Pressure to get babies to sleep (IMO)

[Mum2boy]

Sorry this is going to be a bit long, but I am just putting my thoughts out there about what has been going on in the last nearly 10 months and wondering if anyone has an opinion about this also.

Cooper started to sleep through at 2 months (6pm-6am) and that stopped at 4 mths, when he started to wake up for the dummy 3 times in the night. Got rid of the dummy, then he started to wake up for 1 more breast feed in the night, and then it progressed to 2, and sometimes even 3! As most Mum who are sleep deprived and exhausted I was desperate to find a way to get him to sleep through the night.

So I had heard about how 'self settling/control comforting' had worked for people I know - to try and help the baby settle by themselves, but without letting them cry too much. So I gave that a try, and it worked for a day or 2. Then I called Tresillian and they told me about letting the baby cry for a few minutes, then going in and try to settle them, then leave, and if they cry again, let them cry a minute longer etc. (I was so adamant I wouldn't do this, but I was now getting headaches nearly every day, so I was getting desperate.) It broke my heart, and I hated every minute of it. This worked for about 5 days and then it went back to waking up a few times again in the night.

So many times I called Tresillian and another sleep school and was contemplating going there for help. I asked them whether it would make a difference if I was to put Cooper on formula (I wanted to continue b/feeding for maybe a year, but was happy to have at least done it for 7mths or so), but everyone from the helpline said that it sounded like this was more of a behavioural issue, rather than him being hungry. They said it was my decision about what I wanted to do, but they recommended to keep up what I had been doing. Most times I didn't let him cry too long, but there were a few times where I thought - 'no, he needs to learn to go to sleep', and I was left crying with exhaustion and frustration.

By 9 months, I decided that I was ready to stop breastfeeding and to go to formula, because I was happy with 9 mths, convinced that it wouldn't make a difference with his sleep anway.

Now, nearly 3 weeks later, Cooper goes to bed at 6pm, I wake him up for a bottle at 10pm, and (all except for maybe 3 nights) he has slept through until 6 or 7am since! If he wakes up, he is actually able to PUT HIMSELF BACK TO SLEEP.

As you can imagine, I was SO very happy to know that we can get some good sleep now.

But then I was left wondering...those times I had tried so desperately to get him to 'sleep through' the night, was he only waking because my little boy was hungry?! I think back to those nights where I have let him cry for 3 minutes, then 4 minutes etc, and he was doing it because he was hungry?!

It has made me wonder so many things:
1. If I had known that putting Cooper on formula would've made him sleep better, perhaps I wouldn't have been concerned that it was a behavioural problem, therefore could've relaxed knowing that this is what breastfed babies did? I could only compare with my friends babies, and they were all formula fed, and I was always wondering what was wrong with my baby and what was I doing wrong??
2. I have heard that formula is harder to digest, therefore can fill them for longer, and some babies can sleep better because of this. Then, if a mother choses to breastfeed, then is it perfectly normal for their babies to wake a few times in the night for a feed, and we have way too high expectation on our babies to sleep through, when they are only doing what nature had intended anyway?
3. How many mothers out there are told to do Control Crying, when their babies are simply crying because they are hungry?? And do they do c/c to get their breastfed babies to sleep better like some formula fed babies?

Whilst I am so happy to get sleep now (and now the headaches have gone), I am left wondering about those times when he was crying and I was trying to let him self settle, and thinking about that, I feel like a horrible mother.

I don't know if anyone out there has gone through the same thing, but I know that some babies still don't settle when they are put on formula anyway, but how are we to know when it is a behavioural issue? I told Tresillian in GREAT detail about what was happening with Cooper, but yet they still said it wasn't likely because he was hungry. I know it is very hard to predict these things over the phone, but I am left wondering how many other Mums are trying to get their babies to settle when they are simply just hungry.

Anyway, I have been wanting to get this off my chest, but I wanted to see how Cooper sleep went, and maybe it was only going to last again for a few days! But so far so good...

Any feedback/comments about this would be great.

[Mum2boy]

Sorry this is going to be a bit long, but I am just putting my thoughts out there about what has been going on in the last nearly 10 months and wondering if anyone has an opinion about this also.

Cooper started to sleep through at 2 months (6pm-6am) and that stopped at 4 mths, when he started to wake up for the dummy 3 times in the night. Got rid of the dummy, then he started to wake up for 1 more breast feed in the night, and then it progressed to 2, and sometimes even 3! As most Mum who are sleep deprived and exhausted I was desperate to find a way to get him to sleep through the night.

So I had heard about how 'self settling/control comforting' had worked for people I know - to try and help the baby settle by themselves, but without letting them cry too much. So I gave that a try, and it worked for a day or 2. Then I called Tresillian and they told me about letting the baby cry for a few minutes, then going in and try to settle them, then leave, and if they cry again, let them cry a minute longer etc. (I was so adamant I wouldn't do this, but I was now getting headaches nearly every day, so I was getting desperate.) It broke my heart, and I hated every minute of it. This worked for about 5 days and then it went back to waking up a few times again in the night.

So many times I called Tresillian and another sleep school and was contemplating going there for help. I asked them whether it would make a difference if I was to put Cooper on formula (I wanted to continue b/feeding for maybe a year, but was happy to have at least done it for 7mths or so), but everyone from the helpline said that it sounded like this was more of a behavioural issue, rather than him being hungry. They said it was my decision about what I wanted to do, but they recommended to keep up what I had been doing. Most times I didn't let him cry too long, but there were a few times where I thought - 'no, he needs to learn to go to sleep', and I was left crying with exhaustion and frustration.

By 9 months, I decided that I was ready to stop breastfeeding and to go to formula, because I was happy with 9 mths, convinced that it wouldn't make a difference with his sleep anway.

Now, nearly 3 weeks later, Cooper goes to bed at 6pm, I wake him up for a bottle at 10pm, and (all except for maybe 3 nights) he has slept through until 6 or 7am since! If he wakes up, he is actually able to PUT HIMSELF BACK TO SLEEP.

As you can imagine, I was SO very happy to know that we can get some good sleep now.

But then I was left wondering...those times I had tried so desperately to get him to 'sleep through' the night, was he only waking because my little boy was hungry?! I think back to those nights where I have let him cry for 3 minutes, then 4 minutes etc, and he was doing it because he was hungry?!

It has made me wonder so many things:
1. If I had known that putting Cooper on formula would've made him sleep better, perhaps I wouldn't have been concerned that it was a behavioural problem, therefore could've relaxed knowing that this is what breastfed babies did? I could only compare with my friends babies, and they were all formula fed, and I was always wondering what was wrong with my baby and what was I doing wrong??
2. I have heard that formula is harder to digest, therefore can fill them for longer, and some babies can sleep better because of this. Then, if a mother choses to breastfeed, then is it perfectly normal for their babies to wake a few times in the night for a feed, and we have way too high expectation on our babies to sleep through, when they are only doing what nature had intended anyway?
3. How many mothers out there are told to do Control Crying, when their babies are simply crying because they are hungry?? And do they do c/c to get their breastfed babies to sleep better like some formula fed babies?

Whilst I am so happy to get sleep now (and now the headaches have gone), I am left wondering about those times when he was crying and I was trying to let him self settle, and thinking about that, I feel like a horrible mother.

I don't know if anyone out there has gone through the same thing, but I know that some babies still don't settle when they are put on formula anyway, but how are we to know when it is a behavioural issue? I told Tresillian in GREAT detail about what was happening with Cooper, but yet they still said it wasn't likely because he was hungry. I know it is very hard to predict these things over the phone, but I am left wondering how many other Mums are trying to get their babies to settle when they are simply just hungry.

Anyway, I have been wanting to get this off my chest, but I wanted to see how Cooper sleep went, and maybe it was only going to last again for a few days! But so far so good...

Any feedback/comments about this would be great.

[2CheekyMonkeys]

hmm... i would like to test the theory out but my stubborn DD will not take formula at all!! so i am resigned toher never sleeping through the night and being attached to my body forever!!!!!!!!!!!

[Roryrory]

Can't post long - am at work - but Flynnie has always woken up thru the night. He was BF to 9 months when I got pg with Little One and I have noticed no difference in his wakings with him on formula. I am convinced sometimes he's hungry, sometimes he's not. Personally i never expected him to "sleep thru" while BF because of what you said about BM digesting quicker than formula, and I think that women do put too high an expectation on "sleeping" thru. Yeah, it can suck when your babe won't sleep and you are exhausted - but I thinkI would have had a harder time if I actually felt like I could "do better" and get him to sleep longer. Sometimes I think the expectation you put on yourself as a mum can make you feel worse than you otherwise would IYKWIM?

[Liz]

but I thinkI would have had a harder time if I actually felt like I could "do better" and get him to sleep longer. Sometimes I think the expectation you put on yourself as a mum can make you feel worse than you otherwise would IYKWIM?

Completely agree. If i'd spent the last 14 months worrying about him not sleeping through... it would have been the most miserable 14 months. We just go with it, and have enjoyed it. Night time feeds are actually some of the loveliest, and I'm glad I've got to experience LOTS of them! hehe.

[christy]

I'm going to merge the two threads.

[Liz]

2. I have heard that formula is harder to digest, therefore can fill them for longer, and some babies can sleep better because of this. Then, if a mother choses to breastfeed, then is it perfectly normal for their babies to wake a few times in the night for a feed, and we have way too high expectation on our babies to sleep through, when they are only doing what nature had intended anyway?

I do believe we have too high an expectation on our babies to sleep through. People go around saying that babies should be sleeping through by 8 weeks, or at most 3 months. It's a load of rubbish. Many many babies don't sleep through for a couple of years (breastfed or formula) and it's completely normal! We still wake a couple of times a night. Actually very recently he's slept through from 10pm to maybe 7am, but that's only if he's in our bed, and he does wake and reach out to hold me and then goes back to sleep... doesn't always ask for a feed these days.

But don't beat yourself up over the times you let him cry a bit. We've had times where Tallon has carried on through the night, and I've just laid down with him and he cries for a while. Who knows what really is going through their little minds at night. All we can do is let them know we're there for them. They'll sleep through when they're ready, and it sounds like Cooper was ready to sleep through anyway

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I always feed DS when he wakes at night, but I have so much pressure from my family that I'm doing something wrong if he's not sleeping through. He can do 6-7 hours most nights and I'm happy with that. He has even done 6 hours in his own bed!

Nights where he just screams all night and won't feed are hard - won't sleep, won't feed, clean nappy, nice temp... but then we realised it was the Calpol that kept him up! There's always something to beat yourself up about, I'm sure the odd night of letting him cry isn't too bad - I have left Liebling crying in his crib when I need the loo, babies don't know about that though so everyone does it whether they mean to ornot.

I was actually expecting no sleep whatsoever for about 3 months when I first had DS, so the fact he sleeps at night, waking only for a feed, is great!

[Astrid]

I felt the same pressure early on, the whole sleep issue dominated everything. I was almost constant in my search for a solution. I had my ups and downs, at any time though DD was not sleeping according to some "experts" ideals, she still does not "sleep through" all the time, but at least now she goes down much easier at night.

Some here will know that I really tried and struggled to set-up a working night-time ritual, I was fine with feeding to sleep, I just need it to happen with an hour, rather than taking hours. Little did I know then that nothing was going to work whilst I was ingesting certain additives, I was so concerned about caffeine that I ignored other sleep inhibitors such as colourings and preservatives. Now they have been reduced, things have improved and all that effort I put into sleep rituals is working.

I do feel very sad and angry at myself though for all that pain and struggles we went through for over a year. Before I even had a real chance to be a parent, a visiting MCHN, who whilst very supportive for breastfeeding, was not so supportive with sleep, gave me a list of sleep school numbers and told me to call in now (DD was less than 2 weeks old) and get an appointment. As far as I was aware I was just having a hell of a time breastfeeding, not having sleep problems. What a way to shatter a new parents confidence in themselves.

Most of the focus on sleep it seems is about how we should parent to a formula, rather than on the individuality of the child and their needs. Some need less sleep, some more sleep, some more food over night, some less additives, some just need to be close to a warm body.

[aussienic]

I think we spend too much time trying to make our babies sleep. My first son slept through on day 5 and we thought awesome.. He never slept through the night again till he was 3 years old. He was on formula by 3 months made no difference.. sounds bad but I won't count my 2nd child as he was on meds (for seizures) that made him sleepy so he always slept.. my 3rd son even though he had days and nights mixed up he was a pretty good sleeper... why... I relaxed and figured he would sleep when he would sleep. I didn't have the time or energy to spend hours trying to get him to sleep so if he was awake I got up with him and played on the computer or watched tv or I simply lay on the couch while he was in the swing , Eventually he worked it out and was sleeping pretty well after a few months.

I'm not saying every night was a dream.. Some nights I was so tired I wanted to tear my hair out. and after went on holidays (ds3 was 9 months) he started sleeping terribly and I fell into the bad habit of spending a lot of time trying to make him sleep. After a month I realised what I was doing and just relaxed. and it took another 2 months but he started sleeping through the night again..

So no it didn't solve the sleep issues but I didn't spend my waking hours stressing over when he would sleep next or how often he was going to wake up. ds3 was fully breastfed until a week ago.


sorry for the ramble

[Trillian]

Don't beat yourself up over it, it may not have been hunger that was waking him - it could have been any one of a number of things. It could just be a coincidence that now is the time he has chosen to start sleeping longer and not that he is on formula. Maybe it just 'clicked' with him on how to settle himself back to sleep.

it doesn't matter how they are fed, some babies just don't sleep or take ages to go to sleep and others are constant wakers.

And it does inadvertently become a competition to see whose baby sleept through the earliest, sleeps longest etc because it is the one thing we all desperately want.

[christy]

I have to say I'm still waiting for Matilda to sleep through the night regularly and she's almost 3!!! She still wants a bottle in the middle of the night if she wakes up... and I give it to her. Mainly because it cuts down the time she's up. She was FF from 5 months old so I didn't ever see improvement for her sleeping due to formula, in fact her sleeping got worse with formula and solids.

With Jovie the only time she's been really unsettled overnight is when I eat something she's intolerant too, or the first week on solids.

[Clarrie]

Sherie, you are spot on with it becoming a competition - and it drives me crazy.

I must have the luckiest mothers' group in the world, because every single baby (there are nine of us) with the exception of mine is sleeping through the night - or only waking once for a feed. At the last meeting I sat there while they commented on how lucky "we" were that we had summer babies because wouldn't it suck to be up in the middle of the night during winter? Imagine how that made me feel. It was like sitting around a bunch of rich people talking about how great it was that they made so much money, and wouldn't it suck to be poor. I came home from mothers' group feeling like I had a bad baby. And of course, that just creates a vicious cycle of then feeling like a bad mum because of course I love her to bits and here I am complaining about her, blah blah blah. Anyway, mothers' group is tomorrow and even though I love being able to get out and talk to other mums, I'm seriously considering not going because I don't want to be made to feel unlucky.

I am so bloody sick of the adjective "good" being used to describe babies who sleep through. It's everywhere - the press release of Princess Mary's baby described how good their baby was because she was sleeping through the night. The sunday paper section where people send in photos of their baby always mention that their good baby sleeps through the night. When friends and family ask about Bonnie's sleep, they always ask if she's been "good".

Perhaps I'm being sensitive (which is highly likely due to sleep deprivation) but I really resent the implication that my baby is bad because she wakes frequently throughout the night.

One of the reasons why I love this place is because it makes me feel that my baby is normal.

[~Kim~]

Sherie, you are spot on with it becoming a competition - and it drives me crazy.

I am so bloody sick of the adjective "good" being used to describe babies who sleep through. It's everywhere - the press release of Princess Mary's baby described how good their baby was because she was sleeping through the night. The sunday paper section where people send in photos of their baby always mention that their good baby sleeps through the night. When friends and family ask about Bonnie's sleep, they always ask if she's been "good".

Perhaps I'm being sensitive (which is highly likely due to sleep deprivation) but I really resent the implication that my baby is bad because she wakes frequently throughout the night.

One of the reasons why I love this place is because it makes me feel that my baby is normal.

Amen Clarrie, couldn't have said it better.

[Liz]

Maybe we need to think up some comebacks about why we wouldn't WANT them to sleep through. LOL.

I do remember reading somewhere that babies that wake a lot receive much more stimulation and advance quicker coz they're not just sleeping through their babyhood. LOL. Perhaps use that one? (makes me feel better anyhoo )

[lilprecious75]

Clarrie -
I too have a beautiful wonderful amazing little boy who just doesn't need/want/desire sleep and I am forever sleep deprived. He is now 15.5 months old, still waking through the night (anywhere from 4-6 times) and most of the other babies in my mothers group were sleeping through at earlier ages as well and I felt quite left out. I'm also one of only two of us (there are 12 in our group) who is still b/f as well so I feel a bit left out in that respect as well. I am still firmly keen to get him to the 2 yr mark and since he loves his boobie I figure we have a good chance of it.
To cope with the night waking I doze on the couch in the early evening, DH helps with the re-settling, I only give him one night feed now, we co-sleep for about half of the night, and if he wakes around 4am and won't settle back to sleep within 5-10 minutes then DH and DS sleep together in the spare room in an effort/attempt to let me get a little bit of sleep.
I hope and pray that DS will start sleeping through the night soon (I would like to get a little bit of sleep before we start TTC #2) but it will happen when it happens. What I get tired of is the people who say: "He will sleep through when..."
- you start solids
- when it gets cooler/warmer
- when he is in a cot
- when he is in his own room
- when he crawls/walks
etc, etc

by the way none of these things have helped!

So essentially I just wanted to offer my support and let you know that there are other sleep deprived mums out there who love their babies, despite the fact that they don't sleep! I think the best thing we could do for each other is just be there for support and a "cyber" shoulder to cry on!

[Bathsheba]

Excellent post Clarrie!

I've never had the expectation that my babies sleep through... if they do it's a bonus I've BF and used ABM (formula) and it makes no difference what so ever.

I think it's funny when some women see it as a competition too.

Also, we do a fair bit of co-sleeping here so I don't find myself in a badly sleep deprived state... sleeping/resting lightly with your baby next to you in bed is way preferable than being up and about IMO.... especially in winter.

Finally... just my opinion BTW, but I don't think it's natural for a very young baby to sleep 'through' all the time... I wish I knew for sure so I could use it as a 'comeback' to "so, is he sleeping through yet?"

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

People ask me if DS is good, then when I say he's perfect ask when he started sleeping through... he doesn't. He's still perfect!

My mum, on the other hand, knows DS is perfect. It's me that's doing it all wrong, she just doesn't understand how he's still waking up. She had me sleeping through at 8 weeks - her mum was really good with babies and had them sleeping through at 6 weeks. I'm just clearly bad with babies and a crap mother to my son.

Doesn't bother me so much now, I don't mind waking up twice at night, but I dislike being woken every couple of hours when he's not hungry and doesn't want a feed. I don't like 2am being playtime!