Nothing like a cuddle from DD after a hard day's work!
Oct 2007
in my own world
3,267
More children or higher standard of living?
This has been on my mind for a while and I still have not found an answer to it.
What did/will you choose if you were able to choose to have more children and sacrifice your standard of living or live comfortably with 1 or 2 children?
Ive always wanted 3+ kids but I also don't want to deprive them of anything. I want to be able to support them and give them what they want in life but can probably only do that with 2 children.
Being raised in a family where we had all handme downs, where the kids use to laugh at our broken shoes, I dont want my children to go through that
BUT having said that, I love the fact that I have 3 other siblings! Sure we fought heaps but being older and wiser, its great to have their company!
I have the same on my mind too. I am one of 8 and we had hand me downs and quite often lived off food boxes from the local church. We never had a great deal of anything but love.
I have 2 dds and am at the ?#3 stage and often wonder if we will be sacricing what they can do by introducing another sibling. For me, I am a bit worried about it...worried is probably not the right word, but it just plays on my mind. I dont want them to miss out, but I dont want them to think that they can just do anything because they can iykwim. So we will probably go ahead with #3 and not worry too much about what they can have in this material world, but just offer them love and friendship.....
Hope that makes sense!
Depends on what you mean by higher standard of living I guess?
I've seen kids with all these electronic gadgets and game consoles etc, and it deprives them of their family time in some instances (not all times though), the best clothes etc, but at the end of the day I feel the most important things for kids is to feel loved. And not to feel love through presents and having 'the best' of everything - but to feel it from attentive and caring parent/s (and siblings), going to the park, reading books, playing sports together as a family etc.
DH and I are sending the kids to private school - thats our 'splurge' if you like on them, as we feel this particular private school reinforces our family values very well.
This may mean that we can't afford to have big family holidays, instead we'll just hire a shack up the river or something - but the kids will be still gaining life experience no matter where they go. I still plan to do the 'hand me down' clothing thing with bub #3 when he/she comes along, but instead of having toys as pressies - god knows we have enough, we always ask for clothes if ppl want to know what to get the kids - so they can still have 'new' clothes of their own.
For me, I think the balance would fall in favour of a larger family. I didn't grow up with as much as some other kids and while at times it bothered me that my clothes weren't super cool and I didn't have a brand name schoolbag, I think it shaped my character...we all want our children to be cool and liked, but I learned some valuable lessons through times of being uncool (and of course make up for it by being completely totally cool now).
If you take the 'name brand' side of it out I think it goes a little further than shiny things V house full of love .
I vote for a better margin on the financial side. It's good to also plan for the things you cannot see coming iykwim?
Like if one of the kids needs something that requires more $$$, or if they show some sort of skill/talent that you would like to extend for them.
Things like holidays (although can be exxy) can also be an important part of family life and life experience.
Sometimes an opportunity might come up for the family or an individual family member that would be sad to pass up for lack of $$$.
Not to mention the effect that strained finances can have on a family.
Nothing like a cuddle from DD after a hard day's work!
Oct 2007
in my own world
3,267
I defintely dont want my kids to grow up having the latest gadget, wearing the latest trendy clothing. I never grew up like that and would instill these values (of not being materialistic) into my children as well.
But we want to send them to a catholic school or have the option to send them to a private school without having to think about where the next term's fees will be coming from.
I would love for my children to go overseas and visit family (something I couldn't do) and regularly visit their grandparents in Melbourne and would love for them to be able to places such as the zoo, aquariums, trips down and up the coast these things aren't cheap at all.
I only have one child, I'll probably have another baby when I've finished university but it will only be one.
Financial freedom is really important to me, I don't buy fancy clothes but we do go overseas every year (I think travel has made me the person I am and want my DD to experience it too). She's only 3 but when she's old enough I'd like to be able to provide her the freedom to choose what she wants to do without worrying about the cost involved.
In saying that, none of that matters in a happy family and not having much money doesn't decrease your children's quality of life or parenting ability.
I think as long as you're happy with your choices your children will grow up knowing you did a great job and loving you for it. At least that's what I'm hoping
This is part of the dilemma I am facing at the moment. DH main reason for not really wanting another child is because he wants to be able to provide for them well. Not in the way of having the latest toys or brand name clothing, but in the way of letting them try sports or music lessons or what ever their hearts desire in that way, and not even necessarily private schooling or anything, though if it is an option, then we would consider it of course!!
He missed out on alot when he was young, even to the extent of him not being able to go on sports and school camps/excursions. He really regrets that, especially some of the sports things he missed, as he was really good and maybe could have take it further, but didn't have the opportunity to because his parents couldn't afford to pay the expenses.
But in saying that he and his brothers are such lovely people. THey are all successful, polite, intelligent, loving and loyal. They are all wonderful fathers and husbands. They all have great work ethics and senses of duty. Men I would be more than proud to say my son might grow to be like. I hope I can one day say he is just like his daddy or uncles.
But I don't want my children growing up to regret that we couldn't afford to give them things they really want. Not material things. I really couldn't give two hoots about crap like that (I mean if I can afford it then great but if not, no big deal!), but experiences, things they enjoy, things that will teach, extend, nurture their sensibilities....I want to be able to give them great opportunities in life. As well as all of the love and affection they already recieve.
Would one more child really break the bank that much...???? Who knows? Would I regret it more if I don't have another child? Again who knows???????? Would the family dynamics be shifted in a more positive way, or negative....? Don't know.....Would #3 mean more love and laughter in the house, or more tension and financial strain....
Waaayyyy too many questions without answers for me, lol!!! I am still very undecided in case you didn't notice!
Good luck in making your decision I know how tough it can be....
Here I am....a child from a family of 5...J from a family of 7.....and when we got together I told him no way was I having children, having been picked on for being poor and having to wear second hand shoes ect.
Then we had one......and then another and said no more. Had my tubes done and cried at the thought of not having more children to fill the house with screaming, love and laughter. 3 years later, a reversal and we were blessed with V and then M. There is still an itch in me for another but ive since bene to the chop shop and that part of me wont be renovated again
I make sacrifices.....I dont wear the fancy label named clothes like I use to, I dont go to the hair dresses every 6 weeks or get my nails done anymore. My kids ar every well dressed, I dont mind good conditioned hand me down clothing but there is a limit to what I except. My eldest 2 go to a private Catholic school were after the 2nd child you dont pay anymore. I budget our money every fortnight. We dont have ahuge $80,000 wage like many of our family and friends, but we have alot more financially, materialistically and most of all there is alot of love and respect between us all.
You learn from what you didnt like as a child and turn that round to make your parenting methods and way work for you and your family.
I shudder to think I never wanted children. I couldnt imagine my life any other way now
Nothing like a cuddle from DD after a hard day's work!
Oct 2007
in my own world
3,267
lilias - THIS IS EXACTLY how i am feeling!!!! Soo undecided.
The thing is I only have only DD atm, planning to TTC next year but I am thinking ahead as I am not getting any younger.
Thing is, I remember that although we couldnt afford to go to camping every year like every other student, that one time mum let me go, I cherished it and still remember it to this day.
That new pair of Nike I got at year 10 (when everyone already wore them at year 7 while i had to put up with Big W dunlops that were 3 sizes too big so that i can grow into them). I cherished.
Having said that I still remember getting teased for not being able to afford new shoes, teased for having to wear second hand uniform and mostly teased for not being able to afford the pay school fees. These things are what I do not want to put upon my children.
Ive never grown up to want nice clothes, ive never pampered myself (except for my wedding) and i never regret it!
Having said all this, Ive always imagined having a large family as we didnt have any relos we were close to, we didnt have grandparents or cousins and that is why I alway envy people with large families and how much fun they have when they gather together.
I don't think it is about having fancy toys or clothes, for most people. Most people know that in the end those are irrelevant.
I would like to be able to afford to live in a house close to my family (inner melbourne) with, eventually, one bedroom per kid (so at least 3 bedrooms, assuming we have another child as I hope we do).
I'd like to be able to live somewhere that we can do without a car too.
It is essential for us to be able to travel overseas regularly because half our family live in Spain, so if we can't do that, our children will grow up missing half their heritage and one of their native languages.
For me, music lessons are really really important. I'd make a lot of sacrifices in order to be able to afford those for my children, at least for a few years. I'd like to be able to give them stimulation and extension in whatever they are really good at, whether it's music, sport or whatever. Schools won't necessarily do this, so we might have to pay for it.
I'd like to be able to send our kids to the excellent school that I went to, but am accepting that this is likely to be financially impossible for us. Oh well.
All of this stuff will certainly limit the size of our family.
Of course another thing to consider is the environmental impact of adding another human to the planet. It's certainly the most damaging thing we will ever do, no matter how "green" we raise the kids to be. Humans need space and resources that will never be returned. It's one excellent reason to have small families. Everyone's kids will be better off if we all have fewer kids.
I grew up in a village in the UK where there was one bus a week to market apart from the school buses - you had to be driven by parents everywhere or cycle which wasn't always practical as nothing that close and the English weather :-) So this and the fact I hated that I never had my own room dictates where I want to live (close to tram and train is a requirement now somewhere a car is not a necessity) and how big a place (would like another so would want a 3 bedroom). So for us is the expense of where want to live which will put a limit of two on us.
Also like tenar - all our closest relations are in the UK - so need to be able to afford to make a trip back there every now and again, and want to be able to travel a bit round Europe especially Spain as lived there for 18 months.
Mum2OneSweetBun - I also remember saving up for about 10 months my babysitting money as a teenager to get the Reebok trainers I wanted, and I did absoloutely love those trainers and wore them till they fell apart.
Too me it's less of a question of money and more of a question of time and attention - how much energy I've got left over for the non-mummy parts of my life. I've always been quite honest about not feeling as if I could cope with the demands of having more than one small child at a time and always planned a gap of at least 4 years (haha it got a bit out of hand and turned into 9 years). I guess you could say I'm a bit selfish in that way.
It's helpful to remember that your financial circumstances can change - wildly - think about how you were going on the $ front 5 years ago and then imagine that your fortunes could rise or fall in another 5 years - it's part of the natural cycle of life. It's not the dollar amount that counts but the quality of your daily life - whether you're happy. I've done it tough for 5 years on minimal income when I chose to stay at home with my DD1 and yeah it's easier now we're older and DH earns that bit more but if we needed to go thru another lean period in order to have a much wanted child then I think we would do it.
All this is hypothetical though, we ain't having any more (other reasons).
I definitely agree with most of the points made here - it's not so much about what 'gadgets' you can buy your kids, but what financial freedoms can give you and them. As with all aspects of parenting, everyone's idea of what constitutes a good standard of living is very different, and I absolutely respect that - I may not 'believe' in private schooling or kids sharing bedrooms, but to each their own, and my desire to give my kids certain things over other things comes purely from my memories of childhood.
My DH and I had vastly different upbringings - he was raised by a single dad who was mostly unemployed (as they lived in remote areas with no child care facilities and FIL didn't have support networks like friends or babysitters, so had to stay at home to look after DH), and DH is still greatly affected by his memories of being picked on for wearing daggy shoes and not being able to go on school excursions due to financial difficulty. Because of that, he is determined to work his backside off in order to make sure his babies don't suffer the way he did. Character-building or not, being bullied for being 'povo' isn't at all fun and I wouldn't wish it upon anybody - I know DH would rather die than see his kids go through what he did as a child.
AFM, I was brought up in a relatively middle-class family - my parents didn't 'believe' in brand names or fancy trimmings but we always had new clothes, plenty of books and toys and went on holidays so often that I used to complain about it ruining my attendance record at school (we would usually leave at lunchtime on a Friday to beat the traffic, and on many occasions I was off school for a week at a time because my parents had planned a holiday during the school term). These weren't 'fancy' holidays, and I've never even been outside of QLD my whole life, but we were always off somewhere, doing something (usually car rallies or attending friends' and relatives' wedding, funerals, christenings and milestone birthdays etc), and while it had its good moments, I don't really want to always be dragging the kids all over the countryside either, so one holiday every year or two would suffice
As a result of my childhood, I also am reluctant to 'lower' our standard of living in order to accommodate more kids - I've never had to share a room with a sibling so the idea is a bit 'ick' to me (not that there's anything wrong with it, I know, but seeing DD1's bedroom I can't imagine trying to cram another kid and all the associated junk in with her - we'd probably lose a child in the piles of discarded clothing!). I did just fine with a public school education, so I don't see it as necessary to scrimp and save in order to pay the fees. Whatever money we have spare, we put away so that if our circumstances change, or if as a PP said, a child shows a special talent we'd like to develop further, we have the freedom to do so.
As far as the financial side of things goes, I do believe we could afford another baby. BABY, that is. As they get older, they get more expensive, and I'm already having nightmares about the bills for senior formals and making sure the girls are 'up to speed' with their peers when it comes to fashion, makeup, etc etc. My parents didn't exactly spoil me, and I don't blame them, but I did get picked on in high school for being daggy - Best n Less gear is great when your kids are too little to know any different, but when you get to high school and your mates are all shopping at City Beach and you're wearing your big sister's hand-me-downs from Big W... well, let's just say you don't give a stuff about how much love there is going around at your place, you care far more about what your school friends think. And if they think you're a dag, you figure you may as well be living in the backseat of a car and eating out of rubbish bins, kwim? Not that I intend on buying my girls Louis Vuitton handbags for their 13th birthdays (rip-offs, maybe ), but I do know that I hated being the 'pov' kid in my class at high school because my parents could afford to buy fancier stuff but just didn't think it was necessary.
I also strongly agree with the need to have enough energy to go around, too - juggling two kids is a real struggle at times when combined with housework and other day-to-day stuff, I honestly do not think I would be capable of functioning if I were caring for any more kids! My kids don't only need money to thrive, they need their mummy - and one that's firing on as many cylinders as possible. I sometimes think it would be a good idea for me to return to work to provide better for the family, but then I wonder about how I would then cope with young kids, running a household AND keeping my boss happy... and until I'm 100% sure I can handle the strain, I just won't do it.
I guess I have a little knowledge on this one.....
I always wanted a large family, always. As soon as i had my HSC, I got work in Child Care. Loved it. I was just born to be around babies.
We are far from rich, so far its not funny!!! But we get by quiet well. The kids honestly barely notice.
They go to catholic school, and the fees are taken out weekly at no extra cost, each child gets cheaper, and after 3, the rest are free, sweet deal!!!
I can pay all their excursions off as well, so even when we have been both unemployed, they have never missed anything. At their school, labels aren't allowed, so are a non issue. Maybe its different here, but I have never heard of any kids being picked on for any handme downs and stuff??? Even when their clothes come from the clothing pool and vinnies, the kids dont know,notice or care!!
I recently had my eldests high school info night... all these rich folks fighting at the clothing pool for cheap uniforms was hilarious!! And its the top high school in the area!! I really think these days noone is splashing the money around!! They get free tutoring at the school if they need it, and learning to read music, and play the piano and guitar are all compolsary for yr 7 anyway.... no need for paid lessons until they find the instrument they love.... most sports aren't that exxy up here, and I make the kids play at least 1 a year....
We try to holiday once a year. It by far doesn't have to be exxy, and the kids dont care if we camp or cabin hire, or had a 4 star ritzy place. We dont holiday to stay in the hotel!!
I budget well, home cook all the time, clean with natural cheap products and pay all the bills off a little each week. From when we both worked, we have a large new house, so although we struggle a lot, the kids think we have a lot, god bless em.....
To be honest, I never had more spare money when I only had 2-3 kids.... we didn't struggle as much, but we didn't have any more stuff, or more hloidays, or fancy clothes, etc... you only get so much time off work anyway!
I would never swap the life my children have with their siblings for the world.... they have their siblings for life, not a weeks worth of holiday.....
Its funny, I could come home with 3 items from target, or from vinnies, they dont care which!!!
I guess the real test is coming up... the teen years..... movies, outings, phones etc....
I guess a lot of young teens have phones now? And if they do, no doubt mine will ask too.... But mine wont be handed one, they can wait till birthday or christmas...
To be honest, even if I had the money, I probably wouldn't just buy them one because they wanted it anyway, doesn't teach them a damn thing!!
The kids think they are well off as we have the nice big house in a new estate, mum is always home for them, we have gorgeous aircon and heating, 2 cars, and have lots of food around when they know a lot of people dont.
They dont realise the house repayments cost a bomb, the 2 cars are crappy old second hand ones, and the food is baked from me!!
No doubt the time is coming soon when I will say "sorry babe, I dont have money for you to go to the movies this week, next week is pay week, you can go then."
And it will break my heart.
But would I give them money everytime they wanted it? Probably not anyway!!!
God help me, I may just regret having so many when I have a bunch of teenagers!!!!
Jodi - my kids are the same. Vy loves op shopping to the max with me and having my own embroidery machine is helping for personal things so to speak
Ive also made my kids aware that things are handed to them on a platter. They get 50c per fortnight for every year old they are and they have been told since they could understand that if they really want osmething bad enough, that they have to save it and buy it themselves. They also know that we place $10 per fortnight into a bank account that we opened when they were babies. N is the only one that realises it and is so happy knowing how much is there. We have explained its for them when they turn 18 so they can buy their first car ect.
N lost the watch Jed and I bought him for his birthday this year...it wasnt cheap (for us) so we told N that we would help him buy a new watch if he was willing to pay half of his pocket money each fortnight back to us. Agreement was reached and now he has paid his watch of and is extremely proud.
We went to the regect shop yesterday and he had some colouring pencils and grey leads in his hand....at the counter I told him I would pay for it and he said..no its alright mum, Ive got my own money. Made me feel good to know that he doesnt take us or money for granted. It was one of those moments when you think all your hard work and badgering as a parent has paid off
We dont do fancy things, movies.....thats a special thing once in a blue moon that we have one on one with the kids. My kids LOVE it when we make our home made KFC drumsticks and chips, I buy lots of bargains on ebay, which the kids have no idea about. As I said prviously the boys attend the local catholic school, were all books and excersions are included. The only thing we have to buy are the uniforms wich consist of a blue polo top and grey shorts.
Jed and I bought a house in an old housing commision section of town, have done it up over the years and extended. We've told the boy's that in a few year's time that we'd like to build so they can all have their own room ect but they have to help us by being aware that we are trying to pay bill's off and that we need to save money to get a new loan. Lets just say.
It is possible to give with a larger family and not go overboard. Its also a great way for each child to blossom with the support of other sibblings and yet still be an individual. You just have to know how to manage a little time for each person and set boundries...and most important stick to them
More children or higher standard of living?
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I know how tough it can be....
But we get by quiet well. The kids honestly barely notice.
But mine wont be handed one, they can wait till birthday or christmas... 
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