If you didn't do ANY sleep training, when did your children learn to get to sleep ...

[HotI]

I am trying to work out the influence of parenting, personality etc on sleep.

Can you do no sleep training, not even 'gentle' methods, and have your child learn to fall asleep without alot of assistance, and sleep overnight for long periods?

If you have more than one child, are their sleep patterns similar?

When DS was young, he slept more than DD ever did, but over time he is becoming more and more like DD. I am questioning whether it is what we are doing, or not doing, or whether my kids are always going to need little sleep and need assistance.

i would like to get DS to sleep in the side car cot (rather than in the main bed), but am floundering in how to do it, without a fight which i don't want and don't have the energy for. He has a hammock, but it is starting to become unsafe for him. He doesn't feed non-stop overnight, but does like contact with one of us. I like to keep kids in my room while they are still feeding overnight, but then would like him to move into a room with DD.

Although it can be difficult to get DD to bed and sleep at night, she sleeps well overnight now. I didn't do sleep training with her, except for the Pantley Pull Off thingy to stop the all night feeding at around 10 months. DD slept her first 5 hour stint at 15 months, night weaned a little later (probably pregnancy induced) and largely slept overnight by 18 months. I think this was because we didn't push changes, but made them when she seemed to be ready.

But sometimes i question if whatever i am doing, or not doing, is not letting my kids sleep earlier.

Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated.

[inlove]

DD1 is five and now goes to sleep on her own in her own room with no issues.
We have not done any sleep training at all, my husband slept with her every night ( from when I became pregnant with DD2 as I knew I wanted to sleep with DD2 and we only have a double bed. We knew she would get there by herself in the end and she has.

[nothing2lose]

I think it has more to do with the personality of the child. I can honestly say I never had any issues with getting DD to sleep or sleeping for long periods. I don't think I did anything special or different to anyone else, and I certainly didn't go to sleep school. Honestly (and I am sure you don't want to hear this), I think I just lucked out

I really feel for those who struggle with a little one who doesn't sleep.

[Arcadia]

I think it is largely personality and genetics based. Are you or your husband anxious people or light sleepers? Some need less help than others and less comfort from parents.

Dd is a bit nervy like me and would only feed to sleep until 2 and even now at 3.5 sleeps in my bed next to me. She did sleep in her own bed for a while but used to wake around midnight looking for me (I would lie with her to help her sleep) so we moved her back in with us and we all sleep better for it.

Ds is more laid back but he still prefers to be fed to sleep. He was a much better sleeper as a baby but is now pretty much how dd was at the same age, ie feeds to sleep in my bed and cuddles me most of the night and wakes for one or two decent feeds between midnight and 6am.

Can you unpack some of your expectations about his sleep. Is there any way to resolve these apart from changing his patterns? I always try to change myself rather than the child because I find it easier. That's just me though (and due to the very very strong will of dd).

Sorry I didn't really answer the question...kids on my feet so I will bbl

[MrsFabuloso]

My DD is 5 1/2 now, and though she doesn't go to sleep on her own, she sleeps most nights through and has for close to a year now. She wakes maybe once a week or so, due to bad dreams, or needing to go to the loo. I have to sit with her (and DS1 -they share a room) until they're asleep. Though I suspect that if she had her own room, she'd be able to go to sleep on her own, having me there is just habit now. She can self settle, and knows when she's tired and needs to go to sleep.
DS1 is 4 and sleeps through probably 4 out of 7 nights. Though can be more wakeful than that. He is getting better, but is terrible at self settling, and really does need me to be with him to go to sleep, to remind him to be still and relax, other wise he's a bundle of worms trying to make himself still! He can sometimes wake up to 3 times a night.
DS2 is still fairly wakeful in the night and needs someone to settle him. He cosleeps with DH or I and can't self settle. I rock him to sleep and have to pat him back to sleep at night, or bf him if he won't settle with patting and a dummy. He wake usually 2 times a night, sometimes up to 4-5 times still, depending on the night.
This is from children who have all mostly co-slept (and often still end up in bed with DH or I) and have been frequent wakers (up to hourly) when they were little, until about 2-ish.

[Lenny]

I did a bit of sleep stuff with DS1 and i disliked it. He currently sleeps like a trooper and rarely wakes. He's 4.5. He will sleep in new places, new beds, from 7-7.30 - 5.50

I did nothing with DS2. He slept through the night for the first time when he was about 18 months. He is now in a big bed and gets put to bed, half the time falls asleep within 5 minutes the other half he calls out for me a few times. He wakes one or two times most nights and often wakes up tired, ITMS.

They are very different children. I think the sleep thing has to do with their personalities. I do also think ('cos i'm an expert LOL) that children can learn to 'cope' with less sleep. They get used to it. It might not be good for them, or ideal, but they learn to function. I know a child who seems sleep deprived and is not given the opportunities to sleep that i think are more healthy. He's 4.5 now and can function on the same amount of sleep as me. I think it would take a lot of work/training to get him to sleep for longer now. It's like he's been sleep trained in to less sleep.

[Jellyfish]

I've posted about this around here before but I really think some of it comes down to metabolism (as well as personality/temperament). We did no sleep training with either of our girls but DD1 still woke for night feeds till 2yrs 9months which I felt she needed. She is a tiny thing who just eats and eats and eats but stays tiny like her father so I believe she was waking up hungry. At 2yrs 9months she started sleeping through consistently so we moved her into her own bedroom (was in our room in her toddler bed before that and in our bed before that) where she kept it up. She was still breastfed to sleep till she self weaned at 3yrs 3months and now we just read her a book say goodnight/cuddle then walk out for her to fall asleep on her own (I think she would probably have been ready for this earlier but whilst we were still feeding I saw no need not to use it to settle her at night because it was our one on one time after DD2 arrived as well as being quick and peaceful for both of us). She is a brilliant sleeper now, she even gets up herself for water or the toilet without any need for help (although if she did call out we would be there asap of course), the only time she has ever woken me in the last few months is when she was sick with a terrible cough (she's 3yrs 6months old now so this was all quite recently still I guess).

DD2 is very different. She sleeps with us at the moment (conveniently arrived just as we moved DD1 into her own room so it worked out well for us) but only wakes for feeds occasionally. She is a well built little lady, she eats infrequently during the day. Last night she didn't wake at all for a feed, just once to move into a different position. The night before she woke twice, the night before once. She also has taken to solids a lot quicker than DD1 did, she eats fairly well and decent amounts whereas DD1 didn't even really begin to swallow solids till after 9months. DD2 is 8months.

Both were treated in exactly the same way; in our bed from birth, fed to sleep and on demand each wake up. Both have had all of their naps on my lap or in the sling/carrier too (think DD2 has had maybe two nap away from me in her 8months) so I've done all those "bad habit" techniques with both lol. I just think DD1 needed the night feeds whereas DD2 doesn't seem too (she is the size DD1 was at 18months at 8months so they are polar opposite builds).

I'm prepared to give another 3yrs with DD2, I think that to me is what seems reasonable but it looks like I won't have to wait nearly that long this time. DD2 will move into DD1's bedroom when she is sleeping through consistently, we are about to move her into a cot in our room now that she is doing so infrequently (she will begin in there and then be brought into bed with me as needed so will end up in our bed often). When she is only waking occasionally, the cot will be converted into a toddler bed and I will lay with her to nightfeed returning to my bed once she has resettled so we sort of just gradually change as they start to on their own. I'm not sure if that is training because we never really pushed or did anything (mostly out of pure convenience and laziness) but just moved to the next stage as it seemed appropriate, I don't feel like we did any training.

[HotI]

Honestly (and I am sure you don't want to hear this), I think I just lucked out

Actually i find it easier to cope with the idea that it is personality or genetics or luck rather than my dodgy parenting. Most of the time i am ok with what i am doing, and think the kids will get there in their own time and i can see the benefits, but just sometimes hearing of other similar aged kids sleeping habits or when some people (cough cough my mum) start giving me their opinion i start to question myself.

We have not done any sleep training at all, my husband slept with her every night ( from when I became pregnant with DD2 as I knew I wanted to sleep with DD2 and we only have a double bed. We knew she would get there by herself in the end and she has.

oh yeah, DH took over alot of the night time stuff with DD at around 18 months. So she actually did need some help, but i wasn't doing it.

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

I don't think we ever really did any sleep training, we just went with the flow for both girls.
DD1 was the baby you could put in the basinette and she would talk for 5min then fall asleep, as she teethed and got older it became more apparent she wasn't as willing to sleep on her own.
Sometimes we had to just let her sook a little, other times she went to sleep straight away.

DD2 we figured from the start was different, she fed to sleep, had a horrible witching hour right around dinner time that required full attention from me or my boobs and would often be fed to sleep on my bed then moved into her cot.
That worked for us and she started to figure out her own 'routine' as such once she started crawling & walking - this was a big turning point in her entire attitude in general (as you've seen).

I think sometimes it's easy to tell ourselves we are doing something wrong but in the long run i think it's a combination of factors - the temperament of the child, the individual needs of the child and how we react to that.

I was a lot calmer the second time round and just figured this too shall pass... i think the girls now have similar sleep patterns BUT DD1 is sleeping in longer than she ever used to (albeit only 7am) so i am hoping that DD2 eventually catches onto this trend.

[buffy1]

Thanks for starting this thread Hotl. My DD is still little but am really struggling with her frequent night waking and trying to accept that maybe her personality (and my unrealistic expectations) has a fair bit to do with it. We've went to sleep school early on, which helped with settling techniques, but not much really changed.

Please keep sharing experiences everyone, so helpful to read.

[fionas]

My girls are very different. DD1 was sleeping through at six weeks and apart from those first weeks I've never got up during the night to her.

DD2 is still waking up through the night and she was 2 in July.

Very different personalities and very different activity levels (see sig). DD2 finds it really difficult to switch off her brain.

[loulabelle]

I have done no sleep training. I've lay down with all my kids to get then to sleep. Ds1 has slept through from 13 months and started going to sleep by himself around 3. Dd is completely different. She went to sleep by herself from around 6 months but still wakes up now at 3.5. She's had other issues though with multiple lots of grommets, tonsils and adenoids out etc and this has worked against her. Ds2 is 7 months and will sometimes go to sleep on his own but doesn't sleep through. I wouldn't expect him to sleep through at this stage even if I was sleep training though. So, I think all kids are different.

[k4t]

Thanks for this thread. I've found it really reassuring. DD is 10 weeks and breastfed to sleep (co-sleeping) at night and day sleeps in a sling/carrier/wrap or on my lap. Hearing your experiences has really reassured me that I don't need to stress about changing things while they're working so well for us. I'd like DD to be able to have one sleep a day in the cot but there's no rush. She wakes up to several times overnight for now but it's so easy to feed her back to sleep I don't mind at all.

[LysnDan]

I haven't done sleep training with my DD and shes slept through from 7pm until 6.30 to 7am. She has the odd wake up early some days, but none usually before 5am.

[Liz]

No sleep training here, not even gentle methods (altho I guess it was our own gentle methods?) So far DS and DD1 learned to stay in bed and go to sleep around the age of 2? (OMG.. I'm forgetting already!!) and slept through the night consistently around 2 1/2 for DS and just over 3 for DD. We've parented to sleep until they were ready, and we have really good 'bed-goers' and sleepers now. I'm holding on to that as I deal with DD2 now and her constant waking for feeds through the night.

As a side note, we co-sleep, and around the age of 15 months we've started them in their own big bed, and they would come in to us after their first waking. We seem to have had natural progressions from self-settling as little babies, to needing help from around 7/8 mths (the girls anyway.. DS fed to sleep for 2 years LOL) which was rocking or cuddling, to sitting with them on the bed and feeding/cuddling to sleep. Then eventually they were old enough to be praised excitedly for staying in bed while mummy went to the loo (or whatever) and they've been great at staying in bed ever since. No real issues here, just took patience

Now to get the third big bed so DD2 can start off in her own bed and start the process all over again! haha.

[chippyrabbit]

It's not your parenting, otherwise how come all those crappy parents out there have kids that sleep through? lol
You know i went through the same thing with my DD and i think honestly sometimes mums are just sooo tired from not having decent sleep that we stress over everything. Your DD is sleeping through now so maybe just think when it's getting rough that you only have to last another year or so and DS will be the same? Go with it rather than fight it, IYKWIM?
Also next time people cough cough tell you you are doing it wrong, tell them that they are more than welcome to come and stay and help you try and work out a better routine, you know they won't do it so then at least that will shut them up for awhile!

[MrsFabuloso]

It helps me to think that it is natural for them to want to be with you. It is what babies need, to be with an adult all the time. There are lots of articles about it being genetics and children's natural urges to be close to an adult in case of emergencies and/or needing to be on the move. (Ie, many moons ago, if there was a fire or some predatory animal was around or something like that, then a baby/young child's best chance of survival is to be with an adult). It really makes sense to me.

[Lenny]

but just sometimes hearing of other similar aged kids sleeping habits or when some people (cough cough my mum) start giving me their opinion i start to question myself.

My SIL happily told us all how their son (who is a teeny bit younger than my DS2) slept like a fairytale. I stayed with them and their son woke up and cried and was left. Sometimes what people say isn't exactly what goes on in reality.