Anyone used any careers services for returning to work?

[wysiwyg]

Yesterday I read something in the Progress Leader magazine about Job Seekers week at a recruitment place - now I thought well I am seeking a job maybe I should go along, it was on the way home from daycare drop off so I popped in - well yesterday was Parents day so missed the main one that may have been of value but spoke to woman on the desk anyway. It turns out it was for 'Job Seekers' as in people are registered with Centrelink and people were referred there by Centrelink but she said I could stay and listen anyway. (Is it just me and being English that I didn't realise 'Job Seekers' meant people registered with Centrelink?) I couldn't really get an answer about whether I should be registering from Centrelink - are there benefits or disadvantages to registering as a Job Seeker if you don't qualify for any financial assistance (from the brief look I have had, DH would earn enough that I wouldn't be eligible for anything in monetary terms - which is fare enough).

The presentation I saw this morning made me really depressed - and also confused, previous career stuff I have been to when got made redundant for example suggested you shouldn't just take any job but should make sure it fits with your overall plan - but this morning seemed to be saying the opposite but I think when you have childcare to take into consideration is different anyway (is there a point in taking a job that costs you more in childcare than you earn if it doesn't benefit your career long term). I don't know if the picture for mums wanting to return to part -time work is as depressing as was made out or if maybe there target audience today was a bit different to my situation (lots of talk about long-term unemployed, psychological issues for long term breaks from work, lack of qualifications etc).

Anyway has anyone used any careers services they really recommend? There seems to be various stuff about but I am a little wary because have not had great experiences in the past at people really understanding my career area.

I have masters degree in Information Managment and worked in IT supporting SAP systems in Logistics area, and have never been out of work apart from having children. I only want to go back part-time 3 full days a week, which is my real issue. I am looking for somewhere where can get advice to make sure that whatever I do for the next few years till DS starts school will be the best use of time to give me decent employment options for full time work for then. I was the main income earner, but we could borrow some money to make do on DH's wage for a bit but not really sure what is the best course of action e.g. Maybe I should suck it up and go back to work full time (I did before DS but hated it so went down to 3 days) and hope that from there I can negotiate down to part time (I really loathe to do this - but maybe is my only option to stay in current area of work?)

(I have only been looking for work for 6 weeks and I know average is 3 months, but most recruitment agents are not interested in part-time so really my only prospects for looking is by using existing networks of contacts which is what have been doing so far - because of childcare I don't feel I can just go on indefinitely looking for work, because if I am not working I would far rather be looking after the kids but can't wait till I get a job as then wouldn't get childcare. At the moment DH and I have put a limit on 'looking' till end of Feb)

All ideas, experiences, suggestions welcome.

[Dollyroux]

As far as registering as a Job Seeker, I think it would be useless - the only advantage is that allows you to use the Job network agencies to find positions and the sort of positions you are after aren't advertised through those agencies - so don't worry about that. Though registering is easy and relatively pain free I don't think it will provide any use in your case! Hope you find work soon .

[HotI]

As an educated person looking for a professional position, i found the employment agencies pretty useless. I got minor assistance with my CV and cover letters but could have done without them.

When looking for part time work, i still applied for many full time positions, and then enquired as to possibility of part time work at interview or at follow up.

I was offered 2 positions just from doing letter and cv drops. Not what i wanted for long term jobs, but they worked for interim jobs (i was pregnant and wanted work and couldn't be too picky).

good luck

[wysiwyg]

As an educated person looking for a professional position, i found the employment agencies pretty useless. I got minor assistance with my CV and cover letters but could have done without them.

I suspected as much - and have had relatively recent CV and cover letter assistance as part of my redundancy package

When looking for part time work, i still applied for many full time positions, and then enquired as to possibility of part time work at interview or at follow up

Were any of these through recruitment agents - did you just not tell them you were only after part-time? I suppose one of my worries is the SAP world is really small and I would be concerned about wasting peoples time if they won't even consider part-time - and it is how to get past the recruiter really I might be able to convince an employer but not recruitment agent. In the beginning I was getting several calls a day, then word gets round you are only after part-time and it stops. Most of the jobs are contract based, so agent wants to know your daily rate etc etc and so it would be kind of hard not to mention part-time only. Working from home is fairly common and I can see how you could mention that later, but not so sure about part-time (there is no way I could work from home and look after the kids though so is not an option I am after).

Other problem is SAP (at least logistics part) is only really used by big companies, big companies have preferred suppliers which are normally recruitment agencies - but maybe there are some related areas letter drop could work - will have to think about that one.

[Astrid]

Also found the employment agencies not much use. All they could do is help me with my resume, which I did not need at all. They had the same jobs that I could search for online.

Part-time is hard. The one independent recruitment agency I spoke to (and had to speak to direct at they don't advertise they only go off their own books), made a big thing of understanding part-time and the restrictions of childcare, blah blah. Well have not heard from them in 2 years. I think it is a matter of really keeping an eye on the job ads and job sites, along with cold calling.

[wysiwyg]

Any experience with services more the career coaching side? Sort of maybe more about what is best for your career path in the long-term rather than helping you find a job so much - helping you work out what is the best option/path to move down?

Part-time sucks - at the moment (if they were old enough) I would be telling my kids particularly my daughter that if they want kids and to be able to be home with them at least part time to think carefully about chosen career path - and go into something with a plan in mind as to how would deal with their early years of life - because my 'winging' it approach does not appear to offer me what I want.

[Astrid]

I think having a plan helps. If I was to do it all again, I would either have moved to a smaller accounting firm close to home rather than sticking in Corporate accounting in the CBD. Would have given me more flexibility with work (well I hope). Either that or I would have spent a year or two striking out with my own bookkeeping business. I started that after DD1 was born, which really was too late, I needed the client base and the work for myself skills before babies.

[fionas]

I was in the same boat (sort of). Professional seeking part-time work. Unfortunately my old workplace wouldn't allow me to work my former job part-time - even by doing a job share with my maternity leave replacement (who subsequently had a baby and wanted to return part-time at the time I did).

I ended up taking a redundancy package, kept my eye out for part-time jobs in my industry but really there wasn't anything, at least not advertised. So now I'm studying with the view to doing a career change - which may be the stupidest idea I've ever had given the fact that I'll be 45 competing against 22 year olds for jobs.

Anyway, that is by the by. My experience did make me consider setting up a website so that parents wanting part-time work could potentially hook up with other parents with the view to doing a job share and then applying as a joint package. Australia may not be ready for that however.

I'm not sure what I'd do in your shoes. I think taking a full-time job and then trying to negotiate down to part-time after you've wowed them by your performance may honestly be the most effective. Yes, it feels all kinds of deceptive but really, if you can do the job part-time, you're actually saving them money.

[wysiwyg]

Anyway, that is by the by. My experience did make me consider setting up a website so that parents wanting part-time work could potentially hook up with other parents with the view to doing a job share and then applying as a joint package. Australia may not be ready for that however.

That is a great idea, it is such a waste to the economy really, also I think there needs to be some sort of advocate group for part time - convincing employers about the benefits - the talk this morning started off interesting talking about reverse marketing - so the agency builds up relationships with companies and then markets the candidates to them (not against specific jobs)- however they also pointed out that really this only works with smallish companies because large corporations have their own HR departments and like to do things there own set way - in my field that is through recruitment agents who really just want as much money as possible and that is related to wage so therefore get less for a part-time. Also not all jobs require an everyday presence, some do and job sharing is a good solution - others have a set amount of work that needs doing and it can't always be equal to whole number FTE's. I know from experience sometimes you need 1.6 FTE's for a task.

I wonder if other countries do this better?

Someone was on about a productivity commission study into child care fees, but really I think that is only one barrier to returning to work, so really should be looking at it more holistically. It really is a complete waste that people have to retrain to re-enter the workforce (I got my residency in Australia due to my skill set being on the special skills required list, yet apparently those skills are only useful if can do them five days a week - I am quite prepared to work equivalent to five days a week but only 3 days in the office in office hours - considering the amount of work that is required out of office hours due to working with other countries - in many roles I would have thought this is an ideal situation)

I'm not sure what I'd do in your shoes. I think taking a full-time job and then trying to negotiate down to part-time after you've wowed them by your performance may honestly be the most effective. Yes, it feels all kinds of deceptive but really, if you can do the job part-time, you're actually saving them money.

I fear you might be right, I am so loathe to do that though because (stamps foot) it shouldn't have to be like that - that is how my last contract worked, but then I didn't think I would have an issue with full-time and DH was part-time - I had the attitude that lots of dads work full time (mums to) and hardly see their kids all week so why shouldn't I be able to - surely DH and I were reversible in our roles in the family - but I just hated it, so knowing I would hate it again makes it harder. Two children in full-time childcare we would hit the rebate limits as well so childcare costs would go up substantially.

I think if I knew that the jobs were definitely going to be around in 2017 then the above would definitely be the right way to go - but my added worry is that so many of these jobs are going to India/Asia - or require significant travel, would I be better getting ahead of the game and spending this time changing my skill set a little to negate this fact. I think it will go in a cycle and we will hit a point where these jobs come back onshore but it is debatable whether that will be as soon as 2017 or may be much further in the future. If only I had a crystal ball!

[anney]

Wysiwyg, it really is a waste to the economy. So many well educated, skilled people take any old part time jOb just because it is part time while their may still be a skill shortage in their area of expertise. I also work in IT and went back to work part time after having one child. If we had a second child I am not sure what we would have done but here I am 10 years later in the same part time job. Don't get me wrong, I know I am lucky but I would like to change jobs and nothing is advertised as part time and if I ring to ask , they always so no it is full time.
However I know in my workplace they find it difficult to recruit the right skill set and the work does fluctuate so it seems more sensible to have a good 3 day a week employee who is happy to up there hours when it is required, than have a skilled person who is bored 2 days a week as there is not enough work for them!! ( the girl who sits next to me at work is exactly like that!)
I think you need to get to interview with the actual company and if interview going well bring up work flexibility and if you get a favourable answer, talk about the hours you really want. Getting to interview will help clarify for you what is really out there and how things might look in 2017. Good luck.

[Nai]

It is a pain and ridiculously short sighted of employers to rule out part time workers. Just a couple of thoughts, this side of Christmas there are traditionally very few roles going as companies tend to start recruitment again around the end of January so there may be a lull in the job market at the moment.

Also do a massive look through Seek and the like and see if there are any other roles that you may be qualified for that don't necessarily fall within your current search. There may be something that is slightly left of centre that you can do for a year or so.

I would also look directly at sites like the state government and federal government websites as they advertise separately to Seek and can be more flexible. Also check out Ethical jobs and Infoxchange for community sector roles which also tend not to be advertised on Seek and are often more flexible as well.

[wysiwyg]

Thanks for the replies and the websites I hadn't heard of them - I had had a look at Government ones last time and was ruled out of many by not a citizen but forgot I am shortly to become a citizen anyway. Seems like ACT is the place to be in my area - but there are a few in Mel too - and registers you can go on for temporary opportunities which I wouldn't rule out as could be a way in.

Understand is not a great time - one of the reasons I figure give myself till end of Feb - but speaking to old colleagues the market hasn't been great for a while.

I think I find it more frustrating because often it isn't the employers who rule out part-time is the recruitment agents. I know from when I have recruited my replacement a couple of times, you have to give them a job description (and more often than not that has to be in specific format according to HR rules) but everything on there is an ideal - but the recruitment consultant don't really have the skills or knowledge of the sector to do anything more than look for matching phrases on the CV and job description - whereas in reality you as the employer can tell far more about a person and would be willing to be flexible if you saw their skills - but CV's don't get presented to you like that. Some of the questions you get asked on the phone by recruiters are just ridiculous, how can you sell yourself to someone who doesn't really understand the position. Many times the candidate we have selected is the one who is actually the one regarded as weakest by the agency - but we have seen something else in them making them a good fit for the organisation. (Maybe the SAP world is different but an example is they rule you out because you have experience in say SAP 4.6 and client is looking for SAP ECC 5 but that is like ruling someone out because they know Word 97 not Word 98 - if you are a Word expert you can cope with a few slight differences - is the capacity to learn and the overal grasp of the software that is required, not being able to recall from memory which toolbar the Bold key is located on)

It is a reoccurring theme in my life that I am not very good at "playing the game" when I think the "game" is stupid - I need to get past that, I also need to learn to be more flexible with the truth - I can sell myself or an idea when it is something I whole heartedly believe in - but I am no good at being flexible with the truth at all (I used to get pulled of pre-sales work for being too honest). Have never not been offered a job have interviewed for - so I just need to learn how to "play the game" to get the interview I suppose - instead of getting angry about how the stupid game works :-)

Sometimes I think what is needed is a Current Affair or Today Tonight expose on it - you know dramatic music - sterotypical pictures of people with degrees doing stereotypically low paid jobs with $ dollar signs flashing - that funny serious voice they use "Millions wasted because people not given a fair go" - "Someone should do something" etc etc. :-).

As a slight aside - I read the other day about someone in the UK who is trying to advertise nature to kids in the way consumer items are - after noticing the affect advertising has - maybe part-time workers need their own marketing/ad campaign - maybe I will suggest it to Gruen Planet as a topic for one of their create an advert competitions.

Thanks for listening :-)