Disgusted at way strangers talk to their babies !

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On another note: Shopping centres are geared for adults. Even to the point where they design displays to entice children so that the accompanying adults fork out money to pay for the merchandise. It IS an adult world, because especially in a retail environment, the children are not the ones with credit cards or EFTPOS access.

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Which is why we should all relax a bit and remember that little kids are impulsive little people that quite often have no sense of reason. They need to learn from experience and by not taking them to places they won't learn boundaries or when to accept no for an answer.

I have spoken badly to and threatened a tantruming 5yo in a supermarket when reasoning and soothing didn't work. I have dumped a trolley full of groceries dragged him out to the car as well as carry a tiny baby over my shoulder and also trying to coax his little brother to follow me and gone home. It was harrowing and it took me months to get the guts to take all 3 boys out to the shops again!

We all have trying times, and yes only seeing a snippet of someones day could lead you to draw the wrong conclusion about someone as a parent in general.
Maybe instead of getting all defensive and taking things personally we could instead perhaps take it on board and remember to try and talk a little nicer to out kids ;)

IK, I made a completely sane, sensible point but you just don't seem to be able to understand where I'm coming from. I doubt there is any point explaining it to you.

oh ohhh i have taken my kids to a uni library cos i couldn't get care for them, a 2 year old who breastfed the whole time we were studying and a 5 year old that sat and copied out the periodic table of elements;)
i agree that australia could be more child friendly and baby's should be allowed anywhere with their mother - actually i think they are.
beckles

Yep, I'm another who has had to take her DD to uni... however I was very confident that she wouldn't distract other students. Some times you just have no choice and I agree beckles, children should be allowed, if there is no other option, to be any place that their mother is allowed. Unfortunately there are also some parents who lack basic consideration for others... those that for example, wouldn't care if their child disrupted other students studying at a uni library... it's so hard apply blanket rules when there are so many scenarios.... anyhow... that was a bit off topic... ATM I am fortunate to have my children at stages where they are generally very well behaved in public... but it hasn't always been so... public tantrums are so very very very hard to deal with... I don't judge parents stuck in that predicament! However you can also kinda tell when a parent probably has a bit of a mean streak.... sad but true... not all parents have their children's best interests at heart :(

*blush* Melbo, sincere apologies - I don't usually snap, let alone on BB, and I've had a couple of weeks of a series of events that have been getting me fired up and then almost defeated...I let my fingers type before I could check myself. I don't usually resort to sarcasm, either! These series of events have to do with my role as a woman in academic study and within the CFA. I've hit brick walls and been reduced to tears from my efforts to afford women more respect, consideration and empowerment. Whilst I still have misgivings about what you think about children in universities, my post served no constructive purpose but to 'let it out', and for that I really do apologise - it's not really like me to be unconstructive! (I left the house soon after and have been out all day, hence the lag between my first post and this one).
I wasn't advocating that we shouldn't take kids to shopping centres. My point about them being adult-oriented was to generate empathy for kids who become 'ratty' in that environment, so that we can understand part of the reason kids get that way. Understanding behaviour should help us to deal with it more sensitively than swearing at our children and ourselves acting as if we are being thwarted in our shopping endeavours!
Again, sorry to anyone I p!ssed off here - I stand by my opinions, just not by my snappy tone:redface:

Here's something that may help:

When I was at church last week, DS woke just as we were leaving and wanted a feed, so started to cry. An elderly couple going in for the next service just smiled at me and the gentleman said "isn't it wonderful to hear the sound of life?" I was so grateful to that couple as I was feeling bad that DS had to wait a few minutes for a feed and was making such a noise. It also helps that people tell me how good DS is in church when I know he's been complaining, snoring, burping and farting his way though - I think mothers are over-tuned in to their babies sometimes.

Anyway, just sharing this so when we start to snap out of embaressment, there's no one else bothered by our children as much as we are so it may help us stay calmer for longer.

Exactly, Ryn! That's what I meant about the pressure to have quiet children! Showing a bit of empathy to the next mummy who's got her hands full might just afford her some relief and she can go with the flow a bit better, instead of trying to push the proverbial uphill :)
ETA re: taking kids to traditionally no-kids areas - I have taken Oscar everywhere with me and surprised lots of childless people who expected him to cry and carry on. First of all, he is worn a lot, which normally results in quiter kids, and second of all, I demand breast-feed, so he doesn't have to howl while I get to somewhere to feed him. But, you know, we could have a very similar conversation about dogs...similar issues! I've also had comments from people as to how 'good' my dog is - duh, would I take him if he was going to be awful? I guess some people do, and that's where dogs get a bad rap, like Bathsheba said about 'ratty' kids.

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to the parents that never get frustrated with their child, always speak calmly and always discipline by explaing what when wrong, I would love to know how in the world you do it. And I don't want to hear from parents with babies who haven't reached the talking back stage, I want to hear from the parents with more than 1 child, and a child who is at least 4. seriously, I would love to know how you continually stay clam.

How do you remain calm when 1 child is lying on the floor in shops screaming because she didn't doesn't want to hold hands, baby is in stroller screaming cause he doesn't want to be left out, 6yo whinging that she wants some new toy and 4yo is constantly asking questions?????

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I agree hun, If I have to go shopping with all 6 then it takes twice as long because I not only have one tantrum, I'll have two, by different children.
I hate to admit it as well, but I am one of those mothers! I will tell my children to "Shut up", I will say to them, "Why are you being a little *****!" and I will also walk away if they refuse to follow me!Children can push you to the limit and there are times when you WILL let loose with a word or two, you are only human. The way I see it is,if they are playing up and you do say something to them, after you realise give them a hug.
But I dare anyone to be able to act perfectly with 6 children and walk normally around the shops without them wanting anything!

Exactly, Jess - of COURSE they'll want something! You would know now (between the alpacas and the 6 kids) that there is nothing more humbling, or educational, than large animals and kids! Horses have taught me about infinite patience and being thwarted!

I agree with Sammi-j
Children need to LEARN how to behave in different environments - this is part and parcel of socialising our children. If we DON'T take them to shopping centers, libraries, playgrounds, restaurants, etc., then they will NEVER learn the proper way to behave in the different places.
But in order to teach them how to behave in these places, we must endure the tantrums and misbehaviour that comes with learning how they can and cannot behave.
Though he is only 13 months old, DS is already testing the water - and it started MUCH earlier then this. One example - I went to put him in the pram and he threw a tantrum and arched his back. My FIL immediately offered to carry him... however, I immediately responded, telling FIL (nicely) that DS needed to sit in his pram, like it or not, or else EVERY time I put him in when he didn't want to go in, he would expect to be let out and carried. He still throws tantrums and arches his back when he doesn't want to go in the pram, but he knows that the fight is futile because I persist.
And Sammi - DH and I have already agreed that IF DS or any of our other children throw a whopping tantrum in the shops, we will abandon a shopping trolley and haul the child kicking and screaming out of the shop! I feel for you - knowing that you have done it already - and with three no less!

You know what i saw the other day in Big W... a dad was walkin in with his two sons and he was yelling, shut the F*** up will you, get the F*** over here, and could you be anymore F****ing annoying? i dont care if you are having a bad day, thats no way to talk to a child and the lauguge, no wonder why alot of kinds are out of control!

Lilprecious - I agree - kids have to get used to different situations if you are going to be in them often (like me and libraries, fire stations, university buildings). I mentioned that I have an aversion to shopping centres and that's why I don't go to them much. Hopefully, due to that infrequency, he'll find it a novelty when we go and will be in stunned silence! The other things we do will teach him other valuable life lessons - plenty of time for that. (Hmmm, if DS, as a young baby, ever arc'd up about being in the buggy, I'd take him out and carry him! I know I haven't 'spoiled' him :) )

I'm one of those annoying people who thinks some situations aren't kid friendly and I don't want them to be ;) Regardless of being a mother there are times where if I'm having some kid free time I want it to be kid free... yes I am understanding of other peoples kids but I guess I'm just an old grouch (just kidding!). But then I would do that for others too *shrugs*

I also have a thing about taking tired grumpy kids out... I won't do it. Its not fun for them, its not fun for me and its not fun for everyone else.

I think as a parent even though you can be understanding of other peoples situations and others can be understanding to you, but you can still be considerate too.

Please don't attack me for my opinions, for they are simply that and I'm not having a go at anyone ;)

*hugs*
Cailin

IK -
Just a clarification - I don't force DS to stay in the pram all the time! He is out and about much of the time but there are just certain situations when it is safe and better for him to be in the pram. Being a toddler and VERY independant... if he doesn't FEEL like getting in the pram he lets us know about it. I do insist that he get in the pram and stay there, but having said that, if, a few minutes later, he is still upset and just getting more agitated - I will take him out and try again later - it just all depends on the situation.
However, at 13 months of age, I refuse to let him run loose in the shopping center, and therefore, if he also won't let me carry him because he wants to walk, then the pram it is. I hope that clarifies the situation for you a bit more.
And Cailin - despite what I said earlier about needing to teach our children how to behave in certain situations, there are times when I too like to be somewhere without any children! And I'm in TOTAL agreement with you about taking kids out when they are tired - that is why my local Westfields is full of mums and bubs first thing in the morning - we are all trying to get errands done while the kids are happy and content!

Lilprecious, you don't need to clarify anything with me - you do your thing, I do mine (I'm my own kid's parent, and same with you). I wasn't criticising, you don't owe me any explanations. I hope we can continue to share our anecdotes here, though! What I was thinking, actually, re: the buggy thing, is that other parents must think I am spoiling DS. In fact, when he's in his carrier, I get told I'm spoiling him. So, if you're child is contented, you get criticised for spoiling, when your child is having a tanty then the child must also be spoiled (according to my colleague who has no kids!) - you can't win out in public! That's why you just gotta cut out the unimportant bits, and when it comes to our kids, the unimportant bits are other people's criticisms, or perceptions thereof. We'd be a lot more relaxed if we did that.
Maybe I'm just a rebel, but I do like to take my child and dog wherever I can get away with! They're really quite portable - at 5 months I was able to take DS to an entire evening session film at the cinema...he woke and fed and I didn't have to leave the cinema - I was pretty impressed with that. I'm sure that's one place lots of people prefer to be 'kid free', but I knew he was up for it, so I just did it in the absence of a rule contraindicating children! Maybe DS is just a poster boy and I got lucky. Who knows.

IK -
Definitely understand the not being able to win no matter what you do in public. I wore DS in a sling, then Baby Bjorn, then HAB for the first 6-8 months of his life and the comments I got from some were ridiculous. I would still wear him except that I'm pretty short and he is pretty heavy and the HAB sags after he has been in it for about 15 minutes and then it gets uncomfortable for both of us. I have been looking at and lusting after the Ergo as I think DS would like riding on my back, but I just can't justify buying ANOTHER carrier - I think DH would have an absolute fit!!

I told one of my 5mth twins that she was going to be put on Ebay if she didn't stop squealing whilst in line at the Post office on Monday. She was being terrible, throwing a tantrum at 5mths because she wanted me to pick her up. I was having none of it. People were laughing at me but I was laughing at all.

I have to say, Im a big believer in going places without kids as often as is possible, unless it's to a park or mothers group etc. I don't ever take kids out to dinner (young ones) and this is 60% because I want a break and 40% because I want baby in bed. don't go out to dinner much though!
Same with shops. Someone told me recently to do all my shopping at 8pm or 9pm once kids are in bed and DH home! Great idea,but Im usually in bed too!!
I really feel that the times I do get frustrated is when others are around and Im embarrassed. So as someone else said, it's more about worrying about the other people and it doesn't give me the headspace to be calm.
Saying all that, it is very very rare I have a problem out in public, (mainly because of timing, dummies, food etc for coco) but I so totally understand when I see other parents not coping. I often smile as if to say "thank god it's not only me"!!!!
Im not talking about abusive type parents, but to be honest, I haven't seen anyone like that. Im talking about run of the mill mums/dads who are exhausted and their kids are being pain in the butts!!
Also have to add, I have once or twice said to my babies mean things in a lovely sweet voice...and infact it is a way to release frustration. Of course they were tiny, didn't know what the words meant, but they sounded like a lullaby!!! I know my mothers group have done it and we all have a laugh (of relief I think, more than anything)!!