Help, help, help... 8 month old all over the place with sleep and i am going crazy!!

[ttcin2007]

Hi,

I havent been on here for ages but i am at a total loss and would love some help. I have a beautiful 8 month old little girl who is not sleeping well. She was born small, but everything went fine for the first 4 months, we even had here sleeping 12hour nights for 2 of those months, then it all went down hill. She lost weight and didnt thrive for awhile which was scary and obviously sleep patterns went out the window. That is all resolved now and she is a healthy weight. But upuntil 2 weeks ago she was feeding 2 to 3 hourly daily and 2 hourly overnight, which was driving me insane from exhaustion (husband works long hours and i am by myself all day on our farm). So i tried everything, even had a referal in for Torrens House with CYHN. Nothing was working so i went to my pead who i trust and love. He is of the opinion (which i know most of you will hate) to go cold turkey after 6 months. So i did as he said took dummy away, stopped wrapping and gave her a nice bath bed time routine etc shut the door and came back after 12 hours. After 3 nights of crying we had it going pretty well and now she does sleep through the night (apart from the odd night where she cries a little but puts herself back to sleep). So i should be happy but...... every nap day or night she cries for up to 45mins. I find it so upsetting and just dont know what to do. I have left a message for my pead, but he probably wont have time till reply till next week. What can i do? I hate for her to cry but i dont want to undo the work we have done, as yes it is better, but previously i never let her cry so i HATE for her to be crying so much. I have a friend who is going through much worse as her child doesnt sleep at all, so i feel bad complaining but i honestly feel like i am loosing it and cant cope. Has anyone tried cold turkey or has any advice in general. Thanks everyone.

[Jac]

What settling methods are you using during the 45 min crying? Your little one obviously needs a little help getting themselves to sleep. I found, at that age, turning bubs to face away from me (on their side) and firmly patting hip/bottom area until bubs was quiet was useful. I would go in and start again if he started crying again. Unforntunately, there is no 'easy' answer when they are crying. It's hard to leave them to cry (I still wouldn't do that with my almost 2 year old - they are crying because they need you) and it's tiring to stand there and settle them but it must be done to gently help them to nod off. If you don't like the crying then you need to be settling your baby to sleep. It won't necessarily mean she will keep waking up, especially if your settle her in her cot. It's so hard though isn't it?
By the way, I think it's absurd to suggest shutting the door on a baby/child for 12 hours in order to get them to sleep (but many paeds will tell you to do this). There are other effective methods, they just require more time and effort!

[ttcin2007]

Thanks for the reply Jac. Trust me i have tried all the other ways. Even had CYH on the phone about 10 times one night as i tried the shhhh technique they suggest and it just seems like nothing works. That is a good idea to turn bella on her side away from me and pat. If i go back to that i will def try that one. I am just feeling like i dont have the energy to do it any more, i just dont know what to do and loosing all my confidence with mothering now.

[Jac]

I found the turning on side and firm patting to be really soothing for bubs. I would hold him like that for a little bit once quiet then turn him onto his back again before leaving. I agree that its such hard work but keep in mind that they are only little for such a short time really, so in retrospect it won't feel like you were worring about sleep issues for that long (even though it feels like forever at the moment). Also, if you are following your gut instinct and not what some Dr is telling you to do then your mothering skills will be just perfect for your bubs. Trust yourself. Let us know how you get on.

[Charlyfrog]

tbh I don't think you'll undo any work you've done this may seem left field, but will she settle if you just relax yourself in pillows or a comfy chair and just let her lay on you?

I must admit with DD#1 there'd be no way in the world I would've done that for fear of creating bad habits.....I have since learnt that this is not necessarily the case as I have done this with DD#2 every now and then in her short little life and all I have reaped is a cuddly snuggly bundle of cuteness who now goes to bed at 7pm, natters to herself for 10-15minutes and then sleeps through til approx 7am-ish, with maybe a few occasional oopsies of getting tangled in her sleep (monkey ) I'm not saying this will work but I'm wondering if taking a step back and forgetting about what the experts suggest may be worth a shot? Again, I went with experts first time and more instinct (with a pinch of expert) the second time and I much preferred and enjoyed the second time more. Even if she does stir when you pop her down, a little cry/whinge for a couple of minutes isn't a bad thing but maybe she just needs calming first?

I don't know if this is at all helpful but thought I'd share just in case

[Junglemum]

I just wanted to say if you have a look at all the sleep issue threads, most of them occur at 7 or 8 months. ( Was a bad time for us!) It seems to be an unsettled time for little-uns.
The best thing for both of you is for you not to be too upset or distressed about it all. I know if i am uptight my DD never settles well.
There are some great books out there to help you feel confident with your choices. The science of parenting is fantastic. Highly recommend it.
Best of luck and don't forget the new baby mantra ............."this too shall pass"

[ubba82]

Babies are very smart little things and it doesn't take them long to work out that 'if I cry, mum will come back and if I cry louder she will pick me up'. Children also have "short" memory spans. I cant remember the exact figures but dependant on their age, after a certain amount of minutes crying they forget what they are crying about and just keep going for the hell of it.


With my first, I always went into her every time she cried and like you I was exhausted. After a while I realised every time I went in she would stop crying and start smiling and cooing. When ever she cried after that I would stand outside her door and gently say "Mummy is here, go nigh nighs" and walk away. After that I let her cry a bit longer and eventually left her to put herself back to sleep. This process took about 1 month and she would cry for 5-10 mins and off she would go.
With my second, I went strait to the controlled crying method and it worked a treat. Mind you, with both my kids this was after 6 months of age as I believe a child younger than this still needs to be picked up and cuddled, after 6 months they just need to hear your voice - to know you are still there. Also I never let my kids cry hysterically.

Sorry for going on and on, hope it is some help.

[queenbee]

I couldn't do CC but each family is different. I held my DD at every sleep from 4.5months until 9.5months. She co-slept with us from birth until 9.5months. She then went in a toddler bed (never liked the cot). I just took every day as it came and slept with her when I needed to, whether it be in bed together through the day or on the lounge. She slept with us every night. Some don't like co-sleeping etc but it worked with us. I stressed too about the sleep thing, always puzzled as to why she cried so much, until I held her every time and she stopped. Then at 9.5months, she would go to sleep on me and I put her in the toddler bed. Never looked back, she has all sleeps there and never did CC. She seems to settle reasonably well, sometimes she needs some help but not much at all.

Ooooh hugs to you. I know how you feel. It is so hard when they can't tell you what is wrong.

Do you have any issues sleeping with her all the time?

[Macca79]

My DS has recently gone from the odd sleep through or one bottle a night back to 3 bottles a night and often wakes up to chat to himself. I tried pretty much everything (bar cc) and in the end just accepted that he wasn't going to change. I know this doesn't help but in going with it so to speak I have found that these things often come in cycles and for DS usually happen around the time of growth or major change.

[jackrose]

Hi,

I hope you have found some help from the replies you have received already. I second much of the advice here.

My experience was very very much like yours, a beautiful DD who went from being a really settled baby and a great self settler to a terrible sleeper right around the 8 month mark. I became exhausted, a mess and began to seriously self-doubt my parenting. Even when I made some progress, the mere sound of her unsettling and crying in bed made me fall apart all over again. So stressful.

I tried a variety of methods of settling for about a month with no luck and was at my wits end, and eventually went to a sleep school. It was a fantastic experience, really supportive (I try to be an attached parent as much as possible and the sleep school definitely did not challenge my wishes) and I came away armed with new techniques and new found confidence.

My new approach was very similar to what ubba82 described (excellent advice!) We would put DD to bed and use a cue word or phrase like "shhh, sleepy time bubba" and then leave the room. We try to avoid overstimulating at this point, the idea is to give DD all the cues and help she needs to wind down and self settle. If she began to cry, we would go back in, avoid eye contact, repeat the sleep cue and pat her on the bottom until she calmed down. If she calmed, we left the room again to try to allow her to settle herself to sleep. If she got overly upset we left the room anyway for a brief bit and then re-entered and went through the calming process again. If she got upset again after we left the room... back to the process again. etc. This allowed DD time to settle herself but not to the point of letting her get too upset or hysterical. If DD stood up at anytime in her cot, we would simply lay her down again, avoid eye-contact, give the comforting cue phrase etc. Pretty soon, DD got the hang of it and would lay down as soon as we entered the room!

The point of all of this was to let DD know that we were there for her, never would we let her cry without comforting her, but that she needed to go to sleep when she was placed in her cot. The avoidance of eye contact was to make sure that we were making the bedtime settling the most boring we could possibly make it... ie: it wasn't time for play or interaction, it was time for sleep.

We used the same process for day naps and for any wakings in the night.

Incredibly, by following this process to the letter and remaining calm, DD's sleeping and settling began to improve right away, and she figured out how to settle herself on her own within a few days. It was SUCH a relief.

<mind you, she got a cold soon after and her sleeping fell apart again. When she was better, we were back to square one, or worse than square one in some ways! I was at a loss again so called a helpline for advice. They suggested to go back to the original plan so we started the process again and very very quickly, DD was back to sleeping like a baby.>

The most important thing about this is that you need to be there for your DD as she learns to sleep. that means going back to bed after you settle her makes it really really painful when you have to get up again to settle! I found it best to get out of bed when she woke in the middle of the night, go in and settle her, put the kettle on, make a cup of tea, go online, watch tv... whatever it took, and continue going in to her as needed. If I watched the clock, I went insane. If I went back to bed, the sound of her crying and the need to get out of bed again drove me insane. If I was up, it was easy to commit to the process.

Once I had these tools, I felt a sense of control over the situation and I knew I was doing the best for my DD. And as I mentioned, she responded really quickly and really well.

I wish you all the best, it is such a traumatic thing to suffer sleep deprivation and to have your child distressed. At 8 months your DD is at a perfect age to learn to self settle to sleep. I am more than happy to give you more details if you wish, please let me know.

[luey]

Hun

Do whatever works for you. Although a paed may have suggested it and it may have been working a bit you need to be comfortable with it. stressing yourself out like this isn't good. Talk to your CHN and maybe get a referral again. I know CYH don't reccommend leaving them to cry at all anymore, but I have told you this and you know that. You need to find a happy medium that works for you. You feeling stressed and unhappy and the whole 'not coping' saga is not good. You need to call your friend and have a good chat to her

Watch Bella's tired signs too. The suggested 'awake time' is 2.5-3hours. But E is sometimes tired after 2. Trying to get the window exactly right is hard.

I don't have it worse than you, just different. No one is the same and everyone is living and fighting their own battles. Just becuase you may think I have it 'worse' than you doesn't mean I don't want to hear your problems/worries. I am sorry if you feel that you can't tell me stuff or I make it a competition, it's not and I don't mean to. And E does sleep. Just not much and as often as i would like. We are on the wait list for Torrens House. YAY.

I am such a super sleuth

[ttcin2007]

Thanks everyone for all these replies. I am so touched that you have all taken the time to respond. I know where you are all coming from and that is the kind of approach i feel i should do but..........still thinking. I just want the best for my Bella and feel i have tried it all before. But perhaps i wasnt giving it 100%. It has really helped and i am going to print this page out as you have all come up with great suggestions and they are variations on other things i have tried so i can slot them in to my routine. I think i will hold out tomorrow to see if the pead gets back to me and then reassess.

Luey so funny i was reading your post and i got half way through and thought, gee i feel like i know this person. Then you mentioned E and calling my friend and i put it all together, smart aren't i . I know i can speak to you sweetie, but you do have it worse and i feel like a silly billy to complain. You dont make it a competition wash your mouth out . I am just so distressed that my wonder plan seems to be slipping through my fingers and like we have talked about what happens when nothing works???? Had a big chat with DH tonight. Although he is never home he always knows exactly what to say so i am a little happier. Great news to be on the wait list. I will ring you tomorrow arvo.

Thanks again everyone and fingers crossed all our bubs give us a good nights sleep.

[jackrose]

Watch Bella's tired signs too. The suggested 'awake time' is 2.5-3hours. But E is sometimes tired after 2. Trying to get the window exactly right is hard.

Good advice Luey!

I had forgotten about this bit of advice. It was part of the advice I got at the sleep school.

It is really important to get your DD to bed as soon as you see tired signs throughout the day, even if you don't think she is tired. It is amazing how much of a difference overall sleeping will be if your DD gets more naps through the day.

Tired signs include things like

• yawning
• rubbing eyes
• grizzling
• becoming clumsy, falling over or becoming uncoordinated
• needing interaction all of a sudden when previously playing happily alone
• grabbing at fabric as a comforter
• sucking thumb

I don't want this to sound flippant and easy, I know that it can be very challenging, and I am sorry to go on and on here... its just that I remember how DESPERATE I felt a few months ago and I hope you can find a solution. I am pleased to see that you do appear to be positive about the situation now.

Other great advice from Luey

Do whatever works for you.

[thepixie]

My DD was such a great self-settler and just in the last two weeks we have had problems getting her to sleep. I think a couple of times I have let her cry too long (a few minutes without picking her up because I was beside myself or in the other room) and she lost confidence in me and started getting upset as soon as I put her down. I have just started to use a new method.... I put a chair at the end of her hammock, take in a book for myself to read and put her down in the hammock. I don't rock it too much because I think we were overstimulating her with rocking. So I lay her down and if she cries I put a hand on her stomach and say 'shhh honey it's sleepytime' or something like that. if she continues to get more upset I pick her up and comfort her and when she is calm I lay her down again. I keep going until she is completely asleep. The first time it took an hour, last night only fifteen minutes and I've only been doing it a couple of days. I think it made a difference that internally I was committed. I just wasn't leaving till she was asleep. Having a book to read also means that I'm not impatient for her to go to sleep, I can wait. Also I find I'm reading and look up and conk - she's out. It's time consuming but a lot less stressful because you're not leaving her to cry - when she cries you comfort her.
Don't know if this will help you but good luck!

[ttcin2007]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for your advice. I thought i would pop on here to give an update for you all. Well the pead never returned my call, suprise, suprise so i have had to adapt a few different methods to make it work for us.

I have decided to always keep the door open so i can sneak up on her and make sure she is safe in her cot (horrible experience last week where she looked very uncomfy and i think was stuck).
She has now learned to sit up in the cot and then cries because she cant get down again (without hitting her head on the rails on the way) so i will go in and just lay her down again and say nights.
Day time sleeps if she is crying for a long period i just get her up, play with her more and wait till we see tired signs again before putting her to sleep.

So by doing all this we are getting there, her sleep isnt perfect but not too bad and i am more relaxed.

Once again thanks everyone for your advice and stories. I hope those with sleep issues are finding solutions and like everyone on here keeps telling me you have to do what you feel comfortable with and i think that is the key (has only taken me 8 1/2 months to work that out)

Cheers