I dont like to parent like this but i dont know what else to do. Debrief and advice.

[beckoes]

This is a bit long, hope its still readable....

DD1 is 3 years (turned 3 in august) she is a sweet kind loving little girl but is very strong willed, determind and some times stroppy....precocious at times. shes a leo. we deal with it.

we recently moved from our house in the country to a house in a town, she now has a few friends, we go to the play ground alot and she has alot of outside social interaction, which is great and shes loving.

DH recently started a new business and works pretty long hours, dd is a bit of a daddies girl, but dh has always been the one working.....just not 12 hour days, 7 days a week. the move and the business happened in the same week at the end of august.

She has been sick, not too bad, just a cold, but enough to make her sleep for 4 hours every afternoon and still go to bed at 7.30. we also have a 6 month old baby, but she loves her to bits, is very proud, introduces her to every one and tells me she loves having a sister.

So all that stuff is just excuses really, as to why her behaviour in the last few weeks is justified....but its not and it needs dealing with.

She has started hitting/punching/slapping (has slapped me and dh in the face on different occations either when playing or when being removed from a spot which was dangerous. she punched a boy in the back in the playground cause he was ''silly'') she growls when i ask her not to do something, tell her to be carefull etc and then flies into a rage, shouting, punching my legs, pinching me, kicking. ''im not your friend'' etc etc. if dd2 does something she doesnt like she will grab her hand and squeeze it as hard as she can till she cries. or punch her on the body. the cat also gets a beating! i know this is all pretty normal for a three year old, but i cant just ignore it and let it be normal.

i have NEVER used smacking/slapping as a form of disapline, it just doesnt sit right with me (each to thier own though). i have tried sitting and talking about it and she understands, (she has very good language and understanding of things) i have tried everything i can think of. but i found i was getting frustrated as it just wasnt working and i was getting cross and not dealing with it as calmly as i wanted too.
So this morning, after she whacked DH because he asked her to pick up some clothes she had pushed off the sofa (that were folded) and put them back in a pile. i put most of her toys in the wardrobe and explained why and that she couldnt have them. and every time she smacks/punches/spits/yells i will put another toy in there untill there is nothing left. i told her that if she went a week without doing any of those things she could get one toy back at a time!
HARSH or fair???

I feel harsh but ive done it now so i kinda have follow through with it.

[onthefly]

That must be really, really hard!
It's not something I've had to deal with much - DS does get aggressive at times, but it's not such a consistent thing. If he throws something or bangs it, then he loses it. I think it's more effective if there's a clear link between teh behaviour and the consequence. If he hits me or someone else, then play time is over and he has to do his own thing - I won't do thiings with him if he acts like that.
I suspect your problem is a bit more tricky than that though. Did this start when your DH started working so much? It may well be an expression of her need for more time with him and/or more general frustration at things being different.
If her language is good, the toy thing might work. But it's a modifieid punishment/reward type scenario so doesn't get at the underlying issues here. And there is some reason for this behaviour, I'm sure. Also, if she decides to forego the toys... what then?
Sorry, I don't really have a practical solution to offer you FWIW, I don't think it's harsh, you're dealing with a very difficult situation. And you're right to not just let violence go.

[beckoes]

thank so much MadB. your right in what you say, the punishment might fit the crime but doesnt solve the problem. it did start around the same time as the move/dh working etc, but she seems to understand it all and says shes ok with it. but clearly not. i have tried SO hard to fill her days with fun and laughter so she doesnt have time to miss DH. maybe thats not the right approach! thanks again!

[peanutter]

big hugs! such a rough situation ...

my DS is a lot younger than your DD, so I haven't got to the tantrum age! but I have previously looked after teenagers in full time care, including some with very low IQs and social skills, and with a couple of them, we made a reasonably structured punishment/reward system, as a basic star chart ...

things which were obligations/expectations were on one side, things which were good, positive behaviours were on the other. If they didn't meet their requirements there were consequences, if they exhibited the positive behaviours, there were rewards.

the consequences were the same for the different kids, but the rewards were more tailored - but involved the same financial and time cost, to equalise it somewhat.

we found the stars themselves needed to be daily (to get that reinforcement) so we'd do them around dinnertime, and it was on the wall where they could see. consequences were immediate, benefits had to be earned, and were awarded every five stars. so the fifth "star" was a colourful smiley sticker

if they were younger, I think I would have made the rewards a smaller daily thing too, because five days is a long time when you're three!

not sure if any of that helps ...

[krysalyss]

Well it is a hard one. I will tell you what we do but it hasn't stopped the behaviour totally so I am not sure that it works short term but I am banking on the long term . For us hitting is an immediate time out. If DS can't control his body then we have to keep ourselves safe and that is how we explain it to him. Often he needs to space to calm down anyway. Hurting other people is not acceptable at all. If we were out (e.g. at a play centre) he would get one warning that if he does it again we are leaving immediately, and then we follow through with that as we also have a responsibility to the other kids there that DS won't hurt them. It is tough but what can you do?!? I try my best to stay really calm and explain that what we are doing is a direct consequence of him hurting us/other people and that it is ok to be angry but it isn't ok to hurt people, even when we are angry. When he controls his body then he can join in. It sounds great in theory and sometimes it is hard to stay calm (especially when you have done it for the hundredth time that week) but I guess like I said I am hoping that in the long term he will learn the rule and copy our behaviour of staying calm and talking about what we need rather than hitting.

[*EJ*]

I tend to think that as well as the changes at home you could be just dealing with the 'terrible 3's. Terrible 2's aren't much in comparison.

I'd say whatever you choose to do keep it consistant.

Set you boundries between both parents so you both accept and don't accept the same things.

I agree that a week is a long time when you're three, what you could possibly do is from now when you see behaviour to praise give a toy back one at a time or definately acknowledge it in some way.

I know with me i also found that i was saying 'no' to things that DS was possibly now quite capable of doing to a certain extent. Maybe you could start introducing a few new things that make her feel special, like a big girl. As they grow you often need to adjust the boundries that you set.

I know that kids can definatley have difficulting in dealing with change and act out in protest but as parents we always find a way to blame ourselves for things that may not be our fault. Maybe it's not so much a protest to change but just her being 3

Another thing that helps immensly is to not get worked up and yell when they do, keep your response calm (even when you are fuming inside).

It's tough but i promise you will see the results next year, DS1 has been so good of late... until the next 'stage'.... which i'm sure it's too far away

[MissEm]

I turn the tables on my 3 year old.
I will sit with her, one on one, and I will ask her if the person she did xyz to did it to her, how would she feel?
I will then ask her why she did xyz and usually the answer is her feeling frustrated or annoyed. I will then talk to her and let her know that her feelings are valid and it is ok to feel that way, but the way she reacts is not ok and we need to do it differently. I'll give her alternative ways of reacting, like walking away from the person, or telling the person 'you are making me feel sad/frustrated/annoyed' and so on. She chooses to walk away and I'll find her sitting somewhere quiet cuddling her plush toy.

I hope that helps

[onthefly]

I think talking through her feelings is a good idea - model it so she gets the idea. When you xxxx, I feel xxxxx. It really, really helps them to have language to express their frustrations. It takes a lot of work to get to that point, but it's worth it.
If you're out, then leaving is an excellent example of a 'natural consequence' of antisocial behaviour. It's not a punishment, it's simply what has to happen to keep everyone safe.

[beckoes]

so we sat down today and had a big talk, while soing some drawing, about stuff. daddy working, babies, moving, mummy etc etc. i think she is starting to realise that she is going to have to share everything with her sister and isnt too keen on that, so we made a box of special things that were just for her to keep them safe and away from baby. she liked that. she misses daddy, i knew that anyway, but we just had a good chat about it. she cried a bit so its clearly a huge thing for her. i cant stop her missing him and clearly cant distract her no matter what i try, so i guess its just something to get used to. also she thinks that if i ask her not to do something or warn her to be carfull that im telling her off and we wont be best friends any more, so i think i need to work on the tone i talk in, i must sound cross or something.
we had a good day, no more hitting.she understands the toy thing, and she only has her favourite toys left out so she doesnt want to loose them. and actually it kinda worked well, now there arnt so many toys and crap out eveywhere she played on her own for a while with what was left and it was nice to have a bit of alone time, for her and me. thanks for all the input and ideas ladies!! good to add a few things to the 'tool box'!!