Me again :) I need a grammar pedant (or two!)

[Trillian]

I just need to double check a few sentences to make sure that they are grammatically correct. I found out today that the markers are going to be extra hard on poor grammar so I need to make sure I get it right.

The sentences are;

The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness which he feels. <- should the words in red be as they are, or should they be all plural or all singular?




Metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence. <- should metaphors be singular? Or should 'technique' become plural?




Dark words such as ‘waste’ ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning, and how he feels about teaching itself. <- Should that comma in red be there, or is the sentence just too long either way?




An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as the ‘unruly hounds’ which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children, and have them sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk. <- clearly this sentence is too long. Would it be acceptable to have bracket around this sentence 'which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children' or not? or just leave it out altogether?

[onthefly]

You know, I'm not sure about the plurals.

I would use that instead of which in the first - the hopelessness that he feels.

Would add a comma here - 'waste', 'abyss'
Can you use 'emotive language' rather than 'dark words'? ... create a sense of depression (or somethign like that), underlining the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching or his students’ learning, while also characterising his view on teaching itself. (not sure the last part works tacked on there)

One example of this is the depiction of students as ‘unruly hounds’ (as described by the teacher in the original text) sitting at desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, their leashes held by the teacher as he sits at his desk.

[Fleur]

*disclaimer* - I really don't know. This is just my 2c maybe with the htread bumped, someone who does know will reply

The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness which he feels. <- should the words in red be as they are, or should they be all plural or all singular?

The words in red seem ok as they are to me. I don't think it sounds right if you change them all to a singular - change metaphor and it just doesn't sound right. Ditto punctuation - no such thing as punctuations? so needs to stay as it is.

I think you could take out 'which' and just have 'hopelessness he feels' ?

Metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence. <- should metaphors be singular? Or should 'technique' become plural?

Again, I think as it is sounds right? How else could you put it... Metaphor is the most significant..nope.... and changing techniques to a plural doesn't work either.

Dark words such as ‘waste’ ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning, and how he feels about teaching itself. <- Should that comma in red be there, or is the sentence just too long either way?

I think it is a bit long... and I think it's too many commas. Can you replace the last comma with a semi colon; and change 'and' to 'nor' or 'neither' or even repeat 'no purpose' or something.
So, 'Dark words such as ‘waste’ ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning; nor any purpose to how he feels about teaching itself.

An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as the ‘unruly hounds’ which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children, and have them sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk. <- clearly this sentence is too long. Would it be acceptable to have bracket around this sentence 'which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children' or not? or just leave it out altogether?

You could take it out, but if you leave it in I would definitely put brackets around it. I don't think it needs to be in there though, you know?

[fionas]

The red words are a little tricky because in literary criticism "metaphor" (singular) is often used. However, the sentence in which you're using it is grammatically correct because all the red words are plural. It is best to stick to singular or plural for all the red words. Put another way, it would be acceptable to use metaphor (singular, however, to then use question (singular) to match metaphor (singular) would be wrong. So because of the other red words you have, I would stick with "metaphors".

[AndiE]

Okeydokey, my background is editing copy for public consumption My take on your queries are below. Grammar wasn't a strong point of mine at school but I got it worked out after 13 years in newspapers .

See what you reckon, anyway.

The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness which he feels. <- should the words in red be as they are, or should they be all plural or all singular?

All are ok as plural - providing you don't have a mix of singular and plural is ok. Should be one or the other in this instance.

Metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence. - should metaphors be singular? Or should 'technique' become plural?

I think in this case it should be Metaphor is ... however, for the purpose of clarity could you say "Lawrence used metaphors to blah blah blah." For my mind, a metaphor isn't a technique - it's a grouping of words. Make sense?



Dark words such as ‘waste’ ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning, and how he feels about teaching itself. <- Should that comma in red be there, or is the sentence just too long either way?

First thought is the sentence is too long ... sorry. However, it's been years since I've been at uni and uni lecturers are different to newspaper readers LOL. The main thing I'd suggest is put a comma after "waste", ... and no need for the red comma.

An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as the ‘unruly hounds’ which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children, and have them sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk. <- clearly this sentence is too long. Would it be acceptable to have bracket around this sentence 'which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children' or not? or just leave it out altogether?


Leave it out - from memory words inside a bracket or hyphon are accepted as superflous words and can be deleted without affecting the context of the copy. Given the sentence is long, I'd say delete.

[suse]

I just need to double check a few sentences to make sure that they are grammatically correct. I found out today that the markers are going to be extra hard on poor grammar so I need to make sure I get it right.

The sentences are;

The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness which he feels. <- should the words in red be as they are, or should they be all plural or all singular?

As each of the four terms used are blanket terms denoting technique I would use metaphor as singular, and change rhetorical questions to 'rhetoric', to read: 'The deliberate use of metaphor, emotive language, rhetoric and punctuation work together...'.




Metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence. <- should metaphors be singular? Or should 'technique' become plural?

Should read: 'Metaphor is the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence.'




Dark words such as ‘waste’ ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning, and how he feels about teaching itself. <- Should that comma in red be there, or is the sentence just too long either way?

Perhaps remove 'and how he feels about teaching itself', as it is redundant in terms of the preceding statement: 'which support the teacher's view that...' I would also say 'supporting the teacher's view' rather than 'which support the teacher's view' as it is more elegant. To read: 'Dark words such as ‘waste’, ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, supporting the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching or his students’ learning.'




An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as the ‘unruly hounds’ which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children, and have them sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk. <- clearly this sentence is too long. Would it be acceptable to have bracket around this sentence 'which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children' or not? or just leave it out altogether?


Perhaps: 'An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as ‘unruly hounds’ (as they are described by the teacher in the original text); sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk.'

HTH!

[AnyDream]

The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness which he feels. <- should the words in red be as they are, or should they be all plural or all singular?

This sentence is incorrect because the subject is "the deliberate use" so the the verb needs to match this. A better construction would be:
The deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation illustrates the depths to which the teacher has sunk and highlights the hopelessness he feels.
OR
Metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation work together to illustrate the depths to which the teacher has sunk, and to highlight the hopelessness he feels.

Metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence. <- should metaphors be singular? Or should 'technique' become plural?
This sentence is grammatically correct AND easy to understand, and does not need editing!!!...for the same reason that you would say "Apples are my favorite fruit" and not "the apple is my favorite fruit" or "apples are my favorite fruits" !!! And yes, metaphors ARE a literary technique.

Dark words such as ‘waste’, ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, which support the teacher’s view that there is no purpose to either his teaching, or his students’ learning, and how he feels about teaching itself. <- Should that comma in red be there, or is the sentence just too long either way?
This sentence is problematic in the area I've highlighted. Would read better:
Dark words such as ‘waste’, ‘abyss’ and ‘consume’ can be associated with depression, and express the teacher's feelings about teaching, and his view that there is no purpose to it, or to his students' learning.

NB: I had a look at the poem, just bear in mind it is specifically about the end of the day, and not necessarily about the teacher's chosen career as a whole.

An example of this would be having the students physically portrayed as the ‘unruly hounds’ which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children, and have them sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while their leashes are held by the teacher as he sits as his desk. <- clearly this sentence is too long. Would it be acceptable to have bracket around this sentence 'which the teacher describes them as in the original text instead of children' or not? or just leave it out altogether?
Try to avoid brackets generally, as a principle of writing in plain English. Chunking your concepts down into shorter sentences is preferable (says she, the queen of the long and complex paragraph LOL). Maybe something like:

An example of this would be to portray/describe the students physically as 'unruly hounds': sitting at their desks, straining against their leashes and scratching at the floor with their feet, while the teacher holds their leashes as he sits as his desk.

[Trillian]

Thanks everyone! One of the problems I had in the last assignment were that the subject/verb agreement didn't match, so that is why I was double checking the plurals etc.

MD, yes, they are indeed a literary technique LOL. I had a whole textbook to read through on the subject

I've made a few changes and hopefully it is enough - it's due today and I don't want to fiddle any more now otherwise I think I'll end up messing it up LOL.

[AndiE]

Well, ya learn something every day LOL.
Glad to see you've had lots of help Trill - apologies if my comments didn't hit the mark.

[Trillian]

Please don't apologise Andie I've learnt more about grammar doing this subject than I ever thought I would learn LOL. It was good to have several people saying the same thing so I knew it must have been wrong to have it like that LOL.

[suse]

Had a bit more of a think about this, when metaphor is described as a literary technique, it is generally used in the singular in my experience. As in, metaphor is the technique, metaphors are the result of using that technique. Same goes for rhetoric.

So when describing a technique the singular should be used, when describing the result of using the technique the plural should be used. So in the first example ('the deliberate use of metaphors, emotive language, rhetorical questions and punctuation...'), metaphor and rhetoric could be used either way and remain contextually correct. However, emotive language and punctuation are blanket terms denoting technique so I would aim for consistency and thus use 'metaphor' and 'rhetoric' as singular.

In the second example, 'metaphors are the most significant literary technique used by Lawrence', it can go either way. But as you are referring to a technique it should be singular. In all of the references I have found metaphor as described as a technique is always used in the singular.

[Trillian]

Thanks Suse