Ummmm no, I don't think I misinterpreted what you said in your post. You explicitly said that 'What time someone else chooses to send their child to bed, doesn't have the potential to kill my child' - please explain how we could have misunderstood that.
Not really. It's a parenting choice that has nothing to do with you (collective), like choosing what time your child goes to bed :dunno::
Just a question on this comment. Would you feel the same way if your child was one of the ones that immunisation had the potential to injure or kill? This is the case for some. Would you still immunise them then, for the good of everyone else? Everyone wants to protect their children. I really don't think anyone decides to not vax just on a whim one day. There are usually reasons based on family and medical history.:
Oh definitely! Please don't misunderstand I'm not disagreeing here, merely pointing out that all information changes. That's how everything moves forward - knowledge, techology, our entire existense! I'm sure we'll find out 10yrs from now that something we all use in daily life is detrimental to our health. It's bound to happen!:
Like some vaccines? ;):
(Tongue in cheek here!)
lol exactly ;):
All I was trying to say is that whether someone chooses to vaccinate their child or not should be based on research and examination. Maybe my view will change once our little one gets older, but I don't feel that choosing what time my child goes to bed needs the same kind of research or examination. I don't feel that decision has the same kinds of associated risks and shouldn't be used as a comparison, IYKWIM? Obviously it didn't come out that way and for that I apologise!
I usually stay away from this issue. I watched my sister battle whooping cough on and off for 15 months before she died. She had two emergency tracheotomies and spent most of her life in hospital. I found her dead in bed one September morning when I was five and a half. She suffocated to death.
My own DD is fully vaxed. I am fully vaxed. So, I guess I am pro vax.
However, what I dont understand is how nasty the argument gets so quickly around these things. Vaccination is not compulsory in this country. But the reality is most people have their children and/or themselves vaccinated against a variety of things. Honestly, this is unlikely to change.
So, if people want to vaccinate their children, let them. If they don't, so be it. Each of us has to live with the consequences of our actions.
I may be naive but I dont think the non-vaxxers will ever be anything but a minority (numberwise). Therefore, their choice not to vaccinate is not likely to have a huge bearing on whether my own daughter will become ill with a deadly disease.
So I guess what I am saying is play nice people. And be thankful we live in a country where we have a choice.
N2L that is what I was trying to say - well said.
Questioning is always good! Always!:
I think that this is an interesting part of the conversation, you need to appreciate that our society is changing rapidly and that were coming into the information age (excuse the cliches etc).
Part of the reason for my post is to try to bring people to the understanding that were living the dawn of an age where everyone controls information. 30 years ago when I slept in a cot, on my belly, stats about SIDS was tightly controlled, or worse not even collected and processed. We have the power now to ask our own questions we just have to decide if we believe the answers. That is why such a big song and dance is made about stats and papers and journals and placebos. It's not good enough to blame authority figures for deceiving us in 2011, we can only blame our own ignorance (I know that I can blame mine at least!!).
Never say never. Societies move in strange ways.:
Great original post! i agree with a PP, that we dont see much of this on BB. i see much more about non vaxing.
i also think you're clever in ur reasoning for not putting references. people choose to trust/not trust different sources.
anyway glad the debate (for lack of a better word) is back on track after the first page banged on about something so miniscule as a word u used. (had to skip past all that)
i vax because i believe that it is the right thing to do. i wouldnt let a dr jab my baby if i didnt think it was good for him.
funny, my father caught whooping cough from a non-vaxed child in FDC in our home (non-vaxed through admitted forgetfulness on the parent behalf, NOT a conscientious choice) - he'd had the boosters, and he still contracted it from her because he fell into the three high risk groups - former coal miner, former smoker, emphysema. immunisation status had nothing to do with it. months and months of him nearly dying every time he breathed too deeply cos he started coughing and couldn't catch another breath. months and months of delay in finding the cause - he was immunised, it wouldn't be whooping cough right? months and months of him not being able to be left alone because he was so unwell.:
i'd be interested to see genuine studies that take into account transmission of communicable diseases when all risk factors are taken into account, not just immunisation status.
ooh, and on the work front - how many bugs that are transmitted at work actually have vaccines available? the flu vax (for instance) is only going to be effective against certain strains of flu, there is no vax (in adults) against gastro type bugs. they don't tend to be (in the general population) deadly in the same way that WC, HIb etc are in children with immature immune systems
vax rates are at their highest (from what i can gather - i'm not up for research now) amongst the most vulnerable within our community - the young, the old, the known immunocompromised.
Well said :clap::
In life we have to weigh up the benefits and risks of Everything we do. And most or us actually take risks every day without even thinking about it. Nothing is guaranteed in life (except eventual death). All we can do is educate ouselves and make up our own minds on what we (personally) believe is right. I can definately see validity in some of the argument on both sides. And as Inertia said, either way, we're all just trying to protect our baby. I think it's very important to have equal discusions about each side of vaccinations, and I thank the OP for posting. This information is just as important as the official non vacc articles on this site. It's a bit one sided otherwise don't you think?
As for pertussis. I can definately see validity in focusing on adults having this vacc. Especially when it is usually adults who pass it on to newborns. And even though the vacc is not a 100% guarantee, it makes sense the better the herd immunity the fewer babies will contact it, am I right?
As for adults spreading disease amongst themselves. From personal experience I can say that i worked for a large co. in the city for years catching public transport (4 trains) daily so came into contact with potentially 1000's of people per day. And despite this, never have I been so sick in my adult life, as I have been in the last 2.5 years since my DD started daycare. Colds, flus, gastro, conjunctivitis, I've had it all several times. (and I am a hand washing sanitiser gel using freak BTW ;) and I'm still not being spared) And that proves to me that the spread of disease among young ones if definately much more prevelant than disease spreading amongst adults. So I'm not entirely certain whether I agree that focusing of vacc for adults for everyting as opposed to children would work? I dunno :dunno:
Absolutely.:
And I am not just thankful that I live in a country where I have the right to choose, but if I do choose to, the vaccines are actually avaliable.
I choose to vacc, and I believe that my reasons are why many choose to, simply because I am more scared of the disease than I am of the vaccine.
Definitely :thumbsup::
In my personal experience, we had more illness in the house when my children started pre-school and school. But when I went back to work after being home with the kids for 8 years I had a year full of illness, one thing after another. After the first year it improved to the point of maybe being sick once a year.:
Maybe the spread of illness at day care and school can be attributed to parents sending unwell children to day care? At day care where the sick child is then in close contact, for hours with other children who then catch it and the vicious cycle begins IYKWIM? As for me at work and being sick, maybe I was on the other end of the "day care syndrome" the parents who may have had the sick children, that they sent to day care because they had to work, then came to work where they came into contact with me. So not only are the kids exposed to extra germs and bugs at day care, but we cop it at work too and on it goes...Vaxed or not if you possibly can manage it, staying away from school, work and other public gatherings is going to go a long way to not spreading bugs. It's pretty obvious that the more children or people you are exposed to the more chance you have of catching or spreading an illness is.
This is very true but a very hard one to manage in todays society. The other issue is with most bugs, we're contageous before we show any symptoms so by the time a LO (or adult) stays home from daycare/school/work due to sickness, they've probably already passed it on :(:
Same. And so does my SIL but you're right that we're a minority.:
I am partially in this minority too. The importance of keeping herd immunity levels elevated certainly does have a bearing on why I choose to give my child a particular vaccine. It also is a big reason why I myself have had both pertussis and MMR boosters as an adult. Although my decision is based on a combination of both societal reasons and the fact that I personally feel that the benefits of a particular vacc outweigh the risks in most cases.: