No support and weaning after 4 weeks :(

***PinkLilly*** · February 25th, 2011, 07:11 PM

I struggled to feed DD due to a low milk supply and I was so determined to get this feeding deal sorted this time around. Unfortunately things haven't worked out that way.

We took DS to the drs a couple of days ago because he hadn't pooed for 6 days and seemed to be in a fair amount of pain. Anyway dr gave him a suppository and said we should see some results in 5-10 mins. Anyway 1/2 hour later still nothing! Dr started talking about there not being enough in his system to poo out due to me not having enough milk. To put it mildly I was very upset. This was despite lots of wet nappies, lots of farts and feeding every 3 hours or so.

Short version, went home and gave DS a bottle. Half way through, massive poo, and several more over the next few hours. But the damage had been done. I doubted my ability to feed my son, not to mention a very badly cracked nipple. DH pushed for full ff. He doesn't support breastfeeding due to all of the dramas of last time.

So I have started to wean. I'm not happy about it. But I have no support. DH gets frustrated when I seem to be constantly feeding and he is left to care for DD by himself.

And now I suspect I have breast thrush. Sharp shooting pins in the breast with the badly cracked nipple for hours after a feed. I just don't feel like I can win. I really wanted to feed DS (and figure the boat has sailed for this now), but i seem to be the only one.

My boo hoo for today....

**RhiChiChi** · February 25th, 2011, 07:25 PM

Oh hun, what a crap time you have been through

Can I just point out I don't believe the formula was that reason that your DS had a poo (if anything it would have kept him backed up)- it had to be the suppository - it just took longer than the Dr thought!

I don't know why your DS hasn't done a poo. Your son has had lots of wet nappies - the most important thing & farting - this is also very good. Maybe it is something you are eating that is being passed through your BM causing him to be backed up?

Would you consider doing both - bf & ff (top ups?) It's not too late if you want to continue bf - sounds like you just need some help to get a good supply up? I would consider speaking to another Dr or lactation consultant/ABA about what has happened if you want to continue.

If you don't, I understand (DD was ff) and that has to be your choice & one that you are content with. GL

**Phteven** · February 25th, 2011, 07:28 PM

it sounds like you have lots of milk and you have breastfeeding off to a great start. I don't see any need for you to throw away all that effort now.
Tell your DH that the hardest part is over - trust me it gets easier after this and frankly he should be taking advantage of having some daddy daughter. In a little while that opportunity will be over because you will be feeding more efficiently.
Take yourself to a chemist tomorrow and get something for that nipple and you will be able to keep breast feeding.

It's perfectly normal for a breastfed baby to go up to 10 days between poos. Your Dr should know that.

**LimeSlice** · February 25th, 2011, 07:31 PM

I am FAKing so can't type much, will be back.

BUT I had to write to assure you that if BF babes don't poo for a few days it is normal.
It doesn't automatically mean you have not enough milk, but rather that as BM is so good, often it creates very little waste on the baby - meaning no waste = no poo. Purely because there is not enough waste in the bowels to create the urge to go.

Get onto an LC and the ABA - there is no reason to wean, you have most likely, more than enough milk -if he were starving you would know about it, and the first signs it was happening would NOT be lack of poo.

**Janie** · February 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM

PL, I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. Can I suggest calling the ABA Helpline 1800 MUM2MUM for someone to talk to? It doesn't matter if you've definitely decided on weaning, they will still support you. It might be nice to have a chat to someone to debrief.

Guys (I'm not saying that this is the case with you PL) lack of poo actually can be a sign of baby not receiving enough milk in the early weeks. You would expect a newborn to poo at least once a day. As time goes on, sure, lots of BF babies can go many days without pooing, but it is not to be expected for a newborn. Of course, it's helpful to look at the big picture, and check out wee output, weight gains, skin tone, baby's behaviour, and growth in head circ. and length. But poo is often a pretty good indicator of what's going on.

**YoYo** · February 25th, 2011, 07:48 PM

I agree with the others, don't let 'the man' get you down. You don't want to stop, so don't.

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**sunshine_sieben** · February 25th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Oh hun, huge hugs to you. You have done so well so far.

Around this age, my DD also started pooing only once every 6 days or so. she kept gaining weight, so it was all normal and stayed like this until about a month after starting solids (so about 7 months). Let me tell you, there is not a nappy in the world that can contain 6 days of runny breastfed poo build-up

And Janie, while you are right about newborns, we are talking about a 1 month old here. And this is the time lots of babies start spacing out their poos.
So the poo (or lack thereof) by itself is not necessarily a problem. The fact that he has had plenty of wet nappies is a good sign.

The badly cracked nipple is what concerns me more. I am wondering whether you have an attachment issue. I would really recommend seeing a lactation consultant. You sound like you really WANT to breastfeed. And you might feel disappointed/let down if you give it up now. IF YOU WANT it, I think you should go out and find that support. Call the ABA, maybe go to one of their meetings. Or better still, go straight to a lactation consultant. They really are invaluable.
They will also be able to advise you on possible thrush. You might need to treat both yourself and your daughter for that. Regardless of whether you wean or not.

This ship has NOT sailed yet. You can continue if you wish. You might just need a little help. Lots of women do.

In any case, I hope you get the support you need for whichever decision you make (be it breast, formula or mix feeding).

And a note to your husband: he should be so grateful that you want to breastfeed. Mine was. He tells all his mates that breastfeeding is the best thing since sliced bread. And that's not because of the nutritional value. Not once did I ask him to make up a bottle in the middle of the night, or go to the shop to pick up formula. If the mother breastfeeds, the father has it easy!
And bottle feeding takes time, too. It's not like you can just give a 4 week old a bottle to hold. So either way, once the second child is in the picture, Daddy has (and should want to) look after the older one a bit more.

**Janie** · February 25th, 2011, 08:08 PM

Yep SS, I wasn't saying this was the case for PL's bub, but it is widely purported that for breastfed babies of any age it's okay to go days on end without pooing. 4 weeks is a grey area - as long as all the other signs are good, things are probably going well

. Just trying to dispel the myth so as not to confuse mums of new babies

**~mamaspice~** · February 25th, 2011, 08:12 PM

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. I feel your pain. I had supply issues and only fed DD for 3 weeks, then DS I managed to mix feed for a couple of months.
But if your DS was having plenty of good wet nappies it does sound like you *may* have been producing enough milk hon.

Either way, like others have said, it's not too late to continue BFing if thats what you want.

And like someone else mentioned, if exclusive BFing is not seeming like a managable option for you have you considered mix feeding? EG: at each feed time you could put bub on the breast for 10 minutes then give him a little formula top up in a bottle. My DS had absolutely no issues with nipple confusion doing this so it can work. I used to also offer DS the breast between feeds if he was a little unsettled.

At the end of the day, you need to do what's best for you and your family and your situation.

**aussienic** · February 25th, 2011, 08:13 PM

First of all.. Poo. My DD and DS3 have both gone just over a week without poo's and boy did i know it the day they did one. or 2 or 3.

i am so angry at your Dr. Don't doubt your ability to BF. Clearly its working. It is a common thing for BF babies not to poo for a number of days. yes they fart and seem like that are in pain but as long as their tummies are soft they are fine. I used to give warm baths and tummy massages

and hopefully you don't take offence but I am annoyed at your DH. Support is needed but if you really want to BF then stand up and say you are. If it is that important to you then simply do it.

the booby pain sounds a little like a vasospasm to me.. Do you have a white mark on your nipple area? I had that and it hurt like anything. I would air that breast out between feeds or when bub was feeding off the other one. Also put some BM on it.. I can't help you with the thrush as I don't think I ever had it when breastfeeding

expressing is another option.. time consuming but worth the effort.. Its on'y time consuming for the first few weeks then you get into a routine and it all works out.. then Dh can do some of the feed while you take care of DD and vice versa.. I used to express every 3-5 hours with DS2 as we had some issues with attachment and I was determined he would get BM and we did it till he was 10 months..

Good luck with whatever you decide. and if you go with FF then don't stress it. my eldest was FF from 3 months and he has rarely been sick is very smart (just saying so you don't feel guilty cus there is nothing to feel guilty about)

**Gigi** · February 25th, 2011, 08:25 PM

1. unless you are in a remote location, i wouldn't waste my time asking a GP for bf-ing help, they don't get trained about bf-ing in medical training, you're much better off asking people who ARE trained in breastfeeding e.g Lactation Consultants and ABA counsellors. Grab the phone, ring 1800 686 2 686 (free call, you don't need to be an ABA member to access their services), they also have online help, google "australian breastfeeding association.

2. support by the partner, close relatives, IS a huge aspect of breastfeeding succeeding or not. it's the day to the day support that gets you thru. I went to an ABA workshop on bf-ing, for partners, when heavily pregnant. becauase the partners got to hear the info, at the same time as the preg. women were, i was amazed, a month later, when we actually had a real baby in the home, my dh started saying and doing the things the ABA had talked about in the three hour lecture (i didn't think he was paying attention at the time, or would remember).

establishing breastfeeding is time consuming and it's happening at a time when many mums are exhausted, so partner CAN (if they are willing) be an invaluable support - providing food and water to you when you can't get it yourself, or are too tired to be bothered. To bring baby to you, to change baby's nappies, look after other children, tell you you're doing a great job when you start doubting yourself.

So, i think a wholistic approach is needed. Your whole family is involved when you welcome a new baby into your home. If your husband hears from the lactation consultant, in clear terms, what he can do to help you breastfeed, that would take the pressure off you - (hoping he'll "get" it, or hoping he'll suddenly buck up).

most mums that breastfeed go thru a steep learning curve at the beginning, experience various challenges, that can be overcome in many instances AS LONG as you get RELEVANT and TIMELY advice. Leave it too long - the milk dries up, you lose your confidence. You can re-lactate, but very few people do that.

I think you have a few issues - the immediate physical ones (e.g nipple thrush) and the emotional (dh not being on board right now).

You are very vulnerable right now, hardly in a position to win dh over about this, i would suggest delegating that task to a LC. You have enough to deal with right now.

best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

i did have an enlightened dh (after a three hour ABA lecture) but as well as that, i used the annual ABA calendar hanging in my kitchen - seeing those positive photographs of breastfeeding EVERY DAY - really helped me - and the ABA bi-monthly magazine called ESSENCE - packed pages and pages of real life bf-ing stories - successes and challenges both - i pounced on my letterbox when they arrived every two months. Plus online support like BB. I didn't get the bf-ign support IRL, cos every mum i seemed to see was doing FF not BF, so i had to find my ways of getting support. But dh (at the time) was a huge support, with positive comments and saying the things the ABA had mentioned, was useful for bf-ing mums to hear.

i was a first time mum, no mum or MIL, no family support, took me four months of "challenges" before bilby and i seemed to "get" breastfeeding. At the start i didn't think we would get to three weeks, and by the end of it, we got to three years. I was open minded, it shocked me that my body even produced milk. i saw that as a bonus. i was grateful bilby got the colostrum, then i set myself little goals (like one week), then i got to a stage, where by goal was "to bf for the next 24 hours" - until i got to that four month magical period and for reasons unknown, it all clicked.

going to aba meetings, reading ESSENCE, gave me forewarning, that bf-ing with challenges, was pretty damm normal - but unknown before you have a child.

and the shock of finding out how misinformed and uneducated that GP's are, about bf-ing. and child nurses too.

Lactation consultants and aba counsellors are the "go to crew" for this.

**sunshine_sieben** · February 25th, 2011, 08:26 PM

Oh, and just another note:
If you indeed have an issue with low supply, there are many many things you can do to try and increase supply. These things are not always successful, but in most cases they are. Let me know if you want some suggestions on this, or do a search in the breastfeeding forums. Or call the ABA.

ETA: Gigi, you posted at the same time. i just wanted to say that yours was a wonderful post!

**onthefly** · February 25th, 2011, 08:45 PM

PinkLilly, I'm really sorry to hear that you don't feel supported right now

If you're unahppy about this, or just unsure, why not give yourself a little space and see how you go. You don't have to give up if you don't want to - it sounds like things were actually going pretty well for you this time. Even if you've given him some formula, or if you don't breastfeed exclusively, it doesn't have to be the end of it if you don't want it to be.
You do need to get some help for the cracks though and the pain in your nipples, either way.

**Kazbah** · February 25th, 2011, 09:51 PM

PinkLilly - you're currently exclusively BFing, right? This is what my GP tells me to check for:

* weight gain (200g/week is in my mind for some reason?)
* alert baby (any lethargy worries him)

With your nipple, is it oddly coloured? Have you been checked for Nipple Vasospasms? I have this and it's really bad when nipples are cracked. It's got sharp shooting pains and they are also reactive to cold - I have to keep my breasts warm!!

I *do* have a low supply due to a breast reduction. But I can feel the milk ducts and the milk in them, and that's after medication. There are lots of things you can do to check for "low supply" issues. I strongly recommend you source and read "the breastfeeding mothers' guide to making more milk" which is available on the ABA website and libraries.

I comp feed my now 9-week-old with formula after a feed. I offer him (now) 120mls, I think I was told to offer him 90mls after a feed. And to express to stimulate supply. But my baby was lethargic and not gaining weight. I drink no-alcohol beer (coopers - available in the soft drink aisle of the supermarket) and eat 6-8 lactation cookies / day. I take 8 motillum/day and blessed thistle / fenugreek as well. All this was suggested by a lactation consultant.

If you're feeling not right about weaning, then don't. Put him on the boob and then FF to top him up - with a cup if you can is recommended so he doesn't get "lazy" and prefer the bottle to your boobs.
Call or join the ABA. Our local group has meetings fortnightly and you don't need to be a member (not sure if this is for every ABA group though?) to attend. Good luck

ETA: re the poo. My DS2 will do a good green toothpaste pretty much each day. And his poo in in 2 distinct different types - the FF (green from the iron) and then the BM part (baby-poo yellow and more .. liquidy?) however he will have the fats from my BM in his toothpaste-textured FF poo as well.
The BM poos only come about every 3 days or so, it's so interesting to see that the BM fats are sent out more often than the BM waste. (sorry, I think I spend too much time analysing poo!!!)

**HotI** · February 26th, 2011, 06:28 AM

* weight gain (200g/week is in my mind for some reason?)
* alert baby (any lethargy worries him)

I think it's more like 100 - 150g weight gain per week.

**onthefly** · February 26th, 2011, 08:17 AM

I think the average is 150-250, but that should be averaged out over a month or so as it can vary a lot week to week. generally, assuming everything else is ok, anything over 100g/week is good.

**sunshine_sieben** · February 26th, 2011, 09:17 AM

I agree.
This is something from the ABA site:

When is low weight gain a problem?

Individual babies vary a lot and weight is only one factor in the 'whole picture' of a baby's health and development. Careful assessment of your baby's health is generally recommended if:

your baby continues to lose weight after the first 10 days of life and does not regain birth weight by 3 weeks
your baby gains at a rate below about 100 grams a week in the first 3 months
your baby's weight is less than the 3rd percentile
your baby's weight drops two percentile lines in 56 days (before the age of 5 months)
your baby's weight drops two percentile lines in 3 months (after the age of 5 months).

Looking at your undressed baby can also give you an idea. Does your baby look healthy? Does she have a good skin colour and muscle tone? Does she look the right weight for her size? Does she look like her skin 'fits'? Wrinkly, loose skin with not enough fat beneath the skin is a sign that your baby is not gaining enough weight or is losing weight. The 'wasting' of weight loss first appears around a baby's lower abdomen, buttocks and upper thighs, which is why it is important to remove all your baby's clothes when you do this, especially the nappy.
Together with your medical adviser, you can investigate your baby's general health and wellbeing, checking for signs of adequate milk intake and whether your baby is meeting developmental milestones.

The ABA has a great article on their site called "Not enough milk?" Search for it. It might help.