we have to deal with the fallout of their learning process, whether that's messy toys, bumped heads or temper tantrums! It is easy to get sucked into their cycle of frustration, and this is where self talk can really come in handy.

What I mean is, don't take it personally. She's not being naughty because you're failing to teach her the right things or engage the right disciplinary techniques. She's being naughty because that's what little kids do - they test the boundaries. They are learning how to get what they want while still getting on with their Big People. That's their job. And it's your job to calmly maintain boundaries. It's not personal, so don't take it personally. You're not getting mad because she's making you mad, you're getting mad because your expectations are not realistic.

I swear, every one of my kids has got easier and I've enjoyed parenting more and more - not because the kids are better kids or because I've learned some magic along the way, but because I've learned what's normal, and it makes it so much easier to deal with. I can roll with it so much more easily, because I know it's not about me, it's about their development, and it will pass.

And I'm sure you would never call your dd a brat to her face, but even characterising her that way inside yourself can set up an unhealthy dynamic. (Been there, done that!)

Best of luck.

[BellyBelly]

amberj, active listening is just one part to it, and it does talk about how you can do it for younger children yes, and the bonus is you are learning it while he's younger, you wont have older kids like me and say I wish I knew this sooner. They have steps in resolving situations and you just make the steps more basic when they are younger - i.e. instead of a 3-4 step process they will give you a 2 step. Another good thing is that from a young age, they get used to the way you talk to them and deal with situations and don't know anything else... some of us in the group sometimes wonder if our older kids are thinking, 'What the heck have they done with mummy and daddy!!'

Just got back from week 6 with Janet at the Camberwell one, feel great everytime after I go, more tools and learning. Soooo good