Do you use an "H" harness with your booster?

**OceanPrincess** · May 5th, 2014, 01:58 PM

Did you know that VicRoads recommends you don't? If your car has a lap-sash seatbelt, the one that goes from shoulder to opposite hip, with a lap belt as well, then they recommend not using any sort of additional child safety harness.

Are child safety harnesses recommended?
No. A child safety harness is difficult to use and fit correctly and is commonly misused. Incorrect use of the child safety harness can cause the seatbelt to ride up into the child's stomach area, which may cause injury or death to a child in a crash.

Do not use a child safety harness where a lap-sash seatbelt is available. Research recommends using a child safety harness only in situations where it is not possible to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt.

If you are not able to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt you will need to use a child safety harness with a booster seat. In this case, it is recommended to use a booster seat with an anti-submarining feature to hold the lap part of the seatbelt down low on the child’s hips.

From VicRoads - Child Safety Harnesses

We've currently got them on DD's Boston Hipod. Think I might be removing them...

**CoNNiE_Melb** · May 5th, 2014, 02:07 PM

I read that a while ago and removed it. It was always a PIA to get on and off him each time, so I didn't need too much convincing.

**~clover~** · May 5th, 2014, 02:09 PM

I did use one when DS was younger. I agree, I hated using it, but thought it the best option. Glad they make seats for older kids now with the 5 point harness.

**MummyNaomi** · May 5th, 2014, 09:09 PM

Hmmm, we do, for both kids, the lap seatbelt bit does ride up a bit too, will have a look tomorrow to see where they sit on the kids

**feeb** · May 5th, 2014, 09:31 PM

Used for DS1 until he was 5. DS2 has been in a booster since he was 4 and a bit with H harness but lots of fiddling to sit right on him as he doesn't seem to be as broad across shoulders as DS1 was at same age so if not right slides if shoulders.

**wysiwyg** · May 5th, 2014, 10:29 PM

I have been looking at car seats all day and now I am totally and completely confused. If they have a convertible booster can they stay in the harness? Or once their shoulders hit the top of the change to booster marker is it safest to move them to the lap-sash belt. Or is it a combination of this plus a weight rating? If you have to move them once they hit the booster marker it seems odd to have such a young child in a lap sash belt only (DS is almost at the middle of the change to booster marker in DD's seat and isn't 3 yet).

**wysiwyg** · May 5th, 2014, 10:36 PM

double post

**Lenny** · May 6th, 2014, 07:32 AM

They can't go into a lap sash belt until they are 4. (Disclaimer - I can't find out where I got this info from, and the rules change so often).

While they still fit, safest to keep them in the 5 point harness.

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 08:26 AM

I think is no wonder people are confused - it is all very confusing.

Have weight limits now been totally got rid of? E.g. Can a child stay in a convertible booster if the harness fits and are above 4 and over the change to booster line - e.g. is the change to booster line a guideline or does it mean that once past that they are safer in the booster + lap-sash belt? I am thinking of DD here - is 5 this month about 24kg and 113 cm. Do different pure boosters have different weight ratings or is it irrelevant - e.g. - she is fairly heavy so if I do get a pure booster do I need to get one with the highest weight rating so lasts the longest?

**Miss.September** · May 6th, 2014, 08:33 AM

They can't go into a lap sash belt until they are 4. (Disclaimer - I can't find out where I got this info from, and the rules change so often).

While they still fit, safest to keep them in the 5 point harness.

I agree.

We have DD1 still in her car seat with the harness, hasn't been changed to a booster. She's on average for height and weight for her age (5). It still sits properly on her. We had her in a booster with the normal seatbelt while we were away recently and the seatbelt didn't fit properly. Cut across her neck terribly. If the VicRoads thing is a recommendation, I reckon it will be a case by case scenario depending on the size of your child.

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 08:50 AM

I think I have actually confused myself and possibly others following the thread - so I am just reposting the whole bit from VicRoads - the crucial bit I had missed first time about it only being about the non in-built harnesses

A child safety harness is NOT an inbuilt harness: it is an additional product to purchase.

A child safety harness is attached to a child restraint anchorage point and is sometimes used with a booster seat or lap-only seatbelt.

Are child safety harnesses recommended?
No. A child safety harness is difficult to use and fit correctly and is commonly misused. Incorrect use of the child safety harness can cause the seatbelt to ride up into the child's stomach area, which may cause injury or death to a child in a crash.

Do not use a child safety harness where a lap-sash seatbelt is available. Research recommends using a child safety harness only in situations where it is not possible to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt.

If you are not able to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt you will need to use a child safety harness with a booster seat. In this case, it is recommended to use a booster seat with an anti-submarining feature to hold the lap part of the seatbelt down low on the child’s hips. Examples of anti-submarining features are displayed below.

If you must use a child safety harness, ensure that the shoulder straps are not too tight and that the lap part of the seatbelt is very low across the thighs, otherwise it may ride up into the child’s stomach area. This may cause serious injury or death to a child in a crash.

The harness must be checked for correct fit every time it is used.

**~TT40~** · May 6th, 2014, 09:32 AM

There are 5 things to look at to see if your child is big enough to fit in a lap slash, irregardless of age etc.. (Good things to look for when going from a 5pt harness to lap slash in a booster, or to moving out of a booster.)
They are:
1. Lap part actually sits on their lap
2. Slash bit goes across their torso and shoulder (doesn't cut into their neck)
3. Their knees reach the edge of the seat, so they bed naturally
4. Their back is against the vehicle seat.
5. They will sit still and remain in the seatbelt for the trip (not get out)

If they don't pass, keep them in a 5 point harness

**feeb** · May 6th, 2014, 09:34 AM

I changed DS2 to booster as he was over 18kg and the maxirider said over 18kg could no longer use 5 point harnesss.

**~clover~** · May 6th, 2014, 09:49 AM

I'll be keeping dd in the 5 point harness as long as I can. She'll be 4 in October, but is quite small, so I should be able to pull it off for longer.

It was only a few years ago my 3/4 year old was sitting on the seat with just a lap sash belt & now I'm trying to keep dd in her booster til she's 10!

**~ Zarava Flutterby ~** · May 6th, 2014, 11:27 AM

I've just put a post on the Britax page - we have the maxi-riders for both the girls and both are above 18kg - I just assumed while they were within the height of the 5 point harness that that would be the safest option... Oops.
I think we might be swapping them to the lap sash - I wont be buying the H Harness as I had also heard (and thanks for the reminder) that it was safer to just use the lap sash only with these boosters.

**black_rose** · May 6th, 2014, 11:34 AM

Both my girls where in them after outgrowing their 5 point harnesses, they would escape a normal seatbelt too easily. With ds the new boosters with higher shoulder slots for the 5 point harness he is still in it at almost 4, he should still be in it for a while as he still has one more slot to go much prefer that to the H harness.

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 11:52 AM

Both my girls where in them after outgrowing their 5 point harnesses, they would escape a normal seatbelt too easily. With ds the new boosters with higher shoulder slots for the 5 point harness he is still in it at almost 4, he should still be in it for a while as he still has one more slot to go much prefer that to the H harness.

This is the bit I don't understand at all - nearly all convertible boosters I have seen have harness slots higher than the change to booster mark - but when I asked Infasecure this was the reply

Me: Thanks, can you clear something up on the convertible booster is the change to booster just a guide or does it mean that once past the range of that mark you should definitely be changing to booster mode (irrelevant of age/weight).
2 hrs · Like

InfaSecure Hey Victoria! The marker is a guide, but we do recommend that it's followed. Our convertible booster 'change to booster' markers have gone up, recently, however, and are now at 45cm. Hope that helps!

So what does that really mean - which is safer? (I suspect their answer would be buy a new convertible booster with the 45cm marker!). Also do I need to ask all the manufacturers for each individual seat the same question. Surely it should say somewhere what the 'change to booster' really means?

It would be great if there was a site you could put your little ones age, weight and height dimensions into and be given a range of seats and including how long you could use each. They say weight is not important now, but still many of the seats are only tested within certain weight ranges so surely can not be entirely discounted?

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 12:33 PM

I've just put a post on the Britax page - we have the maxi-riders for both the girls and both are above 18kg - I just assumed while they were within the height of the 5 point harness that that would be the safest option... Oops.
I think we might be swapping them to the lap sash - I wont be buying the H Harness as I had also heard (and thanks for the reminder) that it was safer to just use the lap sash only with these boosters.

I wish had never looked into this - looking at Britax reply on your FB - I am loosing faith in any of the info out there. Infasecure have stopped selling their harness due to the VicRoads guidelines - but Britax seem to still be promoting their Protecta Harness - unless their is something special about theirs?