Oh Gawd, back to waking 1.5 hourly!!!!!

[jackrose]

I am really loosing it now.

Up till 5 months DD was an awesome sleeper. Fully breastfed and part co-sleeping, she woke for feeds calmly and self settled like a champion.

Then something changed and she began to wake more frequently, up till the worst of it where she woke half hourly at about 6-7 months.

We have been working on it and it has been a loooong painful process. I had her up to waking every 4 hours again last month, but now, slowly but surely, it has been getting worse and worse again.

Now we are back to every 1.5 hours waking up for a feed.

I can't handle it for much longer. Nothing I have tried is working. She has lost the ability to settle now and I am loosing it. I just don't know what to do now.

I don't know if there is a solution, I just really need to get this out of my system.

[Michelle71]

First question - how old is your little one?? They often become unsettled and wake more with developmental changes and growth spurts. Some wake more frequently with teething. We recently has a week of hourly wake ups due to teeth but we are now back again to 3-4 hours between a drink and quickly resettling back to sleep.

It does get better but it really does hurt at the time

[jackrose]

Its now 4am and at present she is waking every 20 MINUTES!!!

I didn't believe it could get any worse.

In answer to your question Michelle71 DD is 9.5 mo now. I know it is often a developmental stage thing, but last time we hit the hourly waking thing it was not a developmental stage snag, it was her here to stay sleep/feed pattern until I did some drastic intervention.

To be honest, I haven't got that in me anymore. Not after 4 months of this appauling unsettled sleep.

[Spring Angel]

Oh you poor thing. I really feel for you, lack of sleep can make you loose your mind.

My DS would go through similar stages but it would usually coincide eith either teeth erupting or just before he came down with a sickness. Is there anyone you can get to help you out for a few hours so you get get a bit of uninterrupted sleep?

It sounds as if she is having difficulty self-settling and is stiring in the first part of the sleep cycle. Do you co-sleep? At around about 5 months when DS was waking constantly I started co-sleeping and it worked really well because I could help settle him before he fully awoke.

Perhaps you could just start from the beginning and help her re-learn how to settle. Go in and watch her, as she seems to be rousing (so about the 15 min mark) sing to her, pat her bottom, stoke her hair (whatever you do to help her) and hopefully she will not fully wake. As the days go on, reduce the amount you do to help her fall to sleep and hoepfully she will learn that she can fall back to sleep without mumma having to help.


It really is tough being that tired. I remember it all to well and I hope you get some sleep soon.

HTH
Spring

[jackrose]

Hey, thanks Spring Angel.

Practical advice is really appreciated, and your advice about starting from the beginning is an approach I have not thought of.

:Is there anyone you can get to help you out for a few hours so you get get a bit of uninterrupted sleep?

Unfortunately I am out of options on that front. I am trying to grab a nap when she goes down during the day but so far that has been difficult as she is only sleeping for short periods and that is componding the night issues for both of us.

It sounds as if she is having difficulty self-settling and is stiring in the first part of the sleep cycle. Do you co-sleep?

This I fear is exactly what seems to be going on. She is waking and unable to resettle every sleep cycle. Unfortunately, co-sleeping was one of the original things which set this whole pattern into motion. we co-slept up until 2 months ago, which was really successful in the earlier days as we both slept really well but then by 6 months, DD got so used to bfeeding all night that that is exactly what she did. She would feed, fall asleep on the breast, wake up 20 min later realising the breast was not in her mouth any more, cry and fuss to get it back and then kick and squirm for 15 more min as she fed and then repeat the whole cycle all night. I was exhausted and physically unable to cope with the kicking and fussing so we religiously put her back to her own bed after a feed which slowly but surely worked. Now I sometimes co-sleep from 5am if she wakes for a feed again then and can't be resettled and it is still the same problem of wriggling.

I am going to try to give your suggestions a go tonight as they do make sense, thanks.

: It really is tough being that tired. I remember it all to well and I hope you get some sleep soon

Thanks for the empathy and suppport.

[bubNo.2]

I might be right of the mark here but could it be she isnt getting enough milk from you as she is 9.5 mths old and she is hungry re the wakfulness. (as adults it really hard to stay asleep when we are hungry so it would be the same for the wee little ones). Try formula and a bottle at night it may be the answer .... the formula may be thicker and making her feel full for longer re longer sleeps. I take it she is well and truly on solid food so maybe a huge dinner of mashed potatoe cheese and egg mashed all together and a bottle of formula just may do the trick.
Cheers Ainsley

[Ezz]

I feel your pain. DS is also waking very frequently overnight.

We are getting rid of the wrap to see if that helps. Does she have some sort of comfort thing in bed (a soft teddy, dummy, etc?). DS strokes his "snuggle bear" which seems to help him settle.

[*dee]

Hi there,

hope you've had some improvement since you last posted - sleep deprivation is so hard, and you've hard such a long run of it too. We had one really bad month, when the nighttime sleep cycles kicked in around 4 months, and our DD didn't know how to settle herself after waking at each cycle, so we had 10-15 wake-ups each night, and she needed us to settle her for each one. What worked for us was a technique in which you talk them into a calm state, and then let them learn to put themselves to sleep. It sounds too easy, but its worked so well, even with our very highly strung one! At no point do you leave them to cry - if they get upset you get them up and comfort them using whatever works for you - rocking, feeding etc - but they always go back into bed sleepy but awake. You repeat this process of talking to them (and getting them up to comfort if upset) each time they wake at night, (unless they're hungry, in which case feed them). It took us a little while to find what worked - if we made her laugh as soon as we put her down this stopped her getting upset then we could use more soft rhythmic talking afterwards, but now she doesn't get upset at all - she seems happy to go to bed! But it has cut our nighttime wakeups from 10-15 down to two on a bad night (even with teething). We had 6 wakeups the first night we did it, and were regularly on one (for a feed) after one week. I think it works so well because you're actually setting up positive associations about going to bed. The book is called 'The Lull-A-Baby Sleep Plan' and is written by a Canadian paediatrician, Dr Cathryn Tobin. Apparently the ideal time to do this is between 2 and 9 months (she has similar techniques for older babies), but it might still work for you?

Hope things work out and you get some sleep soon - let us know how you go, and good luck!

[jackrose]

Thanks again ladies for your replies and support.

hope you've had some improvement since you last posted

Improvements? some, but then right back to where we were again more recently

I did have a bit of a breakdown a week ago after such a long time with broken sleep and a wingy little girl for a few days. My DH finally stepped up to the plate and worked on settling DD for a few days which made a difference. Without me going in to settle her there was no temptation for the breast. Unfortunately, he has been back at work at night for a few days and again, we are heading back to square 1 which means more frequent wakings....

I might be right of the mark here but could it be she isnt getting enough milk from you as she is 9.5 mths old and she is hungry re the wakfulness. (as adults it really hard to stay asleep when we are hungry so it would be the same for the wee little ones). Try formula and a bottle at night it may be the answer .... the formula may be thicker and making her feel full for longer re longer sleeps. I take it she is well and truly on solid food so maybe a huge dinner of mashed potatoe cheese and egg mashed all together and a bottle of formula just may do the trick.

Ainsley, thanks for your input, it is helpful to look at this from different perspectives. DD is happily eating solids and pretty stable in her bfs generally, and I am not really keen to use formula as I don't want to reduce my milk supply. My understanding of bfing is that there is no real reason to believe that DD should not be getting enough milk from me as she is still gaining weight properly and does not appear to be any more hungry than usual. I actually don't think it is hunger that is waking her as she randomly goes for long periods without a feed. From the way she is behaving now, waking, crying for the breast, sucking for sometimes only 2/3 mins and then back to sleep again, I really think it is just a bad case of breast/sleep association.
BTW: I have heard a few different opinions about the theory of feeding a big meal before bed.... some people have said feed them up in the evening to help them sleep through and others have said don't give them solids in the evening so their digestive systems don't have to work and potentially keep them awake at night...??? Not sure what makes sense here.?!??! Any opinions?

What worked for us was a technique in which you talk them into a calm state, and then let them learn to put themselves to sleep. It sounds too easy, but its worked so well, even with our very highly strung one! At no point do you leave them to cry - if they get upset you get them up and comfort them using whatever works for you - rocking, feeding etc - but they always go back into bed sleepy but awake.

Dee, thanks for the advice and reference. I wish I had come across that when we first came across this sleeping problem and when I still had the energy to pursue a solution!! I have tried your suggestions but she is just so against sleeping when we try to put her down. It involves tears, sitting/standing up, and ramps up to a feverish distress so quickly now. Every time I pick her up she is fine, its when I put her back down, hysteria starts again. I am still at the end of my tether with this whole settling, I really need a night or two of good sleep to feel able to approach it all again. After working on fixing this for over 3 months, I have now broken my original resolve of working this out myself and have booked into a sleep school. As much as I would like to do this my way, I am not able to be the mother I want to be during the day as I am just so tired and frustrated.

[Rahjah]

Oh you poor thing. I have an 8.5 mth old and could almost have written your post word for word! It's NUTS. And some days I get a nap and cope well and other days I feel like I'm barely living. I never BF to sleep but thought it was a co sleeping issue. Recently I went to an ABA group and the women there suggested that I BF DS up through the day - as in every 1.5 hours or when you think of it. And after a few days, they thought he should be sleeping better. I thought "yeah whatever' but anything is worth a go...
and it really worked for us! Actually, from the first night he only woke once rather than a dozen times. But they had warned it could take a few days. (Well it worked until he got sick. Now it's anyone's guess).

Anyhow who knows, but it's worth a try. Definitely, don't switch to formula in the hope of longer sleep! There are so many reasons why that one is a myth (sorry to the pp) - but especially because your milk supply is important if you want to keep BF.

Having said all that, it does sound a lot like separation distress rather than food related. And I have no clue what to do there...because it's driving me nuts myself. I hope you're going ok though and will follow the posts to see if I can pick up some advice too GBH

PS Do you have Elizabeth Pantley's "No cry sleep solution" book? She has some advice for the weaning off the breast/sleep association.